On the change to Venari Heal

[--Aegis--MR9]

DE is running out of ideas and Warframe feels like a game with no direction. Developers dont play their own game, Scarlet Spear is a prime example. They dont even know what they made as a feature and what is an actual bug. DE most likely internally broken into many divisions that fails to communicate with each other. I am seriously concerned about the future of this game. 

[schilds]

What is disappointing is what this reveals about DE's honesty. Even if we accept the nerf (it's their game, and their free to balance it), and even if you gave them the benefit of the doubt on other changes (nerfs) that they have called "fixes", the usage here is clearly spin. A feature is quite clearly being retroactively labelled a bug, and the nerf labelled a fix. This casts quite a bit of doubt over other "fixes".

What's so hard about saying "we reviewed and changed our mind on how Venari's heal interacts with a variety of objects"?

Why be tricky about it?

Edited April 1, 2020 by schilds

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

Just one thing I'm wondering since I'm not in-game. Hopefully someone will clarify this grammar issue I have.

• In the patch notes it says "Venari's aura can't heal defense targets".
• The tip says "Venari can heal defense targets when marked"

As you'll probably guess, it's not the same thing at all from a grammatical standpoint. Anyone care to test if this whole reaction isn't just some misunderstanding?

---

To be clear, if this truly is a nerf I'm amazingly disgusted at DE's behaviour for it. Both for calling it a "fix" and because when I was writing a reply to the very first thread on this saying how much I found it shady the thread was deleted by the time I hit "submit".

Edited April 1, 2020 by (PS4)Hikuro-93

[(PSN)Pummelegance]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

Just like they fixed loot abilities interacting with each other after allowing it for years. Let's just say that DE isn't really aware of what is and is not intended since they apparently don't play the game enough to notice.

That's rude. They know when something isn't a bug, they just know if they lie and hide it in the least read portion of patch notes that less people will see it.

I don't get why this time is a big deal, they've been doing this to "bugs" for years. It didn't start with the staticor or loot frames.

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Pummelegance said:

That's rude. They know when something isn't a bug, they just know if they lie and hide it in the least read portion of patch notes that less people will see it.

I don't get why this time is a big deal, they've been doing this to "bugs" for years. It didn't start with the staticor or loot frames.

You don't get why players would get more and more annoyed at this kind of behavior from DE? 

[Uan91]

Get ready at the end of the operation for Rebecca to make an apology-post because they "fixed" what was intended for years.

Venari was ruining the limbo-only event. 

 

 

Also I'm picturing in my head the quote fanous Joker's film scene where Lotus says : YOU GET WHAT YOU * DESERVE, VENARI.

 

 

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Pummelegance said:

That's rude. They know when something isn't a bug, they just know if they lie and hide it in the least read portion of patch notes that less people will see it.

I don't get why this time is a big deal, they've been doing this to "bugs" for years. It didn't start with the staticor or loot frames.

I'll give you an example: 

Bethesda releases games. Games have bugs. Fans say "oh, it's just Bethesda being Bethesda." 

Bethesda releases more games. Games have more bugs. Fans say "oh, it's just Bethesda being Bethesda."

Bethesda releases more games. Games are far buggier than before. Fans say "fix your games!!!"

See how players escalated as Bethesda's behavior got worse and worse?

[--Aegis--MR9]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)Hikuro-93 said:

Just one thing I'm wondering since I'm not in-game. Hopefully someone will clarify this grammar issue I have.

• In the patch notes it says "Venari's aura can't heal defense targets".
• The tip says "Venari can heal defense targets when marked"

As you'll probably guess, it's not the same thing at all from a grammatical standpoint. Anyone care to test if this whole reaction isn't just some misunderstanding?

---

To be clear, if this truly is a nerf I'm amazingly disgusted at DE's behaviour for it. Both for calling it a "fix" and because when I was writing a reply to the very first thread on this saying how much I found it shady the thread was deleted by the time I hit "submit".

Its tested. Marking defense targets with Venari no longer heals them.

[Luciole77]

31 minutes ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

There's already a topic right here in general discussion, don't create a second one to have to same complaint, do it in the first one

More topics....more noises to DE....

[--Aegis--MR9]

23 minutes ago, schilds said:

What is disappointing is what this reveals about DE's honesty. Even if we accept the nerf (it's their game, and their free to balance it), and even if you gave them the benefit of the doubt on other changes (nerfs) that they have called "fixes", the usage here is clearly spin. A feature is quite clearly being retroactively labelled a bug, and the nerf labelled a fix. This casts quite a bit of doubt over other "fixes".

What's so hard about saying "we reviewed and changed our mind on how Venari's heal interacts with a variety of objects"?

Why be tricky about it?

Probably because they dont even remember the game they made 2 years ago.

Edited April 1, 2020 by --Aegis--MR9

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

3 minutes ago, --Aegis--MR9 said:

Its tested. Marking defense targets with Venari no longer heals them.

Ah I see. Thank you for clarifying that up!

[Tinklzs]

2 hours ago, wargthewarg said:

Why is letting it facetank through healing somehow worse than blocking the damage entirely as some frames can do?  

I mainly use khora on solo kuva survival and venari gave me peace of mind on keeping the kuva towers topped off on the occasional moment when an AOE attack hit it. Especially on Requiem Kuva Survival, when enemies are 70+, healing was vital (at least for me in some instances). What a shame that DE not only forgot this mechanic existed, but instead of "fixing" it properly, by either making OPlinks immune to it, they just nerf it 'across the board', which feels like a knee-jerk reaction to save face/their pride, since DE rarely admit their faults.

I hope DE reconsiders and find another alternative to this, without adding gimmicks or other tedious mechanics. Just make it immune for OPLinks and revert this nerf, because it's unwarranted and frankly uncalled for. No need to punish us for their incompetence/lack of foresight, I mean - they had 2 years to think of something.

[TheGrimCorsair]

And nothing of value is lost, the redux.

Seriously, Khora aleady has two excellent CC powers that are both very valuable in defense.

This nerf is a good fix for consistency sake.

[schilds]

8 minutes ago, --Aegis--MR9 said:

Probably because they dont even remember the game they made 2 years ago.

Then their default position and language with all changes that affect game play and mechanics should be that they are changes/rebalances following a review.

The word "fix" would be reserved for things that are unambiguously bugs.

Or just simply state what the change is without any labelling:

"Venari's heal will no longer work on defense objectives."

[--Aegis--MR9]

3 minutes ago, TheGrimCorsair said:

And nothing of value is lost, the redux.

Seriously, Khora aleady has two excellent CC powers that are both very valuable in defense.

This nerf is a good fix for consistency sake.

They can balance their game however they like. Its their game their decision to make it, its our time and our decision to spend it. But lebelling an obvious intended feature as bug is shady and that kinda behavior from a developer is not welcome.

Edited April 1, 2020 by --Aegis--MR9

[Zsword]

Well, with Oplinks it's pretty distinct that they follow a unique health system from other defense targets in many regards, due to the nature of the oplink and the support system.

That being said, removing healing of Defense objectives in general from Venari sets a really bad precedent on what makes some already 'only kinda okay' defense warframes, kinda okay at Defense. This doesn't even 'fix' anything, because Oplinks aren't very susceptible to attrition, it's pretty much 'your good until you hit the wave that one shots them' and then you go 'why no limbo?'

[(NSW)Edcaous]

2 minutes ago, Zsword said:

That being said, removing healing of Defense objectives in general from Venari sets a really bad precedent on what makes some already 'only kinda okay' defense warframes, kinda okay at Defense. This doesn't even 'fix' anything, because Oplinks aren't very susceptible to attrition, it's pretty much 'your good until you hit the wave that one shots them' and then you go 'why no limbo?'

Agreed, though most people will use Limbo anyways. I don't remember anyone bringing a Khora to a defense mission.

[--DSP--Jetstream]

Because they want you to use that "pay 75k to repair oplink button"

[ItsDaKoolaidDude]

27 minutes ago, TheGrimCorsair said:

And nothing of value is lost, the redux.

Seriously, Khora aleady has two excellent CC powers that are both very valuable in defense.

This nerf is a good fix for consistency sake.

Khora has never appeared in defense in all the times I've played in defense/excavation missions (except for people who use her in Hydron just to get MR exp, and Vodyanoi because she was pretty good at solo farming endo), thus that just ruins and defeats the point you're attempting to state.

Khora's Venari still has the bug that lets the cat stay in one place in healing mode, being a useless meatshield instead of being a useful healing meatshield

Once again, I've never seen or met a Khora in defense outside of Hydron/Vodyanoi.

And what consistency, other than removing a use for Khora in Defense/Excavation?

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

1 hour ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

There's already a topic right here in general discussion, don't create a second one to have to same complaint, do it in the first one

I mean, I'd be perfectly happy to see the forums completely over run with complaints about it. That seems to be about what it takes for anything to change these days.

1 hour ago, LSG501 said:

Venari's Heal and protect are pretty lacklustre to begin with and this was an incredibly niche usage scenario....so of course DE are going to remove it....

They always seem to take away the 'good stuff' quickly and leave the bad stuff for far to long. 

This. I hope they dont find out about vazarin.

[(PSN)SolarPhantom82]

3 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

that's kind of shady. they should at least explain why they decided to change that, or why they couldn't "fix" it earlier..

maybe if enough Khora mains club together and cause a ruckus they'll add it back? you usually have to be part of a pretty loud group to get noticed around here.

 

It's clearly because of the event. .  Can't have poeple getting their over priced stuff easyer

[--DSP--Jetstream]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

I mean, I'd be perfectly happy to see the forums completely over run with complaints about it. That seems to be about what it takes for anything to change these days.

This. I hope they dont find out about vazarin.

Vazarin didnt work on the oplink from what I try..both the dash and blast.

[Kaotyke]

3 minutes ago, --DSP--Jetstream said:

Vazarin didnt work on the oplink from what I try..both the dash and blast.

Never did. It was the first thing I tried to do.

[(PSN)SolarPhantom82]

As a khora mane thank you DE    you just saved me some PA money. . I will use this money to by a game the doesn't call nerfs,  fixers. ...and respects and time and resources I'v put in to it....  

[Fire2box]

I'd be fine if they were upfront about it and just say they want to nerf it because they feel it's too strong or nerf it for the duration of the event because it screws with their 75,000 credit healing drone. 

But outright lying saying it's a bug is why I'm more then happy to never financially support DE again and if it wasn't for me falling for obvious sunk cost fallacy I would be drowning in Monster Hunter World.