The Helminth: Dev Workshop

[Aldain]

40 minutes ago, ChaoticEdge said:

Do you think DE is making a wise chose or terrible chose?

A wise one, because people would react even more violently if they did it post launch.

People also would have pitched a fit if things like Roar weren't an option in the first place and DE launched it with just the most basic utility type moves people would be demanding that things like Roar be added instead.

People would be angry no matter what they do, and honestly if this causes said angry people to quit the game then frankly I don't give a damn.

Some people will never be satisfied, even if you give them what they want they will demand more, the very essence of greed.

[Voltage]

1 minute ago, (PS4)AtomicEyekon said:

Helminth system who is this for? not for new players right? Mr15 right?!

DE: Nope Mr8 players

I would argue Mastery Rank 15 is still new player territory. We have over 2 million Mastery in the game now and DE is gating this system behind a measly 160,000. If DE really wants this geared towards experienced players, it should have a heavy resource cost across every single gamemode simultaneously and be gated to atleast the halfway mark of MR 20.

[1st-1]

il y a 4 minutes, Sickle_Slayer a dit :

It's good that you're making these changes beforehand.

But we really will need the numbers for How these abilities are going to be changed/capped.

Otherwise you're having players spend time prepping and farming for hours on something that might not even be worth it because we don't know enough about it.

Mastery Rank (sidenote):

Kinda sad to see that it was lowered so low.... MR 8 takes no time at all to get to. I was looking forward to something that really felt like it was a reward meant for the players who have put time into the game

After all this time.. don't u get that DE don't care about veterans they just want to add stuff for "everybody", meaning low content easy to do even for a MR2 that just started so that they won't get frustrated for god know what reason..

and here i am.. wondering why all my old time mate & friends in warframe are all leaving the game..

[--Q--Trekk]

So MR8 is now considered a 'veteren'? 

And if you're going with the argument that MR is not a reflection of player status/capability, then why have a limit in the first place? 

This is such a joke. 

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

Just now, --Q--Trekk said:

So MR8 is now considered a 'veteren'? 

And if you're going with the argument that MR is not a reflection of player status/capability, then why have a limit in the first place? 

This is such a joke. 

They needed to give the Scarlet Spear MR0 veterans a reason to rank up. /s

[Y43E_Aqst]

Judging from MR requirements for frames and weapons, MR8 is NOT a "very experienced".

[Decinomic0n]

1 minute ago, Voltage said:

I would argue Mastery Rank 15 is still new player territory. We have over 2 million Mastery in the game now and DE is gating this system behind a measly 160,000. If DE really wants this geared towards experienced players, it should have a heavy resource cost across every single gamemode simultaneously and be gated to atleast the halfway mark of MR 20.

30/2 = 20???? 15 is fine, at 16 I have 1000 hours.

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

1 minute ago, Decinomic0n said:

30/2 = 20???? 15 is fine, at 16 I have 1000 hours.

Technically the halfway point of MR30 is between MR21 and MR22 in terms of mastery points.

[jss2a98aj]

I do not post on the forums often, but I am not enjoying the direction Warframe has been going. Weapon specific mods and unique weapons variations have been mostly ignored since the addition of riven mods. Kuva Litches were over-hyped, under-delivered, and a huge grind. I killed/converted over a hundred of them and the only litch cosmetic I have was given to my by a friend. Railjack is three planets filled with a single mission. It requires hundreds of runs to level intrinsics, even with quad affinity boost. Steel Path isn't challenging, just another drawn out grind. Now experienced means less than two weeks of casual play, and preemptive nerfs are done based on speculation? The only reason I was excited for it was because even the most mediocre Warframes would have a chance to shine.

Events like The Gradivus Dilemma, Cicero Crisis, Operation: Gate Crash, and even Specters of Liberty were awesome. Updates like Shadows Of The Dead, The Grustrag Three, and Valkyr Unleashed were great. I want to see more things like that, not rushed grind-fests.

I have spent thousands of hours playing Warframe, many of which I enjoyed. I want reasons to play, but I am seeing fewer with each update.

[Aryo_Griever]

Making some abilities weaker versions while others are the same ones just because the others are terrible is dumb. At the end of the day it doesn't matter because the reason people are willing to pick the ones you nerfed is because some frames don't even have 1 skill to use. 

 

You guys just derailed the hype for the system with these changes. 

[ElKrafT0]

7 hours ago, Voltage said:

Lol. Make it 20 or something. 15 was too low. What happened to this system being for the more progressed players?

Mastery Rank 8 is only ~7.39% of the current game's Mastery. That's a joke.

+1

[Nox_Terminus]

So you tease a system for 'high level' players who have already gotten through most of the content, many of which already have builds that blast through content like a pressure hose through rice paper. So your choice to 'balance' this system is to gut the options that are actually good, and not address that many of the other options are mediocre and definitely need buffs or reworks. I don't understand the point of this system if this is how you intend to do it. What players want are more options, not less. This is why many people point out that many warframes have one, two, or even three abilities which on their own may only seem 'mediocre' but when compared to their peers are shown to be completely obsolete or unintuitive. I just don't understand the point of hamstringing things before you launch them. This reminds me of Rhino's stomp augment, which when originally promoted granted 3% of Ironskin health per enemy hit, this would've been an interesting option for Rhino, as you could forgo using Ironclad Charge and Iron Shrapnel and build for more range. Becoming a lock-down Rhino instead of just Tank/Roar Rhino. On release you changed it to 30 armor per enemy hit, which was a massive decrease in effectiveness, and the result is no one uses that augment. Its dead content. This update to the Helminth system, including the reduction of the MR requirement to 8 makes it seem as if you're creating a content graveyard. If the options granted by a system are not worth the effort, or the rewards from said system are not worth the effort, players will naturally ignore it. Content which is ignored is eventually left in the same pile of broken things like Raids, Dark Sectors, and Conclave currently are. Which is to say, people know it exists (or existed) and most people don't care anymore. It becomes a waste of time instead of an interesting system to explore.

If you simply do not want the power level of players to go even higher, why did you choose Roar in the first place? Rhino has 2 other abilities that could be useful on other frames without being a direct damage boost. Ironclad Charge, provided the armor bonus could be applied to other armor boosting abilities, i.e. if Iron Renewal snapshot the bonus armor from Ironclad to itself, or Scarab Swarm added it to its original bonus. This would open up options for other armor-based tank frames which have fallen behind to gain some additional upfront survivability. Stomp on a CC focused warframe would be extremely effective.

[ChaoticEdge]

8 hours ago, Aldain said:

A wise one, because people would react even more violently if they did it post launch.

People also would have pitched a fit if things like Roar weren't an option in the first place and DE launched it with just the most basic utility type moves people would be demanding that things like Roar be added instead.

People would be angry no matter what they do, and honestly if this causes said angry people to quit the game then frankly I don't give a damn.

Some people will never be satisfied, even if you give them what they want they will demand more, the very essence of greed.

You can say that to the ppl who thumbs down on steam a lot. 

Yet somehow it got change.  Magically...

 

[Rakosta_Kai]

45 minutes ago, ChaoticEdge said:

The expectation of such high hype, dies for all I can think DE is killing the hype train here.  Time discuss will it be ok with all the players and the communties with this "heavy nerf"?

Here's the thing...A buff is still a buff even if it isn't as large as the buff they were hoping for.

Even nerfed, the subsumed abilities will generally take the place of abilities the player doesn't normally use anyway...That's a buff.

If the knowledge that the buff isn't 100% of the original keeps the idea of subsuming from being appetizing, then they probably shouldn't subsume for the buff to begin with anyway.

[Natalo18]

I hope from the bottom of my heart that they are not cruel with the numbers, otherwise it will be just one of several ‘mechanics’ that started out as a good idea, but that became useless before it was even implemented. In this little more than a year of walking, I have noticed a great skill on the part of the developer when it comes to 'hype' the players and soon afterwards frustrate them.

(sorry for my english, it's not my mother tongue)

[TylRegor]

the plan was solid the abilities interesting, the concept amazing....more vatiety in gameplay?, shinning a light on abilities that no one uses to potentially change and improve?, finally giving something to players that have played a considerable ammount of the game instead of the people who play 3 weeks and leave?

IT WAS AN AMAZING IDEA.

but you had to tamper with it as always, nerfing whats "good" leaving whats "not good" in the dumpster.

I was genuinely excited about the doors that this would open, finally something that more experienced players can do instead of your average casual player.

as many people have said already, my hype has dropped........like a pigeon shot from the sky on a monday afternoon with a shotgun.

dissapointed, hope these changes get reconsidered.....again.

[CodeUltimate]

welp they nerfed it already and it's not even live yet lol. There goes my excitement for this update.

[GaleSquid]

Why MR 8 change? I just brought a new friend into the game this week on PS4 and he's already MR 7. MR 8 = baby. o__o I am confusion. Of course some people choose not to pursue raising their MR much, so is that why? Will it be gated behind starchart completion? That method seems like it works pretty well. I'll admit, I have no interest in using this system because I'm a roleplayer and the methods seem immoral in the whole human sacrifice style of it, but a lot of veteran players seem excited about it, so I hope it does well.

[Whiteraid]

22 minutes ago, (PS4)Ravenger-MRIB said:

Of course they have to nerf the good abilities, gotta make Airburst look like it's worth using somehow.

It is worth using through . It has been change to but the most broken CC pull in the game with 360 degree aoe and can be place any where

[(XBOX)MetalxPhoenix]

54 minutes ago, (XB1)C11H22O11 said:

They warned that there might be changes before launch, better to make the changes now instead of changing them later and piss some people off. 

Yep. And better to do now then after the system implemented and have the horde of posts "My time invested" or "Can I get those resources back" or "I farmed x frame for so long only to get nerfed, Can I have my time back?"

[(XBOX)CaligulaTwily]

Hmm, I'm fine with changes. The abilities are more powerful on their original frames, so the original frames don't just become obsolete/MRfodder

[(PSN)NeunDrachen]

No numbers tho but saying hold yer judgement till then would be falling on deaf ears. Doesnt change the fact that a damage buff is still a damage buff or a cc ability is still a cc ability.

 

Defy getting armor capped is fine too because 1) its not a dr ability, just an armor increase

2) doesnt change the fact that its a panic button and status cleanse both of which i value more than the armor buff.

Like "omg, theyre nerfing the abilities ppl were complaining about getting!!!" God these kind of threads just get stupider

[Xsoskeleton]

On 2020-08-13 at 12:27 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Wukong - Defy
Armor capped

Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules?
It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.

uhhhh Armor capped what? Defy has always been capped to +1500 at most though????
Who even has the concern for Defy being overwhelming? it's already underwhelming enough from what it was and it just had to be made not worth even further for subsuming?
Does DE staffs (all, not just the few who plays on stream) even tried playing Steel Path missions without multiple band-aids such as invisibility, arcanes and mods on low armored frames? Defy isn't even comparable to those.

[The-Harbinger-of-Malice]

People keep complaning about how "Roar will make everything redundant, its too OP why you do dis" forgetting that 1, we evaporat everything in the game anyway, 2, Rhino will still be a reliable frame considering the rest of his kit and 3, there are better options for damage potential. give Mesa roar, cool you can melt things that bit faster, as if it matters considering RIVENS EXIST.

[Aryo_Griever]

Honestly my problem with the nerfs is you realize that those abilities will be the most chosen, regardless of the values you end up giving them, because the others are terrible. So instead of making the others better (or choose better ones!), you went and nerfed the only good ones.  

 That's just terrible design.  

  Sigh.