The Helminth: Dev Workshop

[PlagueOfGripes]

If we're just going to get 90% garbage abilities, and have the remaining 10% nerfed to also be garbage, you're just crafting more useless island content that will be ignored, aside from maybe one or two abilities on frames like Loki or Valkyr that are rich with terrible abilities already.

I don't care about number crunching, but using Larva - a utility ability - and seeing enemies standing right next to me totally ignore it is definitely something that would make me resent playing the game at all. Especially after everyone was making fun of the more useless abilities on the list, addressing it by further ignoring those abilities and kits and focusing on ruining good ones is especially tone deaf.

[SoulEchelon]

10 minutes ago, NoMicTENNO said:

Congratulations, you just killed the hype! :3

You wanted only 6 abilities out of 50+? And we don't know how reduced/diminished they are yet. I suggest waiting until it actually releases before you raise pitchforks, but as always this forum pre-emptively kneejerks itself off cliffs all the time so no use even trying to speak reason.

Edit: lol yep, looking at the posts above....I am outtie. I'll wait for the damn thing to release before I critique it. Hope you all packed parachutes.

[DraekoSilver]

34 minutes ago, (XB1)MetalxPhoenix said:

Right? Just change them, especially Rhino and Mirage. Saves them the hassle of doing all the playtesting and numbers.

I mean, I get Nidus. You cant really give his kit away without loosing something.

Personally I would have picked his 1 and took away the energy regen and swapped it with maggots. Hit a enemy? Spawn a maggot. Hit five enemies at one time? All maggots explode. Max 10 maggots. (Maybe also make it a aug so Nidus so he can use it too.)

 

But Rhino? Why pick his BEST ability? Who chose that one? Madness!

[Aisu9]

Le 12/08/2020 à 19:27, [DE]Rebecca a dit :

customization system for very experienced Warframe players (Mastery Rank 15 8 Prerequisite)

Don't get me wrong some of us know the game more at very low MR, but giving this to new players is not a good idea. MR15 was perfect now we can have MR8 kiddo messing around and being toxic with limbo's banish. thanks DE

[(PSN)reddragonhrcro]

And there's what I was afraid of, that the system would end up being pointless, what's the point in a system like that if we are only going to get nerfed versions of stuff. Instead of nerfing why not bring all stuff up on par over time by improving it rather than ruining.

 

Lowered MR to 8? While at it may aswell lower it to 0 so that people can make use of it right out the gate as soon as they start playing for the first time. Like come on, this is ridiculous, this is intended as a system for experienced players, while MR isn't an ideal system it's still a form of progression system. Players should have some form of experience and understanding for warframes and how to work with them which is why the requirement is in place.

[Pancakes]

This does nothing to help the low end of the predictive list. This does not make the useless abilities seem any better. Buff them. What's the point of giving up a loki? What choice is this encouraging? If you want a creative system you need to provide interesting options. 

Instead of looking at what's going to be used a lot, look at what's not going to be used at all because a system like this shouldn't have any completely useless options.

[(XBOX)MetalxPhoenix]

4 minutes ago, DraekoSilver said:

I mean, I get Nidus. You cant really give his kit away without loosing something.

Personally I would have picked his 1 and took away the energy regen and swapped it with maggots. Hit a enemy? Spawn a maggot. Hit five enemies at one time? All maggots explode. Max 10 maggots. (Maybe also make it a aug so Nidus so he can use it too.)

 

But Rhino? Why pick his BEST ability? Who chose that one? Madness!

Best ability for him and one of the best abilities in the game in general.

[.LeiA._]

Dayum, the forums in now my source of entertainment, not the game.

[Noctis_The_Buckethead]

DE If you guys think those 6 are OP just the ones chosen, or buff the weaker ones simple as that. Add some movement, some defense, Also the larva and Defy nerfs make no sense. Larva already has weaknesses, and Defy already has a cap. 

No really defy makes no sense why nerf it with something it already has? Will it have 2 caps now? it makes absolutely no sense at all.

[TheFBD]

Just now, Noctis_The_Buckethead said:

No really defy makes no sense why nerf it with something it already has? Will it have 2 caps now? it makes absolutely no sense at all.

The second cap is for the fun.

[-Conquest-]

good job doing the easy thing and nerf the current top choices instead of buffing other abilities to make them compelling.

way to go DE, once again killing hype.

[(XBOX)FRICKEN PERSON]

5 hours ago, KIREEK said:

I have the feeling this will be rivens 2.0

"Oh look, many players are using this ability, time to nerf it because we don't like that"

Dear DE, you're not making things better, you're just going to harm yourselves on the long run, you're already placing fear before the system is implemented, we do something with the fear it will get changed, who knows, maybe we will have another catchmoon on our hands, where the nerfs will happen over and over and then the only solution will be to change the entire mechanic and when players stop using said ability, you keep it where it was, at rock bottom

The problem isn't the values you assigned to them, the problem is that we are going to invest time into something that might get changed, forcing us to pick another warframe ability later on.

Wait, you telling me you haven't already re-farmed the whole roster of basic frames again even knowing there might be a lot of changes?

Well me neither. Can't complete the list because of Simaris standing. Only have Titania left so I'm close enough for now.

[MonarchPrime]

What about limbo? How will he interact with damage dealing abilities?

[Bingotough]

2 hours ago, General-Pacman said:

So you basically butchered the only abilities that made this system interesting whatsoever.

Also, reducing the mastery requirement to 8 doesn't make any sense. Why are you giving a resource sink to players that don't need it?

So the greatest benefit I can see would be to allow them to avoid 'wasting' their slots when they run out and sell their frames (i.e. I sold my started Excal early on). In this way you can do something productive with your new frame without needing plat for slots. I do agree with the potential for uninformed players binning their frame into the Helminth without understanding the consequence, most MR8s are warframe babies (despite the odd "I'm only MR8 and have maxed all the prime mods and I don't wanna MR").  

Ultimately I don't care too much they're giving it away to MR8s but the nerfs seem a little annoying. Will they take the fun out of the system? We don't have enough details to know but definitely possible.

[tussletoes]

Here to add to the pile:

 

-Lowering the Mastery requirement is a strange choice, and at this point just serves to upset people being excited about the game finally getting a new feature that isn't designed around newer players. It seems to do more harm than good.

-While I see where some of the decisions are coming from, please don't just nerf abilities without also focusing on giving us more reliable options and improving other abilities that are already deemed weak by the community. Most people will still take a weaker roar over, say, Mag's pull or Frost's ice wave.

 

More compelling options is better than just a few compelling options that were slightly nerfed. If this system sees nothing but nerfs across the board, it will seriously damage the main appeal of it which is the chance to expand on the diverse ability roster of this game and give us more build variety, which is one of my favorite things about Warframe.

[Proscriptor]

4 minutes ago, MonarchPrime said:

What about limbo? How will he interact with damage dealing abilities?

roar dramatically improves limbo 4 damage enabling a nuke build for up to around lvl 150 corpus and lvl 50 grineer 

edit: other damage/dps abilities like eclipse and warcry don't do anything specifically useful for limbo, but they're fine i guess

equinox 2 and wisp 3 might have some useful interactions with limbo abilities but i'd have to think about those

[(PSN)TONI__RIBEIRO]

[(XBOX)FRICKEN PERSON]

5 hours ago, (XB1)Papa Requiem said:

This is just wrong. Ensnare is better as it grabs twice and continues to propagate when damage is dealt to them. 

Except Larva is an instant grab and Ensnare takes quite a bit of setup. All the enemies from Larva are going to be dead before Ensnare even half finishes its clump. Plus Larva is a much closer clump with is much better for punch through abilities and weapons like Blaze Artillery.

[KesslerCOIL]

On 2020-08-13 at 5:51 AM, Skythin said:

Yeah, endgame content!

This aged poorly so damn fast

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

8 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

To offer further clarification on why we changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite to MR 8:

There's many factors that come into play in order to engage with the Helminth system, such as:

• Having an ongoing supply of Resources that you don't need elsewhere to feed your Helminth
• Working your way up the Helminth rankings to unlock more features
• Having Warframes your ready/willing to Subsume

Looking at the above, we can see that higher rank players will be more equipped to offer these things to Helminth out the gate, where a MR 8 player will start with more accessible/cheaper Helminth Abilities first before diving deeper. Thus allowing MR 8 players to participate in Helminth and grow as they go.

I disagree with the whole Master Rank approach as a prerequisite. 
 

solution: MR has nothing to do with experience or game progression. Throw that out. If you guys wanted it to be for “experienced players” than having finished the Nidus quest and Umbra quest should be the prerequisite not MR < 8. That at least makes more sense. 

[Metal_Sign]

1 hour ago, (XB1)MetalxPhoenix said:

This is precisely why they are nerfing it and it's justified. Be glad they didn't outright replace it.

Yea, now you can look forward to nothing instead of just one ability〜☆

[Xazur]

Pretty sure DE just looked at Brozime's helminth tierlist and decided to nerf the top 5 most popular abilities.

[(XBOX)VerialArq]

You didn't just kill the hype for this system, you beat it to death, with your ever famous nerf hammer. This companies philosophy regarding nerfs is extraordinarily aggravating, let alone absolutely ridiculous and often ineffective. I have well over a thousand hours in this game, and I have often had to take time away from it over ridiculous that make the game less fun to play, this continuing philosophy that seems to be based on nerfing things that we as players enjoy might be what finally makes me put this game down for good. Start listening to your community again DE, you are killing the fun things about your game, in this case, before we even get to play with it, otherwise you're going to see more and more of you veteran player base leave.

[Pfysicyst]

Half the problem still exists after nerfing the no-brainer widely-useful powers: there are many underwhelming or blatantly bad powers on the list which push people to use the obviously best ones rather than anything that would encourage experimental creative builds.

• Null Star requires a specific extreme build (very high duration, very low range) to be worthwhile, and you can't recast it without the augment so you have to put yourself in danger (near enough enemies for long enough for it to waste itself) to refill it, which opposes the whole reason to use it.
• Airburst doing a weak push/pull is not useful to anyone.
• Ensnare is inferior to Larva on this same list because while it buffs damage, it only does it for Whipclaw and Venari, which inheritors can't have. The propogation aspect may as well not exist for how often it comes into play.
• The best use of Ice Wave is to be amused by the stalagmites as they wrap over terrain; Frost never uses it seriously.
• Decoy is a joke since it can die, Savior Decoy is minimally useful, Deceptive Bond is horrible, and it's not even useful in stealth because it alerts enemies. Loki overall is miserable.
• Tempest Barrage is weak, and with Corroding Barrage it's slow and unreliable at armor stripping compared to Fire Blast on this same list.
• Shuriken, Shock, Spectrorage, Terrify, and Mind Control are only worthwhile with augments, and that's being very generous to Terrify and Mind Control. They're all good candidates to have their augments merged into the base ability just to give them some credibility.
• What's the point of having both Blood Altar and Well of Life? They're almost the same thing now.
• Banish isn't just pointless, it's asking for players to grief each other.
• We don't have enough specific information on Xata's Whisper yet, but adding Void element damage to your weapons is unlikely to be more helpful in almost every situation than a generic damage buff. It's still hard countered by armor which has long been regarded as silly.

[Redfeather75]

I learned that I need to farm syndicate to rank 3. I am so sick of that. I picked up remnant and I'm glad I did. I just can't come back to warframe to farm more syndicate for everything.