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2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

AUGUST 19TH UPDATE:

Greetings, Tenno!

The launch of Heart of Deimos grows near, and we have some Helminth updates since we last posted! Below are 2 parts of updated/clarifying information that touches both Infused Warframe Abilities and the Helminth Segment acquisition.  

PART 1 - Changes to select Infused Warframe Abilities

Please keep in mind we’re still testing/playing around with the values for each, hence why the values are not present below:

The following only apply to Infused Warframe Abilities:

Rhino - Roar
Diminished Damage increase

Mirage - Eclipse
Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction 

Valkyr - Warcry
Attack speed increase reduced

Protea - Dispenser
Duration reduced

Nidus - Larva
Radius reduced

Wukong - Defy
Armor capped


Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules?
It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.


PART 2 - Helminth Segment Acquisition

As already indicated in this Dev Workshops original post, the Helminth Segment is acquired in the Heart of Deimos in the Entrati Syndicate. To expand on that, this means you’ll need to progress within the Entrati Syndicate located within the Necralisk to obtain the Helminth Segment before you can start experimenting with everything Helminth. 

Without spoiling too much, the Helminth Segment is currently obtained in Rank 3 of the Entrati Syndicate. This reminder is simply to set expectations on what you’ll have access to upon logging into the Heart of Deimos. 

That’s all for now!

You are killing the hype you know? instead of  nerfing them give other skills, it would be preferable an un-nerfed sleight  of hand  that provides more than an unreliable Eclipse, wukong's Defy is already capped at 1500 so you are lowering that cap it down even more? at lower levels is "hard" to get  to cap and in higher level  1500 is not even that high, instead of nerfing  the infused skills why not buff the abilites on their original warframes and then we get the un buffed values on infused frames? 

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1 minute ago, (NSW)Takami said:

by the way, MR 8 players don´t have enough alloy plantes to make the Kavat segment for the ship, now they a going to be able to use the the Helminth system? i´m not complaining about that, i´m just pointing about something stuff 

Also this!!!!!!

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Just now, Zahnny said:

Again, I don't care for powercreep abilities or metas. But at some point blame has to be taken at DE for purposefully allowing that hype to build up.

I disagree, DE didn't hype the Helminth system the players did. They just showed the list and even said that stuff in the list is subject to change if someone got surprised that some subsumed abilities got a nerf then... Idk what to say

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1 minute ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I get what you are saying, but I guess my question is, what do we need more power for at this point?

Because DE keep calling this a power fantasy game, then neutering the power fantasy. I want more incentives beyond ship decoration #51284

I'm not even asking this to be provocative but when was the last time DE released a bunch of brand new mods? Because it feels like a year at least for me.

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2 hours ago, --Q--FSK41 said:

Can we at least remove Roar,as it works with abilities and is therefore too OP to balance even with diminishing damage,Iron skin is a far more suitable ability, and lets be honest with the addition of shield gate tank abilities like iron skin are not as strong anymore anyway and therefore fine to give to other frames

Buff Rhinos already exist and your Saryn or Equinox isnt magically too OP for whatever content you are running at the time is it? 

 

Fact: Buff Rhino builds give a better roar than whatever frame youd put roar on and the game is still balanced enough.

Edited by Seadramon.
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1 minute ago, Zahnny said:

But at some point blame has to be taken at DE for purposefully allowing that hype to build up.

If DE said such things would be adjusted right out from the gate people would still have complained.

If DE would have said nothing people would have done the same thing when it launched with the caveat.

If DE had never revealed a list and such powercreep abilities weren't even on the list in the first place people would still have done the same.

Refreshing Kermit The Frog GIF

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19 minutes ago, Zahnny said:

I think Warframe's devs genuinely have a Megalophobia, a fear of power.

In particular, giving players anything of value. I'd make a thread to this single topic alone but knowing certain white knights I'd be shot down for wanting fun.

...

Really?

REALLY?

 

This game which includes a literal aimbot on demand, infinite damage wallhacking explosions and permanent hard stuns larger than most rooms has Megalophobia?

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1 minute ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

Can someone please explain why Defy has to be nerfed on subsuming. It's just more armor.

Because it's an armor buff that is very easy to max-out (1500 // 83% DR) just by taking damage and has a generous duration. It makes everyone a tank without abusing shield gating, negating glass-cannon frame designs. Just think of Mirage, Gauss, Nova, Banshee, Titania, Wisp, Volt, or Mesa with this.

I don't agree with this nerf, but that's likely DE's train of thought there.

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1 minute ago, Zahnny said:

Again, I don't care for powercreep abilities or metas. But at some point blame has to be taken at DE for purposefully allowing that hype to build up.

If I promise to build you a monorail and it crashes part of that blame should be on me.

If I know you build monorails half assed and I still expected a well built, full monorail, I gotta ask what the hell I was thinking.
"Who's the more foolish, the fool, or the fool who follows?" - Obi-Wan Kenobi

7a40e417f56aa2627b6d863acf8555fe.png&f=1

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5 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I get what you are saying, but I guess my question is, what do we need more power for at this point? 

I want to feel like I am progressing as well, but I want to feel like I am progressing for something. We can already pretty easily do multi-hour long runs on Steel Path with current gear. I would love for DE to not be so reluctant to make me more powerful, but right now I feel like there isn't anything for me to be more powerful for. 

That's because anything that pushes your arsenal is deemed "cheap", "unfair", "a bullet sponge", etc. This playerbase is at fault, and DE just responds the best they can. They make their fair share of mistakes, but sometimes their hands are tied between what's healthy for the game, and what makes more money / media attention / positive reception. The Helminth system and Riven Mods are extremely clean cut examples of this dilemma.

Edited by Voltage
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1 minute ago, Loza03 said:

This game which includes a literal aimbot on demand, infinite damage wallhacking explosions and permanent hard stuns larger than most rooms has Megalophobia?

The game which doesn't allow reload mods to be Exilus mods because of powercreep.

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Nyx's 1 is awful. Even with the augment it cannot deal enough damage to enemies because enemy EHP scales exponentially. You might have some minor case about it being a distraction but moving like you're supposed to in the game already reduced enemy accuracy plus the myriad of other ways to survive. Not to mention you don't build strength on nyx and even if you did at 300% powerstrength the above point still stands. Test it. I dare you

The argument that blood alter is a movement ability masked as a support ability is stupid. You know what else is a movement ability which is far more effective and free? bullet jumping. The range of blood alter does not make up for the fact is costs energy. It's a stun and heal. As is well of life, which now is better than alter.


Stop pretending like every single thing on the subsume list is perfect the way it is. There are defiantly abilities that could use a buff.

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Just now, (NSW)Takami said:

Well, people cry enough about those abilities been too powerfull, now they are neft but i think making the other abilities more powerful could help the problem of just picking something like Rhino´s roar but what do i know.

by the way, MR 8 players don´t have enough alloy plantes to make the Kavat segment for the ship, now they a going to be able to use the the Helminth system? i´m not complaining about that, i´m just pointing about something stuff 

I checked the wiki and did the math, people only need to max-rank 26 warframes and their starter weapons, or something like 13 warframes and 26 weapons, in order to get to MR8. Whereas they'd need to go through the whole roster of available warframes (not counting weapon MR gain) to get to MR10.

DE, at least make this remotely resemble your original statements of this being an advanced/veteran mechanic and ensure players need more than 2/3's of the warframes (excluding primes) max-ranked before they get the Helminth System, by meeting in the middle-ish at MR10. It's a nice, clean number. Some of my most casually playing friends who haven't touched 60% of the warframes are already at MR 15.

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12 minutes ago, Traubenzuckr said:

no nyx 1 is a very strong scaling ability. 

blood altar is a mobility ability cloaked in a support ability. it's actually just a teleport skill and it's very good. 

the abilities they buffed are indeed the worst abilities they picked. 

Nyx’s 1 literally won’t scale past about 60, even with the augment. It’s absolute garbage against everything other than infested

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If your posts are getting remove then you're clearly being too aggressive for their tastes. CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. There's enough examples in the thread, simmer down and elaborate on why things are bad, and how you think they could be better :V

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2 minutes ago, Aldain said:

If DE said such things would be adjusted right out from the gate people would still have complained.

I agree but that wouldn't be me.

2 minutes ago, Aldain said:

If DE would have said nothing people would have done the same thing when it launched with the caveat.

Also agree.

I'd probably be bummed out but I wouldn't have any expectations.

2 minutes ago, Aldain said:

If DE had never revealed a list and such powercreep abilities weren't even on the list in the first place people would still have done the same.

Again, I agree. and I don't want powercreep abilities, just stuff that feels fun or utility.

2 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Refreshing Kermit The Frog GIF
 

  With all due respect, why are you here then?

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6 minutes ago, Zahnny said:

Because DE keep calling this a power fantasy game, then neutering the power fantasy. I want more incentives beyond ship decoration #51284

I'm not even asking this to be provocative but when was the last time DE released a bunch of brand new mods? Because it feels like a year at least for me.

I get you, I really do actually. I think I don't feel this way personally only because I took a long break so I'm still playing catch up on some stuff, so of course I don't have the right perspective.

In general they need to be more consistent when it comes to balancing power fantasy versus getting so powerful you stop playing. I remember playing Saints Row IV and loving it, then I turned on cheats and I was bored in a day. But there is a middle ground, and DE is a multi million dollar company with all the stats on their side, so I would love for them to find that middle ground using those resources. 

I think part of the problem is they are too afraid to make enemies hard and keep them hard. When DE introduces enemies that give a good reason for more power, a certain segment of the warframe community complains until they get watered down to nothing (especially if that enemy resists cc or something, which stops us from just shutting down the map effortlessly). And from what I have heard, enemy scaling has become weaker, not stronger since my absence. I want them to not be so afraid to buff both us and our foes. It's okay for us to be strong. It's okay for some of our foes to make it hard to just cc the map and trivialize the game. I think part of the problem is DE listening to casuals who just want to have an easier experience, versus vets who want both extra power and a reason to use it. Sorry, didn't mean for it to be that long a post, just think this is an interesting discussion in general. 

Edited by Tesseract7777
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7 minutes ago, Grav_Starstrider said:

Any Warframe/weapon capable of burst damage would make Nyx's ability scale pretty dang well, and blood altar is a good health regen, enemy lock-down, and mobility ability. I don't think they're wrong, really.

Have you ever tried using nyx's one that way? I have and it does not do anything.

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Been waiting for a radial javelin buff for like 4 years and spectral scream for 2 year

 

meanwhile DE : lets create a system to swap abilities and nerf them while we keep low end signature abilities being low

 

 

Edited by Tsoe
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While I haven't tried out the workshop (ergo I can't speak from experience), it seems disheartning to nerf certain Warframe skills if they're placed onto other Warframes.

After all, what's the point of getting Protea, feeding her to good boy Helminth, only to recieve one, unchooseable ability, but also a less effective version of the ability

at that point, I'd rather just keep my Protea warframe, gear her up for whatever missions I want to play her in, and then play her whenever my team needs the dispensary.

I understand why would you only make subsuming give one of the frame's ability, because otherwise it would be almost exponential amount of combinations to address and polish.

However, if you only give us the nerfed versions of the abilities, it gives very little reason to even bother with the Helminth system. Why should go get all the parts for Nidus (Which for some is the second time), only to get a dumbed down version of his larva?

I could just go level my Zenurik tree and use the void pulling effect, or buy Energy pizzas instead of getting Protea.

I think this system is really cool, lore-wise and gameplay-wise, but I am personally afraid you're already limiting the good possible choices.

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So im not sure how its all going to work, andi have propro but havent used her, 

BUT 

 

if we can replace any power, id assume that if you put it on a warframes 1st slot the cost will be that of the first ability making it super cheap to cast and said cost negating any issue with duration i might have. 

If you havent thought of that i hope it makes you feel better. 

If they mentioned costs not representing the ability slots cost where its applied, i.e. costing what its always cost... then riot i guess. 

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1 minute ago, Zahnny said:

With all due respect, why are you here then?

^&%*s and giggles.

Because these threads happen like freaking clockwork and every single time it is drop dead hilarious.

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)DidelphisV said:

Nyx’s 1 literally won’t scale past about 60, even with the augment. It’s absolute garbage against everything other than infested

how won't it scale past 60? if you mind control a lvl 100 enemy, you will have a lvl 100 minion. 

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I got successfully dehyped for this update. I regret spending time re-farming several frames and i'll most likely cancel some more that are still in my foundry. i'll probably won't even bother with the deimos update. The only thing i'm afraid of now is that DE will realize the update is crap and artificially pump mastery into it to force players to play it, just like railjack.

I have only myself to blame to believe that DE turned around and was listening to players again.

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