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Someone that has been playing this game long enough to acquire 160,000 mastery, having done a good portion of the star chart and ranked up several weapons and/or frames isn't a "noob".  MR 8 guy still has a lot of Warframe goals available to them, I don't see the harm in availing the Helminth system to them as another goal to pursue.  Those of us raising our pitchforks or trying to quell the unrest in the middle of the day on a Wednesday are clearly a vocal minority.  Getting into this Helminth system and trying new combinations is the only goal that remains for some of us 'cause we already have all the things and we've already done all the stuff.  I wouldn't assume every MR8 guy is chomping at the bit to get into the Helminth system in lieu of the goals they're already pursuing.  

As for nerfing some of the abilities in scope, I don't love it but my interest in what's to come is undaunted.

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just reinstall warframe a week ago cause im excited with upcoming helminth update. but now, u f...ing kill it !!!!!

i will wait for the numbers. if u nerf it too much then i have to say goodbye again.

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2 minutes ago, H8RAID said:

Someone that has been playing this game long enough to acquire 160,000 mastery, having done a good portion of the star chart and ranked up several weapons and/or frames isn't a "noob".  MR 8 guy still has a lot of Warframe goals available to them, I don't see the harm in availing the Helminth system to them as another goal to pursue.  Those of us raising our pitchforks or trying to quell the unrest in the middle of the day on a Wednesday are clearly a vocal minority.  Getting into this Helminth system and trying new combinations is the only goal that remains for some of us 'cause we already have all the things and we've already done all the stuff.  I wouldn't assume every MR8 guy is chomping at the bit to get into the Helminth system in lieu of the goals they're already pursuing.  

As for nerfing some of the abilities in scope, I don't love it but my interest in what's to come is undaunted.

you are clearly lying. where you see a majority, you claim it's a minority. 

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10 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Because it's an armor buff that is very easy to max-out (1500 // 83% DR) just by taking damage and has a generous duration. It makes everyone a tank without abusing shield gating, negating glass-cannon frame designs. Just think of Mirage, Gauss, Nova, Banshee, Titania, Wisp, Volt, or Mesa with this.

I don't agree with this nerf, but that's likely DE's train of thought there.

HAHAHHAHAHA.

Wisp and Mesa are already not glass tanks. Wisp can vastly inflate her health pool with her first ability and then still regenerate health, while Mesa gets 90% damage reduction + 20% damage reduction from shields. And even in response to every Warframe being able to tank, I'll quote myself.

13 minutes ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

That's a good thing considering right now I can pull up a Redirection + Primed Vigor Mesa for 90% damage reduction stacking with the 20% damage reduction of shields. With Defy I could finally play something other than "Warframe that refuses to die" on higher levels, but with the nerf... Back to same old, same old.

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4 minutes ago, Traubenzuckr said:

how won't it scale past 60? if you mind control a lvl 100 enemy, you will have a lvl 100 minion. 

because enemy health and damage scale at different rates. You can have a lvl 100 enemy under your control and its damage won't even tickle the lvl 100s it's hitting

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Thanks, so I wasted my time farming up frames like Nidus again for nothing if you are just going to butcher and nerf the abilities anyway. 

What's even the point of this system then? 😕

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Just now, Hoppyscotch said:

because enemy health and damage scale at different rates. You can have a lvl 100 enemy under your control and its damage won't even tickle the lvl 100s it's hitting

that's why you have the augment and the armor stripping ability (nyx 2). also, that's why you don't mind control any random enemy but those that do a lot of damage. 

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1 minute ago, Traubenzuckr said:

that's why you have the augment and the armor stripping ability (nyx 2). also, that's why you don't mind control any random enemy but those that do a lot of damage. 

dude if you want to play nyx do it. i literally don't care. you can even pretend like she's in a perfect place for yourself. but don't by any means pretend that she's actually viable when discussing her from a meta standpoint, especially in the context of the subsume system. I already told you even with her augment this problem persists. The issue with her 2 is you dump power strength on nyx in favor of duration and range.

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3 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

PART 1 - Changes to select Infused Warframe Abilities

This is a rather uninspired way to go about it, lol. How about making some of the other abilities worthwhile and different functionality wise? Like there are some *incredibly* low hanging fruit here. Zephyr's pull is not even worth the time to read the ability description right now, and quiver without dash wire just feels wrong. As you said, this is intended to be an end game, veteran player feature. With us, you really only need to make abilities good for us to automatically flock to them, we know the game well enough. 

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Just now, Hoppyscotch said:

dude if you want to play nyx do it. i literally don't care. you can even pretend like she's in a perfect place for yourself. but don't by any means pretend that she's actually viable when discussing her from a meta standpoint, especially in the context of the subsume system. I already told you even with her augment this problem persists. The issue with her 2 is you dump power strength on nyx in favor of duration and range.

you obviously don't play nyx so why don't you shut up? people use nyx 1 against lvl 9999 enemies. you are ignorant from the bottom up. 

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30 minutes ago, Jim22 said:

Then why nerf something if the numbers aren't done? 

So people can set their expectations and prepare or not prepare accordingly. Nerfing it on release would be much more abrupt. 

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3 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

PART 1 - Changes to select Infused Warframe Abilities

Please keep in mind we’re still testing/playing around with the values for each, hence why the values are not present below:

The following only apply to Infused Warframe Abilities:

If you already pre-emptively need to nerf abilities for a system that swaps abilities, why not pick other abilities.

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il y a 5 minutes, Traubenzuckr a dit :

that's why you have the augment and the armor stripping ability (nyx 2). also, that's why you don't mind control any random enemy but those that do a lot of damage. 

I hope you're just being ironic, but I'm afraid you're not.

Realize one thing about what is said: if your 2 strip armor, why would I bother HOPING the ennemy I "mind control" (but still can't control) will shoot one of the 2 ennemies without armor ? And even still, PURE health scaling is higher than PURE damage scaling, without considering armor. And 100 is fairly early level. So if I strip armor, why would I use mind control over, let's say, my weapons?

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Just now, Zahnny said:

The game which doesn't allow reload mods to be Exilus mods because of powercreep.

can you blame them? Power Creep is, to be honest, singularly the biggest problem with Warframe. It has utterly and systematically ravaged almost all elements with every attempt to address it being met with harsh resistance.

Loot economy: the absurd power and availability of such has rendered the majority gameplay as completely linear. There is no differentiation between precision weapons and power weapons - our strongest weapons can shred boss fights as fast as they can destroy hordes of any variety. As such, every weapon from that point forward cannot hold a unique niche, and therefore must be held in direct comparison with each other. From there, something is either better or it's useless. The same is true for frames in individual roles - for example, every frame with invisibility has to be compared to Loki who can render himself immune to enemy detection for half a minute with the right modding. Therefore, they either have to go longer (whereupon Loki will become irrelevant) or have another utility appended to what is already a hugely powerful ability which allows players to entirely avoid encounters. Hence the constant power creep or dead-on-arrival frames/weapons.

Enemy design: Enemies spend the vast majority of their time either dead or completely incapable of damaging the player one way or another. There is literally no point to regular enemies at that point, because you can't design enemies to fight that without arbitrary ability immunity. Boss fights are neutered by the extreme discrepencies between tank frames, which as described above, are locked in a race of taking more death star hits to the face to the point of absurdity, so boss damage will either be completely irrelevant in the face of them, or so outrageously high as to lock out any other frame.

Mission design: Second first same as the first really. Without relevant enemies, the missions, which are naturally combat focused, lose any kind of interest. Whenever something isn't combat focused, it's naturally controversial at best.

Content Drought: Unsurprisingly, when the loot grind is unfulfilling, and the combat is unfulfilling, then the gameplay as a whhole is unfulfilling and doesn't hold a player's interest for as long. As such, players at or near the end of the Progression will find themselves frequently bored, as new content loses its luster much faster than expected, especially since due to how linear gameplay is at our power level, it's not actually anywhere near as 'new' as expected.

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I don't think it's a reasonable expectation that every ability would be equally viable. Not every frame is equally viable either. It's just a strange expectation to have IMO. Making some abilities weaker when not used on their source frame is ensuring that there's some variety and not one or two abilities that feel mandatory like everyone's been complaining would be the case. (I wasn't convinced and I'm still not, but that was a very popular position.) Spot fixing that doesn't suddenly raise the requirement that all abilities on the list are equal or even that all are viable. I mean a frame like Banshee or Zephyr doesn't have any viable abilities to donate to begin with.

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1 minute ago, Traubenzuckr said:

you obviously don't play nyx so why don't you shut up? people use nyx 1 against lvl 9999 enemies. you are ignorant from the bottom up. 

Nyx was my favorite warframe for years before you even started the game. You clearly don't understand how the game works.

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Just now, Kur0Shir0 said:

I hope you're just being ironic, but I'm afraid you're not.

Realize one thing about what is said: if your 2 strip armor, why would I bother HOPING the ennemy I "mind control" (but still can't control) will shoot one of the 2 ennemies without armor ? And even still, PURE health scaling is higher than PURE damage scaling, without considering armor. And 100 is fairly early level. So if I strip armor, why would I use mind control over, let's say, my weapons?

another nyx non-player worthlessly interjecting. nyx is one of the most meta frames for the level cap content, on the basis of all of her abilities, including 1.

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On 2020-08-12 at 12:27 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

We have also changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite of the Helminth Segment to 8 (was 15)

They're determined to keep high MR meaningless.

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3 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

AUGUST 19TH UPDATE:

Greetings, Tenno!

The launch of Heart of Deimos grows near, and we have some Helminth updates since we last posted! Below are 2 parts of updated/clarifying information that touches both Infused Warframe Abilities and the Helminth Segment acquisition.  

PART 1 - Changes to select Infused Warframe Abilities

Please keep in mind we’re still testing/playing around with the values for each, hence why the values are not present below:

The following only apply to Infused Warframe Abilities:

Rhino - Roar
Diminished Damage increase

Mirage - Eclipse
Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction 

Valkyr - Warcry
Attack speed increase reduced

Protea - Dispenser
Duration reduced

Nidus - Larva
Radius reduced

Wukong - Defy
Armor capped


Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules?
It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.


PART 2 - Helminth Segment Acquisition

As already indicated in this Dev Workshops original post, the Helminth Segment is acquired in the Heart of Deimos in the Entrati Syndicate. To expand on that, this means you’ll need to progress within the Entrati Syndicate located within the Necralisk to obtain the Helminth Segment before you can start experimenting with everything Helminth. 

Without spoiling too much, the Helminth Segment is currently obtained in Rank 3 of the Entrati Syndicate. This reminder is simply to set expectations on what you’ll have access to upon logging into the Heart of Deimos. 

That’s all for now!

Defy already has an Armour Cap of 1500. Are you reducing it further? Maybe 750? Which is still pretty big, most of the time I barely feel the difference when I activate Defy.

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I am not active on the forums, but I feel like this is the one time I need to speak up.

Lowering the MR requirement to 8 is a huge mistake.

This is not because of some elitism or balance concerns. New players already have a lot on their plate. A lot of stuff to spend resources on. A lot of systems to experiment with. MR 8 players get access to their first riven mods. I have tried to get several of my friends into the game and I know that many people below MR 10 are really overwhelmed by everything in the game.

And on top of that, Helminth System is also a huge resource sink. And it should be. But that also means that it is really not suitable for people without large stockpiles of resources. There is a high probability that this system turns into, from a lack of a better term, a "noob trap", bankrupting players who just don't know any better. We have previously ran into this issue with Kuva Liches, as MR5 people are pretty unlikely to have the gear to beat level 50+ grinner. Similarly, those MR8 players are unlikely to be ready and prepared to spend their resources on this system.

Please, reconsider this change. If you really want to make this system available to more people, make it MR 10 or 12. Or limit the functionality in some way for the less experienced players. Or even make the segment suitably expensive to build. There must be some major barrier of entry before the actual resource sink becomes available.

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