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Why would you change it to mastery from 15 to 8. No thats just no.... Newer player can get up to mastery 8 easily and seeing they have to dump more resources into another system is just confusing for them. Let them grow as they do the game..... Mastery 15 is balanced where they know what to do and have some left off resources to use in this system. 

 

The nerfs are completely NOT understandable. Rhino needs to be a rhino, and etc......   BUFF THE OTHER POWERS of the other frames thats why we only going to use those powers instend the other useless ones

Edited by This_Guy_Steve
the truth
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1 minute ago, nooneyouknow13 said:

You guys funneled in mostly garbage skills from the other frames, of course these were overwhelmingly going to be the go to skills.

they still have overseen shock trooper and oberons 1st ability which are just insanely strong

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To the people who are saying that the nerfs on the subsumed versions of the abilities are justified because it leaves a reason to play the original Warframe, doesn't that just point to a bigger problem? If one ability on a frame being available to all takes away any reason to play that frame, doesn't that just mean that the frame's kit is the issue and needs a rework? If that's the case, wouldn't it benefit it to be played by fewer people for a while (because people can use the "useful" ability elsewhere) since that is one of the big indicators to DE as to what needs a rework and what doesn't?

Also, as others have pointed out, I'm just so amused that the promise of delivering what was shown at Tennocon has already fallen through a bit, nerfs before it is even out and the system for veteran players suddenly becomes more new player friendly.

 

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hace 13 minutos, Jarriaga dijo:

Reb actually said several abilities were due to be buffed for the system during her interview with Shy on August 3rd when she revealed Zephyr's chosen ability and the buff. I don't know what happened.

she meant buff by nerfing the good ones

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Nerfing the few useful skills won't make players try the useless ones, it will make players ignore the Helminth system as a whole, since it will have no appeal at all.

If you want to encourage build diversity, buff or tweak the worse abilities to make them more viable.

 

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2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

AUGUST 19TH UPDATE:

Greetings, Tenno!

The launch of Heart of Deimos grows near, and we have some Helminth updates since we last posted! Below are 2 parts of updated/clarifying information that touches both Infused Warframe Abilities and the Helminth Segment acquisition.  

PART 1 - Changes to select Infused Warframe Abilities

Please keep in mind we’re still testing/playing around with the values for each, hence why the values are not present below:

The following only apply to Infused Warframe Abilities:

Rhino - Roar
Diminished Damage increase

Mirage - Eclipse
Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction 

Valkyr - Warcry
Attack speed increase reduced

Protea - Dispenser
Duration reduced

Nidus - Larva
Radius reduced

Wukong - Defy
Armor capped


Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules?
It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.


PART 2 - Helminth Segment Acquisition

As already indicated in this Dev Workshops original post, the Helminth Segment is acquired in the Heart of Deimos in the Entrati Syndicate. To expand on that, this means you’ll need to progress within the Entrati Syndicate located within the Necralisk to obtain the Helminth Segment before you can start experimenting with everything Helminth. 

Without spoiling too much, the Helminth Segment is currently obtained in Rank 3 of the Entrati Syndicate. This reminder is simply to set expectations on what you’ll have access to upon logging into the Heart of Deimos. 

That’s all for now!

I'm more interested in the passive abilities the helminth will give us without sacrifice warframes, are DE planing on spanding those in the future? I'll love a energy effciency passive

Edited by Furappi
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1 minute ago, Furappi said:

I'm more interested in the passive abilities the helminth will give us without sacrifice warframes, are DE planing on spanding those in the future i'll love a energy effciency passive

probably , but might get nerfed also before or after release 

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On 2020-08-12 at 2:27 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

EDIT: We have also changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite of the Helminth Segment to 8 (was 15).

Not gonna lie, you guys did everything right in this update. Until now.

The entire idea of this system was to be a deep customizable system made for EXPERIENCED players (AKA Veterans and players that actually play the game) and now it isn't anymore.

Again, you guys just listen to the casuals and new players that only play the game for two weeks and gives the middle finger to veterans in the end.

The MR requirement SHOULD GO UP NOT DOWN. The game have a lack of veteran systems that makes new players have a reason to grind and level up. The Helminth System would be a incredible start.

I'm still hyped for the system but this change is horrible. Revert it.

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8 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

MR rank doesn't say anything about "experienced" to me, because Hydron exists.  And "experienced players" doesn't mean "endgame."

"Very experienced players" also doesn't mean a player played for no more than one month. Which is all it takes to get MR 8 while Not trying. And I base this not only from the 24h required but also MR points required.

What would you consider a better lock?

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I expected nothing and... honestly I was surprised, but in current year we can't have nice things anymore.

Honestly out of the nerfed abilitys I only planned to maybe use defy on excalibur for a little more survivability and Dispenser for the energy hungry frames.

My hopes still lie on EMPOWER and the other Helminth abilities. Maybe it would have been smart to just indroduce Helminth abilities so that the people couldn't whine about their favourite ability not being unique to its origin warframe anymore.

PS: DE when do you learn its not a good idea to hide this systems behind timegated grind wall.s

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I think that Mastery 8 is too low as many others have said. 15 was good and 20 (as suggested by some) was ridiculous. Maybe something like 12-14 if you have to go lower than 15. Basically it should be absolutely locked behind the Sacrifice/New War. Not only does this make sense narratively it also makes sense as far as player mastery is concerned. I understand that most folks get this around MR 10.

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Justo ahora, (PS4)IrOrphanCrippler dijo:

"Very experienced players" also doesn't mean a player played for no more than one month. Which is all it takes to get MR 8 while Not trying. And I base this not only from the 24h required but also MR points required.

What would you consider a better lock?

MR 12 pls 😄

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vor 5 Minuten schrieb kxZyle:

I guess it's way less work to nerf the best abilities than to buff the bad ones.

Easier said than done. 

Just imagine by which amount you would have to buff abilities like air burst, decoy or hydoid barrage to make competitive to the top abilities.

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2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

AUGUST 19TH UPDATE:

Greetings, Tenno!

The launch of Heart of Deimos grows near, and we have some Helminth updates since we last posted! Below are 2 parts of updated/clarifying information that touches both Infused Warframe Abilities and the Helminth Segment acquisition.  

PART 1 - Changes to select Infused Warframe Abilities

Please keep in mind we’re still testing/playing around with the values for each, hence why the values are not present below:

The following only apply to Infused Warframe Abilities:

Rhino - Roar
Diminished Damage increase

Mirage - Eclipse
Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction 

Valkyr - Warcry
Attack speed increase reduced

Protea - Dispenser
Duration reduced

Nidus - Larva
Radius reduced

Wukong - Defy
Armor capped


Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules?
It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.


PART 2 - Helminth Segment Acquisition

As already indicated in this Dev Workshops original post, the Helminth Segment is acquired in the Heart of Deimos in the Entrati Syndicate. To expand on that, this means you’ll need to progress within the Entrati Syndicate located within the Necralisk to obtain the Helminth Segment before you can start experimenting with everything Helminth. 

Without spoiling too much, the Helminth Segment is currently obtained in Rank 3 of the Entrati Syndicate. This reminder is simply to set expectations on what you’ll have access to upon logging into the Heart of Deimos. 

That’s all for now!

you just killed the hype. This is why Warframe will always remain mediocre.

 

And its locked behind a tedious grind to boot? Nice

 

Edited by Kog12
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44 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

To offer further clarification on why we changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite to MR 8:

There's many factors that come into play in order to engage with the Helminth system, such as:

  • Having an ongoing supply of Resources that you don't need elsewhere to feed your Helminth
  • Working your way up the Helminth rankings to unlock more features
  • Having Warframes your ready/willing to Subsume

Looking at the above, we can see that higher rank players will be more equipped to offer these things to Helminth out the gate, where a MR 8 player will start with more accessible/cheaper Helminth Abilities first before diving deeper. Thus allowing MR 8 players to participate in Helminth and grow as they go.

That sounds good on paper, if we ignore all the other content they barely took part in and that exists at the same time as this system.

 

MR8 player barely experienced 1/4 of the frames moretheless understood what each frame can do as a whole, that might as well lead to frustration when they lose mats at a stage where said mats are rather precious because they put a crappy Helminth ability (which most are) on a slot hat had a powerful ability they did not understand at the time. I'd even say that there's plenty of Mr20 and higher players that don't even know that any frame can use Inaros' devour to restore their own HP akin to a HP tower.

It also divides their materials between crafting new equipment which unlocks Mastery ranks or feeding those materials to Helminth. At MR8 I doubt players have that many materials they don't need, or even know which materials they actually need.

New players already have plenty of long term goals to focus on, be it acquiring new equipment or grind Focus and personally I don't think this system is all that great to have so early on. If anything unlocking it a few ranks later means they have a better understanding about their own stock piles and better understand about Warframes and the game as a whole.

 

If the Helminth system was completely detached on every other system, I'd understand that, focus in part is the closest thing to a long term goal even though it fails at setting a feasible goal without grinding exclusively for it (plus the terrible lens farm), but Helminth uses multiple systems that are shared (and vital for progression) and that is likely to result in frustration at early stages rather than being a pleasant long term goal. We already see plenty of threads complain about the grind that players are exposed early on, plus some topics that go under the radar (like lens which I mentioned before), this system will only intensify those frustrations.

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I was expecting something like this those abilities are far too potent to be handed out like candy. If you have an overpowered synergy in mind *don't tell anyone* it won't get nerfed 😉

The only clarification I'd like do the nerfs affect the original frame? - I'd hate for Valkyr to get prodded again.

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22 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

The problem there is that the only way for, say, Mind Control or Reave to become viable options over Defy, Roar or Dispenser is to nerf them to 10% their current effectiveness. You can't expect for the nerfs to be just "mild" so the abilities remain good if the purpose is to make them all viable because the gap is way too large to begin with. The "good" abilities are so far ahead of things such as Mind Control that they might as well be in a different solar system. That's how big of a nerf they'd need.

I think you're exaggerating. The problem is that good abilities are good abilities, and trash is trash. By the way, helminth has some good abilities, in case you haven't noticed. If Rhino gives 5%, I'll just take the ammo efficiency, because this thing will increase my DPS more than a measly 5%.

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49 minutes ago, --RV--Faras said:

You gain MR as you play the game, I'm not trying to say that every mr29 knows everything about the game, nor am I trying to say that every lower MR player knows nothing about the game - don't get me wrong

What I'm trying to say is that with playing the game, comes using different gear. With experiencing changes the game goes through comes, again, using different gear. So with all that, MR comes naturally. And I can easily prove that by just checking your own profile. You having went through all the changes in the game, have accumulated a decent, respectable amount of MR, while on the other hand, an MR 8 didn't; an MR 8 typically isn't an old player nor veteran in the game, an MR 8 is typically a newer player which is an audience this update isn't targeting.

But the gate is trying to be the same as with raids, or liches, it's trying to introduce the system early on so that players become familiar with it and then advance and upgrade it over time.

The jackal also introduces the finisher system yet it will only be used heavily on lich content, but these hints serve to help players later on (if they want to learn that is)

Newer players will likely use the 1st few abilities the helmith has unlocked, while veterans will use essentially everything to their disposal, with beefy mods and lots of modding experience

Edited by KIREEK
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On 2020-08-12 at 6:27 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

THE HELMINTH: DEV WORKSHOP.

Tenno the time has come for our comprehensive Dev Workshop on The Helminth System (formerly known as ‘Helminth Chrysalis System, we reduced the name length for ‘Mouth’feel)! This Dev Workshop is subject to change, but here is everything you need to know about THE HELMINTH!

We debuted this system at TennoCon 2020 - rewatch here:

https://youtu.be/KoKO1nAk0MQ?t=1693

The Helminth System is an expansion of the Helminth room on your Orbiter - you may only know this room as an infested space that allows you to remove the Helminth Cyst. With the ‘Heart of Deimos’ Update, that’s all changing. The Helminth system enables you to customize your Warframes by infusing new Abilities in place of existing Abilities.

How does it work?
To participate in the Helminth, you must obtain the ‘Helminth Segment’. This is acquired in the Heart of Deimos in the Entrati Syndicate and is then installed on your Orbiter in the Helminth Room to begin your Helminth journey!

Once ready, there are 2 key things this System offers:

- You can replace 1 Ability per Warframe.
- Every Warframe can be Subsumed to permanently provide 1 specific Ability to Helminth.


Who is this for?
We consider this a customization system for very experienced Warframe players (Mastery Rank 15 8 Prerequisite). We do not intend to let newer players unlock this system. We intentionally placed the Segment deep into progression to ensure only experienced players could access the Segment and begin their journey with Helminth.


What are Resources / Secretions?
Virtually every Resource you’ve ever earned can be fed to Helminth - your stockpiles have a new home! This Feeding creates SECRETIONS, which allow you to utilize the Helminth for Ability customization.
Helminth has a diverse appetite - make sure you feed Helminth Resources they want to eat to get the best Secretion results! Your choices on what you’ve fed Helminth will determine its willingness to reward secretions - change it up for best results!
 

Permanent?
Infused Abilities are removable with the click of a button - they will stay within a given Warframe as long as you decide you want it!

Subsuming a Warframe is permanent  - only Subsume Warframes you are sure you do not want to play with. You can always re-earn or re-buy a subsumed Warframe.

 

Do Configurations matter?
You can deeply customize by only replacing Abilities on certain Configurations, as seen in the Demo! But we would like to expand this further to demonstrate just how deep you can go.

You can have 1 different Ability infused PER config!

So if you have Excalibur in the chair - you could put Shock on Configuration A, Molt on Configuration B, and Firewalker on Configuration C!

For example, if you wanted Shock applied to Excalibur on Configuration A but wanted Configuration B and Configuration C to stay default with Slash Dash, you can do so!

 

What does Ranking Helminth do?
As you feed and use the Helminth system, you will rank up! Each Rank unlocks something different - from a new power, to more Subsume Slots (max Rank Helminth = unlimited Subsume Slots), make sure you progress through the Ranks by regularly Feeding Helminth, Subsuming, and Infusing your Warframes! 


What are the Helminth Abilities?
Helminth Provides unique abilities of their own - these are subject to change before launch, but here is the current list:
 

"EMPOWER"

"Increase the power strength of your next ability."
 

“ENERGY MUNITIONS"

"Imbue your weapons with ammo efficiency."
 

"INFESTED MOBILITY"

"Increase your sprint and parkour speed."
 

"MARKED FOR DEATH"

“Stun an enemy, next damage you deal to it, will be dealt to all enemies around it."
 

"REBUILD SHIELDS"

"Instantly restore shields."
 

"PERSPICACITY"

"Your next hack will be automatic."
 

"COMPANION HEAL"

"Heal your companion and call it to your side."
 

"EXPEDITE SUFFERING"

"Hit enemies in a cone, affected enemies will have their Bleed and Toxin status removed and their remaining damage dealt in a burst."


What is Infusion?
Infusion is the process of injecting a Warframe with an Ability - whether it be one of Helminth’s own, or another Warframes. Every Warframe can receive 1 Infused ability at a time in any Ability slot (i.e you could place Shock on any of the 4 Ability slots). 

 

What is Subsuming? 
In addition to Helminth’s own Abilities, you can Subsume a Warframe to obtain 1 specific Ability permanently in Helminth’s memory (list below). We do not allow the Subsuming of any Prime Warframes, but you can Infuse Abilities on Prime Warframes! 

Subsuming is the act of permanently providing a base Warframe into the Helminth’s biology. 1 Warframe can be subsumed every 23 hours. The Warframe can be any Rank. 

What Abilities are earned on Subsuming a Warframe?

The following table outlines the current Ability a given Warframe will provide on the Subsume action. This is subject to change before launch. 

WARFRAME

ABILITY

AUGMENT

DEV NOTES

Ash

Shuriken

Seeking Shuriken

 

Atlas

Petrify

Ore Gaze

We will not create Rubble.

Banshee

Silence

Savage Silence

 

Baruuk

Lull

Endless Lullaby

 

Chroma

Elemental Ward

Everlasting Ward

 

Ember

Fire Blast

Healing Flame

 

Equinox

Rest & Rage

Calm & Frenzy

We will use Rest or Rage depending on your Energy Colour. 

Excalibur

Radial Blind

Radiant Finish

 

Frost

Ice Wave

Ice Wave Impede

 

Gara

Spectrorage

Spectrosiphon

 

Garuda

Blood Altar

n/a

 

Gauss

Thermal Sunder

n/a

 

Grendel

Nourish

n/a

Keeps the heal and give Nourish Strike only. 

Harrow

Condemn

Tribunal

 

Hildryn

Pillage

Blazing Pillage

Drains 50 Energy instead of 50 Shield. 

Hydroid

Tempest Barrage

Corroding Barrage

 

Inaros

Desiccation

Desiccation’s Curse

 

Ivara

Quiver

Empowered Quiver

Tap Cloak, Hold Noise. Augment only affects Cloak and Dashwire. 

Khora

Ensnare

n/a

 

Limbo

Banish

Rift Haven

Base Ability Change: Add ‘Cancel ability on Hold’ to let enemies out of Rift. 

Loki

Decoy

Savior Decoy

 

Mag

Pull

Greedy Pull

 

Mesa

Shooting Gallery

Muzzle Flash

 

Mirage

Eclipse

Total Eclipse

 

Nekros

Terrify

Creeping Terrify

 

Nezha

Fire Walker

Pyroclastic Flow

 

Nidus

Larva

Larva Burst

 

Nova

Null Star

Neutron Star

 

Nyx

Mind Control

Mind Freak

 

Oberon

Smite

Smite Infusion

 

Octavia

Resonator

Conductor

 

Protea

Dispensary

n/a

 

Revenant

Reave

Blinding Reave

 

Rhino

Roar

Piercing Roar

 

Saryn

Molt

Regen Molt

 

Titania

Spellbind

Spellbound Harvest

 

Trinity

Well Of Life

Pool of Life

Base Ability Buffed - Now does small amount of heal over time over a large range. If you hit the enemy, a % of the damage dealt gets converted into AoE heal. 

Valkyr

Warcry

Eternal War

 

Vauban

Tesla Nervos

Tesla Bank

 

Volt

Shock

Shock Trooper

 

Wisp

Breach Surge

n/a

 

Wukong

Defy

n/a

 

Xaku

Xata’s Whisper 

n/a

 

Zephyr

Airburst

n/a

Base Ability Buffed - now has a HOLD or TAP functionality. HOLD to receive original functionality. TAP to suck enemies in a wind Vortex. 


What are my safeguards?

Since you can remove an Ability at any time with the click of a button, you’ll be able to safely experiment with many creative combinations.

For example, if you replace Grendel’s ‘1’, your kit doesn’t really work! If you change around or re-assign Abilities already assigned to Railjack Tactical use, you simply may not have one, or have a new one in its place! If you put Hildryn’s PIllage on Inaros, you don’t get Shields, but you do get diminished Armor/Shields on enemies on cast.

It’s all up to you - have fun experimenting, Tenno!

What about Damage buffing Abilities?

As you can see, we have two Abilities that increase damage: Mirage’s Eclipse, and Rhino’s Roar. We are creating a special case for these Abilities when infused on Warframes with similar Abilities (i.e Chroma, Mirage, Rhino, Octavia). When you infuse these, you will receive a prompt that you can only have 1 Damage Buffing ability at a time, and thus you are limited to replacing said ability type. Which is to say - Damage Buffing abilities can only be swapped with Damage Buffing Abilities on Warframes that already have them. However, that limitation does not apply to the other 30+ Warframes. 

 

What exactly is going on here with the Warframe Subsuming?

Warframes that are Subsumed join the Helminth in an eternal bond. They will live on in a Lotus flower that matches the colours of the Subsumed Warframe, as a permanent honor. See below for an example of the Helminth garden after 5 Subsumes:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Warframe0178.jpg


Is ‘Helminth’ a permanent name?

Don’t like it? You can rename your Helminth at any time!

Is Helminth a Cat or Dog ‘Person’?

Well, you’ll find out… 

 

Thank you very much for reading our Dev Workshop on the upcoming Helminth Feature - see you in game on August 25 on all platforms!  

======================

AUGUST 19TH UPDATE:

Greetings, Tenno!

The launch of Heart of Deimos grows near, and we have some Helminth updates since we last posted! Below are 2 parts of updated/clarifying information that touches both Infused Warframe Abilities and the Helminth Segment acquisition.  

PART 1 - Changes to select Infused Warframe Abilities

Please keep in mind we’re still testing/playing around with the values for each, hence why the values are not present below:

The following only apply to Infused Warframe Abilities:

Rhino - Roar
Diminished Damage increase

Mirage - Eclipse
Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction 

Valkyr - Warcry
Attack speed increase reduced

Protea - Dispenser
Duration reduced

Nidus - Larva
Radius reduced

Wukong - Defy
Armor capped


Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules?
It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.


PART 2 - Helminth Segment Acquisition

As already indicated in this Dev Workshops original post, the Helminth Segment is acquired in the Heart of Deimos in the Entrati Syndicate. To expand on that, this means you’ll need to progress within the Entrati Syndicate located within the Necralisk to obtain the Helminth Segment before you can start experimenting with everything Helminth. 

Without spoiling too much, the Helminth Segment is currently obtained in Rank 3 of the Entrati Syndicate. This reminder is simply to set expectations on what you’ll have access to upon logging into the Heart of Deimos. 

EDIT: We have also changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite of the Helminth Segment to 8 (was 15).

That’s all for now!

Guys (was) so excited for this... 

No jus feels like a bad taste in the mouth, video games are supposed to be for enjoyment at the core i thought? Tbe effort (and time more importantly) it takes to refarm frames, reforma etc etc etc, you guys can do so much better, the porential this has along with so many other aspects of the game... C'mon warfam where's the love gone? :'(

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4 minutes ago, (PS4)IrOrphanCrippler said:

"Very experienced players" also doesn't mean a player played for no more than one month. Which is all it takes to get MR 8 while Not trying. And I base this not only from the 24h required but also MR points required.

What would you consider a better lock?

MR12. At the very least Helminth deserves a higher MR lock than Paracesis, which itself is a good mark between "player who doesn't know what they're doing" and "someone who ought to understand what 1K ducats are in terms of getting good weapons and mods."

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2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

AUGUST 19TH UPDATE:

Greetings, Tenno!

The launch of Heart of Deimos grows near, and we have some Helminth updates since we last posted! Below are 2 parts of updated/clarifying information that touches both Infused Warframe Abilities and the Helminth Segment acquisition.  

PART 1 - Changes to select Infused Warframe Abilities

Please keep in mind we’re still testing/playing around with the values for each, hence why the values are not present below:

The following only apply to Infused Warframe Abilities:

Rhino - Roar
Diminished Damage increase

Mirage - Eclipse
Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction 

Valkyr - Warcry
Attack speed increase reduced

Protea - Dispenser
Duration reduced

Nidus - Larva
Radius reduced

Wukong - Defy
Armor capped


Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules?
It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.

please let it only be around a 30% decrese of the original so around 2/3 as powerfull at worst otherwise wome of these beceome wothless

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2 minutes ago, (XB1)SirMilkfiend said:

I was expecting something like this those abilities are far too potent to be handed out like candy. If you have an overpowered synergy in mind *don't tell anyone* it won't get nerfed 😉

The only clarification I'd like do the nerfs affect the original frame? - I'd hate for Valkyr to get prodded again.

No effects to the original frame. Assuming things work as intended.

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