Heart of Deimos: New Syndicates & Economy Feedback Megathread

[(PSN)A_850lbs_Gorilla]

I like how EVERYONE is pissed about the son tokens and then when they realize it gets worse.

6 new species of companions

Each one needing guilding to extract the MR.

Each one needs 5 SON tokens to guild.

5x6 = 30 MORE son tokens to get MR (MINIMUM, but each variant has 3 species 3 features and 3 attribute options.  That's 27 possible  combination per lineage times 2 makes 54 combinations times 5 tokens each is 270 son tokens, yeah no thanks) .  Better make sure you pick the right combinations the first time or else you are going to be trying to farm conservation tags for Son Tokens HOPING you have the right number of tags for a chance at the right son tokens that "may be" available.  Anyone farming these tags for a chance at tokens just to "TEST" which combinations make the best companions is like death by a thousand paper cuts.  You have a better chance at winning PowerBall/Lottery then getting the right animal species and right number of tags and then the right tag combination and values before the rotation expires.

LMFAO!  See you all when New War drops.  You can keep that MR nobody has time for that.

 

NOTE:  APPARENTLY it is now 10 SON TOKENS not 5....so yeah just double my numbers I am not doing the math again TLDR it's to many.

[AltheusVI]

I think you should shift the helminth segment down to rank 1 or 2 and take out any requirement to engage with conservation to craft it, essentially, remove the requirement to grind through the conservation bits of open world to get to the bit of the update that was heavily hyped and anticipated. (I suspect a lot of people would bypass the whole open world and go straight for the helminth, I think you should let them).

Lots of people don't like mining, fishing and especially conservation. I don't mind mining or fishing, and I will do casual conservation but I won't touch the business with the lures, EVEN IF that means that I don't get to play with helminth and transferring powers about.

If this remains mandatory you're going to get people grudgingly doing the bare minimum that they have to to get the segment and then never setting foot on deimos again because they associate it with content they don't want to play.

If you were to sell the helminth segment for 500 platinum or even cash I bet you'd make a shedload of cash.

 

TL:DR Don't make me do conservation to get my hands on the helminth segment.

[MortDracula]

I am going to play Destiny until this impossible "grinding never enough" loop is fixed.

[S33K3RsDude]

20 hours ago, LixSin said:

The token system is great, why do people complain about it? A single bounty mission can give you 10,000 standing worth of tokens. And you can hoard them, so you can play a bunch of bounties when you have some time, and then trade them in at other days where you don't have so much time to play. That's a fantastic improvement and greatly DEcreases the grind. It's so much better then Cetus standing (Fortuna is good now, but was worse at launch).

Fishing and mining has also been required for Cetus and Fortuna, so that isn't new, only Conservation was purely optional before.

There is one big problem in the economy, and that is the Son Tokens, which are much more tedious to acquire then the rest. But there are two easy fixes for that: give us Son Tokens for good/perfect captures and add tags to the vault rewards. Then you'd have a pretty sweet standing economy.

While I agree with most of what you said I feel obligated to point out that just because fishing and mining was part of the other two open worlds, doesn't mean that's good or that it should be part of this one as well. Warframe is a game about killing hordes of enemies with cool abilities and weapons. There is bound to be a considerable amount of players who play Warframe for only that and will be extremely put off by having to do mining, fishing and conservation to get to some of the content they're actually interested in (Helminth, Necramechs). Tying things that are so very different from what this game is about so deeply into the progression is still not a good thing. However with the Isolation Vaults this is much less of a problem, since almost everything required to get all the tokens can be gotten from those bounties.

There's only two things that seem to seriously hinder progression: As you've already mentioned the son tokens are extremely costly (requiring up to 16 captures for a single token), when one token directly awarded for each perfect capture would be perfectly reasonable. The other one is the rarity of Scintillants, which are required for half of father's tokens as well as Xaku and the new weapons.

[E.I.G.]

So, I shall be blunt:

I am not going to accept being forced to use the conservation system to progress.

If that requirement is not changed, then I simply will not engage with any content that requires it. I have other things I could be doing instead.

[Darazio]

23 hours ago, Xandis said:

The Necramech Syndicate is (inadvertently?) locked behind MR11, as the first rank-up requires a Zymos Blueprint.


However, the Zymos Blueprint is only purchasable if you're Mastery Rank 11.

Yikes, looks like that Mastery 8 requirement was for naught. lol

[GeorgeFernell]

Just give away the Helminth module, or even better, delete the bloody module and just unlock the thing.

Seriously, the only reason people are hating so much on the "peaceful" activities is because we are all trying to rush to Tier 3 ASAP.

The standing is not supposed to be rushed, it reduces the longevity of the update tremendously.

[Szasa13]

il y a 41 minutes, (PS4)A_850lbs_Gorilla a dit :

I like how EVERYONE is pissed about the son tokens and then when they realize it gets worse.

6 new species of companions

Each one needing guilding to extract the MR.

Each one needs 5 SON tokens to guild.

5x6 = 30 MORE son tokens to get MR (MINIMUM, but each variant has 3 species 3 features and 3 attribute options.  That's 27 possible  combination per lineage times 2 makes 54 combinations times 5 tokens each is 270 son tokens, yeah no thanks) .  Better make sure you pick the right combinations the first time or else you are going to be trying to farm conservation tags for Son Tokens HOPING you have the right number of tags for a chance at the right son tokens that "may be" available.  Anyone farming these tags for a chance at tokens just to "TEST" which combinations make the best companions is like death by a thousand paper cuts.  You have a better chance at winning PowerBall/Lottery then getting the right animal species and right number of tags and then the right tag combination and values before the rotation expires.

LMFAO!  See you all when New War drops.  You can keep that MR nobody has time for that.

Did you count the tokens you get from giving a max rank or a max rank gilded of said companion into that? 

 

[NightmareT12]

38 minutes ago, UnusualDeathCause said:

Seriously, the only reason people are hating so much on the "peaceful" activities is because we are all trying to rush to Tier 3 ASAP.

I feel like the only one who's here for the lore lmao

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

Fish gutting is bugged.

Say you have a batch of Vitreospina, 20 or so caught, and you went and cut them all. The result would be a sparse 1 or 2 Spinal Cores. However, if you gut the Vitreospina 1 by 1 you’re guaranteed to have 1 Spinal Core per 1 Vitreospina.

The resource economy on batch-cuts for Cambion Drift fish is out of whack. It needs to be fixed.

[HelixRook]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

Fish gutting is bugged.

Say you have a batch of Vitreospina, 20 or so caught, and you went and cut them all. The result would be a sparse 1 or 2 Spinal Cores. However, if you gut the Vitreospina 1 by 1 you’re guaranteed to have 1 Spinal Core per 1 Vitreospina.

The resource economy on batch-cuts for Cambion Drift fish is out of whack. It needs to be fixed.

This was supposed to be fixed in the last hotfix. 

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

Just now, HelixRook said:

This was supposed to be fixed in the last hotfix. 

Mayhaps for PC. Consoles need this hotfix asap, however.

[blitzsharp]

Please remove any conservation from main progress. This was suppose to be a side quest. Not all of players enjoy conservation. 

[TheEdIsNotAmused]

Just to add to this thread what I've said in others:  Either Conservation needs a major rework or major features like Helminth and companion gilding needs to be decoupled from it.

Right now its little more than an absurd RNG gate.  I spent 3+ hours looking for those bloody birds - only 1 ever spawned that I could see/find and get to, doing both the droppings/lure hunt as well as just flying around in archwing with the tranq (the latter is how I found the one and only).  The auditory feedback from the rifle's scope would routinely go off without a single target visible, and often when I saw a target (birds in particular) it would be spawned inside map geometry and thus rendered completely inaccessible. Plus, the color scheme of the birds matches the environment so well they're almost invisible unless I have the scope on at all times. I have literally seen 5 total of those birds in 3+ hours of doing nothing but looking for them, only 1 of which was reachable to be tranqed and retrieved, whereas I found plenty of other conservation spawns.  Oh, and speaking of the conservation spawns, the number and variety of them needed to get even a few Son tokens is just silly.  That 3+ hours of incredibly boring, frustrating gameplay netted me the ability to buy no more than 3 of those tokens.  I didn't even bother spending my tags and instead went Alt-F4.  First time Warframe ever frustrated me enough to ragequit.

Deimos Conservation, in its current state, is just deeply unfun and unrewarding gameplay.  Gating one of the major features (Helminth) behind it has completely sapped my motivation to care about the content that you guys just worked so hard to produce under these circumstances.  I've already put Warframe back on the shelf until a patch drops that addresses this in a meaningful way.

Video games are meant to be fun. This is not fun. I understand you don't want players to burn thru the new content in a few days, but you've managed to get at least this player (a Tenno since 2014) to not care about engaging with the new content at all.

[mouseodoom]

26 minutes ago, TheEdIsNotAmused said:

Deimos Conservation, in its current state, is just deeply unfun and unrewarding gameplay.  Gating one of the major features (Helminth) behind it has completely sapped my motivation to care about the content that you guys just worked so hard to produce under these circumstances.  I've already put Warframe back on the shelf until a patch drops that addresses this in a meaningful way.

Video games are meant to be fun. This is not fun. I understand you don't want players to burn thru the new content in a few days, but you've managed to get at least this player (a Tenno since 2014) to not care about engaging with the new content at all.

This is precisely how I feel. 

I spent hours hunting for these birds and still not rank 3 with Entrati. The moment I get my Helminth, I'm done with this the Necralisk until changes are made. More conservation sounds like torture to me.

Maybe give us an object or precept that shows hunting targets on the map? 

Maybe let us see what animal the spore is from before we fly down and examine it?

Or better yet, reduce the hideous conservation grind in general. 

 

Conservation and fishing are not fun. But at least with Fishing I can see where I have to go to fish, I can see what I'm trying to fish. 

[Lady_Khaos]

Now that I've had some time to vent and think about it, I have a solution to propose for the Token system: make them milestone rewards and alternatives when cap is hit. Give standing in the same ways as the other open world areas, and reward tokens when turning in a certain amount of gems/fish/capture tags. Father's are fine as is because he functions in a similar way to Ticker, trading excess resources. Mother's is probably fine as well, but getting standing directly may be preferable, then swap it to Tokens when daily cap is hit.

[TheEdIsNotAmused]

20 minutes ago, mouseodoom said:

Conservation and fishing are not fun. But at least with Fishing I can see where I have to go to fish, I can see what I'm trying to fish. 

This. 

Fishing is OK only because there are reliable ways to get a targeted drop.  There's still an RNG and skill component, but its not RNG generalized over an absurdly large area and an equally absurdly large range of outcomes, and the time commitment to get what you need is acceptable.  It makes it a mini game, not a bloody vocation.

Spending hours looking over an entire open world for spawns that are completely random, generalized, and of a large enough variety where it is statistically probable that the thing you need to spawn will not spawn reliably over hours of gameplay is just not acceptable.  

Warframe is grindy, it is known, but it usually works because the grind is either long but fun, engaging and rewarding with meaningful secondary rewards, or is niche but short and targeted with a reasonable chance of the wanted thing dropping over a reasonable period of time.

Deimos Conservation is neither of those things.  It wouldn't be so bad if the thing that a great many people really want to play with (Helminth) wasn't gated behind said unfun, unrewarding, and unreliable grind.

[[DE]Rebecca]

We are reducing the number of Son Tokens in a near Hotfix. Thanks all! 

 

[Voltage]

10 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We are reducing the number of Son Tokens in a near Hotfix. Thanks all! 

 

.... to zero I hope? Why are you guys forcing players to do conservation to rank-up at all? Will we get our Son Tokens scripted and refunded, or will this be Plains of Eidolons Arcanes 2 where you just shrug it off and say "thanks for being beta testers in our unfinished product"?

[Loza03]

You unlock the Sepulcrum at rank 2 in Entrati - however, you can't actually craft it until rank 3 because it requires a rank 3 item:

[Cerikus]

2 minutes ago, Voltage said:

.... to Zero I hope?

Dude, you have no chill. 😞

[Voltage]

5 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

Dude, you have no chill. 😞

I'm tired of beating around the bush for half a decade on mistakes they should have learned from with Plains of Eidolon in 2017. It's getting old. Why am I even bothering with this update on launch if I am quite literally wasting my time considering we are already getting patches to reduce the first few rank-up costs. What an untested and unstable mess.

[Sweg178]

3 minutes ago, Voltage said:

to Zero I hope?

yah why do we need to farm something ..just give everything for free

[moondog548]

1 minute ago, Sweg178 said:

yah why do we need to farm something ..just give everything for free

Looks like you replied to the wrong thread, because what you just said has nothing to do with complaints about gating core progression behind an unrelated mini-game.

[Voltage]

3 minutes ago, Sweg178 said:

yah why do we need to farm something ..just give everything for free

Last time I checked, I installed the free to play space ninja action shooter called Warframe, not fishing simulator or shooting tiny birds out of the sky for time-gated tokens to rankup the dysfunctional Entrati family for some Mastery/completion. There were numerous issues with conservation in both Plains of Eidolion and Orb Vallis over the last few years. That feedback was more than enough to show you conservation is junk.