Heart of Deimos: New Syndicates & Economy Feedback Megathread

[am0rtized]

The token system is interesting, but forcing people to grind multiple optional activities just to rank up is a very poor decision.  In previous open world areas it was possible to gain standing from fishing, mining, or conservation, in addition to just doing bounties.  Ranking up only required standing and a small number of resources (easily obtainable with a minimum time investment). 

The new progression mechanic introduced in Heart of Deimos makes it impossible to rank up without heavily investing in fishing, mining, conservation, and bounties.  Players don't have the luxury of focusing on their preferred activity.  They have to do a lot of everything.  So, if, hypothetically speaking, a bounty were to be bugged to rarely drop a common reward (which happens to be a very important resource, virtually unobtainable in any other way) or if mining had been so poorly implemented it was impossible to see the deposits or if conservation turned out to be a tedious and terrible mess, there'd be no option to skip that stuff to do something else.  You'd be getting constantly and repeatedly bottlenecked by multiple failing systems.  Of course, that could never happen in Warframe.  Nope.  Not at all. 

[Borg1611]

7 hours ago, Sweg178 said:

doing that will make steel path bounty a loot cave

I'm not sure you can call a bounty a loot cave if it's sending you to random places rather than one place all the time like you would do a real loot cave for. Very few people will bother with steel path bounties the way they are now. Giving them different rewards makes them serve an actual purpose. One purpose that people want is an alternative to get tokens, Son tokens especially since those have no alternative besides their main activity currently. 

Vaults are already a loot cave for Deimos resources and they seem to have less variety than other bounties (though I haven't done many yet so maybe they do). 

[Kingsmount]

Requirements to get tokens are WAY too high.   Daughter is almost okay but needs maybe a 15% tuning down. 

Son needs a massive tuning down.  Capture / Tranqing was one of my favorite things to do in Plains and Vallis because it felt rewarding.  It doesn't feel rewarding here anymore because of the high costs of Son tokens.   It's absurd.  ONE capture in Vallis or Plains can be as much as over 3,000 standing.  That'd be equivalent to SIX Son tokens.  Yet one son token could require SIX to TWELVE+ captures here?  WTF.

 

Father also around 15%, but specifically the Scintillant requirements are absurd bonkers bad.  There should never be more than 3 scintillant requirements per TWO tokens given let alone two for two or 3 tokens for SIX scintillant.  All my bounties and I've only found ONE so far. 

[motorfirebox]

Son tokens are WAAAAAY too expensive, relative to other tokens. Some examples from the current offerings: 8 common avichea tags (which you can't even start hunting until rank 3), plus 4 vizier predasite tags, for a SINGLE token. 8 burrowing cryptilex and 4 common avichea tags for, again, a SINGLE token. 6 common avichea tags and 6 vizier predasite tags for, you guessed it, ONE SINGLE token.

Each of those tags takes 3-5 minutes to acquire if you know exactly what you're doing and you don't get interrupted by mobs. And like I said, you can't even acquire half those tags until you're already rank 3 or higher. That means you're spending half an hour or more to per token if you can even acquire them in the first place.

[motorfirebox]

8 hours ago, ReadyPlayerSix said:

Dang, everyone is so angry LOL. It almost seems as though people want to /not participate in activities/ and still get rewards! 
 

Here's the thing: no one is *forcing* you to do anything in this game. If you don't like it, then simply don't do it. Warframe is a game full of different content, no one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to rank up with the new syndicate. 
 

I, for one, enjoy conservation, mining and fishing and I love the token system. Maybe now people won't be rushing through the ranks and will actually have time to really explore Deimos and get the chance to really feel out the environment and vibe. You don't NEED to be the first to reach max rank, you don't NEED your nekramech tomorrow and things don't NEED to change just because a small part of the community is lazy and impatient. Deal with it or just don't play, and for the love of God, let people enjoy this update in peace. Your edgy complaining isn't benefitting anybody right now. 

This thread was specifically made so that DE could hear people's complaints about the economy. So... don't do the exact thing that DE is actively asking us to do?

[TheSpad]

Don't do this, just don't. It's not fun and it's not reasonable. It's bad enough that I have to carefully check whether it's more efficient to trade for 1/2/3/4/5 tokens because the costs are all over the place without making the prices for the same number of tokens with the same materials different.

[IamLoco]

Feedback:

- The whole design of the world is absolutely amazing, I love it. The 2 giant day-night worms are fantastic!

- Getting tokens instead of direct standing is great, so you don´t have to stop playing bounties after the daily cap is reached. Good!

- Trading tokens for tokens (grandmother...) feels bad and tedious. Also grandmother´s prices are way out of proportion.

- Conservation is probably THE worst feature in the whole game, I haven´t met anyone who likes this system. It´s buggy, costs a lot of time and most of the time it´s just trial&error. I personally HATE fiddling around with a truckload of different devices to MAYBE lure a wild animal. Shooting them randomly in the wilderness feels OK, though. I will not play the conservation game, I will NOT play it.

- "Sister" feels completely weird and somehow kills the atmosphere for me. Her stupid glasses look completely ridiculous and misplaced, they just don´t fit into the lore and environment. Same for her AirPods with her musicplayer. If this was supposed to be funny, it´s not. It´s rather embarrassing. Her voice makes me mute my PC.

 

 

[Salenstormwing]

My problem with the token system is it feels like delaying rewards. I can buy various rep items from Ticker in Fortuna with either credits, minerals. I can then trade those items straight back to him for stuff and rep. If I go to Smokefinger, I can give him rocks and he gives me rep right away. If I want to do bounties for Eudico, I just go out and get faction rep and rep tokens I can trade back to Ticker or Eudico. And in Cetus, I can give rocks or fish directly to the people who I want to give them to and they give me rep right away. I can deal with one person and get rep from them without dealing with others.

 

But if I want to get tokens from the various Deimos characters, I have to go there and trade them whatever they want for whatever they'll give me. And THEN I have to go to Grandmother to exchange those tokens for rep or I can exchange those tokens for more valuable tokens and then trade those tokens back to Grandmother for a bonus to rep. Yeah, the token system allows you to not go past your rep cap on accident, but instead it feels like it's "Okay, here is some stuff. If you want rep, go over there and MAYBE you can trade in these tokens for rep for a good price. But if you want the good price, you gotta collect X number of (Person) Tokens and Y number of (Other Person) Tokens and maybe a few (SOMEONE ELSE) Tokens and then I'll give you these Tokens.... and do you want to use those tokens to buy new items for your ORBITER? Well those cost a **** load of Grandma Tokens, so you better get working for everyone else".

 

Does no one see how bad this design is? Does it solve losing Rep by accidentally overplaying: YES. Does it solve it by making it unnaturally more frustrating to get Rep: YES.

I'm not saying the system is bad, but for Lotus sake, let me trade in tokens back to the person who gave them to me. I have 15 Mom tokens. Let me give them back to her in exchange for rep. Don't make me go see Grandmother. Oh what, she wants 5 Father Tokens and 5 Mother Tokens for a Grandmother token worth 15 base tokens? Great, now I gotta go farm his stuff. Let me go see what he wants. Oh look, once I get his tokens, I can go back to Grandmother. Oh wait, her inventory changed since you were gone farming stuff to give him for his tokens? Well you could always trade them back to him for rep... oh no, you STILL got to go see Grandmother if you want to trade those tokens in. How about if I mine stuff instead. Sure, trade in stuff for MORE TOKENS. Guess who wants those tokens for Rep? Granny. Why can't I just give people stuff I want for Rep right away? Why am I doing all thise haggling for this and that from every single one of these half-infested morons who deserve nothing more than to see what a Ignis Wraith does to them because they'd rather each have company currency they deal in individually and the only one that seems to take their stupid money is the COMPANY STORE???"

This is busy-work. This is not fun. This is literally Company Scrip: The Video Game and I don't like it.

 

Easy fix here. Let me trade tokens to the person they belong to. Let me trade in stuff for rep directly OR tokens. Either lower the requirements for rep/tokens, or increase what you earn. I already have grown to hate PoE and Fortuna... This just feels like doubling down on the worst parts of them for this new setting.

 

[bradbury2k2]

Tokens overcomplicate unneccessary the game. It's like having 5 little duck/onko in a map. It's a tax to slow down standings progress giving the impressions of achieving nothing at the completition of bounties. You do bounties to take a currency to buy standins to buy tokens to access part of the game...

I just want to play the game.

[Xylena_Lazarow]

1 hour ago, motorfirebox said:

It almost seems as though people want to /not participate in activities/ and still get rewards!

I do not want to participate in MMO minigames. I would like to progress through the game via core WF combat activities. Games should not feel like chores.

[JackTheRedCreeper]

I like the token approach. However, getting them feels... wrong. Aside from mother, everyone else demands you arbitrary amounts for their tokens. Daughter is easy enough, just go fishing and turn in a ton of fish to power through. This, however, feels silly; you might aswell just skip the middle point and turn fish into tokens.

Son is the bigger aggravator. Conservation takes forever and he demands a ton of it for a token. This isn't Big Foot Hunters, this is Warframe. I'm here to blast stuff up with my Grattler and my Tonkor when it runs out of ammo, not sneak up on dogs. Conservation, Fishing, Mining and similar open world tasks are NOT part of Warframe's core. They shouldn't be forced like this. And in the end, it has the same silly issue as Daughter: If you're going to trade X raw resource for Y raw resource, into Z token... then just skip Y resource.

And please, at least make it so the tokens don't have random prices to them. It feels like we have to check around for the "best deal" but in the end I end up just saying "f it" and buying blindly, because that 1-2 resource difference isn't going to do anything if it's demanding 10 of it.

Also for the love of god, can you tone down Son's commentary? His berating when I'm busy doing a bounty and accidentally kill a bug I didn't even know was around only makes me wanna side with Vay Hek to bring a Fomore and blow the place up.

[Mr.Holyroller]

The road to getting 20 grandmother tokens just for one part of the 2 new weapons is too arduous

[CuChulainnWD]

Is it me or are others finding the Sintilla drops from the bounty tables to not be dropping, if at all? The RNG on them seems very very tight.

[motorfirebox]

1 minute ago, CuChulainnWD said:

Is it me or are others finding the Sintilla drops from the bounty tables to not be dropping, if at all? The RNG on them seems very very tight.

Agreed, it seems really hard to acquire so far.

[stargazer999]

Coming to this i was hyped, First major expansion since Fortuna However, This is utter garbage, shame because we really want to enjoy it & overlook the problems, bugs we know they're going to be loads of them and we can accept it But this has sh!t written all over it, it's seems DE is making more grind than content these days, Kiva lich, empyrean & now this all with crunching grind, gone the good old days folks and i know it's not DE fault, it's the chinese behind it, i've played many chinese MMOs and Warframe is becoming one of them

PS: chances this message will be deleted or might get banned for misspoking of China (not DE we love you guys)

[.LeiA._]

Please, please, just please, decrease the time needed for excavating/defending things on Cambrion Drift. We've too many things to farm to exchange for the tokens. And please add new mission-type there, not defending anymore. I thought Heart of Deimos missions will be better than Orb Vallis or Plain of Eidolons missions; but it isn't. I expecting new missions but not the defending with too much wasted time. 

Please, DE, I'm trying hard to love this game again.

[JackTheRedCreeper]

To be fair it hasn't even been up for 24 hours

[(XBOX)Hyperion Rexx]

Remove conservation as a forced activity.

A large chunk of players have never liked this activity.

Give us options on how to rank up that actually involves playing warframe - i.e. killing bad guys.  That's the part of the game everyone enjoys.

Fishing, mining and especially conservation are niche activities that are liked by a few, tolerated by some, and down right disliked and avoided whenever possible by many.

Give us options - you claim this is important whenever you nerf something.  You can't then railroad players into an activity that is disliked by so many if you expect to be taken seriously next time you nerf something using options/diversity as an excuse.

[mouseodoom]

I too dislike conservation and am displeased I have to do it in order to get my Helminth segment. I would rather do anything in Warframe other than conservation. 10 son tokens for Associate with the Entrati is not very fun. 

[Lokidus_Prime]

The token system is an interesting idea that I think could work, with a few adjustments.  This system provides a means to run bounties as much or as little as you want without any standing going to waste since you can save the tokens for future use.  Mother and Father are fine when it comes to acquiring their tokens imo, but Son and Daughter need some serious tweaks.  Conservation animal captures should reward Son Tokens, to be more in line with how OV/PoE reward standing for captures.  This could also give an actual reason to try and get better captures, since presently there is none.  Similarly, Daughter should have an option to turn in fish for Tokens.  Conservation should have stayed as a more optional side-activity like it is with OV/PoE.  Requiring some fish parts for ranking up and such I don't see to be as much of an issue since it seems you can acquire them in other ways besides fishing - namely, smashing containers and stuff around Cambion Drift.

As side notes, it would be nice if mining nodes, the color animals flash when view through tranq rifle scope, and foot print colors were adjusted to something that stands out better against the landscape in Cambion Drift.  It feels like these things blend in very well and are generally much more difficult to spot compared to the other open world areas.  There are also some issues with mining nodes and animal spawns being stuck inside terrain that need to be addressed.

[(PSN)Paholanani_X]

Man.... Take son out of the mix. The tranquilizer shindig is absolutely horrible on this world due to all the plethora of level elevations. Or atleast make the animal a marked target like a capture target.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

Overall enjoying HoD. Stuff that I really hate and hope gets fixed:

• Son Token acquisition;
• Scintillant acquisition;
• Latrox Une Bounty stage, Collect samples - I don't know if me and my PUG teams are just stooges, but he never sends those samples fast enough. The extra objective always fails and on the same marks. Except on solo mode, when the amount of samples to send is smaller. This seems more predetermined than something players can control.

Stuff I don't really hate but should be improved

• Mining spots visibility and the fact that the dots aren't usually visible/on the same surface.
• Velocipods - When I strike them with Ivara's sleep I can't retrieve them, only ride them as they get stuck in their spot.
• Isolation Vault: Absolutely love a good loot cave! I recommend creating alternative Isolation Vault bounties and tasks for better diversity. Also, different tiers with different difficulties and rewards, I'd love a good expansion on this whole section. Also apply it to other open worlds in some way.
• Bounty stages where we uncover and open caches should have them drop resources for us to pick it up. A bit lackluster to work to open them up and see them empty. I am aware of the bounty stage reward, not enough in terms of reward feel.
• Love the endless bounties. Maybe make them available for all stages on a permanent basis? I suggest creating a separate bounty category like you did for Isolation Chamber, just for endless instances. Also, apply the endless mode to other open worlds.
• More variety in Bounty stage locations - Sigh, I'd love to have part of the bounty to occur in sites like Catabolic Gutter or some of the larger caves.

[Brynslustafir]

The token system with the new syndicate is needlessly convoluted. It's a bad choice for a grind-heavy game. Keep it simple.

[Lady_Khaos]

 I see the intent of the token system. However, the result is just a clunky mess of excessive steps, inconsistent values placed on resources, and abysmal Standing payouts for the amount of effort (considering you have to over farm since you don't know how much you will need). Feels like someone left a zero off of the ends of them.

Also, the bonus for saving up to convert to the super tokens just feels like a slap in the face as you further waste player time. Could have tied those tokens to something else and raised the value of the individual tokens instead.

Deimos is cool. I like the setting. I look forward to uncovering the lore and secret mechanics. However, not only have you once again failed to learn from the mistakes of the past open worlds, you actively made the most tedious rep grind yet. How did you not only ignore the previous feedback, but directly make a rep system that removed all of the reliable ways the previous systems had? Completing bounties and animal captures in the other open worlds just grants standing directly. Here, we get either tokens or worse, PIECES OF A TOKEN. Which we then have to go through the process of turning in for standing at a completely different NPC. 

 

Every new thing you guys add is further proof you have zero care or respect for player time. We are tired of the commitment Warframe keeps demanding. Many of us want to come home from work and relax, not feel like we are logging in to use what little free time we have as a second job.

[Karasokami]

Overall I really like the system, but I have two big critiscisms.

First: Grandmothers prizes are way too high. 6 Son tokens for a single Lamp. When I saw thoose lamps I knew I want them all across my Orbiter. I would need alteast 20 for that. And I really don't think  conservation has that long term motivation. It's fun for 1-3 Runs, after that it's just tedious.

Second: Grandmother again, why are here offerings timed exclusive? That makes no sense, just make it gated by Standing and let it be. I dont want to grind for something just to know I can't buy it because I missed a Timer.

Just give as a tool to trade mothert tokens for other tokens, like 10 Mother tokens for one Son/Daughter Token and vice versa

 

EDIT: The ressources you need to give Mother to level up are also way to high