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Why the orokin died (spoilers)


(XBOX)CI shadow2397

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So unless you haven’t been paying attention we have recently been discovering some very important technology in the origin system. Powerful tech that can change the tide of a war. And where do the orokin keep all this? Buried deep within backwater planets. Tenno: put in pods below lua which isn’t very stable. Heart of Deimos: put in a cave of an completely infested moon run by a dysfunctional family. Rail jack: this isn’t as bad because it was crashed but it was on Europa, Ceres mars and Venus The traditionally most inhospitable places in the system. And finally they put all thier bases in some ooga Booga dimension they didn’t completely understand that is run by some creepy eldrich prankster who like to make people go insane. 

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The Orokin caste died because the tenno killed their leadership, then hunted down most of the orokin who had survived the war; freeing the slaves and under-citizens as a side effect.

Cited by Stalker and Grendal lore.

Deimos didn't use to be infested, it's returned to 'real-space' because the infestation is breaking its systems.

And I doubt mechs only existed there.

Not to mention, if it was hit, then the organics would lose all FTL and tenno, so hiding it in a place where sentients can't see/enter seems a smart idea.

Cited Start of quest: Loid

The Lotus put the tenno in the pods, after killing the orokin, probably to stop what happened to Rell happening to others; because while she didn't know about Rell, she admits she knew exactly what he was talking about and that it wasn't delusions.

Cited Second Dream: Lotus.

Not sure you could call the towers bases, but either way, they're almost the only things still fully working, even if the one on Earth has ... changed.

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21 minutes ago, (XB1)CI shadow2397 said:

. Tenno: put in pods below lua which isn’t very stable.

Lua is only unstable because of the events of the second dream. being shoved into the void then ripped back out isn't good for it.

22 minutes ago, (XB1)CI shadow2397 said:

Tenno: put in pods below lua which isn’t very stable. Heart of Deimos: put in a cave of an completely infested moon run by a dysfunctional family.

the Entrati were the one who made the heart, of course they'd have it. they also weren't always infested, them becoming infested is very recent, most likely after the fall of the orokin.

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7 minutes ago, TheArcSet said:

The Orokin caste died because the tenno killed their leadership, then hunted down most of the orokin who had survived the war; freeing the slaves and under-citizens as a side effect.

Cited by Stalker and Grendal lore.

Deimos didn't use to be infested, it's returned to 'real-space' because the infestation is breaking its systems.

Cited Start of quest Quest: Loid

The Lotus put the tenno in pod, after killing the orokin, probably to stop what happened to Rell happening to others; because while she didn't know about Rell, she admits she knew exactly what he was talking about and that it wasn't delusions.

Cited Second Dream: Lotus.

 

A lot of Orokin Tech was also Gene-Locked, aka you needed to have specific artaficially inserted Orokin Genes in order for things to activate. This is discussed in the Lancer Template thinger from Simaris, where a surviving orokin of considerable rank was held prisoner by the newly liberated grineer, who needed them to fly the ship, because it literally would not respond to anyone who was not of Orokin genetics or augmentation.

Kinda like the "Ancient Gene" in Stargate Atlantis, being needed to operate Atlantean Tech.

Anyway, with most of the population that was Orokin-Enough to operate their more advanced tech, now dead after mysteriously all falling onto a skana while in their space-showers... of course the empire fragmented and reassembled into different blocs who developed their own tech, free from Orokin Gene locks.

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3 minutes ago, Sixes_Wild said:

A lot of Orokin Tech was also Gene-Locked,  ... This is discussed in the Lancer Template thinger from Simaris.

Kinda like the "Ancient Gene" in Stargate Atlantis, being needed to operate Atlantean Tech.

A very good point about why so much of the empire was lost with its rulers.

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From my understanding, three things in Warframe contain "oro" something akin to a soul in Warframe's universe. Unfortunately most of this comes from Conclave, which is not often played.

Tenno

Sentients

and the Orokin

It's important to note, the difference between being a Orokin, and being in the Orokin empire. It seems to suggest Orokin used Continuity to swap to a different body when theirs became unusable, damaged or old. This "Continuity" seems to grant the Orokin this "soul" and even if the body is killed, they can be given new flesh, hence why the Worm Queen is collecting Kuva, to bring her Elder sister back.

Among this, Tenno and Sentients are the only ones capable of absorbing oro. Hence why the Sentient were a threat, conventional means they could survive. Like when Ordan Karris attempted to cut down a room of Orokin, only for the surviving members to laugh at how his methods did basically nothing.

This helps to explain the Lotus's pain over the loss of the original Mirage by a massive Sentient. The Oro was absorbed and could not be revived.

The reason the Tenno were able to destroy the Orokin was because they could absorb oro, a way of confirming their death. The Orokin had their guard down, and that was their mistake.

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28 minutes ago, (XB1)CI shadow2397 said:

Powerful tech that can change the tide of a war. 

The Orokin couldn't use it. Sentients have a special ability, not named I'm the lore, but what I will call Hi-Tech Hijack

Anything too advanced would just get hijacked and sent back against the Orokin. Everything had to be either have a Void-based component in it (Railjacks, Warframes), or be biological (Infested), or just be super simple so the Sentients couldn't jack it (Latrons, Necramechs, Corrupted)

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improper storage of godlike tech is one thing, but IMO, the Orokin's fate was sealed once they started acting like d1cks and treating everyone like trash. Grendel's Leverian and Eviscerator Synthesis Lore are Prime (pun intended) examples of Orokin douchebaggery. even Son/Kermerros say that the orokin downfall was deserved because "our time had more than come". and he always struck me as the most "Orokin" of the Entrati in that sense, especially when you consider it was his infested samples that caused the outbreak on Deimos to begin with. so if *he* thinks the Orokin had it coming, then yeah, they REALLY, genuinely, 100% deserved what they got. they would have been some of the most self-absorbed, vile creatures to ever draw breath, and the worst part is, they wouldn't die, until we saw to it ourselves.

literally all of warframe's factions are a direct result of, or are in relation to, an Orokin mistake. marvelous., isn't it?

 

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5 hours ago, (XB1)CI shadow2397 said:

Tenno: put in pods below lua which isn’t very stable.

Lua was fine during the time of the Orokin, and was the seat of their power. There was quite likely no better place for the Reservoir than Lua.

5 hours ago, (XB1)CI shadow2397 said:

Heart of Deimos: put in a cave of an completely infested moon run by a dysfunctional family.

The Entrati created the Heart, so obviously they'd still be in control of it. It was Albrecht's descendants that later became dysfunctional, and much of that was due to their situation. Deimos wasn't Infested at the time – that happened later.

5 hours ago, (XB1)CI shadow2397 said:

Rail jack: this isn’t as bad because it was crashed but it was on Europa, Ceres mars and Venus The traditionally most inhospitable places in the system.

The Railjack ships crashed. You even said it. They weren't intended to be stored on those planets for good. They were lost in battle and fell where they fell. Also, Mars and Europa are fairly habitable compared to the other bodies in the solar system.

5 hours ago, (XB1)CI shadow2397 said:

And finally they put all thier bases in some ooga Booga dimension they didn’t completely understand that is run by some creepy eldrich prankster who like to make people go insane.

Many of the Orokin Towers translated to the Void during the Collapse in order to preserve the Orokin within (which didn't work). They didn't just hang out in the Void full-time. And the Orokin did not know about the Man in the Wall.

5 hours ago, Miser_able said:

Lua is only unstable because of the events of the second dream. being shoved into the void then ripped back out isn't good for it.

The transitions to and from the Void were quite traumatic for Lua, but if you watch the Erra quest cinematic, you'll note that Lua was shattered before Lotus ever put it into the Void. Presumably this was due to the Old War, as we see Lua under attack at that moment by large numbers of Sentient forces.

5 hours ago, Sixes_Wild said:

A lot of Orokin Tech was also Gene-Locked, aka you needed to have specific artaficially inserted Orokin Genes in order for things to activate. This is discussed in the Lancer Template thinger from Simaris, where a surviving orokin of considerable rank was held prisoner by the newly liberated grineer, who needed them to fly the ship, because it literally would not respond to anyone who was not of Orokin genetics or augmentation.

Quick correction; the entry you're discussing is the "Guardsman" entry, not "Lancer". The gene-locks are also discussed in the "Arid Eviscerator" entry, which chronologically precedes "Guardsman."

5 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Sentients have a special ability, not named I'm the lore, but what I will call Hi-Tech Hijack

Father calls it the "Sentient pulse" when describing the Necramechs.

5 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Everything had to be either have a Void-based component in it (Railjacks, Warframes), or be biological (Infested), or just be super simple so the Sentients couldn't jack it (Latrons, Necramechs, Corrupted)

Per Father's dialogue, Necramechs would fall into your first category. He describes them as "Void-shielded".

5 hours ago, Askell91 said:

I would realy love it if we had actual lore/story pages in the codex not just stiched together notes. I would just sit and read it tbh.

You may appreciate my website, the Orokin Archives. Its ultimate goal is to synthesise all the lore elements we have into a coherent story. It also serves as a repository for all the source material – all transcripts, dialogue lines, Codex entries, etc. It's still a work in progress. Here's my writeup on the Orokin and the Old War (slightly out of date, as it does not contain any information on the Entrati): https://www.orokinarchives.com/discussion-timeline-orokin-old-war/

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1 hour ago, GrayArchon said:

Lua was fine during the time of the Orokin, and was the seat of their power. There was quite likely no better place for the Reservoir than Lua.

The Entrati created the Heart, so obviously they'd still be in control of it. It was Albrecht's descendants that later became dysfunctional, and much of that was due to their situation. Deimos wasn't Infested at the time – that happened later.

The Railjack ships crashed. You even said it. They weren't intended to be stored on those planets for good. They were lost in battle and fell where they fell. Also, Mars and Europa are fairly habitable compared to the other bodies in the solar system.

Many of the Orokin Towers translated to the Void during the Collapse in order to preserve the Orokin within (which didn't work). They didn't just hang out in the Void full-time. And the Orokin did not know about the Man in the Wall.

The transitions to and from the Void were quite traumatic for Lua, but if you watch the Erra quest cinematic, you'll note that Lua was shattered before Lotus ever put it into the Void. Presumably this was due to the Old War, as we see Lua under attack at that moment by large numbers of Sentient forces.

Quick correction; the entry you're discussing is the "Guardsman" entry, not "Lancer". The gene-locks are also discussed in the "Arid Eviscerator" entry, which chronologically precedes "Guardsman."

Father calls it the "Sentient pulse" when describing the Necramechs.

Per Father's dialogue, Necramechs would fall into your first category. He describes them as "Void-shielded".

You may appreciate my website, the Orokin Archives. Its ultimate goal is to synthesise all the lore elements we have into a coherent story. It also serves as a repository for all the source material – all transcripts, dialogue lines, Codex entries, etc. It's still a work in progress. Here's my writeup on the Orokin and the Old War (slightly out of date, as it does not contain any information on the Entrati): https://www.orokinarchives.com/discussion-timeline-orokin-old-war/

Yeah I realized that it should have read Guardsman, not Lancer.. that one was about the grineer worker surviving an encounter with a sentient.  Anyway, it popped into my mind after i got up and left the computer :P

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4 hours ago, Aldain said:

Hubris is the only right answer.

Arrogance is also a close answer.

Super powered immortal void entities that felt abused partnering with living weapons of mass destruction that were tortured while the ruling Orokin class mocked them during an ongoing war with sentient mega machines that could control advanced technology is more accurate.

10 hours ago, (XB1)CI shadow2397 said:

So unless you haven’t been paying attention we have recently been discovering some very important technology in the origin system. Powerful tech that can change the tide of a war. And where do the orokin keep all this? Buried deep within backwater planets. Tenno: put in pods below lua which isn’t very stable. Heart of Deimos: put in a cave of an completely infested moon run by a dysfunctional family. Rail jack: this isn’t as bad because it was crashed but it was on Europa, Ceres mars and Venus The traditionally most inhospitable places in the system. And finally they put all thier bases in some ooga Booga dimension they didn’t completely understand that is run by some creepy eldrich prankster who like to make people go insane. 

As to the OPs points , stuff didn't happen in an instant,

Lua wasn't always unstable, the shifting to void was Margulis/Lotus trying to take the Tenno out of the war (for various reasons).

Deimos was an orokin research station originally for understanding the void, it was not infested, but if a month old salad with genocidal intent is bad , imagine something that's more than a few hundred years old. There was no infestation originally but probably in some past event (in the old war) it got out and took over deimos. The research station was in the void for as long as the tenno were asleep to avoid attention from the sentients, it only came out now because the infestation managed to get into the sanctum threatening all void tech.

Discovery of Void: Led to the Void advances including FTL and continuity , orokin dominance was relatively new.

Deimos being just like Lua : Orokin dominance has been active for some time - it was rather stable and relatively pristine.

Deimos starting to become infested, Lua being shifted to void: Old war time - stuff was starting to break down this was more than hundreds of years ago,

Deimos Nechralisk getting infested, Lua getting out of the void: Current time - there may even be a relation between Lua and Deimos both appearing together (kinda).

 

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6 hours ago, GrayArchon said:

You may appreciate my website, the Orokin Archives. Its ultimate goal is to synthesise all the lore elements we have into a coherent story. It also serves as a repository for all the source material – all transcripts, dialogue lines, Codex entries, etc. It's still a work in progress. Here's my writeup on the Orokin and the Old War (slightly out of date, as it does not contain any information on the Entrati): https://www.orokinarchives.com/discussion-timeline-orokin-old-war/

Have you tried posting your attempt of simplifying the lore of The Orokin in the fan section? That may attract useful attention to keep the thread alive.

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vor einer Stunde schrieb Swagernator22663:

They died because they were THE most horrible people ever existed in the history of everything, and THE most good tenno saved EVERYONE when they rebelled against them.

Me looking over to the tennos who killed a whole empire and is now killing billions of soldiers just to get stronger, so that they can kill more soldiers.

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52 minutes ago, ES-Flinter said:

Me looking over to the tennos who killed a whole empire and is now killing billions of soldiers just to get stronger, so that they can kill more soldiers.

'Good' as a term is somewhat relative.

Batman beats the everloving S*** out of criminals, and is willing to endanger himself and to some degree others in order to clean up his city. The Straw Hats from One Piece are unequivocally considered heroic, but don't actually have the slightest qualm about assassinating the heads of sovereign nations in order to successfully claim a treasure strictly for their own benefit. Even Luke Skywalker - well, people like to forget that most the people who worked on the Death Star had families. Quite possibly ones that relied on that person to feed and support them, due to the very reasons the Rebellion exists in the first place (widespread poverty and corruption)

 

In the same way most people in the Warframe universe acknowledge that the Orokin were at least morally bankrupt - outside of places like Cetus perhaps, who have a warped view thanks to the Unum. They'd also therefore consider that the Grineer and Corpus are at worst on par, and most colonial civilians would consider the Tenno a much more morally virtuous group than the Orokin. These people weren't directly mind controlled by the Lotus - they looked at the Tenno's actions and said 'yes, these are good people'.

If we are the moral standpoint for this universe, then that should put in perspective just how bad the rest of it is.

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