Update 29.10.0: Railjack Intrinsics 2.0 Feedback Megathread (Read First Post!)

[Erwing]

Would it be at all possible to have, either as a core functionality or as an intrinsic under Engineering, something to allow remote use of the forge through, say, the tactical menu?

 

In addition, my maximum ammo, particularly for dome charges, prior to this update, were 5 and I would gain +2 current ammo every time I crafted more at the forge. After the update, I start at 2 maximum dome charges and gain +1 maximum and fully restock the ammo every time I craft more at the forge. (I.E. I have 2, shoot them, go back to the forge to craft 1, and have 3/3 after crafting).

 

So two-parter: It probably should not be increasing the maximum and fully restocking like this, but also, when you fix this, please bring back a higher ammo maximum and the 2 dome charges per craft, at least. As it stands, the artillery ammo conservation mod is already basically required. It is WAY too tedious and fiddly as-is. Adding some way to remotely use the forge would help a lot, as would bringing back the higher starting count and amount restored per craft.

 

EDIT: I believe the ammo maximums and crafting amounts used to be upgraded through the Engineering intrinsic, and those nodes were replaced without compensating for the losses. Perhaps this is where the disconnect between pre- and post- update ammo amounts and forge crafting amounts lie. I believe I also had about 300 Revolite before the update, and now seem to have only 100, which makes repairing things much more tedious, too.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Erwing

[Klokwerkaos]

Fix Gunnery 10.  I can purchase it with everything else maxed and I won't because it's bad.  Stop it.  This was a bad decision.  Whoever made this call made a bad call and very much should feel bad about it.  Why?  Because we told you it was bad beforehand and you did it anyway.  Stop it.  I am legit reprimanding DE for this bad decision.  STOP MAKING BAD DECISIONS.  

At this point though... why do I even say that?  It's painfully clear that DE doesn't listen about these kinds of things as a matter of pattern behavior and is borderline allergic to making things work the way they should in a piece of content until three years after the content island is declared dead (see PoE, Fortuna, Liches, etc. that have all been since revamped years later to be what they should have been on launch in regards to system design, not necessarily feature richness).

Edited March 24, 2021 by Klokwerkaos

[syl42]

I would hope the Command intrinsic would give more meaningful bonus. +1 merc, +1 skill point, respec?... meh.

The only levels that stand out are the lich and on call. But the lich can't do much right now (defender) and it seems you can't swap weapon?

[mikakor]

make Gunnery Rank 10 being able to use Forward Artillery from pilot seat. that's what it should have been since day one... then i would even be ready to take on a 50 per cent more heat 

[taiiat]

just let us be able to remove Intrinsic Perks if we decide we don't want them, or something.

like a better version of Focus, perhaps? on Focus we can buy stuff but turn it off if we don't want it. and then for Intrinsics if you can turn Perks off without having a pre-requisite chain, then that solves any problems with Intrinsics going forwards. if someone dislikes having a particular Perk for whatever reason, they could just turn it off for themselves.

[LillyRaccune]

Feedback: I don't like Gunnery #4 govenering my archwing melee attraction range. Since the update, I feel like it is harder to connect my Prisma Veritux with targets (both archwing enemies and railjack fighters).

 

Unrelated suggestion: I was thinking it would be nice if every intrinisic school had something similar to Command #9. Just like being able to summon crew members outside of railjack missions.

• Gunnery #9 would allow us to summon a stationary Rampart.

I don't know what to suggest for Pilot #9, Engineering #9, and Tactical #9. Just a crazy idea.

[continue]

Hi DE, this is posted in your Trello:

Quote

We have shared the feedback with Dev about the Heat accretion in Rank 10 Gunner. With the way the new 'Flush Heat Sinks' perk on Rank 9 works + this heat accretion is something we want players to try over the weekend before we change.

However, without a way to disable Intrinsic perks, there's a disincentive to actually try out Rank 10 Gunner because once you enable it you can't disable it. Having an option to disable Intrinsic perks would both be a nice QOL change and enable better testing of and feedback for the perks.

[sorcer3r]

How to make archwing fun? ->  Gunner 10:   Railjack turrets auto-fire on target at which you are firing with your archgun 😎

[Cerikus]

Reaction to Devstream statement by Scott.

I agree that if Gunnery 10 is basically aimbot now, it's fine to trade it for faster overheat.

BUT

It must be something we can enable and disable. I will NEVER upgrade to Gunnery 10, if there is not a possiblity to disable it.

What if I don't like it? I would be stuck with something I hate forever.

And I DO mostly aim while shooting btw, so the argument of "it doesn't happen if you don't aim" is invalid.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Cerikus

[Sammonoske]

"Aimbot is OP, so it needed a downside."

Then why have aimbot.... It's not even really aimbot. It's snap to target for .5 seconds and that's it.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

DE seems to think that exponentially scaling costs is the best way to design progression tiers.  It's an awful choice and extremely anti-player, but they have designed half the game like this.  They completely ignore that it means the very last rank is very literally half the work.  Yet half the work for the gunnery tree gives you a permanent, non-toggleable downgrade with the increase to heat accretion.  Not only does this hurt M/KB players (which can be used on xbox.) that don't need the assist, but aim assist is a whole different argument entirely for controllers.  

First off, aim assist in general is usually a detriment in my opinion, and I turn it off in every game I play that has it.  Very rarely it will actually help me out, usually when an enemy is behind cover and it automatically pulls my reticle out when they peek.  This isn't that kind of game.  9 times out of 10 if I notice aim assist in a game while using a controller it's because it's forcibly pulling my reticle away from where I want it to an enemy I wasn't trying to shoot.  Which is why I turn it off, personally.  For people with trouble aiming for any number of reasons, from being lower skilled or having a disability, aim assist can be an accessibility feature though.  Things that are active detriments to many players, useless to many more and accessibility options for those that need them should be baseline options in the menus, not unlocked rewards at the top end of progression that requires half the work of a skill tree branch to acquire.  The fact that this aim assist is more aggressive and lasts longer than an accessibility option is not lost on me.  I just don't care because it's still a crappy rank 10 unlock.  The fact that QOL and basic functionality seem to be things that DE thinks should be locked behind grind rather than basic options is also not lost on me.

When you combine locking something like aim assist behind literally half the grind of a branch of the skill tree with the fact that it now increases heat accretion AND cannot be toggled off (so we can't just "try it and see if you like it"), it makes the entire rank something that many want to avoid.

This Intrinsic rank wasn't good to start with.  You buffed it a little, still leaving it as the same crappy rank reward, and decided that despite it obviously needing a buff you couldn't just put out a buff.  So you monkey's pawed us and nerfed it while you buffed it and made it worse.  

[Lambey]

After discovering and reporting an exploit with the rank 3 tactical on-board fast travel, I have found that my gameplay experience was much more interesting and swifter when I was able to immediately teleport back to the railjack rather than waiting for a timer to count down. I believe that if the omni recall timer was shortened(or perhaps removed) returning to the railjack would grant the players more maneuverability, shortening the time it takes for players to rejoin their crew and focus on the next objective. Since every second counts in these kinds of missions, a faster omni recall would remove the unnecessary waiting that every player has to endure within objectives.

[ErikaFurudo]

I think this is an oversight rather than a bug but when use/reload option is used with a controller the rank 9 Gunnery skill "Flush Heat Sinks" is unusable with a controller.

Could we get a controller binding option for it?

The use/reload mapping was generally solved at least 20 years ago in other games by having a push/hold to differentiate between the two, maybe something along those lines as a general solution would be useful? Might be nice for boarding the mech/not when hitting 5 as well.

[Kokomala]

The more I play around and think about it, the more I feel as though Flush Heat Sinks should be the rank 10 gunnery intrinsic. With the exception of the unreleased command rank 10, all of the other rank 10's are an active ability of some sort. Reflex Aim is useful, regardless of the heat or not, however making it available earlier in gunnery would greatly improve the experience of console players, of which it is my understanding that warframe's aim assist is rather poor for railjack.

What I would suggest is to make Reflex Aim rank 6 (reduce to 2s lead time), Cold Trigger to rank 9 (grants +1s to Reflex Aim lead time in addition to current 20% less heat), Flush Heat Sinks to rank 10.

[Wiz3rd]

Wasn't able to watch the devstream live, but after having caught up with the news, I'm really worried about all the "feedback collection" they've been doing.

What's the point of collecting feedback, if you're just gonna say "you're wrong, it's staying as is"..?

I'm really trying not to give up on this game, but god dammit are you making it hard for me with the hills you choose to die on...

[Thando]

On 2021-03-20 at 10:18 AM, TheBestAsbestos said:

Currently rank 9 in gunnery, flush heat sinks, doesn't function if you have context action to reload enabled. It only works as intended if you have a unique keybind for reload. I had to move around a bunch of bindings to make it work and remap my mouse. A hassle, but anyone using a controller likely wouldn't be able to make it work at all.

Just how this got through testing... *sigh*

Reload is NOT an option in RJ key bindings, which should have been obvious and expecting everyone to have a keyboard and use the default WASD setup, I thought we had moved past that these days.

Sincerely an ESDF player (hence banking is on W and R). ;)

[Stormdragon]

1 hour ago, Kokomala said:

The more I play around and think about it, the more I feel as though Flush Heat Sinks should be the rank 10 gunnery intrinsic. With the exception of the unreleased command rank 10, all of the other rank 10's are an active ability of some sort. Reflex Aim is useful, regardless of the heat or not, however making it available earlier in gunnery would greatly improve the experience of console players, of which it is my understanding that warframe's aim assist is rather poor for railjack.

What I would suggest is to make Reflex Aim rank 6 (reduce to 2s lead time), Cold Trigger to rank 9 (grants +1s to Reflex Aim lead time in addition to current 20% less heat), Flush Heat Sinks to rank 10.

I agree with gunnery rank 10 being useful for people playing with controllers and even for those with disabilities, because of that ot shouldn't be locked behind a grind of any sort and should be a toggle in settings instead (either tie it to "enable controller aim assist" or give it its own toggle). 

Aim assist can be a huge annoyance for people who can (and/or want) to aim manually, so putting it on a lower rank would only make the complaints against it even worse since then you'd be locking half a behind an unwanted feature instead of cutting only its last rank.

TLDR: If legal aimbot was added for accessibility reasons, then it should be a toggle in settings instead of an upgrade locked behind a grind; adding another reason to rework Gunnery 10 into something else that's actually useful for everyone and not just a group of players.

Edited March 27, 2021 by Stormdragon

[Vaml77]

The speeches of the captains corpus and cephalon cy are sometimes mixed or delayed generating confusion and excessive dialogue. If the ramsleds are coming why doesn't the cephalon cy say? Why do captains corpus give the hint? Wouldn't it be better to just create a brief introduction when the mission begins and then the cephalon cy will be the only one to speak? In the middle of the battle, both are confused because the voice seems to be from the same person. And the voice of cy and the captains are very similar ... if not the same!

[Erwing]

I've finished my intrinsic grind and "upgraded" to Gunnery 10, so I now feel qualified to speak on it where I opted to not chip in previously - I don't like it. The aim snapping really doesn't help that much (granted, on PC), and the extra heat is a pointless downside even if the rank 9 bonus makes it largely irrelevant. Compare this to Engineering where the rank 10 is an absolute game-changer. Compare this to rank 10 Piloting where it's not so much a game-changer, but at least it's a useful ability. Same for Tactical. Gunnery deserves something equally impactful

 

In my opinion, aim assist should be an option by default for controller players, and gunnery rank 10 should be scrapped entirely and replaced with something more impactful. The ability to use the artillery from the pilot/gunner seats would be appropriate, for example, and solve a problem that playing solo still has even with the new command intrinsic.

 

At the very least, ditch the heat penalty and make the aim snapping a toggle you can turn off so we can still get our mastery for maxing the intrinsic without dealing with the debuffs associated with it.

[Vaml77]

Maybe change the gunnery passive removing the heat thing and  use in pilot position for the artillary without leaving pilot position? ?

[Sahysa]

RE: Gunnery 10
Re: Devstream 153, Scott:

My problem with gunnery 10 is its an annoying, inconsistent, aim assist.  Its not auto hit and it does not activate/deactivate nicely. 
I have not had good results attempting to use it, especially from the pilot seat.  Most weapons have issues with the lead indicator especially in a high speed strafe.  For a demo of this, do a hard strafe maneuver and attempt to hit ram sleds in reverse firing at only the lead indicator.  (A+SHIFT+S+RMB+LMB)  It over leads in my experience.  Most enemies have this issue but its most notable on the ram sleds due to the speeds involved.  It might be less of an issue for gunners in a slower ship, but I haven't been able to extensively test it because I don't have/want an AI pilot.  Photors need to hit the physical model which seem to have a smaller cross section then the hit box used by slower projectiles.  Sometimes the autoaim point misses completely if the target is in maneuvers.  (I have not extensively tested every enemy)

The other problem reliability.  You must already have the target mostly centered before RMB will snap to it.  Also it sometimes does not snap at all on RMB, especially as pilot.  The snap does not seem to stick as long in pilot nor does it stick long enough in general to kill enemies.  There is no indication of when its going to let go, and when it does, you start missing automatically and have to reacquire manually.  The snap is also slightly disorienting because you have to figure out what you have targeted then prepare to take over when it stops working. 

Both of these problems are less pronounced in a turret, but I'll bet they will be noticeable if the pilot is dodging things and the weapon is not hit scan.
Both of these problems leave me discouraged to use it at all, as I never did pre-rework.  The heat malice is simply a foot note declaring that is the correct approach.

Compared to the other Level 10 intrinsics:

Tactical 10: Outbound Transporter.  Utility wise, it lets you skip 2 transitions, get to other tenno or objectives quickly and has great RP potential.  Changes the way you play if you let it.  (Why can't I beam to tenno in Core mission extraction?)

Pilot 10: Blink.  While its a short blink with a long CD, its a useful button that is fun to press.

Engineer 10: "I am Flynn."  If you have a Rank 10 engineer on your RJ, it cannot die.  Broken skill.  (I think the crew also can "tank" the RJ, so balanced.)

Command 10: ?Target: Maximum Fire Power?  Crew fires main gun?  Crew reloads your consumables?  Crew boards objective?  Honestly, even if it did this, it wouldn't target weak-spots on capitals or sub capitals and would be kinda a wash at end game, but better than nothing.

The above can change the way you play.  I can only call Gunnery 10 forming a bad habit.

TLDR:  I do not like using Gunnery 10 even ignoring the heat cost.  The heat cost is not the problem with Gunnery 10.  The problem with Gunnery 10 is it is not Peacemaker (auto hit, auto fire control) and is unsatisfying. 

 

Edited March 28, 2021 by Sahysa

[AvatarShine]

• Railjack huge cpu consume to heat, until -20% details and set to 1 particles
• rubbing paint ship not saved - also stay to 50% - it affects performance , also as default all have 50% and in party host load cpu other members
• join the squad can be infinity lock screen
• escape key can be locked for party members
• old mechanics that pick and stuck for time fallen necramechs instead itselft - you need change it form X to stuck 30second to X to revive like frame
• pilons at very bad positions and very long positions - cant navigate where is nearest orfix pilons or where is next - all reds spam points
• too long boring animation railjack in-out on X from gates to gates

 

• Need to show main revards at top of TAB  like "steal", drop parts of mission, "kuva" so you dont need press P-key-info and scroll down

Edited March 31, 2021 by AvatarShine

[ShadeOhNiner]

Someone mentioned an idea for making R10 gunnery a deployable rampart (Either modifiable or using one of your weapons as a stat-stick). Seems like it would at least be more fun than the auto-aim currently in that slot, if not more useful.

[Kanaima]

On 2021-03-27 at 4:50 PM, Erwing said:

I've finished my intrinsic grind and "upgraded" to Gunnery 10, so I now feel qualified to speak on it where I opted to not chip in previously - I don't like it. The aim snapping really doesn't help that much (granted, on PC), and the extra heat is a pointless downside even if the rank 9 bonus makes it largely irrelevant. Compare this to Engineering where the rank 10 is an absolute game-changer. Compare this to rank 10 Piloting where it's not so much a game-changer, but at least it's a useful ability. Same for Tactical. Gunnery deserves something equally impactful

 

In my opinion, aim assist should be an option by default for controller players, and gunnery rank 10 should be scrapped entirely and replaced with something more impactful. The ability to use the artillery from the pilot/gunner seats would be appropriate, for example, and solve a problem that playing solo still has even with the new command intrinsic.

 

At the very least, ditch the heat penalty and make the aim snapping a toggle you can turn off so we can still get our mastery for maxing the intrinsic without dealing with the debuffs associated with it.

I also caved and ranked mine up to full. To summarize how I feel about it: it could read "Permanently disables aim functionality." and it'd be effectively the same thing for me. The lock on time seems totally inconsistent and the tracking doesn't work well enough to account for non-hitscan weapons to the point I find I'm much more accurate manually aiming.

At this point the perk would be better to me if it was just increased heat accretion, at least then I'm only getting slapped with 1 negative instead of 2.

[Robisgreat10]

Intrinsics doesn’t work, I done 5 mission and didn’t get it...