Why I don't really enjoy Warframe anymore

[Silligoose]

3 minutes ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

What I said that was bs is his reasons for posting this here, even though I have issues with his vague criticisms, his reason for posting reeks of wanting the attention to see if others are feeling like he feels.

If he actually wanted to leave criticism for devs he'd posted on feedback, it wouldn't get much attention from people but it's possible to catch the eye of DE more than general discussion that's for sure

Then I concede taking misunderstanding the context of your statement. I do not agree with your original statement in emphatically knowing he is doing it because he wants just wants people to agree with him. I do agree more that he wanted to see if other players feel the same, which is why General Discussion is more apt, given his reasons.

[Nanraku]

Good lord, this is upsetting.

I wanted to share an opinion, shame on me for breaking that rule of the internet, and wanted to know what others thought of the game. That's it.

I wanted to know what the community thought about the game, but obviously that's a touchy subject that just breeds toxicity and hate. Apologies for my curiosity, I guess.

Thanks to those who shared their thoughts, I appreciate it. I didn't realize this community could be so defensive about this topic.

[(PSN)Unstar]

On 2021-04-04 at 10:56 PM, Nanraku said:

You jump around and shoot things. That's every mission.

You should try using melee and Warframe powers, they're very enjoyable <3

 

On 2021-04-04 at 10:56 PM, Nanraku said:

At a certain point, even the Warframe you choose doesn't matter in the end, since you could just pick a tank frame with a high-damage and fully kitted weapon and destroy anyways.

Seriously you should try Warframe powers, they are genuinely fun.  Did you know that Grendel can suck enemies into his tummy? 

 

On 2021-04-04 at 10:56 PM, Nanraku said:

I really, really want to enjoy this game. I did for a long time when it was released, but there came a point when it began feeling like more of a job than a game. It became boring, and progression was frustrating.

I've teased you a bit, but here's the reality: you are burned out on Warframe.  Despite this, you keep playing it regularly because you're stuck in the habit of doing so.  I recommend you break this habit.  Don't blame the potato you just put in your mouth for not being a hotdog.  Stop eating potatos and go get you some hotdogs!

As you've pointed out, Warframe is a game where you jump around and do fight things.  If you go into it wanting a different experience, you're going to have a bad time.  If you genuinely want to do PvP or Flappy Bird, then that's a solid sign that you don't actually want to play Warframe, you want to play a different game.  It's okay to take a break from Warframe, and it will still be here whenever you want to jump and fight.  Take a step back, turn the game off for at least a week, and find something else to do.  Only come back to the game when you find yourself wanting to play Warframe for what it is, not just because it's something to do.  Good luck!

[Zimzala]

1 hour ago, Nanraku said:

I wanted to share an opinion, shame on me for breaking that rule of the internet, and wanted to know what others thought of the game. That's it.

And that's what you got.

What were you expecting, a round of kumbaya or something?

People feel all kinds of things about Entertainment.

You said why you don't like WF right now and others gave their POVs.

What did you expect to happen when you came to a GaaS General Forum and told everyone that you don't like the game the forums goers play?

Do people just not understand that not everyone sees the world the same way?

[Nanraku]

14 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

What were you expecting, a round of kumbaya or something?

What I wasn't expecting was this amount of hostility. I was under the impression that this community was civil, but I'm starting to rethink that.

[Zimzala]

20 minutes ago, Nanraku said:

What I wasn't expecting was this amount of hostility. I was under the impression that this community was civil, but I'm starting to rethink that.

So, you walked into the room where everyone is playing a game and told everyone why you hate the game they are playing and you did not expect any/so many hostile responses, from Gamers, about something they love.

Show me a GaaS game forum where this would not happen the same way, I have not encountered one, personally.

Just because others disagree, even passionately, does not equate to toxic or hostile.

As for civil, I don't see anyone calling anyone a poopy-head, this thread is pretty tame, but if you expect an entire community the size of WF players to all act and think a certain way, I have oceanfront property in AZ to sell you.

[kamisama85]

Point me in the direction of a game that constantly quenches the thirst of the gamer 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, for 10 years. Ah that's right, it doesn't exist and is impossible. You should moderate how fast you consume content and take breaks like many of the other posters are suggesting. 

[Zimzala]

7 minutes ago, kamisama85 said:

Point me in the direction of a game that constantly quenches the thirst of the gamer 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, for 10 years. Ah that's right, it doesn't exist and is impossible. You should moderate how fast you consume content and take breaks like many of the other posters are suggesting. 

You and your logic have no power here!! /s 😉

[Sinekanter]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Nanraku:

What I wasn't expecting was this amount of hostility. I was under the impression that this community was civil, but I'm starting to rethink that.

Your very first post ever on the forum was just to complain about the game. Usually people don't react very well to that. 

You only joined the discussion about the game to complain. If you would have been on the forums a bit before complaining, you would have seen that people are pretty annoyed at these kinds of threads, because they pop up every week or so and are in general often very whiny and entitled. Not calling you that, but these type of topics often end up like that.

And honestly, compared to other communities, this thread is really civil. 

[Kontrollo]

4 hours ago, Nanraku said:

Good lord, this is upsetting.

I wanted to share an opinion, shame on me for breaking that rule of the internet, and wanted to know what others thought of the game. That's it.

I wanted to know what the community thought about the game, but obviously that's a touchy subject that just breeds toxicity and hate. Apologies for my curiosity, I guess.

Thanks to those who shared their thoughts, I appreciate it. I didn't realize this community could be so defensive about this topic.

First of all: welcome to the forums, the other, other endgame. If you stick around, you'll get used to it eventually. 😅

 

On 2021-04-05 at 7:56 AM, Nanraku said:

What really upsets me the most is DE's refusal to revamp content that flopped. Remember Conclave? The meme gamemode that nobody plays because it just wasn't enjoyable? Or even the arcade minigames that are so bugged and flawed? I would've loved to have some sort of pvp mode, but since DE couldn't make it work, they're not going to try again. Things like Frame Fighter and Happy Zephyr seem really lazily put together, even though Frame Fighter could have been fun to play. It seems to me that DE would rather stay inside the box they built, rather than spend time fixing or adding things that might spice up the game a bit.

Not sure how long you've been playing, but Conclave was decent while they were still actively working on it. Short version: at some point they started dropping the ball, though, and PvE changes bled into it and were never fully addressed. Same for Lunaro. Some people still play those despite all the flaws, however.

I don't think the mini games (Wyrmius, Happy Zephyr, Frame Fighter) were ever meant to be more than what they are, though. Fun little side projects, nothing more.

 

I agree they should spend a little time to fix those.

But somehow DE would rather release Space Frame v5 (or at what point are we now?), even though IMHO the first iteration of Railjack's fundamentals were better -- if not for all the game breaking bugs. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Goodwill]

If I had to say... you may have received a bit of a different reception with a simple title change. Your title alone already sets the atmosphere for your thread. But looking at the body of your opening, it's fairly... innocuous. But I am also not surprised that people come here in the mood that you set.

It happens though and then it comes down to how you reply. You can turn opinions around and have civilized or healthy discussions but you don't do that by saying, "oh, this place is terrible and so are the people here" (exaggerated for dramatic effect). Reply to the points people have made and show that you too are also open for discussion and criticism to your own points. When people see that you aren't here to simply farm compliments, then they are much more likely to positively engage with you, even if both of you are at a fundamental disagreement.

I've had times I've negatively replied to someone but then they replied with great intent to discuss and I honestly can't be negative to that even if we disagree.

Anyway, onto your actual topic.

I think I can empathize and I will not disagree that Warframe lacks what you call "variety". But I think that's not quite the core of the issue. Personally, I think it's less about variety and more so how its executed. Warframe has a great amount of variety, but I would criticize that it's overwhelming for DE to make all of those mesh well together with the core gameplay. With the current state of Warframe I think the only gamemodes that work near flawlessly due to the game Warframe is are the Defense, Exterminate and Survival modes. All of those allow us to completely cut loose with what the game has given us. Some modes or mechanics are relics back when Warframe was more of a stealth game but doesn't quite work in a game where leaving no witnesses is simply more efficient than being unseen.

As some others have pointed out, at the end of the day, all games are repetitive and again, I don't believe that repetition is your issue but rather that you find those repetitive activities boring and unengaging. Again, I can empathize, so how do we make those activities more engaging and how do you believe the game needs to change to make them more engaging? Me, I think those repetitive activities could be more fun if we had Warframe's old parkour and stamina system. And there is absolutely no one who plays Warframe who would disagree with me. Anyone who does are not disagreeing, they are simply undecided and one day they will come around to the greatness that was legacy Warframe.

The arcade mini games are just bonus easter eggs and not really something DE ever had the intention of expanding upon. This also applies to conclave, but as you may know right now Warframe needs a lot of work done especially now that they are focusing on Railjack. They just simply don't have the time or resources to put aside for those when the core of Warframe is still unfinished and in some cases broken. Maybe they will revisit conclave someday, but it won't be anytime soon. It's really all about priorities and since Warframe is primarily a PvE game, it reasons that PvE would take priority over PvP.

I will admit, Warframe can feel like a chore or a second job. That's why I smashed everything out a few months back to hit MR 30 and caught up with everything so now I only need to check back when there is new stuff. But honestly, it all depends on how much value you place on a game that will determine whether you want to treat it like a job. At the least Warframe is a game that doesn't require you to upgrade all your gear and character every few months in order to stay relevant. Well... Warframe does have inklings of that with weapon variants like Prisma and Kuva weapons but still not as demanding as other games where the level cap rises and past gear becomes obsolete.



 

 

[Surbusken]

2 hours ago, kamisama85 said:

Point me in the direction of a game that constantly quenches the thirst of the gamer 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, for 10 years. Ah that's right, it doesn't exist and is impossible. You should moderate how fast you consume content and take breaks like many of the other posters are suggesting. 

There are basically 2 schools of thought.

- Dynamic gameplay or procedually generated

- Player created content

 

Some of the most loyal communities, are modding communties, who actually ended up creating some of the most successful games in history, games like dota 2 and counterstrike are player created.

... where player created content can easily be a lot more clever, but far more importantly, opens the door to infinite creativity and infinite, unique content.

A game like APB, attempted to add server side player created cosmetics, with an in-game creator/editor. Like for example, selling car decals, your own designs in the in-game shop, then other players can drive around town with your work on their car.

The absolute beauty of that, is the developers have the players creating their own content, doing the work for them, and the players get to experience the highest form of agency and putting their print on the game.

Another example would be minecraft, with infinite things you can create, though you are technically doing something simple.

In more modern times, crafting and base building games have made a push.

 

The other school of thought, dynamic gameplay, are games like swat 4, left4dead and sandbox games like GTA.

You have a fixed amount of things that can occur always, but they are randomized so while it is the same thing happening, it never feels the same.

 

One overall problem with "fun" and "playing", is what the brain is amused by.

Think of a standup show, is repetition and predictability fun? The structure of a joke, is the suprise, right? Repetition is anti-fun, unless you are autistic, with no offense to those people.

There is some kind of connection there, between creativity, surprise, engagement and agency, that isn't random - and that most games are not clever enough to meet the demands of.

For example how far off AI is from stimulating the player.

Warframe is all about repeating the same task, for a reward - timegated based on their projections of when the next grind item comes out. That's not the definition of fun, that's the exact opposite. That's the definition of work.

 

If warframe wants to go back to its ideal of being this next generation, innovative, mold-breaking starlight, they dramatically need to step it up.

The concept of warframe as is, is 1998 mmo loot grinding, the lowest amount of ambition for the gameplay, they are coasting, knowing people will grind any amount of terrible content, if the loot is worth it.

What they are doing now, is exactly what they themselves said, they didn't want to fall into. Run of the mill putting out copy-pasted loot on a rotation.

 

I call it "above the rim".

Basketball used to be played under the rim, by short, unathletic, overweight white guys, until Whilt Chamberlain showed up, 7'1 and a true athlete started dunking on everyone, clowning the whole industry.

Now the game is played above the rim, on a whole other level with entirely new dimensions. Someone has to make the push for the next level, always.

For everyone, everwyhere in anything, per human nauture, you work towards the next plateau and it never stops.

You never sit around and defend the status quo, that's not normal, that's not healthy and it is not useful.

 

[Kontrollo]

On 2021-04-05 at 9:32 PM, Ascarith said:

For clarity, when you say "Conclave-exclusive weapons and warframes," do you mean exclusively acquired in Conclave, or exclusively used in Conclave? If the former, I'd probably expect very vocal portions of the PvE crowd to riot. If the latter, I'd probably expect...very vocal portions of the PvE crowd to riot.

You're right, rewards are a very touchy subject with this crowd.

 

On 2021-04-05 at 9:32 PM, Ascarith said:

We've kind of had both of those things previously, and people complained about both. People still occasionally fuss about the Conclave-specific cosmetics (the Syandana, in particular, because you have to keep playing Conclave to get certain visual effects). People also complained about certain mods that were usable in PvE, but could only be acquired in Conclave. I believe these are available now outside of Conclave, and I'm sure next to nobody actually uses most of them, but they were complained about presumably on principle alone. 

Trying to change the mechanics of WF to "fit PvP" doesn't necessarily seem like a win either. I'm not a big Conclave guy, but I'm guessing the people that enjoy Conclave enjoy it because of the mechanics that are unique to WF (e.g., hyper-mobility). Otherwise, there are probably tons of "better" PvP games they could be playing instead. 

The first part is not entirely true. Only cosmetics have ever been exclusive rewards. As soon as they made Conclave mod(s) available in PvE due to popular demand, they also made them acquirable through PvE gameplay in some form. E.g. they put some in Sentient drop tables; also see Mesa's Waltz, which was originally exclusive to Conclave but now in other Syndicates, as well.

The devs know this and have been very consistent in that regard. They never even made the Zylok a Conclave acquirable weapon, either.

And yes, the mobility plays a big role in what makes Warframe PvP enjoyable. It's definitely not making it easy to get into, but the devs only ever implemented the half-assed Recruit Conditioning and basically ignored all the other suggestions which would help people get started/have an easier time.

[Leon-Darkheart]

I lately saw a video on youtube from Rahetalius

and i left a comment below it so before you might read futher, here his video first:

 

As for the comment i left there, it was as followed:

 

The problem i have with warframe is basicly the same.

i "played" (i would use the word wasted for the better) over 2000 hours into warframe and for sure some good amount of money but every updates so far feel either like its the same over and over again or just fixing something they pulled of which was SO broken or out of context in the first place.

 

To name some updates, the last 3 big open world updates as sample. The Plains, Fortuna and however the new area is called now are all pretty much the f*cking same. You begin with a tutorial mission to see the area a bit and than have to grind your way up 2 or more fractions to actually have a "chance" to get better stuff - and that for ALL of those areas simultaneously. This is not how you create content coz that is not content. its basicly created just to keep the player busy but not satisfied because basicly all what the player does is running in circles over and over again to get little to no result at the end. I literally gave a sh*t about the plains as they came out because, even after the "overhaul" update, it still looks like its a f*cking desert. As for Fortuna, i liked it a bit more but only because im a s*cker for snow mountains bios and nothing more...and since i dont even remember the name of the third open world area you can already see how much of a f*ck i give about this piece of sh*t again. Its not fun to do all over and over again and call it "content". Its busy work, nothing else.

 

Same i could say now with the forma-stuff and reset everything to level zero. This is not fun to do and the system behind it is flawed coz all it does it keep the player unnecessary busy with something they already did anyway and mostly had no fun doing it already ones doesnt make it funnier if you do it another time only because you have to to use better mods on your guns, swords and warframes.

 

As for the out of context thing i said earlier, i would count up railjack into it. Its basicly a flight simulator within another 3rd person shooter...and for me it feels like all they wanted there at DE is making archwing look "intresting" again which it didnt look back than nor does it look good right now. Railjack was not only..."buggy" (VERY kindly said...) as it came out, it felt like (and still feels) a different game you dont "need" as part from Warframe - and thats the problem here. Every different "thing" they put "into" warframe feels like its a different "something" which doesnt conect with the game it basicly is or should be. It feels like one day DE wanted that Warframe is a 3rd person shooter, the other day they wanted it to be a cheap Star Trek ripoff, the other day its a freaking fishing simulator and whats next? A Dinner simulator so Konzu finally gets earlier his lunch?

 

This is basicly what breaks Warframe and the playerbase. I can understand if they wanna add different or varity "content" into the game but than it has to be done right - As i said, The whole base game feels totally different if you put hands on railjack for the first time or other corners of the game which are either not playerd, buggy or outright underdeveloped (like the PvP part as one sample. Why it still "exists", i duno either do other i guess). So instead of making the game as "whole" more intresting, they let the player "running his chores" instead of adding actual fun into it, doing stuff over and over and over again than actually bringing something "new" to the table to the actual BASE but adding other, totally different stuff into the game with not even conecting it, adding stuff you have to fram for THIS stuff next to stuff you already DID farm in the "core" of the main game.

 

I hope someone understands this little rant since i really needed to release this vent...

[Ascarith]

1 hour ago, Kontrollo said:

The first part is not entirely true. Only cosmetics have ever been exclusive rewards. As soon as they made Conclave mod(s) available in PvE due to popular demand, they also made them acquirable through PvE gameplay in some form. E.g. they put some in Sentient drop tables; also see Mesa's Waltz, which was originally exclusive to Conclave but now in other Syndicates, as well.

Spring-Loaded Broadhead was what I had in mind when I wrote that. It's been available in PvE for most of it's lifespan (introduced in Update 17.0, PvE enabled in Update 17.9), but couldn't be acquired from a Sentient until Update 21.4.

That said, I don't know if that's just a mod that fell through the cracks, or if DE was intentionally holding out on it. I think most of the other mods that were PvE-enabled in Update 17.9 successfully got added to Sentient drop tables (although technically Sentients didn't come until Update 18.0). 

[vanaukas]

"Everything I don't like isn't content" the thread.

[Leon-Darkheart]

3 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

"Everything I don't like isn't content" the thread.

so you call leveling up a weapon from level zero to level 30 5 times in a row, just to use the right mods on it, "content"? Well ok than...

[vanaukas]

Just now, Leon-Darkheart said:

so you call leveling up a weapon 5 times in a row just to use the right mods on it "content"? Well ok than...

No, but full open world areas are called "no content" by your own words. Sustaining the F2P bussiness model has downsides and upsides for us (players), and that's something you apparently forgot, Formas are one of many systems that keeps you playing or investing in money because that's the whole thing works so they can keep working, hiring people and upgrading their stuff so the game can also evolve. Look other games, like payday 2, paid game, wich hasn't got any sustantial update, with the same gameplay and graphics of when was released. Look to games like wow, where you have to pay the game, the expansions and also paying a subscription, just to enter the game and grind. Look Destiny 2, marketed as F2P, where you also pay for DLC/Updates just to have your earned content literally deleted because devs are incapable of maitining a decent size of their own game. I prefer to forma 5 times a weapon rather than any system I've already mentioned, if that makes me play free, at my own pace, without my stuff getting deleted and also with the full confidence of improvements on the game (graphuical and gameplay wise).

[Berzerkules]

3 minutes ago, Leon-Darkheart said:

so you call leveling up a weapon from level zero to level 30 5 times in a row, just to use the right mods on it, "content"? Well ok than...

Train man forma Vauban like 1000 times and called it content. 

I'd be pretty burned out and have a negative opinion of the game if I did that to myself too. 

[Leon-Darkheart]

2 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

Train man forma Vauban like 1000 times and called it content. 

I'd be pretty burned out and have a negative opinion of the game if I did that to myself too. 

(being fair here, he did it for the memes. noone really need to level a frame THAT much...but it still makes no fun if you have to do it 2-6 times sometimes...)

 

6 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

No, but full open world areas are called "no content" by your own words. Sustaining the F2P bussiness model has downsides and upsides for us (players), and that's something you apparently forgot, Formas are one of many systems that keeps you playing or investing in money because that's the whole thing works so they can keep working, hiring people and upgrading their stuff so the game can also evolve. Look other games, like payday 2, paid game, wich hasn't got any sustantial update, with the same gameplay and graphics of when was released. Look to games like wow, where you have to pay the game, the expansions and also paying a subscription, just to enter the game and grind. Look Destiny 2, marketed as F2P, where you also pay for DLC/Updates just to have your earned content literally deleted because devs are incapable of maitining a decent size of their own game. I prefer to forma 5 times a weapon rather than any system I've already mentioned, if that makes me play free, at my own pace, without my stuff getting deleted and also with the full confidence of improvements on the game (graphuical and gameplay wise).

As i said as well, the 3 open worlds do feel like all the same over and over again. If you did one, you know what you "have to" do in the other one and so on. this is not how you make "varity content" - at least try to read my full wall of text there.

As for formas, im sure there "is" a better way since it is no fun and, as you said it pretty much for yourself there, its busy work, nothing more nor intented to "create fun" behind this system...which it isnt in the first place.

Payday 2 cant really be counted up or "compared" to warframe since they hide every content they create behind a payed DLC which is already by now way to ridiculous but to go on your comment, payday 2 "keeps" the formula about the game play. Yes, its basicly the "same" gameplay over and over again but they vary in the "how" situation insteed of the "what" one. To explain it, Payday 2 adds new stuff and missions where the player asks more like "how" you play them the best way wile warframe adds new stuff into the game where the player asks himself "what" they added (like railjack as sample).

As for Destiny 2, i cant say anything about it since i dont play it.

 

[TheArmchairThinker]

So what is content then?

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

6 hours ago, kamisama85 said:

Point me in the direction of a game that constantly quenches the thirst of the gamer 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, for 10 years. Ah that's right, it doesn't exist and is impossible. You should moderate how fast you consume content and take breaks like many of the other posters are suggesting. 

Skyrim does that to a lot of people

[KittySkin]

8 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

No, but full open world areas are called "no content" by your own words. Sustaining the F2P bussiness model has downsides and upsides for us (players), and that's something you apparently forgot, Formas are one of many systems that keeps you playing or investing in money because that's the whole thing works so they can keep working, hiring people and upgrading their stuff so the game can also evolve. Look other games, like payday 2, paid game, wich hasn't got any sustantial update, with the same gameplay and graphics of when was released. Look to games like wow, where you have to pay the game, the expansions and also paying a subscription, just to enter the game and grind. Look Destiny 2, marketed as F2P, where you also pay for DLC/Updates just to have your earned content literally deleted because devs are incapable of maitining a decent size of their own game. I prefer to forma 5 times a weapon rather than any system I've already mentioned, if that makes me play free, at my own pace, without my stuff getting deleted and also with the full confidence of improvements on the game (graphuical and gameplay wise).

People seems to REALLY forget the fact that this is a F2P game released 8 years ago. Like, for real, what they did upgrading the engine, the graphics, the performance (damn god, there where some SUPER deep performance improvement like atomic tasks reduced from 13ms to 5ms that are just damn stupidly hard to do), the insane ammount of content to consume without even starting to forma stuff and build every single item ingame, just regular story gameplay and world exploration alone can sink deep as 100 to 200 hours, AND ITS #*!%ING FREE.

People compare this game to paid to own games released this year, and dont get the point that its not the case, this game was released in 2013 and it looks and feels on a lot of ways, like a brand new product, unlike Destiny 2 and its terrible performance or Anthem and its stupidly bad release, both games that required you to pay to own the game or expansions while also selling ingame stuff for IRL money.

[Kaotyke]

2000 hours of wasted time... Well, before you got to hour 2000, did you feel entertained? Did you not enjoy any of those hours, EVER?

Because the only way that an entertainment medium to waste your time, is for you to stick to it after you are no longer entertained.

If the game is no longer giving you joy, the solution is to move on.

Battlefield 3 entertained me for 1 year. When it no longer felt good, I left and looked for something else.

When Planetside 2 no longer entertained me after 2 years, I left to look for something else.

When Payday 2 no longer entertained me after 6 months, I left.

When Pokemon no longer entertained me after 9 years of gameboy games, I no longer went back to the franchise.

When I left Counter-Strike 1.6 after over 13 years of modded game servers and maps and trash talk with people who didn't take anything seriously and filled with stupid character models and memes when a knife kill happened no longer entertained me, I left.

You do outgrow your forms of entertainment. And maybe return to some others, like: I'm playing a pokemon knock off right now. It's similar in many, MANY ways, but it entertains me, so I play it.

[Leon-Darkheart]

4 minutes ago, KittySkin said:

People seems to REALLY forget the fact that this is a F2P game released 8 years ago. Like, for real, what they did upgrading the engine, the graphics, the performance (damn god, there where some SUPER deep performance improvement like atomic tasks reduced from 13ms to 5ms that are just damn stupidly hard to do), the insane ammount of content to consume without even starting to forma stuff and build every single item ingame, just regular story gameplay and world exploration alone can sink deep as 100 to 200 hours, AND ITS #*!%ING FREE.

People compare this game to paid to own games released this year, and dont get the point that its not the case, this game was released in 2013 and it looks and feels on a lot of ways, like a brand new product, unlike Destiny 2 and its terrible performance or Anthem and its stupidly bad release, both games that required you to pay to own the game or expansions while also selling ingame stuff for IRL money.

here i just throw in "phantasy star online: NG". google it and you might see what an graphic update + new creation + new content conecting with old content means. (since i play PSO2 since the world wide release now and than).