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How should Nyx be fixed..?


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18 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Chaos for example absolutely trivializes Mobile Defense but in order to do so you don't just cast it when you're at the target. INSTEAD you abuse the enemy spawn limit by casting Chaos as you travel to your objective. Net result is that enemies will attack each other as you move through and then completely forget they are when it wears off, leaving them miles away from the objective and you get to snooze till you can move on.

That's all well and good (and actually kind of interesting because I honestly forget about the spawn limit most of the time) but when it comes to Mobile Defense there's...a lot of things that can trivialize that mission type so it's not quite something I'd say is a massive draw for Nyx herself, though having a niche is a good thing, it's just that specific niche is a bit narrow imo. Though I'll admit she's good for Interception as well, despite how little I like playing Interception personally.

Though I just had a bit of a thought while looking over the Wiki, aside from Assimilate Nyx's Augments are kind of...mediocre come to think of it, perhaps a rework of those could be an avenue to improve Nyx without messing with her core kit too much (aside from the obvious issue of Mind Control).

Take Pacifying Bolts for example, 10 seconds of confusion for a mod slot isn't really that amazing, especially when any effected enemy will likely die much faster than that in most cases, and while Chaos Sphere is solid (kind of turns it into a confusion version of Cataclysm) it feels like it doesn't seem like it is often discussed or used.

Just a thought that came to mind on ways to improve things without intrinsically changing them.

Edited by Aldain
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24 minutes ago, Aldain said:

That's all well and good (and actually kind of interesting because I honestly forget about the spawn limit most of the time) but when it comes to Mobile Defense there's...a lot of things that can trivialize that mission type so it's not quite something I'd say is a massive draw for Nyx herself, though having a niche is a good thing, it's just that specific niche is a bit narrow imo. Though I'll admit she's good for Interception as well, despite how little I like playing Interception personally.

Though I just had a bit of a thought while looking over the Wiki, aside from Assimilate Nyx's Augments are kind of...mediocre come to think of it, perhaps a rework of those could be an avenue to improve Nyx without messing with her core kit too much (aside from the obvious issue of Mind Control).

Take Pacifying Bolts for example, 10 seconds of confusion for a mod slot isn't really that amazing, especially when any effected enemy will likely die much faster than that in most cases, and while Chaos Sphere is solid (kind of turns it into a confusion version of Cataclysm) it feels like it doesn't seem like it is often discussed or used.

Just a thought that came to mind on ways to improve things without intrinsically changing them.

Oh it was meant as purely 1 example of how you can use her. Sure you can use a Frost, Limbo, Gara, Khora, etc for Mobile Defense as well, I just enjoy using Nyx. And that's my whole point. These people advocating for a frame rework because it isn't used much? Who cares. You have over 40 frames to choose from, kindly allow the people who DO enjoy using the frame to continue doing so. If a frame rework is ACTUALLY in order, it should be getting voiced by those who actually use the frame frequently, not the masses of Saryn, Mesa, Khora etc users who have very little idea how to play her. This entire thread was started by someone who admits they don't use her... And again the majority of those who do play Nyx tend to angle towards better thematic abilities not "these abilities suck and need to be changed". That ridiculous attitude would simply lead to every frame being a DPS frame, how boring would that be?

Yeh her augments could be reworked, I don't actually use any of them save Chaos Sphere occasionally but that's because I use Nyx's 4 in a different way to most people, as a means of DPS, not survival. 

Edited by -CdG-Zilchy
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9 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

If a frame rework is ACTUALLY in order, it should be getting voiced by those who actually use the frame frequently, not the masses of Saryn, Mesa, Khora etc users who have very little idea how to play her.

And this needs to be brought up more in general almost every time we see people clamoring for reworks. 

The truth is while some may not be optimal at anything, all frames CAN do any content if you build them right, especially with all the means of survivability we have right now. 

Even Hydroid, the frame many in the community seem to claim bad as a "consensus" is loved by Hydroid mains who play him, and while they wouldn't say no to some qol touchups or little buffs, they actually like the core way he functions and don't want an actual rework. Because he can get them through any content in the game just fine and they love his theme and how he works now, already. 

We have so many frames and different themes and choices; when I see some of the drastic reworks people post nowadays I'm like "why not just put it as a new frame in fan concepts, and let people enjoy what they enjoy?" If you are already basically making a new frame anyways, it means your rework has gone too far, and since they keep making new frames anyways, just put your new theme as a new concept, maybe something like it will get made as a new frame eventually. 

 

Edited by Tesseract7777
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2 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

And this needs to be brought up more in general almost every time we see people clamoring for reworks. 

The truth is while some may not be optimal at anything, all frames CAN do any content if you build them right, especially with all the means of survivability we have right now. 

Even Hydroid, the frame many in the community seem to claim bad as a "consensus" is loved by Hydroid mains who play him, and while they wouldn't say no to some qol touchups or little buffs, they actually like the core way he functions and don't want an actual rework. Because he can get them through any content in the game just fine and they love his theme and how he works now, already. 

We have so many frames and different themes and choices; when I see some of the drastic reworks people post nowadays I'm like "why not just put it as a new frame in fan concepts, and let people enjoy what they enjoy?" If you are already basically making a new frame anyways, it means your rework has gone too far, and since they keep making new frames anyways, just put your new theme as a new concept, maybe something like it will get made as a new frame eventually. 

 

Hear Hear, preaching to the choir my man. As I said before it would be like me creating a thread saying Zephyr needs a complete overhaul despite the fact I never ever play Zephyr. I have no business calling for a rework and downplaying the opinions of experienced Zephyr players.

Edited by -CdG-Zilchy
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18 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Oh it was meant as purely 1 example of how you can use her. Sure you can use a Frost, Limbo, Gara, Khora, etc for Mobile Defense as well, I just enjoy using Nyx. And that's my whole point. These people advocating for a frame rework because it isn't used much? Who cares. You have over 40 frames to choose from, kindly allow the people who DO enjoy using the frame to continue doing so. If a frame rework is ACTUALLY in order, it should be getting voiced by those who actually use the frame frequently, not the masses of Saryn, Mesa, Khora etc users who have very little idea how to play her.

I totally get that, though I'd say not to wholly discount the opinions of a few multi-frame dabblers like myself for a different perspective, even if it doesn't pan out to actually need change. Getting a broader scope of perspective is good for everyone (like me with the spawn cap thing you mentioned earlier, would never have thought of that) and can point out common points of agreement.

Overall I do agree she doesn't need any sweeping changes, but there does feel like something is missing in my eyes (likely the Augment situation since the more I think on it the more it sticks out like a sore thumb to me), but I won't deny that I don't have nearly as wide a depth of knowledge on her top tricks.

Though I will say that there are some circumstances where a frame is indeed in a bad spot even for people who like them, Vauban and Wukong being the two biggest that come to mind, though DE might have overdone it on Wukong.

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20 minutes ago, Aldain said:

I totally get that, though I'd say not to wholly discount the opinions of a few multi-frame dabblers like myself for a different perspective, even if it doesn't pan out to actually need change. Getting a broader scope of perspective is good for everyone (like me with the spawn cap thing you mentioned earlier, would never have thought of that) and can point out common points of agreement.

Overall I do agree she doesn't need any sweeping changes, but there does feel like something is missing in my eyes (likely the Augment situation since the more I think on it the more it sticks out like a sore thumb to me), but I won't deny that I don't have nearly as wide a depth of knowledge on her top tricks.

Though I will say that there are some circumstances where a frame is indeed in a bad spot even for people who like them, Vauban and Wukong being the two biggest that come to mind, though DE might have overdone it on Wukong.

Yeh I agree her augments could definitely be better. Wukong is sadly a lazy player's dream right now. Vauban is another of those divisive frames. Do I personally use him? No but I'm sure there's people out there that are enjoying the frame and have a decent idea of what changes could be implemented, although I think a lot of the frustration stems from Protea basically being released as the type of frame players always wanted Vauban to be.

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11 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Vauban is another of those divisive frames. Do I personally use him? No but I'm sure there's people out there that are enjoying the frame and have a decent idea of what changes could be implemented, although I think a lot of the frustration stems from Protea basically being released as the type of frame players always wanted Vauban to be.

Honestly after playing Protea I actually like Vauban more, the Flechette Orb actually feels more like an actual turret than Protea's because of the longer duration.

The only thing I actually prefer on Protea is her Grenade Fan when compared to Vauban's Tesla Orbs, I was actually that one guy who was bummed out when they just made Protea give Dispenser via Helminth instead.

Edited by Aldain
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I'm seeing some accusations like "anyone who asks for reworks is a mesa player" or something.

Well no. At least not me. Don't generalize. 

I was actually pretty much a Nyx main. She was pretty efficient but with how things are now we just have frames that are much more impressive than Nyx. Especially when it comes to cc. 

At the very least her augments should become part of her abilities. I think that would make her a lot better while not making her completely overpowered.

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2 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

I'm seeing some accusations like "anyone who asks for reworks is a mesa player" or something.

Well no. At least not me. Don't generalize. 

I was actually pretty much a Nyx main. She was pretty efficient but with how things are now we just have frames that are much more impressive than Nyx. Especially when it comes to cc. 

At the very least her augments should become part of her abilities. I think that would make her a lot better while not making her completely overpowered.

I've had 3 people go against my comments in this thread, all 3 don't actually use the frame. That's not generalizing, that's a pattern. I'm sure some people use Nyx and want a rework but the majority of people saying they want a complete ability overhaul in this thread at least, don't.

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6 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

I'm seeing some accusations like "anyone who asks for reworks is a mesa player" or something.

Well no. At least not me. Don't generalize. 

I was actually pretty much a Nyx main. She was pretty efficient but with how things are now we just have frames that are much more impressive than Nyx. Especially when it comes to cc. 

At the very least her augments should become part of her abilities. I think that would make her a lot better while not making her completely overpowered.

Well then the comments that were made were not for you. 

And you have every right to ask for rework style fixes if you think they are needed. 

If you notice there is an exception in our comments for people who are mains or pseudo-mains of that frame and have a lot of experience. 

What is being criticized is the mentality of those who do have little to no experience with a frame, and want it reworked just because it doesn't fit their playstyle. Maybe the people like you, who main it, see some things that need to be fixed, but actually like that frames playstyle, idk. 

Edited by Tesseract7777
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4 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Sorry pal but from reading your previous comments it's pretty clear you don't how to play the frame or you have no vested interest in doing so, making your opinion much weaker.

That's nice, except I'm not arguing from my own experience here, I'm arguing from independent statistics. Your attempts at gatekeeping may certainly not be effective at dismissing valid arguments from others, but they certainly do a good job of showing your own vested interests in this sort of conversation.

4 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

I disagree that usage charts should govern reworks purely on the fact that the average casual player will gravitate towards lazy frames that play the game for them. That's NOT A GOOD THING. Encouraging lazy play should not be the focus here.

I don't think you really understood the point being made: at no point did I argue that we should balance all warframes to have the same popularity rate, nor am I advocating for any frame to be made "lazy" (my rework proposal certainly should indicate otherwise), I am simply pointing out that when a warframe has a really, really terrible pick rate, that's usually a sign that something's not quite right with them. Again, that doesn't mean the frame should be made the next Saryn or Wukong, it just means they could likely stand to receive some improvements, depending on the reasons for why they're not doing well. Some frames are more or less popular depending on meta, but sometimes it really is a case of issues with their kit. That is clearly the case with Nyx, whose rework disappointed many players, including players who do play her a lot and wanted something better.

4 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Saryn is popular, Wukong is popular, Mesa, Khora etc why? Because they simplify the game for players to watch tv while playing, that's not a good thing. Inaros is popular along with Rhino cos newbies who stand still all the time are less likely to die with them. Nyx isn't popular because she requires work to get the best out of her and experience to do so, kind of like how Banshee isn't popular despite being an absolute in the hands of a skilled player.

That's interesting, because Banshee's two most famous contributions are spamming her 2 for overlapping Sonar zones, and merely pressing 4 then going AFK in Defense/Interception missions. She absolutely can be played lazily, just like Nyx similarly just has to press 4 for persistent invincibility, it's just that even at their best, these frames still do have some problems.

4 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Just because new players don't find Nyx enjoyable doesn't justify a rework unless you're a company looking purely at the bottom dollar. Having a diverse range of frames that can appeal to all different types of players is healthy for the game., There are plenty of players who enjoy Nyx just as she is.

That's nice, but we're not just talking new players here, we're talking the near-totality of Warframe's playerbase. Nyx is overwhelmingly unpopular, and there is a general consensus as to why. At the end of the day, gatekeeping a frame you like may perhaps work to your own selfish benefit, but unfortunately for you, you're not the only person playing Warframe, and you're going to have to accept that. If you have valid reasons for not changing Nyx besides citing your personal preference and insulting the skill and/or experience of people criticizing her, I'm all ears, but so far those have been the two notes to your entire tune on this thread.

4 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Before you make some sarcastic comment about "my own vast experience with Nyx" like you have in your 2 previous comments to the other guy(ironic when you're patronising him for being disrespectful) I'll just inform you that she's my 2nd most played frame and if you don't believe me, feel free to go and check my profile.

This is a rather interesting attack coming from someone who decided to introduce themselves to another by belittling them and dismissing their valid criticisms for their low play time on a frame. Just like that other person, you seem to be under the impression that you can insult and dismiss others, while still feeling entitled to only the utmost deference based on your self-professed skill at this game. News flash: that's not how civil conversation works, and if you're going to be rude and disrespectful to others, someone is going to point out to you that that's not okay. I respect the fact that you have experience with Nyx, but at the same time I question your motivations on this thread, because clearly your position stems purely from a personal desire to stonewall any discussion that would lead to one of your pet frames changing substantially in any way, rather than any desire to hear out, let alone work with other people who'd potentially be even more dedicated Nyx players than you if she were improved even somewhat.

4 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

In other words, I know what I'm talking about regarding her abilities, I'm not blowing hot air out my orifice like you appear to be when claiming her abilities don't work. Mind control? Sure that one's bad but the other 3 are fine and are useful.

Interesting, because several other Nyx players on these forums have pointed out otherwise, and corroborated criticism made by many people who have experienced her, even if not to the same extent as you. More to the point, your experience with Nyx is irrelevant when making simple comparisons between some of her abilities and those of others: Psychic Bolts, for example, cannot affect more than 6 enemies at a time, as it says on the tin, whereas many other abilities exist that can strip many more enemies at a time of their entire armor, while also often doing more things on top. You could have played Nyx for 3k+ hours and the conclusion would still be the same.

4 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Not many frames have 4 good abilities should we rework them all? Yeh I didn't think so.

I do think so, and perhaps this is where we may have to agree to disagree: I can perhaps agree that we shouldn't urgently rework frames if their only problem is one dead ability, and they're doing fine otherwise, but when the frame barely sees any play on top of having abilities that are mediocre or flat-out unusable, that I think makes them a prime target for an update. Nyx is one such frame, as her low play rate is a statistical fact and her abilities can easily be compared to those of many competitors, so she'd definitely benefit from being reworked by a dev who genuinely cares about her.

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On 2021-04-08 at 10:33 PM, (XBOX)Apoll0 666 said:

How should Nyx be fixed?

By restructuring damage system and EHP accordingly. Why?

The core of Nyx revolves around using enemy damage as a weapon. The problem is... enemy damage is utterly ridicolous against enemy EHP because it is balanced for Tenno EHP (more or less).

Instead of having different scales of parameters, we should balanced numbers around an unique scale of order/measurement taking into account multiple factors. In this way enemy damage would become not only relevant but the best dps in the game.

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5 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Most Nyx mains would prefer a thematic rework rather than the abilities and most of the criticism is rightfully levelled at her 1st ability. The rest of the frame however is perfectly fine. Absorb is a bit of a conundrum in that it has uses that are unintended but very powerful, doesn't make it good or bad, just odd if anything. 

That not what all the posts I’ve been seeing here have been saying.

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1 hour ago, Cloud said:

By restructuring damage system and EHP accordingly. Why?

The core of Nyx revolves around using enemy damage as a weapon. The problem is... enemy damage is utterly ridicolous against enemy EHP because it is balanced for Tenno EHP (more or less).

This would also do wonders for a large amount of frames and weapons.

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14 minutes ago, EdinaMonsoon said:

nyx doesn't need a rework tho, her 1 needs modernising and that's it

A few of her augments do need some help though imo, Pacifying Bolts in particular is a waste of a mod slot for example because effected enemies usually get blitzed down in seconds and Chaos' augment is hit-or-miss.

Also Mind Control's augment is a bit questionable because even with 500% damage many enemies will not do much other than be a small extra target.

Edited by Aldain
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I like how Psychic Bolts does no damage, reduces armor, inflicts slow, and doesn't cause aggro.

 

For Absorb, I like the augment. Sure the coverage is halved, but being able to move while invincible is nice.

(I use my subsumed Pull to drag enemies into melee range, like I'm Darth Vader. or use my Mausalon Archgun like I'm the Terminator)

Generally I use it with my Overextended mod to put up enough of a defensive barrier around Defense targets as I deal with attacking units.

 

Mind Control.....If I had to edit it, I'd just make the Duration infinite until I turn it off. (Though DE probably don't like that because of Automatic play, can also reapply Mind Control to extend duration instead. Cast on target to reapply, otherwise you'll be turning off mind control instead.)

Can order the mind controlled target to hold their ground/stay like how I can with specters.

Maybe a mini Absorb on them that releases once Mind Control falls off? (iffy for me, maybe an augment?)

 

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Okay, keep in mind, I haven't played as Nyx, so take my statement with a grain of salt, here.

I personally think Nyx seems like an overall decent CC Frame, and her kit is incredibly flexible, but she needs some buffs to be great on her own pre-Helminth.

First, give Mind Controlled targets some form of damage scaling that works. This is a universal minion issue, not just for Nyx, but for Nekros, Inaros, and just about any minion not using any Tenno weapon. I suggest a universal level of True damage that could actually make some form of impact applied to all minions. (And yes, I know the two examples I used aren't the greatest, since Nekros primarily uses Minions to draw aggro and tank with the Augment, while Inaros' Sand Shadows are just a little extra bit, but even still. They may as well not attack at all with how little damage they do.)

Additionally, give her QoL buffs like making her 4's Augment basekit, and her 3 should definitely make enemies prioritize other enemies at least until a Tenno gets too close.

Her 2, from what I've seen, is a great armor strip, so I'm alright with that one.

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14 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Oh it was meant as purely 1 example of how you can use her. Sure you can use a Frost, Limbo, Gara, Khora, etc for Mobile Defense as well, I just enjoy using Nyx. And that's my whole point. These people advocating for a frame rework because it isn't used much? Who cares. You have over 40 frames to choose from, kindly allow the people who DO enjoy using the frame to continue doing so. If a frame rework is ACTUALLY in order, it should be getting voiced by those who actually use the frame frequently, not the masses of Saryn, Mesa, Khora etc users who have very little idea how to play her. This entire thread was started by someone who admits they don't use her... And again the majority of those who do play Nyx tend to angle towards better thematic abilities not "these abilities suck and need to be changed". That ridiculous attitude would simply lead to every frame being a DPS frame, how boring would that be?

Yeh her augments could be reworked, I don't actually use any of them save Chaos Sphere occasionally but that's because I use Nyx's 4 in a different way to most people, as a means of DPS, not survival. 

Do you remember when Ivara Prime was released? A bunch of posts popped up basically saying "Why is ivara so slow?". 

People just tried ivara because it was a new Prime and had no idea how she actually worked and I see this a lot on game forums in general: "I just discovered something new, but here's how it can be changed..."

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1 hour ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Do you remember when Ivara Prime was released? A bunch of posts popped up basically saying "Why is ivara so slow?". 

People just tried ivara because it was a new Prime and had no idea how she actually worked and I see this a lot on game forums in general: "I just discovered something new, but here's how it can be changed..."

Pretty much. Those who persevered with Ivara developed her tumbling movement style, others enjoyed playing a slower stealthy style and the frame is a success even though many choose not to play it. I LIKE that not all warframes appeal to all players, that tells me the diversity is a success. I just wish others could figure that out.

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13 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

That not what all the posts I’ve been seeing here have been saying.

That's cos most of the posts here are from players who don't play Nyx... I can tell that much just from the things they say that highlight they don't know how to use her.

Edited by -CdG-Zilchy
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Does she need fixing? Wouldn't know as I don't play her much. I'm not keen on her play style and I can do what I need to do with other frames, so I do so.

I don't get it when people compare 1 frame with another and say skill x should be like the skill from the frame they're comparing with. If you like that skill then just play that frame.

It's the same with Loki. Sure, decoy could do with a qol change but his kit is mostly fine as is. Not all frames need to nuke the world full of lv 9999 enemies in an nanosecond ffs.

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14 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

That's nice, except I'm not arguing from my own experience here, I'm arguing from independent statistics. Your attempts at gatekeeping may certainly not be effective at dismissing valid arguments from others, but they certainly do a good job of showing your own vested interests in this sort of conversation.

I don't think you really understood the point being made: at no point did I argue that we should balance all warframes to have the same popularity rate, nor am I advocating for any frame to be made "lazy" (my rework proposal certainly should indicate otherwise), I am simply pointing out that when a warframe has a really, really terrible pick rate, that's usually a sign that something's not quite right with them. Again, that doesn't mean the frame should be made the next Saryn or Wukong, it just means they could likely stand to receive some improvements, depending on the reasons for why they're not doing well. Some frames are more or less popular depending on meta, but sometimes it really is a case of issues with their kit. That is clearly the case with Nyx, whose rework disappointed many players, including players who do play her a lot and wanted something better.

That's interesting, because Banshee's two most famous contributions are spamming her 2 for overlapping Sonar zones, and merely pressing 4 then going AFK in Defense/Interception missions. She absolutely can be played lazily, just like Nyx similarly just has to press 4 for persistent invincibility, it's just that even at their best, these frames still do have some problems.

That's nice, but we're not just talking new players here, we're talking the near-totality of Warframe's playerbase. Nyx is overwhelmingly unpopular, and there is a general consensus as to why. At the end of the day, gatekeeping a frame you like may perhaps work to your own selfish benefit, but unfortunately for you, you're not the only person playing Warframe, and you're going to have to accept that. If you have valid reasons for not changing Nyx besides citing your personal preference and insulting the skill and/or experience of people criticizing her, I'm all ears, but so far those have been the two notes to your entire tune on this thread.

This is a rather interesting attack coming from someone who decided to introduce themselves to another by belittling them and dismissing their valid criticisms for their low play time on a frame. Just like that other person, you seem to be under the impression that you can insult and dismiss others, while still feeling entitled to only the utmost deference based on your self-professed skill at this game. News flash: that's not how civil conversation works, and if you're going to be rude and disrespectful to others, someone is going to point out to you that that's not okay. I respect the fact that you have experience with Nyx, but at the same time I question your motivations on this thread, because clearly your position stems purely from a personal desire to stonewall any discussion that would lead to one of your pet frames changing substantially in any way, rather than any desire to hear out, let alone work with other people who'd potentially be even more dedicated Nyx players than you if she were improved even somewhat.

Interesting, because several other Nyx players on these forums have pointed out otherwise, and corroborated criticism made by many people who have experienced her, even if not to the same extent as you. More to the point, your experience with Nyx is irrelevant when making simple comparisons between some of her abilities and those of others: Psychic Bolts, for example, cannot affect more than 6 enemies at a time, as it says on the tin, whereas many other abilities exist that can strip many more enemies at a time of their entire armor, while also often doing more things on top. You could have played Nyx for 3k+ hours and the conclusion would still be the same.

I do think so, and perhaps this is where we may have to agree to disagree: I can perhaps agree that we shouldn't urgently rework frames if their only problem is one dead ability, and they're doing fine otherwise, but when the frame barely sees any play on top of having abilities that are mediocre or flat-out unusable, that I think makes them a prime target for an update. Nyx is one such frame, as her low play rate is a statistical fact and her abilities can easily be compared to those of many competitors, so she'd definitely benefit from being reworked by a dev who genuinely cares about her.

Quick tip: If you want to have a discussion with someone don't write an essay, I mean I have to eat today as well, don't need to spend all that time reading a load of waffle. This is a games forum not a quantum physics discussion. Seeing as half of your post is this patronising attempt if you cut that out you could probably get it down to half an essay instead. And more importantly you wouldn't be patronising. Note please, I'm not being patronising, I'm being sarcastic because you were patronising me.

1st point: Independent statistics doesn't mean the frame's bad, it means less people pick it and that's ok. It's called diversity, not everyone likes the same things.
 
2nd point: Banshee can be used lazily that's true but you make me laugh saying that's all it's used for. I'm sure those players who enjoy playing a Savage Silence build would love to disagree. And again, that's my point, so what if a majority enjoys using the frame? You have over 40 others to pick from. Who are you to ruin their fun? I don't use Zephyr, do you see me saying it should be reworked? No, cos I know players DO enjoy using Zephyr, just as some enjoy using Nyx.

3rd point: As I've stated before, the only thing that really needs work is the augments. Thematically? That's a different argument, sure she could do with fitting the theme better. But in all honesty a few added synergies to the augments is all that's needed, not a rework. If anything it's her 1st ability that lets her down but let's be honest for a second, how many bad 1st abilities are in the game right now? Used Frost's Freeze ability lately? Or perhaps Ember's fireball? Yeh me neither.

4th point: patronising waffle, moving on. At no point did you say anything useful.

5th point: The majority of players in THIS THREAD(because that's what we're discussing in) are not Nyx players and the ones that are have mainly brought up thematic suggestions. 

6th point: I would like you to list all the frames that have 4 GOOD abilities please. You keep using statistics as your point but the fun thing is, that just means if it's used a lot it appeals to the casual player and the casual player generally prefers lazy playstyles and let me reiterate, that's not healthy for the game. By your logic Wukong does not need a rework right? Even though ONLY ONE ABILITY is used that makes the frame popular. The other 3 abilities cheerfully ignored(unless the player wants to afk with their clone instead of playing the game) and that's not healthy game play. 

Have a nice day. If you choose to reply, please don't be patronising again or write an essay, I haven't got that many hours in the day.

Edited by -CdG-Zilchy
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