If you're not going to devote dev resources to Kahl gameplay, remove it and add the tokens to the archon hunts

[(XBOX)Big Roy 324]

10 hours ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

It would be better if after the 3 missions you do with Khal it would just turn into regular missions (extermination, Capture, defense) that alone would make it much better.

Also more stuff to do with stock, resources, void traces, that mechanic people want to fuse archon shards I honestly don't care just anything to give Khal some attention.

I would be down for this.

I would also add the following caveat.

You start with 3 companion AI.  If you run the mission public. People who join take those slots. (similar to index)

[Bibbleforp]

10 hours ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

It would be better if after the 3 missions you do with Khal it would just turn into regular missions (extermination, Capture, defense) that alone would make it much better.

I think something like this would be the best solution!

After maxing out the syndicate, let us run a variety of simpler missions or replay the story missions for the rewards. The shorter missions could even be based off snippets of the existing missions. Add a system to cap the chipper stock per week, and you've got a version of Kahl I think more people would like.

 

Plus, I think Kahl would enjoy a "Kahl Break Things" mission that's all about grabbing the torch and blowing up stuff in a Narmer factory,

Edited July 17, 2023 by Bibbleforp
Accidentally doubled post.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

16 hours ago, Squick said:

I'm just going to open with this: I'm never running another Kahl mission.

 

Nothing I'm going to say here is new, but you guys haven't done anything to address player complaints. Kahl is too slow. The missions are too repetitive. The bosses aren't interesting and can be downright cheap (Looking at you Wolf with stunlocking), and every time you guys introduce something else to them it just makes them worse. These things are honestly so bad they stain warframe's overall good gameplay. Just make them a brief quest and shift the reward pool to the archon mission.

Seriously, what is with you guys wanting EVERYTHING in Warframe to be this endlessly refreshing game mode. Kahl is ONE game mode of MANY in this game, with a cycle of play not designed to be as extensive as Warframe the game. It's fun when fresh, and starts to age over time...just like every single thing in any game ever made. 

Take a break from it, (just like everything overdone), play something different and then come back periodically for a change of pace after cycling through the other 50 game modes this game offers.

[Voltage]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Big Roy 324 said:

You start with 3 companion AI.  If you run the mission public. People who join take those slots. (similar to index)

And just like the Index, you would have a solo AFK setup form to let the AI play for you. We should be distancing from Specters, not embracing them.

1 hour ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Seriously, what is with you guys wanting EVERYTHING in Warframe to be this endlessly refreshing game mode. Kahl is ONE game mode of MANY in this game, with a cycle of play not designed to be as extensive as Warframe the game. It's fun when fresh, and starts to age over time...just like every single thing in any game ever made. 

Take a break from it, (just like everything overdone), play something different and then come back periodically for a change of pace after cycling through the other 50 game modes this game offers.

Taking a break from a FOMO shop isn't the best advice. It would be more helpful to tell them to ignore it completely (which is what they are doing). There's almost no point in engaging with a reward system like Archon Shards/Kahl's Garrison if you are only engaging with it once every couple weeks or months, especially when you're not a huge fan of the gameplay it adds either. The novelty of Kahl's missions ware off before you even finish the one time rewards in all honesty, and each time you buy a one time reward, you're forfeiting the purchase of the time limited Shard offered.

People want things in their favorite game that age well. Kahl is not one of those examples, unless you're looking to grow mold maybe?

Edited July 18, 2023 by Voltage

[sunderthefirmament]

2 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Seriously, what is with you guys wanting EVERYTHING in Warframe to be this endlessly refreshing game mode. Kahl is ONE game mode of MANY in this game, with a cycle of play not designed to be as extensive as Warframe the game. It's fun when fresh, and starts to age over time...just like every single thing in any game ever made. 

If Kahl isn't supposed to be endlessly refreshing, why was he designed as an endless weekly grind?

[RichardKam]

DE should just assign a few newly hired programmer / designer to make more missions for Kahl, like a small project or something.

3 static missions for Kahl is a blasphemy.

[Squick]

4 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Seriously, what is with you guys wanting EVERYTHING in Warframe to be this endlessly refreshing game mode. Kahl is ONE game mode of MANY in this game, with a cycle of play not designed to be as extensive as Warframe the game. It's fun when fresh, and starts to age over time...just like every single thing in any game ever made.

It launched with 3 missions, bugs and feedback were totally ignored while every change they did make only made it more frustrating to deal with. I don't need endlessly refreshing, I want what is there to not be filled with ancient bugs.

 

As others have said, it's not like this is the only example of abandoning content. I stopped running eidolons once I had the arcanes I needed because they're a bug-filled mess filled with poor visual cues and lots of annoyances, and the timing on them leads to incredible toxicity.

[xcrimsonlegendx]

I do my Khal mission every week, I don't even need the cred, I've already got all of the items. I just enjoy the gameplay, even if its incredibly, mind-numbingly repetitive at this point. When the first week of Veil breaker came out, I played Sneaky sabotage like 10 times just for fun. Was a refreshing change of pace to the normal Warframe stuff, though I thoroughly enjoyed the New War stuff too. I can see why folks are sick of it though, its only 3 missions that repeat endlessly so I don't expect everyone to continue on like I do.

Though I don't really get the complaint that Khal is to slow, what do you want him to be flying around bullet jumping through the map like a frog? As for the bosses, I genuinely enjoy the thumper fight, first time I did that it was great having an army of Grineer at my back, flying around with a jetpack and stuff. Only one that's really a problem is the wolf, if you don't stay airborn and slam him with the grattler you're going to get wiped out.

[taiiat]

i'd rather play Kahl than Archon Hunts, if i had to choose.

it's less boring. a bit repetitive, but that's easily helped with more Maps/Missions created. Archon Hunts are inherently boring :)

[ReddyDisco]

More missions would be good tbh, the 3 on repeat has gotten stale and boring. I haven't done a kahl mission in 2 months or more.

[Circle_of_Psi]

10 hours ago, (XBOX)Tanta Cinta said:

 You're moving on from a thread that discusses some crucial points in why Kahl gameplay is underwhelming and disappointing? How are you not seeing how repetitive the missions are........ 

cuz someone didn't read my other comment, ooof

[SneakyErvin]

11 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Take a break from it, (just like everything overdone), play something different and then come back periodically for a change of pace after cycling through the other 50 game modes this game offers.

Kinda hard to do when something so specific as an archon shard is part of it. This isnt just picking between disruption, defense, capture or survival etc. to get or crack X relic. This is content with very specific and time gated loot. So we pretty much need to bit the bullet and just do it.

Just today when I sat down to do the weekly I yelled at the screen "again you #*!%ing idiot!?" when I noticed Kahl had once again managed to misplace his floot on a Murex. Massive logic, such immersion! What does he do? Sleep pilot his ship into the space cooch, drop his floof and then go back the morning after to "rescue friends"?

[Hypernaut1]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

 This is content with very specific and time gated loot. So we pretty much need to bit the bullet and just do it.

 

No. No you don't have to "bite the bullet" and just do it. 

The items he offers are very skippable after doing it for a few weeks. If a player wants to obsess over extra shards, that's on them. There's other and better ways to earn shards. 

It would be a waste of time for the devs to put extra resources towards it. Especially if long time players like you are still engaging with it, from their perspective that makes it look like a success. 

I played it, had my fill and stopped. I'm sure that's all DE wanted. 

Edited July 18, 2023 by Hypernaut1

[Rixuel]

how about let us upgrade kahl so we can complete his repetitive missions quicker? lol

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

I would prefer if we get Veso R back. If that model isn't avaliable, then that crewmen we rescue can do the same job as Veso. From a Lore perspective, just say the Cewman knows more about the Corpus facility than a Grineer. That's why he's taking the mission. 

More mission variety would be nice. Not to mention a different playstyle is refreshing.

[(XBOX)Big Roy 324]

15 hours ago, Voltage said:

And just like the Index, you would have a solo AFK setup form to let the AI play for you. We should be distancing from Specters, not embracing them.

Are people running index AFK solo letting the AI do all the work?

I didn't even know that was a thing.

I was just thinking the draw of kahl was having brothers.  So they don't need to be real effective.  Just present. But if you run with other players they become the brothers.

They're all clones so having copies of Kahl shouldn't be too immersion breaking. 

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

15 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

If Kahl isn't supposed to be endlessly refreshing, why was he designed as an endless weekly grind?

Because it offers a cycle of content, in a giant pool of content, that you can go back to for unique rewards. That said, more of Kahl is coming (he's important in the Narmer lore), so it's a good chance another wave of missions will pop up. 

[sunderthefirmament]

13 hours ago, taiiat said:

it's less boring. a bit repetitive, but that's easily helped with more Maps/Missions created

 

13 hours ago, taiiat said:

more Maps/Missions created

 

13 hours ago, taiiat said:

easily

 

I don't think it's easy at all.  Why else would new tilesets/tileset reworks be so few and far between?  I'm not a developer of course, so I really don't know for sure.  But based on the frequency that we get new currencies and shops, I think an easier solution to the Kahl problem would be to make a resource sink shop for stock.

 

13 hours ago, xcrimsonlegendx said:

When the first week of Veil breaker came out, I played Sneaky sabotage like 10 times just for fun. Was a refreshing change of pace to the normal Warframe stuff,

It truly takes all kinds.  When Veilbreaker came out, I slogged through the quest, ignoring the combat after I realized there wasn't any point to actually killing the enemies with Kahl's awful weaponry, and then alt-F4ed within the first 10 seconds of Sneaky Sabotage.  If I want to play a stealthy immersive sim that's actually well made, I'll quit out of Warframe and boot up a game from the Dishonored series, Prey, or Deathloop.  I don't need a "refreshing change of pace" from Warframe.  This game is trying to be too many games.  It's trying to do it all.  And when you try to do it all, what you usually end up doing you do poorly.  Kahl is just one particularly egregious example of DE overextending itself.

 

1 hour ago, (PSN)jaggerwanderer said:

I would prefer if we get Veso R back.

Please, no.  Veso's environmental puzzles would age even worse than Kahl's limp shooter mechanics.  Have you noticed how it's not terribly engaging to repeat the same environmental puzzles every three weeks when Sneaky Sabotage rolls around?  The only variation DE has been able to give us in those puzzles is different symbols.  That's it.  Imagine ordering your MOA or Osprey to perform the same task in the same tile week after week after week.

3 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

That said, more of Kahl is coming (he's important in the Narmer lore), so it's a good chance another wave of missions will pop up. 

I haven't been able to catch any of the recent devstreams.  Has DE confirmed that more Kahl quests/missions are coming, or is this speculation on your part based on where you think the story will go next?

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

1 hour ago, (PSN)jaggerwanderer said:

I would prefer if we get Veso R back. If that model isn't avaliable, then that crewmen we rescue can do the same job as Veso. From a Lore perspective, just say the Cewman knows more about the Corpus facility than a Grineer. That's why he's taking the mission. 

More mission variety would be nice. Not to mention a different playstyle is refreshing.

Agreed. Maybe we will see this in the next Narmer update cycle. Now that Duviri has arrived, I suspect the next main update could be the big revenge tour for the Corpus dude.

[CrownOfShadows]

4 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Agreed. Maybe we will see this in the next Narmer update cycle. Now that Duviri has arrived, I suspect the next main update could be the big revenge tour for the Corpus dude.

OMG I hope not. I want some actual warframe to play again.

[taiiat]

5 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

I don't think it's easy at all.  Why else would new tilesets/tileset reworks be so few and far between?  I'm not a developer of course, so I really don't know for sure.  But based on the frequency that we get new currencies and shops, I think an easier solution to the Kahl problem would be to make a resource sink shop for stock.

easy as in, they're probably going to do that anyways from time to time, therefore makes it 'easy', as not something that has to be specifically targeted in addition.

[Marvelous_A]

It's so boring and there's absolutely no variety in these missions. You can't even use Twin Grakata and cosplay Clem in a Grineer mission, seriously why is that? Also Karak, Sheev, Ogris, Argonak, Hind? I surely don't build a Grineer arsenal just for me to use a f***ing Exergis on a Grineer grunt right?

Edited July 18, 2023 by Marvelous_A

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

28 minutes ago, CrownOfShadows said:

OMG I hope not. I want some actual warframe to play again.

It never left, and we just got the Circuit. What am I missing?

[Voltage]

1 hour ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

It never left, and we just got the Circuit. What am I missing?

Anecdotally, there seemed to have be more vocal praise for Conjunction Survival than most updates in the last few years. That's pretty telling.

Warframe is not "killing it's own game" or anything those doom-threads would post, but it's definitely alienating it's older players and making the game feel overall less focused on what made it so good to begin with, with a massive failure on refining what it has already for a long time now.

As suggested by many, Kahl could greatly improve from things that have improved Warframes. This game didn't always have good movement, good melee combat, or interesting gamemodes that put equipment to proper use. However non-Warframe combat (Necramech, Drifter, Kahl, Railjack, Archwing etc.) have all launched (and some still) in a state that forgot all these improvements. Stamina in Railjack and Necramechs are the perfect example of this. This trend in content leads to resentment from players about their account arsenal every time DE shows off the latest non-Warframe introduction.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Voltage

[CrownOfShadows]

3 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

It never left, and we just got the Circuit. What am I missing?

SMH

You're missing the main release, Duviri, in which you do not play warframes. You're missing the release prior to Duviri, Veilbreaker, in which you do not play warframes. You're missing the release before that, the New War, in which you mostly do not play warframes.

Conjunction survival was the only recent thing where we did, and that was kind of a bone toss. The circuit is ok, and some things about it I quite like, but it's more like ESO on steroids than regular warframe. Of course, you know all that, you're just being a jerk on purpose for some reason, I guess you love the circuit and felt offended that I didn't acknowledge it.