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[VertxPrime]

deleted:changes made this no longer valid

Edited June 27 by VertxPrime
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[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

When it released there wasn't an urgency to get it like you're having now, it seems like you feel it's p2w because you want to start the new war asap.

I would personally recommend you crafting instead of buying it

[fo3nixz]

pay2skip , if u cant farm or dont wana wait (lot of us farmed this good old fashioned painful way when it came out, its a quest, it will be for ever here)

Edited September 13, 2023 by fo3nixz

[TARINunit9]

16 minutes ago, VertxPrime said:

it's locked behind an 82 hour craft time (not even warframes take this long to build)

Yes they do. Equinox even takes 128 hours

[fo3nixz]

1 minute ago, TARINunit9 said:

Yes they do. Equinox even takes 128 hours

ah equinox the only frame i farmed 3 times, ( 1st one deleted when i got prime, then 2nd for something else, and 3rd for helmith) fun times lol

[(PSN)MYKK678]

35 minutes ago, VertxPrime said:

trying to get one now...

Its a requirement to enter the new war

it's locked behind an 82 hour craft time (not even warframes take this long to build)

requires more parts than warframes to build

its requiring hours running isolation vaults framing parts

its requiring hours more of mining and crafting, and mining more so I can craft the things I already mined.

its probably going to need leveling up and all regular mod stuff

for what ? a 2 minute summon of basically a worse "warframe" on 10 minute cooldown that can be used almost NOWHERE in the game, is that right ?

or you can cough up 375 plat to skip get it instantly and not have to farm and craft for weeks to get straight onto new war and never need it again?

really has to be one of the most pay to win feeling things I have run into in this game, change my mind !

Well your math is off so considering your entire point hinges on it being correct, you no longer have one.

 

Examples:

72 + 12 does not equal 82

84 ÷ 24 does not equal "Weeks"

I'd suggest taking the theory back to the drawing board and starting over.

[LittleLeoniePrime]

26 minutes ago, fo3nixz said:

pay2skip

this. you don't win anything when you're able to do the new war. it's merely the beginning of the game tbh...

and you'd probably be better off having the spare resources from farming it C:

[(XBOX)Hellsteeth30]

I paid 97 plat for mine, best use of a 75% off coupon ever.

I didn't win anything with it though, just skipped a god awful grind.

Great news though! You use it for 10 minutes but don't really need to mod it.  Mod grind being more insufferable than the grind to get the Mech.

[-Krism-]

Of everything you've stated, none of them are pay2win

[(PSN)Unstar]

I suppose I can see how it might look that way to someone who joined the game more recently.  But it's not going to look like that to most long-time players because of the actual history of Necramechs being introduced to the game.

When Necramechs were first added to the game, they were not required for any content.  You could not purchase them, You could only farm them.  And they were harder to farm than they are now, with lower drop rates and higher material requirements.

It was only after enough players asked to be able to purchase Necramechs that they became purchasable items in the market Market several months after their initial launch.

And it wouldn't be until 1 year later that Necramechs would actually be required for something: The New War.  In advance of this milestone, DE nerfed the difficulty of building Necramechs.  From the patch notes released 1 month before The New War:

Quote

Necramechs have started to play a vital role within the System - from being part of the Railjack experience, to a great tool in our Open Worlds. While their firepower provides an advantage, the time and resource investment required to obtain one has shown to be a deterrent to newer players. As The New War approaches, we aim to alleviate that initial friction and provide an easier path of obtainment.

Enemy Necramechs now have a 50% chance to drop a Necramech part across the board, evenly distributed. The battle required to defeat an enemy Necramech is not easy nor quick. This increased chance of getting a Necramech part helps to reduce the time investment needed in order to gather the mandatory parts to build your first Necramech.

Additionally, we’ve halved most of the Mining/Fishing part costs for crafting the Voidrig as this is the ‘first’ Necramech players see in the Heart of Deimos quest, so we want to make acquiring it a little easier. Bonewidow has been left as is as a longer-term goal.

 

A few months after the New War was released, DE looked at the data and saw that lack of Necramechs were a contributing factor to some players still not doing The New War.  So they made them even easier to get.  From the patch notes:

Quote

• Completing the Heart of Deimos quest will now reward you with the Voidrig Blueprint,  Voidrig Weapon Blueprint, Voidrig Capsule Blueprint, Voidrig Engine Blueprint, and Voidrig Casing Blueprint in the post-quest Inbox.
  • As a follow up to our Necramech Drop Rate & Crafting Cost Changes from Update 30.9.0, we wanted to add another way to set up players for success as they continue their journey to The New War and other content that requires a Necramech to participate.

 

Now, is this perfect?  Depends on who you ask.  Some people think it's fine, and some people think it would probably be better if Necramechs were even easier for new players to get.  But regardless of where you think the needle is on that aspect of balance, the reality is that DE has made numerous changes that made Necramechs easier than ever to get at the exact time that Necramechs were becoming required content.  That doesn't read as a pay-to-skip scheme to me.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

When it released there wasn't an urgency to get it like you're having now, it seems like you feel it's p2w because you want to start the new war asap.

I would personally recommend you crafting instead of buying it

Or, here me out, you could just use trading to get plat for the mech or use it to buy all of the parts for really cheap and then use the bp that they (thankfully) added in to skip the Loid standing grind you need to unlock new war.

Edited September 13, 2023 by (XBOX)Upl0rdYT

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

1 hour ago, VertxPrime said:

trying to get one now...

Its a requirement to enter the new war

it's locked behind an 82 hour craft time (not even warframes take this long to build)

requires more parts than warframes to build

its requiring hours running isolation vaults framing parts

its requiring hours more of mining and crafting, and mining more so I can craft the things I already mined.

its probably going to need leveling up and all regular mod stuff

for what ? a 2 minute summon of basically a worse "warframe" on 10 minute cooldown that can be used almost NOWHERE in the game, is that right ?

or you can cough up 375 plat to skip get it instantly and not have to farm and craft for weeks to get straight onto new war and never need it again?

really has to be one of the most pay to win feeling things I have run into in this game, change my mind !

You can trade for the necramech parts (damaged or repaired) which skips the harder portion of the grind. DE specifically gave the blueprint for free after completing the deimos quest so now you can effectively get one for dirt cheap instead of having to grind a ton of iso vaults for the (untradable) blueprint that you had to buy from Loid. 

Also Voidrig > Bonewidow.

25 minutes ago, (XBOX)Hellsteeth30 said:

 

Great news though! You use it for 10 minutes but don't really need to mod it.  Mod grind being more insufferable than the grind to get the Mech.

Ironically you barely need to mod it either because voidrig's 4 does so much damage anyways (assuming that's the main reason why you'd even use the mech in RJ or Open World missions anyways).

Edited September 13, 2023 by (XBOX)Upl0rdYT

[fo3nixz]

 

or if u got bps and dont wana farm damaged parts:

 

[Stormandreas]

Pay 2 Win implies you're winning something. You are not, this is not a competitive PvP game, you aren't winning, you are skipping. It's simply Pay 2 Skip.

But... oh noooo... you have to play the game to progress... oh dear... Yes, this is snarky, because yes, it's a silly complaint. This is a free to play game that requires you to spend time playing and grinding to get anywhere. You aren't just handed everything on a platter for free, you have to put effort in, or, put money in if you CBA doing the effort, that's how free to play, and honestly, most games, work.

[NinjaZeku]

1 hour ago, VertxPrime said:

it's locked behind an 82 hour craft time (not even warframes take this long to build)

It's 84 hours, same as most Frames, Chroma and Equinox take even longer.

1 hour ago, VertxPrime said:

requires more parts than warframes to build

Again, check out Chroma and Equinox.

1 hour ago, VertxPrime said:

its requiring hours running isolation vaults framing parts

Mechs drop parts 50% of the time, and they are tradable so trade your spares for what you need, hardly the most egregious farm in the game.

1 hour ago, VertxPrime said:

its requiring hours more of mining and crafting, and mining more so I can craft the things I already mined.

Complaining you have to craft something in Warframe after going so far as reaching The New War seems ... odd, TBH.

The resource gathering part I can more get behind, stuff like Necrathene mining and Scintillant farming
(if you didn't notice the latter can just be picked up in the Vault areas lol) is certainly not great.

1 hour ago, VertxPrime said:

its probably going to need leveling up and all regular mod stuff

Yes, you're kinda supposed to rank up and mod a new thing you got.

Again, this should not come as a surprise at this point.

(Nevermind that The New War is really not a gear check actually.)

1 hour ago, VertxPrime said:

for what ? a 2 minute summon of basically a worse "warframe" on 10 minute cooldown that can be used almost NOWHERE in the game, is that right ?

There is no cooldown / limited use in Free-Roam or Railjack, unless you allow your Necramech to get destroyed.

1 hour ago, VertxPrime said:

really has to be one of the most pay to win feeling things I have run into in this game, change my mind !

What are you winning?

You are depriving yourself of content if you just skip it all via Plat.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

1 hour ago, VertxPrime said:

trying to get one now...

or you could just trade plat until you can afford to bu one outright. IIRC it coems with mods and a Rector Installed as well. you can also skip the parts farming by trading.

2 hours ago, VertxPrime said:

for what ? a 2 minute summon of basically a worse "warframe" on 10 minute cooldown that can be used almost NOWHERE in the game, is that right ?

that only applies in Conjunction survival; you can use mechs as much as you want on Open Worlds maps (Plains, Orb Vallis and Deimos) and in railjack missions both aboard the Railjack and when aboard enemy bases/ships. the cooldown only applies there if the mech is destroyed, but with a full complement of mods, the Voidrig is actually VERY hard for enemies to kill, even in railjack. 

as for "pay 2 win"... I wish people would stop using terms they don't fully understand. 

[Pakaku]

3 hours ago, VertxPrime said:

for what ? a 2 minute summon of basically a worse "warframe" on 10 minute cooldown that can be used almost NOWHERE in the game, is that right ?

Yes, exactly. Necramechs are a dead-end in terms of viable content. New War was a pointless gear check and could have been worked around by just lending us Snake if we didn't have a necramech. (And as for railjacks... a Tempestarii cameo would have been really cool)

Edited September 13, 2023 by Pakaku

[taiiat]

Mechs were introduced long before New War, they were Content to grind when they were introduced.

however, New War may be late as a Quest in terms of linear order, but it's easy to start a new Account and be at New War before you've collected the majority of the Mods or before you've reached Arbitration/Steel Path, Et Cetera. basically it's easier to hit these Quests than what Players would have generally been at gearwise when the Quests were introduced new to the game.

so that makes it easy to feel like it's trying to prevent you from accessing, but it isn't actually trying to be that way. 

 

also the Mech Cooldown got changed a couple Years after their introduction, it's not as terrible anymore. thesedays if your Mech gets destroyed it's a uh... 30 Second Cooldown, i think?
and you can Teleport it to you basically as often as you'd like if it hasn't been destroyed. there's a minimum delay for it to be automatically Healed while being Teleported, but you can move it as much as you like.
and you can run around in the Mech for Hours if you really want.

you can use Mechs on Landscapes and in Railjack, for what that's worth. not in every Mission, and that's a bit unfortunate, but oh well.

[VertxPrime]

*snip

Edited June 27 by VertxPrime

[MagPrime]

3 hours ago, VertxPrime said:

trying to get one now...

Its a requirement to enter the new war

it's locked behind an 82 hour craft time (not even warframes take this long to build)

requires more parts than warframes to build

its requiring hours running isolation vaults framing parts

its requiring hours more of mining and crafting, and mining more so I can craft the things I already mined.

its probably going to need leveling up and all regular mod stuff

for what ? a 2 minute summon of basically a worse "warframe" on 10 minute cooldown that can be used almost NOWHERE in the game, is that right ?

or you can cough up 375 plat to skip get it instantly and not have to farm and craft for weeks to get straight onto new war and never need it again?

really has to be one of the most pay to win feeling things I have run into in this game, change my mind !

It's not pay2win simply because having the Mech doesn't get you much.  You have to level it you have to get mods for it & you have to level it's weapon.  It's barely pay2skip because of the time & resources needed to get all MR out of it (it goes to R40) and the farming that goes into getting the mods from Loid if you don't want to buy them off other players.

It is a massive investment don't get me wrong but it's also useable in multiple locations like all the open world maps, some Lua & some Void.  (I say some because I can't remember if there are exceptions) 

I personally bought it, because I didn't want to deal with the grind to get it and I have poor impulse control.  I'd rather drop some plat than become resentful of the game via farming.

[LuckyCharm]

As much as people are defending de here saying just buy it, or calculating numbers for grind times, its still a ridiculous requirement for a quest that didnt need it. You use it for about 3 minutes and then leave it again. I could have done that part of the quest with my warframe quicker and easier too since its essentially just the same thing as youd already done a few times earlier in that story mission just with the necramech. Theres no reason it should have been there. 

If anything it should have loaned you one so players who dont have one could experiment and see if they want to buy or farm one. Thats what those quests seem to be about after all, getting new mechanics thrown at you is what they do. 

As someone who plays infrequently these days, only when theres something new and interesting to do, for me itd be like saying "caliban required" making me grind for em, build it etc, then use it for all of 3 minutes before the operator takes over again. Would be a right annoyance 

[-Krism-]

10 hours ago, VertxPrime said:

I can literally pay money to skip the grind and continue the story how is that not pay2win? unless you don't consider buying progress with real money pay2win for some reason ?

Exactly what Mag said

[Ghogiel]

I bought the thing when it came out because the grind was that bad. But I've been around since closed beta and my account is not comparable to a player starting in the last few years.  Unless they've bought a lot of plat or managed to trade to get 10s of thousands of plat it's apples and oranges from either perspective.

But the problem calling it p2w, is there isn't really a concrete advantage you get over other players. Other players  for example have some mastery xp that you won't have. But besides being able to access content associated with the voidrig/using it in open world, the only thing those levels other players have over you only affects things on their account, like a frames rank 0 mod points and daily rep caps etc. It doesn't give them a power up that allows them to beat you better/faster. 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Ghogiel

[Hobie-wan]

If only there were other things you could do in the game while stuff was crafting instead of staring at the foundry watching your stuff cook.

 

 

 

 

 

 

...oh wait.

[Quimoth]

With this type of logic... Warframe is p2w all over.

Luckily it is s(kip)2w at most... but then again what are you "winning" by doing so in a pve game?

PvP in Warframe has no mechs and even if it did it probably would only revive PvP for a moment because barely anyone here ever launched Warframe for the PvP experience.