Do you think DE will ever fix fissures?

[Stormandreas]

1 hour ago, Skoomaseller said:

how is it the player's fault when the game keeps releasing new things that help us kill enemies even faster? becoming more powerful is like, the point of nearly every mainline update. 

killing is also literally the point/secondary point of most star chart missions. exterminate? kill. mobile defense? kill. defense? disruption? survival? 

surely you and everyone else blaming OP notice that maybe, just maybe, some older things should be revised to keep up with current day Warframe? instead of shrugging it off as nonsense? or are you guys just content with letting things be as they are, even if it isn't right?

farming? we have so many ways to farm most resources more effectively & efficiently now, outside of very, very few resources. does that spawn cap argument hold up today?

(ps: the answer is no, anything else is nonsense.)

You can dismiss what everyone says all you want, the matter of the fact is, this system was put in place because it's HIGHLY exploitable. Infinte spawning was exploited in the past, which is entirely why that system exists.

That's it, that's the reason. It's not rocket science to just wait for enemies to be corrupted before killing them.

[sunderthefirmament]

2 minutes ago, Stormandreas said:

It's not rocket science to just wait for enemies to be corrupted before killing them.

I don’t think anyone here who takes issue with the reactant system needs help learning how to reach extraction with full reactant. People aren’t looking for tips to figure out a dilemma in the game. They’re providing feedback about what they perceive to be a flaw in the game, or at least a discrepancy between game design and gameplay. To sum it up, why should I engage with new forms of power creep when increasing my damage and efficiency is more likely to result in soft failure states for some of the most rewarding mission types?  It’s counterintuitive that we have to find some sort of Goldilocks level of killing speed to unlock full rewards for a mission.

 

DE keeps feeding us ways to maximize our kills per second. But maximizing our kills per second is partially breaking older mission types. Perhaps DE should take another look at reactant in the context of modern Warframe. 

[KIREEK]

2 hours ago, Voltage said:

If a player was AFK, they would miss out on mission rewards anyway, due to ineligibility.

There's a difference between going to 3 portals  or gathering the 10 reactant along the way and remaining afk with minimal movement so that you get the rewards.

If players move just a tiny bit to avoid the afk tag, then that's what players will do, all while you farm for them.

DE is fine with these ocasional missions that just don't work out well if it prevents mass afk gameplay. No, moving 5 meters at a time is not gameplay.

[(PSN)Unstar]

Yeah, it seems very clunky and broken that it's possible to fail at the main reason you entered a mission because you were too effective at killing things in the kill lots of things game.

[(PSN)Unstar]

OP: "It would be nice if we could do this thing in an enjoyable and convenient way."

Somehow, people in the replies: "You wouldn't have this problem if you just did it in an unenjoyable and inconvenient way."

[trst]

There's nothing here for DE to fix.

It's both entirely the player's fault for either not letting enemies get corrupted and/or finishing the mission too fast. Plus even with the risk of ruining the mission for yourself it's still the fastest mission/fissure type. So if DE "fixed" anything it'd just make it even faster and have no failure state, and while DE doesn't care much for the lack of failure states they do care about missions being too fast.

[sunderthefirmament]

19 minutes ago, trst said:

There's nothing here for DE to fix.

So it’s totally fine that a player can load into a quick fissure when everyone else is already at extraction?  I think it’s a massive flaw and it wastes everyone’s time.  Some players on older consoles can be out ~2 minutes or more to load in, and then ~2 minutes or more to load back out. It’s disrespectful.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

28 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

So it’s totally fine that a player can load into a quick fissure when everyone else is already at extraction?

Capture missions can be done in less than a minute maybe two normally. There's nothing to do unless they artificially make the mission take longer. Best case scenario is either extract and have everyone ready for the next mission or use recruit chat so you don't start late.

[sunderthefirmament]

8 minutes ago, (XBOX)Shodian said:

Capture missions can be done in less than a minute maybe two normally. There's nothing to do unless they artificially make the mission take longer. Best case scenario is either extract and have everyone ready for the next mission or use recruit chat so you don't start late.

Reactant could also be shared like in void storms in RJ. This has already been suggested in this thread. 

[Voltage]

3 hours ago, Stafelund said:

Thanks for that information. Even after 2 mins it feels like there are a lot of enemies so it gives the illusion of them still spawning.

Yeah, it really depends on what the spawn status is before capturing the target. If you're like 5/10 Reactant at that point, there's a good chance you're fine. However, if someone is like, Titania, and they just blitz to the objective, you may end up short and forced to abort.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

50 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

Reactant could also be shared like in void storms in RJ. This has already been suggested in this thread. 

I think the only reason that is like that is the objectives are so far apart and usually someone has to stay with the railjack. When it first launched it wasn't like that.

[trst]

1 hour ago, sunderthefirmament said:

So it’s totally fine that a player can load into a quick fissure when everyone else is already at extraction?  I think it’s a massive flaw and it wastes everyone’s time.  Some players on older consoles can be out ~2 minutes or more to load in, and then ~2 minutes or more to load back out. It’s disrespectful.

That's an entirely different topic from what this thread is about, that being that you can cause yourself to run out of enemies before hitting 10 reactant.

 

As for the loading in issue there's not much that can be fixed there unless Capture missions get the join lockout triggered within seconds of the mission starting. And even then there's no solution for those on old hardware who can't load in by the time a mission finishes aside from upgrading. And giving them a free pass where they could just load in at extraction with 10 reactant would be disrespectful to anyone actually doing the mission. After all why should players on low grade hardware be given open Relics literally for free?

[sunderthefirmament]

1 hour ago, trst said:

That's an entirely different topic from what this thread is about, that being that you can cause yourself to run out of enemies before hitting 10 reactant.

Fair, but I would argue that late loaders end up in the same position as people that move too quickly: stuck at extraction without enough reactant.  The end result is the same.  Shared reactant would help ameliorate both problems, and is already a system that DE has implemented elsewhere.  Changing the spawns could work too, I suppose.  Recently, rushing through Abyssal Exterminates has shown how moving back and forth between tiles can force spawn enemies when needed.

 

1 hour ago, trst said:

And giving them a free pass where they could just load in at extraction with 10 reactant would be disrespectful to anyone actually doing the mission. After all why should players on low grade hardware be given open Relics literally for free?

If a TS Titania loads in before me and beeps their way to extraction, did I disrespect them by bullet jumping after them, several rooms behind?  I was trying to contribute with my max range Maim, but nothing can keep up with a TS Titania.  All of this is to say I doubt the TS Titania in my hypothetical situation would feel disrespected.  Similarly, I load in to every mission fully prepared to solo carry it if need be.  In these fissures, the late loaders or people that can't keep up still contribute by bringing a relic that they earned.

 

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Shodian said:

I think the only reason that is like that is the objectives are so far apart and usually someone has to stay with the railjack. When it first launched it wasn't like that.

Sure, but it's something that DE feasibly could add to other void fissures, and it would likely improve the experience over all.  The elephant in the room here is that DE doesn't want us moving through content quickly.  When you play a F2P game, you willingly engage with some player-hostile systems because the developer wants you to spend money to ease the grind.   I know and accept this, and enjoy the game regardless.  But I think DE could still smooth these issues out, because as I've mentioned, they appear to be at odds with their reward philosophy. 

 

"Here, take this shiny new <archon shard/arcane/galvanized mod/Helminth ability/warframe>, but don't actually use it to its fullest and fastest potential, because then you'll break the content!  Never mind that we have many, many game modes and scenarios already in the game where killing things quickly is either incentivized or completely mandatory.  Enjoy, but at just the right speed."

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

13 hours ago, kyori said:

A reply from some guy in DE the other day "it is not worth a programmer to spend 1 month just fixing 1 problem".

That was a completely different situation and that comment was absolutely correct. This thread's issue needs a fix but you throwing that BS shade from a far different issue was stupid. 

[Illegal_Squirell]

2 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

"Here, take this shiny new <archon shard/arcane/galvanized mod/Helminth ability/warframe>, but don't actually use it to its fullest and fastest potential, because then you'll break the content!  Never mind that we have many, many game modes and scenarios already in the game where killing things quickly is either incentivized or completely mandatory.  Enjoy, but at just the right speed."

One mission type. You don't use them at their fullest for one mission type. A type where endgame gear is unnecessary mind you. It won't be as fast as normal capture, but is the reward similar? Nope. Is it a bad and boring design? Maybe, but if DE finally decides to remove boring mechanics then there are lots more they could do other than removing a still fairly engaging mode, like removing defense or survival for example.

 

4 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

That was a completely different situation and that comment was absolutely correct. This thread's issue needs a fix but you throwing that BS shade from a far different issue was stupid. 

What? You mean I can't just misquote someone? Oh, the humanity!

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

That happens maybe once every 12 days. 

Also, yes....maybe stop rushing the map before everyone has even loaded into the mission. 

It's really not hard to have an ounce of self control for 4 seconds.

[Traumtulpe]

8 hours ago, trst said:

There's nothing here for DE to fix.

It's both entirely the player's fault for either not letting enemies get corrupted and/or finishing the mission too fast.

Admirable effort at aiming for "worst take of the day". Here's your medal, champ.

[Ghastly-Ghoul]

Personally, I think they should remove fissures and just give us loot boxes that let us gamble for prime parts.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

30 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

Admirable effort at aiming for "worst take of the day". Here's your medal, champ.

Admirable effort for aiming at avoiding any responsibility at all on the player's side.

[Marvelous_A]

Why are reactants a thing even? Do they actually serve any real purpose?

They are really just unnecessary progress-stoppers that exist for no good reason. And some people actually defend the way [DE]ncent wasting everyone's time.

"Yeah you overperform with the equipment we provided. Here is some waiting for you."

Edited November 8, 2023 by Marvelous_A

[Skoomaseller]

3 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Admirable effort for aiming at avoiding any responsibility at all on the player's side.

admirable effort in defending things that really should be fixed.

player's responsibility lmao. sorry for taking advantage of the new shiny tools provided by DE to kill better, I will bring a mk1 braton/base lato/skana with no forma or potato next time.

my bad! 🙏🏽

[sunderthefirmament]

8 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

That happens maybe once every 12 days. 

Also, yes....maybe stop rushing the map before everyone has even loaded into the mission. 

It's really not hard to have an ounce of self control for 4 seconds.

Lotus tells players that they need to find reactant. Maybe Rebecca should record some new voice lines. 
 

“Whoa there, Tenno!  Slow down!  If you kill enemies too quickly you won’t get enough reactant!”

 

”Sorry, Tenno. You shouldn’t be moving so fast!  I know you’ve spent thousands of hours beefing up your arsenal and perfecting the deep and engaging movement system, it’s just that it’s bad for our Prime Access sales when Tenno like you open relics too fast.”

 

“Hey there, Tenno. It looks like you’ve skipped the opening cutscene and are now barreling towards extraction. Have an ounce of self control, won’t you?” 
 

Like I’ve mentioned before in this thread, no one here needs your suggestions for how to avoid this problem.  We already know. We are just offering feedback to DE about a system that is flawed from our perspective.  I’ll close by asking you to have a little self control yourself.  You don’t need to pop into every thread that offers fair and reasonable critique for DE with the same tired response of “it’s the players’ fault; the developers can do no wrong.”  Some of us want this game to be better.

[BansheeAndZephyrMarried]

7 hours ago, Marvelous_A said:

Why are reactants a thing even? Do they actually serve any real purpose?

They are really just unnecessary progress-stoppers that exist for no good reason. And some people actually defend the way [DE]ncent wasting everyone's time.

"Yeah you overperform with the equipment we provided. Here is some waiting for you."

I understand DE not wanting people to gain Prime parts- which are probably the biggest lure for people to first dip their toes into player trading- while AFK. They have legitimate gameplay and economic incentives to not want that. 

Some of the frustrations with low level fissures can be solved by DE reverting their nerfs regarding enemy spawns in capture and exterminate missions. Even when they were first implemented to clamp down on Focus farming- which was, at the time, the newest long term grind- it wasn't a good response. Them messing with enemy spawns is another reason excavation fissures are less fun than they should be. 

Nobody needs to "cheese" Focus farm with Loki in exterminate now. Nobody needs to "cheese" Oxium farm in capture now. DE has slowly but surely phased out the reasons and circumstances that made a lot of players reach for those farms back then. DE never reviewing the changes they implemented is part of what long time players mean when they say DE "abandons" old content. 

On top of that, I'm going to add some new suggestions- add more non-killing objectives and give reactants to entire squad when such objectives are completed. For example, spy fissures should grant 3 reactants to everyone for each successful vault stealth and 2 on detected vaults. Also fix the cameras in spy vaults so they do not set off the alarms when corrupted enemies spawn in. 

Edited November 8, 2023 by BansheeAndZephyrMarried

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Ideally yeah. Like personally, I would be all in for Relics getting optimised and better fine tuning. To myself, the idea, is that sincere legitimate players shouldn't encounter situations where they are punished or shortchanged for their time and effort. Whether that be because 1 player was too fast, or 1 player spread out too much, whether it be lack of enemies in a capture, or lack of reactant in a Survival etc. Whether it be because old console is host, some players like to disconnect and then you get players connecting mid mission etc etc

I also know I can be quite particular with words for some as well, but usually I am well meaning. Fix can imply somethings broken. Which in some ways it is, but also if it were that simple, it would probably be fixed by now. The issue is probably more along the lines, of how big of an issue is it "really". I don't mean that in a dismissive way either, more of a relative way. Like for a random Warframe playing individual, how often, frequent or large of an issue is this? That is also going to vary obviously, a bit from person to person, establishing a sort of range, and average and so on. Based on certain variables as well. Like, I am the type of player, if I am host, and its a Relic Capture, I wait until everyone has loaded in, and is moving around, and I don't kill enemies too hard. Its not that big of an issue for me to do that... but... I am critical of the idea, people may have to behave that way, to ensure everyone getting rewards. Ideally... I shouldn't have to do that. Yes, again, I could, and everyone could... and some of us don't mind, but a lot of people struggle with the idea, that just because some of us don't mind, and know how to maximise success, doesn't mean improvements can be made, or that criticism can't be had. Yes there are also often other issues that need to be considered too. 

Which is why... wording, and decent communication and understanding can go a long way. Expanding on that, also, is probably a factor in DE's actions or lack of. I wouldn't use my own experiences as the sole conclusive evidence one way or the other, but in that sense, not being able to open a Relic is relatively rare. Like I think once or twice out of every 30 or so attempts (amd including team mates in that as well). Again, not saying that is strong evidence of anything, especially in the sense, I am also the type of player to communicate to teams in Survival to try stay close, I mark Reactant if I can see someone in another room on 8 or 9 and know they haven't picked the one I marked. A player who will go slow and knows Fissure behaviour pretty well. Out of those rough 30, there were plenty of close calls in failing too. It would be really nice to not have to be so cautious. Also, relatively, the success to failure ratio, isn't that bad or dire, enough for DE to like, have to make immediate improvements now. Or to try to fix necessarily. So it may have to do with what sort of data they getting from your average player. I imagine if the success rate for cracking Relics is over or around 95%, its not really seen as a dire issue. Again though, if players are sincere and legitimate, I think that number should be as close to 100% but eh. 

[DstroyR_Prime]

Hm... I think, it is not core issue to be fixed, cause it is result of specific gameplay, but not bug literally. Well, in basic conditions captures with fissures usualy allow to get required reactant for all squad. So, DE just not care about guys who need only nuke all map & be first on finish without care about squadmates XD Selfish rushers must be punished somehow, also as AFK dudes. In fact, this is not issue affecting everyone & ever. My point it is not core bug to be fixed, but some risk factor for those who would to do relic-cracking by one click XD It is reasonable that DE mostly focused on fixing of true core bugs, like when everyone constantly stucking or falling through textures in one place. So, this fissures issue just not deserving to be plased in known bugs list, i guess.