All Platforms PSA: Nightwave Nora's Mix Vol. 5 Unintended Additional Weeklies and Not Earning Standing Fix

[(XBOX)Rez090]

3 hours ago, Do_High_Go said:

XBOX players, for a while now, have been given extra NW standing for some magical reason. I don't know why that is, but it is a thing. It is not that XBOX players get more acts or 'do them better" they just get extra points added for doing nothing ^^

Yeah, calling "X for doubt" on you. This is not a thing on Xbox.

[Katinka]

45 minutes ago, [DE]Sam said:

Howdy, Tenno!

We’re working on a change to make Permanent Weekly Acts recoverable! With this, the intention is that Permanent Weekly Acts won’t be lost should you not finish them during a rotation, as they will act like recoverable Acts going forward so that players aren’t excluded from any Nightwave Standing. We’ll update you on the progress of this change when we have more information.

Oooh!  I wonder if this change will also fix the issue people have reported about not being able to recover Acts that have repeated? e.g. if 'Complete 3 Captures' was skipped one week and would be recovered in a week that also had a 'Complete 3 Captures' Act then it doesn't get recovered and the player's progress through the back-log is halted.  That sounds like it could be quite a problem for 3 Acts that are repeated every week.

[S-267]

1 hour ago, [DE]Sam said:

Howdy, Tenno!

We’re working on a change to make Permanent Weekly Acts recoverable! With this, the intention is that Permanent Weekly Acts won’t be lost should you not finish them during a rotation, as they will act like recoverable Acts going forward so that players aren’t excluded from any Nightwave Standing. We’ll update you on the progress of this change when we have more information.

This doesn't change that DE apparently lied how this would work for over a month about getting an "Additional" 13,500 standing each week. Own up to the change at least and explain what happened. Because at this point its very frustrating and burning some of the community trust that has been built up by the "great period" since Reb was made CD. This week felt great and is how it was intended to work, how it was expected to work by the community. So who or what caused the change?

[Zetin2455]

1 hour ago, [DE]Sam said:

Howdy, Tenno!

We’re working on a change to make Permanent Weekly Acts recoverable! With this, the intention is that Permanent Weekly Acts won’t be lost should you not finish them during a rotation, as they will act like recoverable Acts going forward so that players aren’t excluded from any Nightwave Standing. We’ll update you on the progress of this change when we have more information.

This is an improvement. But it doesn't change the fact that you told us you would update the Nightwave in a specific manner for 2 months. Updated the Nightwave in exactly the way you said you would. Then went "Whups!!!", that's actually an error and the Nightwave is really going to be updated in this objectively worse manner. 

At what point in that 2 month timespan was this decision made and why we told after the good update was put in the game?

[IvaraStarling]

My boyfriend and I have done the same daily/weekly acts and he is ahead of me on the reward tiers. We have the same three left and he has received the 2x weapon slots sitting at 8,500/10,000. Where as I've just collected the companion glyph and sitting at 500/10,000. A bit frustrating. He is on Xbox and I'm on PC.

Edited November 30, 2023 by IvaraStarling

[Do_High_Go]

4 hours ago, (XBOX)RaeOvSunshyn said:

Really? As an Xbox player, I'd like to know where this magic is found... 'cause I've gotten none of it in any season.

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

Yeah, calling "X for doubt" on you. This is not a thing on Xbox.

 Might have not happened to you, but it is happening. Very often, including previous NW, suddenly there were people, only on Xbox, that were ahead and flexing for having Mods and skins while others waited for a week to get there on other platforms. Such thing has not happened for any other platform from what I know. Apparently some Xbox users just get free 29.5k standing sometimes from the looks of it.

I do not know how it works, who get it and who doesn't, but @(XBOX)Earth Nuggets is a prime current example of a free 29.5k standing landing in his lap out of thin air. I am not blaming anyone, just saying that it is a thing and has been discussed before.

[Do_High_Go]

2 hours ago, [DE]Sam said:

Howdy, Tenno!

We’re working on a change to make Permanent Weekly Acts recoverable! With this, the intention is that Permanent Weekly Acts won’t be lost should you not finish them during a rotation, as they will act like recoverable Acts going forward so that players aren’t excluded from any Nightwave Standing. We’ll update you on the progress of this change when we have more information.

 "Working on a change"? What happened to "return to Form"? If that was the intended form, why is it not already done? Why was everyone kept in the dark, left with very appealing (and apparently wrong) information for a month, if that was the initial intended "form"????

 Good Luck making those acts recoverable.... I know it will Fail Instantaneously!

Recovering Act is already ridiculous, with outright stupid rules like " If you have had Kill 30 Eximus this week, you cannot recover the other 2 of the same you missed"..... I get it you don't want players to do 2 of the same challenge at once, however once one is done it should be green light for another of the same. Last NW I was stuck recovering 1-2 Acts max, thanks to that system 🙃

 So No, I do not see you succeeding in making "Permanent" Acts being recoverable, they will bug out, and some people will be screwed, others wont, people will be arguing that it is not fair and yadda yadda. It will still not recover them all the time, and the best part is that it will most probably need Cert to "fix", so that is another month or two for people fighting with the buggy aftermath of a reckless last minute change. Like Come on, it even launched EXACTLY how it was promised it would be..... tctctctc

 This is a pure and shameless Bait and Switch no matter how you look at it at this point. Shame!

[(XBOX)Rez090]

42 minutes ago, Do_High_Go said:

 Might have not happened to you, but it is happening. Very often, including previous NW, suddenly there were people, only on Xbox, that were ahead and flexing for having Mods and skins while others waited for a week to get there on other platforms. Such thing has not happened for any other platform from what I know. Apparently some Xbox users just get free 29.5k standing sometimes from the looks of it.

I do not know how it works, who get it and who doesn't, but @(XBOX)Earth Nuggets is a prime current example of a free 29.5k standing landing in his lap out of thin air. I am not blaming anyone, just saying that it is a thing and has been discussed before.

Still calling doubt, unless there's evidence somewhere on the forums. I've never seen a single thread or post about this happening before.

[EmacGG]

The way its in the game now its amazing, why make it worse? You all tried to make the Nightwave better, which everyone agreed with, and for a month leading up to this there was no indication that the permanent weeklies would be replacing the others. All of a sudden, there's a switch? Why? Everyone likes the way this week is going now and everyone liked the way it was described, so why make it universally more boring?

[(NSW)warfare3376]

On 2023-11-29 at 2:01 PM, [DE]Sam said:

We’re working on a change to make Permanent Weekly Acts recoverable so incomplete Permanent Weekly Acts won’t be lost! The intention is that if you’re catching up on missed Nightwave Acts, the Permanent Weekly Acts will continue to populate your Act rotation until you’ve caught up on the Rotations you’ve missed.

If the new permanent challenges wernt already recoverable at launch then how was it that they were supposedly always have been intended to replace 3 normal weeklys rather than the promised 3 additional weekly challenges for an extra 13500 standing per week? Why are you stating the 3 extra challenges was unintended and are "fixing it" rather than stating what it clearly is which is a last minute change? This is so unlike you DE.

[Psymantiss]

The extra acts seemed pretty intended from the previous posts. Isn't this gaslighting?

[Do_High_Go]

4 hours ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

Still calling doubt, unless there's evidence somewhere on the forums. I've never seen a single thread or post about this happening before.

 Dug up this case for you. ☺️

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

23 hours ago, [DE]Sam said:

Howdy, Tenno!

We’re working on a change to make Permanent Weekly Acts recoverable! With this, the intention is that Permanent Weekly Acts won’t be lost should you not finish them during a rotation, as they will act like recoverable Acts going forward so that players aren’t excluded from any Nightwave Standing. We’ll update you on the progress of this change when we have more information.

Well better than nothing, and not worse than originally. Still, the matter of standing and FOMO were far from bring the worst things in this situation.

Doesn't change the fact that this was handled in a very dishonest way, which is quite sad. Don't lie unless you know you won't be caught. And if you can be caught, at least save face and earn some honesty points.

Let's hope this is just yet another small smudge in an otherwise bright future for Warframe. Thankfully the good still outweighs the bad, with all the good ideas of late.

Edited December 1, 2023 by (PSN)Hikuro-93

[L3512]

So what was the point of these permanent acts if they simply replace random ones?

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Personally, I don't necessarily need rapid clarification or answers, but... some further and thorough clarity and explanation would be nice. My interpretation may have been off, but originally the idea was conveyed that we would get additional Nightwave acts, as an improvement for players. These being sort of bonus, since they weren't going to be recoverable, but they were going to be the sort of tasks most players naturally complete as they play the game (killing enemies, doing missions, killing Eximus). This was also introduced as far as being an increase in overall QOL, minor changes intended to make small improvements for players overall, like Focus changes, Narmer changes etc. 

Which, would be great and quite welcome, for multiple types of Warframe players. Personally, I am the type to do even the niche ones (even grew to enjoy some of them, like Conservation this way), but having some additional would be nice, and the people that don't like mining, fishing etc would be well served. 

So its a bit strange and a bit disappointing, if these are otherwise intended to just be replacements. Even if it was  originally intended that way (the nature of miscommunications or different people at different levels having different understandings, its totally fine and just something that happens, in my view. Looking at Pablos words versus other sources etc, could have been intended as replacement originally). Just.. then its not that big of a QOL improvement for many, just swapping around some tasks. Like for some it might be an improvement but eh... 

Hopefully this can be discussed internally, a bit. Its not a deal breaker for myself personally or anything, just the idea of additional acts, actually seems pretty positive, for pretty much every sort of player I can think of. I know some people who dislike Nightwave and the idea of missing out, but with additional ways of earnings, that are more natural to most peoples play styles (as in doing missions and killing enemies), there is much less pressure on those types of players. Those players who are completionists and do all the niche tasks are rewarded with extra for doing what they usually do, and those that wait and have to rush near the end, have extra ways and opportunities to catch up, and if they did pop in for a few weeks here and there, probably have a better head start because of the additional tasks. I don't know, it felt very win win, and a really nice addition to Nightwave on the whole. 

I personally think some people are being a little tiny bit dramatic with their rhetoric, but this could of been quite nice. Thanks for the quick fix yesterday though, all the same, Nightwave rewards look great. Thank you DE Sam for the quick communication as well. 

[(PSN)RWalls91]

I don't see why they don't do it destiny style. Week 1 10 challenges, week 2 10 more challenges (that doesn't lock out week 1). That way catch up is always there, and if you're struggling with challenges on week 8, instead of being locked and rolling for 2 you can do, you could just do any of the previous.

My only guess is they don't want someone coming in not playing for 9 weeks and blitzing all of it on week 10. I suppose their current methodology is to try and keep players logging in.

Regardless, this whole thing has been handled and communicated poorly, and I can definitely foresee issues with catch up on these permanent acts.

I also think whilst these acts are good because they're easy, I also believe they reduce variation especially if replacing acts. As they were as additional acts was fine, although if DE wants players to keep logging in and not burn through nightwave too fast, then maybe the compromise instead of replacing acts would have to keep them as permanent acts that just gave less standing, such as 3000.

DE has been putting out some better decisions lately, they shouldn't ruin it now.

[Croeseus]

LOL. 

Edited December 2, 2023 by Croeseus

[sarcastyx]

21 hours ago, [DE]Sam said:

We’re working on a change to make Permanent Weekly Acts recoverable!

Thank you Sam, that addresses the main issue I (personally) had!

It still would have been nice if the new behaviour was in line with the pre-patch announced intent, but this is at least a good middle ground.

[Genitive]

I'll echo what Voltage wrote in this thread. Why talk about additional permanent challenges and then walk back at the last moment? I understand development plans change, but this is so bizarre. Because if the permanent acts replace the 3 weekly acts, why make this change at all? To make it more approachable to new players? Sure, but if the weekly acts were an addition, not a replacement, the result would still be the same. New players would just ignore those acts they can't yet complete, while everyone else would benefit from some additional standing. 

It's not like you're going to release the next nightwave sooner if players complete it a few weeks earlier. 

[(PSN)SABRETOOTH1971]

I'm trying to understand the logic behind the changes. Were they ment to benefit players, encourage them to visit the game more times a week, or just a slowing down of progress for everyone in general? Imagine coming back to catch up on several weeks of challenges to be faced with kill 500, 15 missions, 30 eximus over and over again. They are passive challenges, sure, but at least with the old system you had a variety of differing challenges to do. You could of not made any changes to the NW formula and we would of still been better off without these new changes. Very confused by this.

[SQLOwns]

lol, clearly there was a miscommunication with management or they didn't even ask for permission and someone found out about the extra 13k rep a week player's were getting so they had to rollback the whole thing.  😄

[[DE]Megan]

An update on the status of "Recoverable" Permanent Acts: 

EDIT 12/1/2023: The team is still tinkering and testing the change to make Permanent Acts "Recoverable," however, it will not be ready for the next rotation, as we're finding the change may require a Hotfix/Update. When the change does come, all previous weeks will be Recoverable and not lost to the Void, allowing you to make up the Standing while we were tinkering. We appreciate your patience while we sort through this!

[Geihlen]

Really seems like leaving it the way it was this week would be A) easier and B) in line with the messaging we were all familiar with until like earlier this week.

 

Edit: Just to put a bit more substance here, this change is really baffling to me. While the permanent acts are much easier and will be great for newer folks, it feels like it will be objectively worse (or at least grossly more tedious) for anyone trying to play catchup. 

It also just doesn't really sit right that we've known about these changes for what...a month or more? Everyone paying attention knew what we were getting but then the new Nightwave launches and we're all told, after launch no less, that what they laid out is somehow also not what was intended. THEN you couple that with the fact that the permanents were not going to be recoverable, but then they've seemingly walked that part back and I can't help but think, "what are you guys even doing?" This just feels like the most unforced error Warframe has had in a while and I can't even see the logic in these choices.

Edited December 2, 2023 by (NSW)Juraash

[Jarriaga]

At this stage I'm starting to think someone at DE unironically hates goodwill and wants the game to fail.

I know this sounds hyperbolic and that Scott called out Brozime about this mentality some years ago in an interview by highlighting it was hurtful for the devs to hear people thought the game's own devs wanted the game to fail, but what else can you think about this situation just after the Heirloom issue? 

An entire month of goodwill down the drain by deciding to walk back on the unquestionably positive 13,500 additional standing announcement...... If DE casually and conveniently start selling Nightwave standing booster packs after this I'm quitting the game for good.

There is a limit as to how much you are willing to support a company.  This would be mine.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Jarriaga

[(PSN)rexis12]

Hey I just wanna ask, why do you want to give us the players less Nightwave Standing?

Like just answer that, because the original idea was to give us extra standing.

So tell us, honestly, why you want to give us less instead?