The moving of archon shards from Chipper to some where else, feels out of character.

[alexander3449]

The moving of archon shards from Chipper to some where else, feels out of character, atleast for this "version" of DE. and it also feels like an additional push, to have all the thing players want, isolated in one place.

the reason i say this is out of character, is that this "version" of DE, has had a streak of going back to things and fixing them or brining them up to date, the incarnon genesis adapters, the Kahl QOL updates, the Hydroid rework, even now with the changes to fortuna. 

consider the already mentioned QOL changes to Kahl missions, this action of moving archon shards, the only weekly thing, from chippers shop, to somwhere else, seemingly in the most recently added hub, feels wrong. If DE doesnt add something as a replacement, then once you have 1-2 styanaxes and the archon mods, and the weapons, there won't be a reason to play Kahl missions. which just seems weird considering the recent QOL changes made to those missions. 

This, untop of the Netracells being able to drop archon shards, and Bird 3 selling the highest rank of focus lenzes, feels like all the interresting and good engame stuff, is being isolated in one place, all we need now is to have the galvenized and archon mods, aswell as incarnon evolutions being avaliable there aswell. which brings me to the isloating feeling.

as said very little of the current endgame stuff, isn't avaliable in the newest hub, this is in my mind, a problem. why does Bird 3 sell eidolon lv focus lenzes, yet the Quils/Onkko doesnt? why can the netracells drop archon shards? why can loid make every arcane, when 90-99% isn't something he would ever be intouch with? to make it clear, i dont want these things to go away, but i also want to point out how little sense it makes. it would make sense for the Quils on plains of Eidolon, to be able to sell/make Eidolon focus lenzes, yet they cant even make/sell you a basic one, while the Cavia is just here making them, with out ever having been near an eidolon. Why can netracells drop archon shards, when lore wise these are albrech's like storage lockers, (i know timetravele is an argument, but that is a weak one.) yet Chipper can only sell you one? 

In the end, my suggestion, to fix these problems, would not be to remove stuff from older areas of the game, like DE is currently saying they will do, but add to them and polis them instead, that is what they are doing with fortuna, why not other places, instead of removing the one insentive players have. 

so, suggestion. keep the shard at chipper and ad the new reward one aswell, give chipper the power to sell all the base 3 shards, but resrict purchase to one pr. week. thus if players want more shards, they will still have to go to the other sources. keep the focus lense at Bird 3, but add them + all the other tiers, to Onkko/the Quils as they are the ones with most direct knowlegde of the Tenno only second to Ordis and the Lotus.

Give the Kahl missions some love, as of now there is like what? 3 diffrent ones, 4 maybe 5? so add more missions, you can do take the current ones as a starting point, and the expande them in a diffrent dirrection. remove the "Khal go fast" sub-mission as it clashes with nearly every other sub-mission, keep the current changes with weapons found around the map and the loot and enemy radar. 

 

this is at least my thoughts, what are yours?  

[Waeleto]

This is a great change, i HATE kahl mission, doing them every week for the shard feels like a chore and unlike other warframe weeklies this one isn't fun it's A W F U L

Thank you to whoever decided to remove the shard from these terrible missions

[Voltage]

The very premise of Break Narmer missions are why few like to play Kahl. There is no QoL that would get people interested without gutting the entire mode, which is what moving the rewards does effectively. I do not mind this change, as someone who's been farming them since they released. I can certainly agree with you regarding "stuffing" the newest area with most items people are playing for at later stages of the game, but I don't think it's that big of a deal. There are still several other areas a player needs to participate in. Zariman, Duviri, The Circuit, Steel Path Honors, Arbitrations, Eidolon Hunts, etc.

Edited February 24 by Voltage

[sunderthefirmament]

52 minutes ago, alexander3449 said:

Give the Kahl missions some love, as of now there is like what? 3 diffrent ones, 4 maybe 5? so add more missions, you can do take the current ones as a starting point, and the expande them in a diffrent dirrection. remove the "Khal go fast" sub-mission as it clashes with nearly every other sub-mission, keep the current changes with weapons found around the map and the loot and enemy radar. 

Over all, you're not wrong.  But the fact that you don't know how many Kahl missions there even are suggests that you haven't engaged with this content enough to truly despise it.  There are three.  There is absolutely zero meaningful variation in them.  The voicelines are the same.  The environmental puzzles are the same.  The only thing that changes are random loot/egg hunt objectives, the occasional weapon, and a few of the objectives pulling from a very small pool of "find this," "break that," or "do this quickly."  It's tedious.  It's odious.  And I have never been happier to hear that something is being removed from a reward pool/NPC store.

 

Even if DE doubled, tripled, or quadrupled the amount of missions available, the game mode would still be hateful.  It entirely ignores our arsenal and years of progression.  This is a cardinal sin in a long-running live service game.  There's no point in DE padding this isolated game mode out further when they already have the means to assuage excessive repetition right there, in our arsenals. 

 

Why waste developer resources building a game within a game that loses out on the built in advertising inherent in multiplayer game modes featuring our arsenals?  Every time a MR34 player blitzes through a low level fissure with lower rank players or carries them on an archon hunt, these newer players are exposed to the massive range of power (and likely paid cosmetics) available, and may wish to engage with the game further to reach that level.

[(PSN)manicmartz61]

Blame the khal mission on the ' khal mission when' crowd in chat during dev streams. Same with the ' ghoul saw when' crowd. Expectation vs realiy.

[sunderthefirmament]

10 minutes ago, (PSN)manicmartz61 said:

Blame the khal mission on the ' khal mission when' crowd in chat during dev streams. Same with the ' ghoul saw when' crowd. Expectation vs realiy.

Agreed.  Khal functioned best as a one-off change of pace in a quest that most players will likely only experience once.  He never should have been attached to a weekly grind with no end point.

[Graavarg]

Yup.

Khal was a hero. Then he was franchised and turned into drudge content. Sad ending.

Edited March 7 by Graavarg

[ReddyDisco]

I liked the kahl mission for the first few weeks, then they became tiresome, dull and ultimately a chore. i haven't been bothering with them for last few months, removing the shards from chipper store is a welcome change and long overdue.

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

Maybe it's because I'm not fully awake yet, but I fail to see how this change was bad.

If the missions no longer grants the shard, why keep the one shard at that location?

[Jorak_Falconstar]

5 hours ago, alexander3449 said:

If DE doesnt add something as a replacement

This seems like a good spot to put in Narmer Isoplast as a purchasable item.

sure only one or two things use it but it would be more fitting thematically and provide an alternate source other than the god awful bounties in which its only a chance to get it. 

[Xzorn]

From a story perspective it's bad since it removes Narmer as a looming threat in the game.

Now only Archons have mention of this at all so in a way they might as well delete it. Maybe that's the intent.

If they intend to do anything with it. It would be ideal to have more things to remind the player. Not less. I don't care how they do it.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

6 hours ago, (PSN)manicmartz61 said:

Blame the khal mission on the ' khal mission when' crowd in chat during dev streams. Same with the ' ghoul saw when' crowd. Expectation vs realiy.

same energy as "Dagath should have an exalted Kaithe". sometimes people come up with ideas they think are cool, but put zero thought into how they can be applied, IF they can be applied..

I don't mind the change; Chipper isn't what you'd call a beloved NPC, 90% of people just know him as "the guy you keep reviving in Archon Defense Missions", Kahl misison are disliked by most and this also means if your Netracells don't give you any shards, you can buy one while in the Sanctum.

2 hours ago, Xzorn said:

From a story perspective it's bad since it removes Narmer as a looming threat in the game.

ppfft when was this?

Narmer literally just showed up out of nowhere, were given the system on a silver platter, and then folded in like 5 mins after the Tenno showed up. a regular a$$ dude, the drifter (prior to getting powers) killed 2 out of 3 archons -the strongest dudes narmer had -  by himself with nothing but a bow and a pistol. like an hour later Ballas was dead and the entire system was liberated, Kahl's missions and Narmer bounties are basically just mopping up the last of the mess: they have never been a threat, not even once; mostly because of how badly the quest got chopped up narratively. 

it's a shame, because they had potential, but the story for New War got butchered so badly we basically have to act like they were a big thing when they weren't. 

 

[RyllusPurple]

Hopefully they add Gorvakk and Avex to chippers shop to compensate?

[DrivaMain]

I am a bit neutral on this change because some of the items (e.g. Archon Mods) still have decent platinum resale value. So, there are still some motivations to do those Kahl Missions even after the archon shard removal.

[_Anise_]

its understandable ? at this point people are fed up of the Khal mission? how many times can you run this exact mission with the exact same loadout not even been able to choose something simple like weapons and for the exact same reward? I did this mode to get the main rewards and have been ignoring it ever since.

its better to have this be a place you go that you do once to get stynax and move on? I mean its not exactly fortuna or something

[NaoQalli]

I do hope they still add an evergreen optional reward though. Some Kuva, Riven, Endo (maybe?), or hell maybe rotating Potatoes & 3x Forma. Maybe even Narmer Isoplasts? There's no reason to leave an optional game mode to rot.

Edited February 25 by NaoQalli

[Aerikx]

On 2024-02-24 at 11:40 AM, (PSN)manicmartz61 said:

Blame the khal mission on the ' khal mission when' crowd in chat during dev streams. Same with the ' ghoul saw when' crowd. Expectation vs realiy.

I have a distinct problem with this...

Which is that DE kind of did the features out of spite. 

DE never wanted to make the Ghoul Saw playable. But the pressure was too much so they made it ABSOLUTELY SUCK. 

It's petty, trite, and immature. Shame on them for that.

The same goes for Kahl. 

They made the Kahl missions cause he was a favorite portion of The New War. But then they only made 3 missions for him. 

A brand new way to play and experience the Warframe universe and they only give 3 missions?

Even those who like Kahl said that would get old extremely fast. Hell, the 3 mission format is why I HATED Warframe Year 1. 

3 of the exact same mission is unsatisfactory. Period.

Somehow, DE took "The Rule of 3" and S#&$ the bed, the Rule of 3 applies to quests/actions, not game mode. 

Kahl should have had 9 or 12 missions that rotate, have procedural generated maps (like core Warframe) and been more action focused like the core game. 

Hell, they should have also given him intrinsics (Drifter Style). Make him feel like a real character/frame in that way. 

Add in a "Enraged/Super Mode" mechanic where he calls in the Player's Warframe for backup, allowing the Player to take control of a Warframe and raise hell for a little bit. 

Boom, you got a cool side-mode. 

Duviri for example, was a side-character done right. As there was enough variety in content to make Duviri feel fresh for a significant long time. 

Kahl content got old after 3 months. Same dialogue, same boss, same gameplay, same missions. I feel like Kahl was a product of the old petty DE team. 

That said...

For the OP...

I agree. Removing the shard feels weird as Kahl is (lore wise) continuing the fight against the lingering forces of Narmer. 

Chipper for example; Helps The Tenno locate Archons. So why the hell he won't sell shards anymore is beyond stupid. 

The shard should stay on Chipper to be honest. As Kahl content was a nice "Baby's First Archon Shard" bridge into significantly (by Warframe standards) harder content. 

Note: Archon Hunts are an extreme step up from Sorties. So for those who haven't touched Arbitrations and Steel Path (and many players do not) Archon Hunts are a 'Wrath Imbued Fist of The Divine' to the perfect center of the face. 

I said this in an earlier thread, but if the shard must go then gear to help players prepare/power up for harder content should be there:

A Weekly store that sells:

1 Fully Built Adapter (Cycles between Melee, Weapon, Exilus)

1 Fully Built Arcane Adapters (Cycles between Primary, Secondary) 

1 or 2 Forma Blueprint (Cycles between Umbra, Aura, Regular) 

Keeps Kahl optional but relevant as those who are further in the game already have an abundance of those items.

[spider_enigma]

On 2024-02-24 at 12:20 PM, sunderthefirmament said:

Over all, you're not wrong.  But the fact that you don't know how many Kahl missions there even are suggests that you haven't engaged with this content enough to truly despise it.  There are three.  There is absolutely zero meaningful variation in them.  The voicelines are the same.  The environmental puzzles are the same.  The only thing that changes are random loot/egg hunt objectives, the occasional weapon, and a few of the objectives pulling from a very small pool of "find this," "break that," or "do this quickly."  It's tedious.  It's odious.  And I have never been happier to hear that something is being removed from a reward pool/NPC store.

 

Even if DE doubled, tripled, or quadrupled the amount of missions available, the game mode would still be hateful.  It entirely ignores our arsenal and years of progression.  This is a cardinal sin in a long-running live service game.  There's no point in DE padding this isolated game mode out further when they already have the means to assuage excessive repetition right there, in our arsenals. 

 

Why waste developer resources building a game within a game that loses out on the built in advertising inherent in multiplayer game modes featuring our arsenals?  Every time a MR34 player blitzes through a low level fissure with lower rank players or carries them on an archon hunt, these newer players are exposed to the massive range of power (and likely paid cosmetics) available, and may wish to engage with the game further to reach that level.

if khal was treated as a frame and u could use mods and give him any of the kuva guns as a deploy option, giving you a reason to get them, would be a start

if the missions were randomly generated and didnt have the find the tags exct it would be fine

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

They were a fun novelty at first, but they're just boring and repetitive now. It's literally the exact same three maps and objectives with very little variety to them. I only continue to run them each week for the Archon Shards and maybe the occasional Archon Mod to sell for platinum.

Some people would argue that certain Warframe missions are repetitive as well. But at least we have a huge ever expanding arsenal at our disposal to keep things fresh. With Kahl, it was just the same old slow Grineer guy with a Slaytra and a Grakata with a chance to find a random weapon laying on the ground. 

I've been running them every week since the Veilbreaker update and have had my fill. It's time to move on.

[KiteForest_2035]

The reputation of this faction is gaining too slowly, to the point where I can't imagine how much extra time I'll have to spend if Archon Shards appear in the Bird Store. Originally, I only needed to play Khal once a week, spending just over ten minutes to obtain one.

[Xzorn]

18 minutes ago, KiteForest_2035 said:

The reputation of this faction is gaining too slowly, to the point where I can't imagine how much extra time I'll have to spend if Archon Shards appear in the Bird Store. Originally, I only needed to play Khal once a week, spending just over ten minutes to obtain one.

 

I have the same concern. I think this is just a flashy way to prolong rep grinding since most finished it in a few weeks with nothing left to do.

When it comes down to it. This is a farming game and when I enjoy neither much I'll take to 10min mission over 40min of rep grinding.

[Aruquae]

One step closer to forgetting Chipper exists, and after doing Archon defense for so long… I’m all in for it.

[SneakyErvin]

On 2024-02-24 at 5:20 PM, alexander3449 said:

this is at least my thoughts, what are yours?  

Chipper is no more thematic to have shards than Bird 3 or whomever is going to have them. First of we dont know where archon shards actually come from to begin with. We just know they are sources to empower synthetic organisms like archons and warframes. So it is very possible this is old Orokin tech and more probable to be found in entrati vaults than at a random place Chipper scavenged.

As with arcanes. What makes it less thematic that Loid carries them than them dropping from Eidolons for instance? Some of them are likely spread all over, which is why they were earlier tied to trials, then moved to eidolons, then part of SS and then ended up in Orphix and now at Loid. I mean, a long ass time has passed since the Orokin Empire, so things being found in several places and then hoarded by individuals isnt really strange. Just look all the remnants that are burried in our own world, items from civilizations dating thousands of years back, just as we still discover more recent remnants, like undetonated bombs and mines from WW1 and 2 etc. The only difference really is that what we find here in our own world is mundane tech which has degraded due to the passing of time. In WF we find very old super high tech items that arent worn down by time.

edit: The most appropriate place for the OG arcanes have likely been trials, the one with Grineer, since we know most of what they use is old scavenged Orokin tech left after the war. Which has then been reverse engeineerd so they can mass produce it to Grineer standards.

Edited February 26 by SneakyErvin

[Aerikx]

3 hours ago, Aruquae said:

One step closer to forgetting Chipper exists, and after doing Archon defense for so long… I’m all in for it.

Archon Defense isn't going anywhere. Archon Hunts are staying as the main way to get a guaranteed shard. 

Just now, Chipper won't sell a normal shard. 

So now Chipper is knee deep in Archon Hunts but apparently has nothing Archon to show for it beyond the extremely niche (mostly unusable) Archon Mods.

[Aruquae]

30 minutes ago, Aerikx said:

So now Chipper is knee deep in Archon Hunts but apparently has nothing Archon to show for it beyond the extremely niche (mostly unusable) Archon Mods.

Tbf it made no sense for him to have them anyways.

IN FACT, I’d rather them have just added shards to the vendor without taking it away from Chipper. More normal shards couldn’t hurt. 

31 minutes ago, Aerikx said:

Archon Defense isn't going anywhere

Let me take my high dose of copium por favor