Why are Supporter Pack skins being resold for Platinum?

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Subjectively, personally, as someone who has also spent money on some of those packs, I like this development. So much so I would be more inclined to spend actual money on Supporter packs in the future, if I knew this would be the case. I just want cool stuff, I don't want cool exclusive stuff not be available to other people, because they can't afford it, or weren't around at the time. 

I have sympathies for people who may feel differently, and again, just my subjective personal perspective, but yeah. 

Either way, there are certain terms that should be treated with suspicion as a consumer generally speaking. Like depending on which country or organisation and laws you are dealing with, addressing how accountable or liable certain organisations, or businesses are... People literally make careers out of learning how to navigate around such ideas. For myself personally, its one small frustration I encounter around the forums/Reddit. People conflate opinions, even decently reasoned opinions, with actual expertise and knowledge on certain topics in certain fields. Some people exaggerate what they think they know, some people undermine. I personally actually downplay and undermine how much I know, for reasons. Either way though you will often see people make claims involving legalities, and you can ask them for harder evidence, proof, or explanations, to give their claims more credibility or weight... and rarely can they actually do that. Its why I personally prefer downplaying what I know... because I am really incredibly lazy. I could source examples, cite references, and provide decent context and framing to try and give weight to viewpoints but since I am lazy, and I know some people legitimately do know much better, understand better, the relevant subjects... 

To be super clear and direct... I am not saying or implying that OP or anyone in this thread is necessarily doing that, but thats where threads like this often end up. This is where implications, sincerity, disingenuity, can get muddy. A lot of the power isn't with the consumers. You get questions like "How can we market this in a way, which will encourage and motivate people to buy? Especially people who might be undecided? Well, in our industry and experience, we generally know, that such people will often start leaning towards purchasing more, if they think its limited time deal". "Well, does that mean, if later its profitable to sell the item, we can't?", "Well, depends on some specific terminology and potentially fine print, legalese, and structuring, like around bundles. Also, our intent. Which is kind of flimsy. Since right now? We determine its not profitable to have this pack up permanently, so our intent is that it is actually limited to right now. That being said, who knows the future. In three years time, data may show its profitable to rerelease or specifically repackage certain items, and sell them a different way. With new data and information. If that happens, and stuff changes. Is that duplicitous? Well... is it duplicitous to be business minded? To prioritise profit? What if this is what the people want? More importantly our lawyers gave us the all clear, because these reasons, that no one would really challenge us over. So..."

Obviously its more complicated than that too, but as a consumer that views FOMO style tactics, limited timed exclusive items as anti-consumer, are such actions shady and a bit deceptive/disingenuous? A little, legal? I don't have enough expertise to say, but to myself outside of that, such tactics are actually more consumer friendly than the alternative. The better solution would be, just avoiding such framing and limited time, exclusive, deals in the first place, but hey. I also imagine its something DE would be reactive over. As a business you know, they'll course correct where necessarily, and they have more internal data than us general fans, to weigh in with their various decisions, present and future. 

[schilds]

 I think we want to compare this earlier text (from https://www.warframe.com/news/the-new-war-supporter-packs)

Quote

Please note: The New War Supporter Packs will contain four time-limited exclusives: Ravurex Gunblade Skin, Narmer Color Palette, Archon Nira Glyph and Archon Nira Sigil. All other items and Customizations will be available for purchase with Platinum on December 15 in the in-game Market.

with this later text (from https://www.warframe.com/news/last-call-for-the-new-war-supporter-packs)

Quote

One per account. Items marked with * will be exclusive to this pack for a limited time.

The second says the *exclusivity* is time-limited, That is they will stop being exclusive at some point.

I'm not sure the first says that? The expression "time-limited exclusives" by itself is ambiguous, but the next sentence which states that the *other* items will be available from the market after some point implies that the *marked* items won't.

That said, it seems to me DE noticed the first was a mis-communication and cleared it up with the second?

[PR1D3]

Oh S#&$ for reals??!! I can now get the Deimos stuff now!!?! Oh man, the weapons are in a separate pack too! That's perfect for me! Crap, work needs to end soon so i can go buy them XD. I for one welcome them finally coming back. Hell, the Zariman pack has been up for more than a year now, and never went away. I was always miffed that the Deimos stuff was MIA for as long as they were.

[(XBOX)Big Roy 324]

5 minutes ago, PR1D3 said:

Oh S#&$ for reals??!! I can now get the Deimos stuff now!!?! Oh man, the weapons are in a separate pack too! That's perfect for me! Crap, work needs to end soon so i can go buy them XD. I for one welcome them finally coming back. Hell, the Zariman pack has been up for more than a year now, and never went away. I was always miffed that the Deimos stuff was MIA for as long as they were.

 

This is what I am saying.

If I can get that deimos pistol skin I'll be happy. 

[-Krism-]

1 hour ago, Voltage said:

Again, it's disingenuous.

Dude, just be happy it's back & that new players can enjoy those skins now

Would it kill you to show a single shred of positivity?

[Kaiga]

1 hour ago, Letter13 said:

Also here we see the duality of the forums. On one hand, the camp that complain about things only offered for real money and not platinum (read: heirloom collection) and the other camp who complain when things initially thought to be obtainable only for real money are then made available for platinum.

While it is nice that more people have access to stuff for platinum, you need to do some some pretty big mental gymnastics to go this route, because you're basically implying that the words "time limited" and "exclusive" and "gone" do not actually mean what they are directly being used to imply here (read: exclusivity like many other things in the game, like operations and their rewards which use the same language and yes, are gone for good)

The only place in any of the advertising for any of these packs that can be interpreted like this, is the zariman supporter bundle, which says:



That the * items will be exclusive to the pack for a limited time, which implies they have the ability to not be later on.

Everything else though is just FOMO marketing language, why would anyone be surprised when people purchased the items thinking they'd be gone, when the thing literally says "get them before they're gone".

 

Edited March 1 by Kaiga

[_Eclips3_]

On 2024-03-01 at 5:20 PM, Voltage said:

Deimos, Zariman, and New War Supporter Pack skins are being resold for Platinum in "Tribute" Packs. These items were originally marketed as exclusive to those Supporter Packs. I bought these for a considerable total sum of money and this feels rather insulting if I'm being genuinely honest.

I love how with their heirloom pack, they couldn't change the bundle or sell them separately because "people already bought it and it wouldn't be fair and there would be lawsuits and riots", but they're perfectly happy to do what they should have done with the heirloom bundles here.

On 2024-03-01 at 5:30 PM, Voltage said:

https://www.warframe.com/news/last-call-for-the-new-war-supporter-packs

"Last Call"

"Soon to disappear"

"While you still can"

"These won’t last much longer, Tenno! Collect these discounted exclusive items and Customizations now."

"Items marked with * will be exclusive to this pack for a limited time."

These are not terms or phrases you use when you're going to resell something again later. It's disingenuous marketing, and has implications of a promise to exclusivity given the Founders and Heirloom situations. 

This can be read in more than one way. Again, it's disingenuous.

Yep, until it comes to big, expensive bundles like the heirloom pack.

Edited March 2 by _Eclips3_

[ECCHOSIERRA]

1 hour ago, Voltage said:

https://www.warframe.com/news/last-call-for-the-new-war-supporter-packs

"Last Call"

"Soon to disappear"

"While you still can"

"These won’t last much longer, Tenno! Collect these discounted exclusive items and Customizations now."

"Items marked with * will be exclusive to this pack for a limited time."

These are not terms or phrases you use when you're going to resell something again later. It's disingenuous marketing, and has implications of a promise to exclusivity given the Founders and Heirloom situations. 

This can be read in more than one way. Again, it's disingenuous.

Yeah, I see why you feel that way.

[Famecans]

Why can't they be sold for platinum if all the platinum on the market was purchased with real money?!?!?!?

Hi, I am most hated questioner guy in this thread. 😈

Edited March 1 by Famecans

[Binket_]

I was just talking to some folks in a Discord and we all unanimously agreed:
"There's nothing special about paid content. It's not like a badge of honor because you played the game at the peak performance.
You paid your way to the top with funds that very few can track besides maybe the IRS-- it's not a measure of you as a person, it's not proving anything.
It's about as 'Exclusive' as it is pretentious."

Paraphrased between a bunch of people, but all the same idea.

 

We've all heard of MMOs in the past where some lone guild managed to beat some """impossible boss""" through sheer dedication and effort.
Literally taking shifts of weeks on end where people trained rigorously just to take a crack at beating the actual impossible.
Combining their forces together in a way that can only be described as "beautiful", they fell TITANS of the impossibility in stuff that J.R. Tolkien could match.
They took the odds, cracked them in half and downed the shards in a broken metal cup. Cup included.
These people are not "sweats", "tryhards" or anything of the sort. They are the kinda people to BE the heroes of the story, even if they didn't intend to.

... and yet they're considered less important than someone with a fistful of dollars, who pulled the cash shop and pressed some random buttons for like... 15 minutes of gameplay.

Does that not seem a bit... backwards? Corporate? Cold-hearted?
The love and passion that went into gambits like this. Things that are an actual turning point.
Masters of their own gameplay to a degree that even the developers- who act as the overseers- can only sit back and say "Wow, that's... impressive!"
Is nothing compared to cold-hard cash. Unfeeling, unflinching. Draconian laws for the draconian treasure pile.

 

I say this because lately we've been seeing less and less of these kinds of players over time.
They still exist- without a doubt- but they're often mocked for daring to think in a more happy, unrestricted mindset.
One could say they're being actively told "no" in favor of more cash-prone players.
What once was a delightful hobby is now a marketing medium.
... and last I checked? I signed up to play a game, not subscribe to a buyer's magazine.

But I don't get the say when it comes now to money, now do I?
Money corrupts and it shows...

[BowserNC]

How are the Zariman packs still up after all this time yet others are gone a few months after they get launched? (New War pack that's gone yet Zariman pack is still here...)

I, too, would like to have the limited items brought back again, they would still break the "FOMO" part i know. Yet they still re-added the skins as individual items.

Edited March 1 by BowserNC

[Binket_]

6 minutes ago, BowserNC said:

I, too, would like to have the limited items brought back again, they would still break the "FOMO" part i know. Yet they still re-added the skins as individual items.

On the topic of recent "FOMO" pack, did you know once upon a time that Deluxe Skins used to FOMO and Time-Gated in a similar manner as well?

Things like Excalibur Proto would've been lost forever if you just... didn't buy it some many years ago.
"Weren't around for it? Tough luck, better invent time travel dummy!" sounds incredibly pretentious... because it is.
Yet, that's what they WOULD have asked had someone on their team not step in and put a stop to that.
If this kept up however, popular skins like both of Titania's skins would've been impossible for many, many, MANY players.

... but lemme ask people-- who is really complaining with that choice of years ago?
Nobody? Clearly there was someone complaining. People don't change over time, merely the subjects and topics.

Let me ask you a better question: Why do they matter?
Seriously, they're gone. Probably for a long time and don't plan on returning. Stubborn in their petty grudges that their money betrayed them.
Yet by making these skins available 24/7 for the longest time, it's most likely not only attracted more players-- but has made DE better profit from it over time.

If you don't take into account these sort of things, you get situations like the Heirloom Pack.
Greedy, hollow and fraudulent. Enticing those who are easily tempted by the corrupting force that is a money's tricks.
I know it's coming back, that's not up for debate-- history backs me up here TWICE now at least.
... it'll be super funny to say "I told you so!" since I've gotten two slaps on the hand over that.
^{People who want others to suffer are often those with power. Those in power often hate people who are right. People who speak up to make a difference often want people to be happy. See the pattern?}

 

I'm not saying DE is making a bad move here by making them purchasable again. That is a GOOD thing.
... but I'm not gonna praise them for finally fixing an obviously predatory practice. That's just having a decent sense of morality.
I WILL however say that if they continue doing a good job, I'll shift my expectations of them more in their favor.
But I don't see that happening any time soon, given their antics.

[FartBoySlime]

Well, i guess the future new supporter pack sales, if there is still any, will go downhill starting from now, eh? Cuz most of us know now, that it will all be available in platinum in the future.

 

So, if DE read this, when will old events rewards, where only a few still remember and care, make its come back too? I'm okay if it's in market for platinum if reactivating old events are bothersome.

 

I won't ask the heirloom and the "taboo", they will be available in game for 1 platinum if DE wants it regardless on how they promoted it, without any real repercussion, pfft...those who didn't buy will justify it and those who bought will get cuss for voicing their disappointment, till ones situation get switched and DE will just be eating popcorn anyway lol

[(XBOX)LadyWinterstorm]

I won't be buying anymore supporter packs if they are just going to release them for platinum later....

The Deimos Neophyte pack didn't even include any platinum 

Edited March 1 by (XBOX)LadyWinterstorm

[Hexerin]

46 minutes ago, (XBOX)LadyWinterstorm said:

I won't be buying anymore supporter packs if they are just going to release them for platinum later....

The Deimos Neophyte pack didn't even include any platinum 

"If those filthy free to play peasants can get my toys, I won't play with those toys anymore."

What a toxic take, my guy.

[pwnSacrifice]

I don't get the hate here. I bought most of these packs, and I'm glad I did. I'm also happy to see them return as there's some cool stuff in them. It's not like them re-releasing the packs is taking anything from those who bought them.

I was going to post a thread about the infested drone, but this happened so no need.

Seriously, How is this even a problem for anyone? Most of these were pretty popular so it's not like its all that exclusive to begin with.

I swear, people will complain about even the most positive things.

[Marvelous_A]

8 hours ago, Letter13 said:

Also here we see the duality of the forums. On one hand, the camp that complain about things only offered for real money and not platinum (read: heirloom collection) and the other camp who complain when things initially thought to be obtainable only for real money are then made available for platinum.

Oh I know right as if the exclusive real money marketing works around exploiting this mentality. P2P and F2P segregation. Absolutely unheard of. Who would've thought of that?

 

Anyway, I don't see a problem of [DE]ncent doing that. If players get mad when other players get to pay for things they've already owned, that's their problem. And God forbids EULA to exist because I guess some ignorant players will surely lose their s*** if they learn what [DE]ncent or any game developer can do with their game with absolutely no consequence.

At the end of the day, the only duality I'm seeing here is FOMO marketing being alright for some players until they fall into the very same trap themselves.

Edited March 2 by Marvelous_A

[DrivaMain]

I always hold this principle :

"Anything that is not the Founder's Pack will always return at a later date".

Holding this makes me able to steer the marketing bullcrap DE throws at me; preventing me from getting screwed over because this is the only pack DE explicitly states that it will never return. 

To those losing their minds, you pay the "early adopters" price. At least be happy that you can get earlier than those you called "f2p peasants".

Edited March 2 by DrivaMain

[(XBOX)LadyWinterstorm]

3 hours ago, Hexerin said:

What a toxic take

It's not about other people being able to get them for "free" it's about the bundles not being worth the real money asking price

[Berzerkules]

So when can I buy Excal prime pack in market?

[Skoomaseller]

11 hours ago, Voltage said:

Deimos, Zariman, and New War Supporter Pack skins are being resold for Platinum in "Tribute" Packs. These items were originally marketed as exclusive to those Supporter Packs. I bought these for a considerable total sum of money and this feels rather insulting if I'm being genuinely honest.

Yeah was surprised seeing them in the store again... 

But I don't mind as long as going forward they make it as clear cut as possible, and not use phrasing that could be interpreted in more than 1 way. Agree with you there. 

God I need the Waverider support pack so bad. 

[Hexerin]

12 minutes ago, Skoomaseller said:

God I need the Waverider support pack so bad. 

Same. I need the drone to continue my Domestik Drone collection, and I want that poster... Also, if I ever get the blueprint for the Ambassador (seriously, it refuses to drop...) I will probably want that Tenet skin. Even though it will eternally remind me that we'll never get a Tenet Ambassador for real.

[Skoomaseller]

22 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Even though it will eternally remind me that we'll never get a Tenet Ambassador for real.

it's honestly one of the better looking guns design-wise, but DE has been quite cruel to the Ambassador:

- first, they make it a crit-status hybrid weapon with mediocre base crit (can be worked around, and crit damage of 2.8x is excellent, but come on).

- second, they make it innate electricity AND ONLY electricity,

- third, the altfire eats 50% of the magazine per shot

- fourth, the primary fire makes it an ordinary assault rifle (nothing bad there), but then also don't give it any innate punch through,

- fifth, they make the farm for it painful, and so not a lot of people will bother going through that farm for an otherwise mediocre weapon, 

- last, they make a Tenet variant! but it's not actually a Tenet gun, it's a skin, time-limited at that, and so far hasn't been reintroduced. 

JUSTICE FOR AMBASSADOR 

[Hexerin]

6 minutes ago, Skoomaseller said:

it's honestly one of the better looking guns design-wise, but DE has been quite cruel to the Ambassador:

- first, they make it a crit-status hybrid weapon with mediocre base crit (can be worked around, and crit damage of 2.8x is excellent, but come on).

- second, they make it innate electricity AND ONLY electricity,

- third, the altfire eats 50% of the magazine per shot

- fourth, the primary fire makes it an ordinary assault rifle (nothing bad there), but then also don't give it any innate punch through,

- fifth, they make the farm for it painful, and so not a lot of people will bother going through that farm for an otherwise mediocre weapon, 

- last, they make a Tenet variant! but it's not actually a Tenet gun, it's a skin, time-limited at that, and so far hasn't been reintroduced. 

JUSTICE FOR AMBASSADOR 

To be fair, the magazine cost is worth it. It deals 800 damage in a 6 meter radius with only 50% falloff. If you hit something directly, it deals another 600 damage directly, for a total of 1,400 to the directly hit target. But yea, Tenet Ambassador could've been amazing. Boost its crit chance to 20%, increase the base damage a little... Man, just think...

[PublikDomain]

Better question, why haven't they always been? FOMO is inherently predatory and the less of it the better. Supporter packs made permanently available for plat with discounts for paying in cash are the right way to go.