The Stalker is Teshin and here's why - A theory with many a possible spoiler. Read at your own risk.

[arch111]

Nice theorycrafting there! 

I must object to this because of a few things. 

1. The stalker who hunted Tenno before was (confused and must be stopped:Lotus) killing us for our crimes,  acting like a Police and a Judge. That fits the role Guardian well.

But Shadow did not know about the Operators - Hunhow told him they had to find the source of their powers. 

If Teshin is Stalker, he knew about Transferrence.  That makes the deal with Hubhow very strange.

2. Acolytes say he is undreaming and free. But all Tenno use Transferrence to use a warframe. So if Stalker is free, should he really have an Operator at all?

[Compassion]

Nice theory but I'm still not convinced, we'll see in The War Within

[LOTSL]

3 hours ago, (PS4)ATreidezz said:

What if teshin is not stalker? What if john prodman is actually the Lotus & Darvo was actually a shrink?

Darvo being a shrink and we are all crazy has got to be the best twist this game could ever have.

I

LOVE

IT!

[VisionAndVoice]

We're all crazy and it's all in Clem's head anyway, who is the only one real.

[(PSN)IroncladBomber]

If Teshin is the Stalker, then if we Fight him in War Within, It is going to be very underwhelming. Since he couldn't beat us when he was by himself, he couldn't beat us when he has the weapons and powers of a Sentient. Then I don't think he little Nikanas will do much either.

[Helch0rn]

8 hours ago, ObviousLee said:

Now, we look to the newest trailer for The War Within. In it, we see a Nyx approaching a chamber that has the following, exceptionally important details.

1: It's Orokin tech. If you pause it and look carefully, the texture and design of that room, is identical to both your Liset/Orbiter, and any Clan Dojo. 

2: Glowing crimson sigils on the back wall. These sigils are the same color the Stalker has on his WarFrame armor.

3. The entire room is bathed in crimson and hues of black and grey, colors of the Stalker.

In the first Trailer (the one with the Twin Queens talking) we see a room the same colours.

I think Teshin is not the Stalker because of 4 reasons:

1: The revelation of Teshin being the Stalker would mean DE has to introduce another Character to take over the conclave.

2: The Devs said TWW is about the Twin Queens, and I don't think Stalker would avenge killed Corpus if we would work for the Queens.

3: Stalker had his appearance in the Second Dream Quest. I don't believe they would add another Stalker driven Quest that soon, without fleshing out the other factions first

4: If Teshin was the Stalker, then why didn't he put on the Stalker suit? It would prevent him from being exposed in case he lost the battle, which would allow him to get more information on our weaknesses

 

Here is my horrible theory (including horrible tropes):

- We go to get a McGuffin device to foil the next big plan of the Queens to take over the System

- At the location of the McGuffin we discover the strange room from the teaser

- Teshin appears and reveals he is actually a sleeper agent sent out by the Queens to destroy us from the inside

- We proceed to stab him in his stupid face, but because DE does not want to introduce a new character to take teshins place in the conclave he manages to disable our transference and get away heavily injured.

- we leave our comfy chair, get to some moutain top, wade through the snow (shown in the trailer) and get another McGuffin to fix transference

- Back in control of our frames we proceed to foil the Grineer plan

- once we return to our Liset teshin gives us a call and explains his treason with being brainwashed by the Grineer Queens, but his injury lifted the brainwashing and now he is back on our side to train us in the conclave again

 

But that is just my theory

 

meanwhile:

Stalker sits in his Scimitar, being your everyday, Tenno hating Edgelord

 

Edited July 30, 2016 by Helch0rn

[Zephyr]

Processing... Processing..  

... ... ... 

Warning: brain has crashed. Please reboot 

[ravend]

I feel that you pulled a Velma here and the stalker is in ropes as you are explaining.

[RainbowCandyCat]

o SHEEEt

[ObviousLee]

53 minutes ago, Helch0rn said:

*snip*

 

I updated the OP with more info and fleshed out some things. I feel it may answer some of your statements.

 

*UPDATED INFORMATION IS IN THE EDIT AT THE BOTTOM OF THE OP.*

[Valiant]

Interesting points. He could always be a protector of the stalker opposed to the stalker himself. 

Either way just have to see. Think it'd be more interesting if he wasn't the stalker and there was something much much more behind it all. 

Plus I doubt we'll lose him as an ally anyways as then they'd have to introduce a new conclave dude and whatnot. 

Edited July 30, 2016 by Naith

[Mak_Gohae]

8 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

B) The whole crew was devoured/destroyed by the Void, but some enegy materialized in a shape similar to that of the anihilated crew. So the Tenno are actually physical manifestation of Void energy in the guise of humans, that would explain why they don't age.

We are void energy beings like current vor?

But when the kids woke up they remember stuff before the trip. Did the energy even take the memories?

[BornWithTeeth]

8 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Well, I kick Stalker's arse on a regular basis even with weak equipment simply because I use the high mobility stunts I learned by playing Conclave, so if Teshin is the Stalker he's doing something wrong.

Also, a little thing I want to add to this:

What if the Tenno aren't children, but:

A) The actual crew of the Zariman, reversed to child-like state by the same process that gave them their powers

B) The whole crew was devoured/destroyed by the Void, but some enegy materialized in a shape similar to that of the anihilated crew. So the Tenno are actually physical manifestation of Void energy in the guise of humans, that would explain why they don't age.

Doesn't account for the fact that Operators have memories of being children aboard the Zariman before the accident. Remember parents, remember studying, preparing to assume roles as adult colonists.

[Nazrethim]

5 minutes ago, Mak_Gohae said:

We are void energy beings like current vor?

But when the kids woke up they remember stuff before the trip. Did the energy even take the memories?

 

4 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Doesn't account for the fact that Operators have memories of being children aboard the Zariman before the accident. Remember parents, remember studying, preparing to assume roles as adult colonists.

"What IF"

Anyway, those may as well be fake memories for all we know, it's not like the Void has the power to alter minds, right?

Also, Ember's Codex Entry:

'And the crew was gone.'

'Not exactly.' Kaleen hesitated. 'We thought it was empty but we began to find...' Her face twitched at remembered pain, 'We began to find children hiding in the ship.'

---

When Kaleen reached the door she twisted out of his grip and shot back, 'Why would you do that? Why did you put children on military ship?'

'We didn't. That would violate procedure.

That last sentence may or may not be true. If it's true then chances are the Tenno are the zariman's altered crew or void beings that came into existance in the freak accident.

 

[BornWithTeeth]

Just now, Nazrethim said:

 

"What IF"

Anyway, those may as well be fake memories for all we know, it's not like the Void has the power to alter minds, right?

Also, Ember's Codex Entry:

'And the crew was gone.'

'Not exactly.' Kaleen hesitated. 'We thought it was empty but we began to find...' Her face twitched at remembered pain, 'We began to find children hiding in the ship.'

---

When Kaleen reached the door she twisted out of his grip and shot back, 'Why would you do that? Why did you put children on military ship?'

'We didn't. That would violate procedure.

That last sentence may or may not be true. If it's true then chances are the Tenno are the zariman's altered crew or void beings that came into existance in the freak accident.

 

That last sentence might as well be read as "Yes Kaleen, you naive idiot, we most certainly did perform horrifying Void experiments on children. You think I'm gonna say that out loud, on the official record?"

[Mak_Gohae]

1 minute ago, Nazrethim said:

 

"What IF"

Anyway, those may as well be fake memories for all we know, it's not like the Void has the power to alter minds, right?

Also, Ember's Codex Entry:

'And the crew was gone.'

'Not exactly.' Kaleen hesitated. 'We thought it was empty but we began to find...' Her face twitched at remembered pain, 'We began to find children hiding in the ship.'

---

When Kaleen reached the door she twisted out of his grip and shot back, 'Why would you do that? Why did you put children on military ship?'

'We didn't. That would violate procedure.

That last sentence may or may not be true. If it's true then chances are the Tenno are the zariman's altered crew or void beings that came into existance in the freak accident.

 

That statement could mean several things.

It could be it wasnt a military ship. Or they actually didnt put kids but the void turn the adults into kids, like you said.

[(XBOX)Tanta Cinta]

8 hours ago, xXRiomaXx said:

Let's jump him in the relay. +1

I can imagine a group of Tenno going to arrest Teshin like Mace Windu and the other Jedi Council Members went to arrest Palpatine only to discover the real truth.

[ObviousLee]

1 minute ago, (XB1)OTF SERENiTY said:

I can imagine a group of Tenno going to arrest Teshin like Mace Windu and the other Jedi Council Members went to arrest Palpatine only to discover the real truth.

i think you may like the additional information placed in the edit. i felt it helps flesh out the point much more concisely. 

[Nazrethim]

 

1 minute ago, BornWithTeeth said:

That last sentence might as well be read as "Yes Kaleen, you naive idiot, we most certainly did perform horrifying Void experiments on children. You think I'm gonna say that out loud, on the official record?"

That's why I said "IF it's true". We don't know. We can only guess.

I just marvel at the implications of the Tenno being Void entities that look like humans and have fake memories. That would mean the Orokin were somewhat right about fearing them, after all, an energy being capable of adopting a human form to blend in? and with potentially cataclysmic uncontrolled power?

[VisionAndVoice]

12 minutes ago, ObviousLee said:

I updated the OP with more info and fleshed out some things. I feel it may answer some of your statements.

 

*UPDATED INFORMATION IS IN THE EDIT AT THE BOTTOM OF THE OP.*

Goddamn you're difficult to read. All that dribble you water your post down with, that doesn't even have anything to do with your original point... my teeth ache from reading it. Seriously, learn to express your thoughts in brief matter, this is just paingul to go through.

Anyway.

9 hours ago, ObviousLee said:

The Stalker used Tyl to crack open the tomb of Hunhow, so that he could meet with Hunhow and help him kill his most hated enemy, the Tenno.

Except when they met it was Hunhow who told the Stalker that him just killing warframes one by one would accomplish nothing, otherwise Stalker would keep doing it.

 

9 hours ago, ObviousLee said:

However, as we've discerned a functional difference between Guardians and Tenno, although they are created essentially the same way, served differing roles in where they may have been deployed, as well as housed.

We did not. All you did was pulling a couple of things out of the blue, and used gameplay conventions as a basis for the lore.

 

9 hours ago, ObviousLee said:

To those saying the stalker was driven mad by the secret of the reservoir, yes, he was. a very long time ago. Did he know the location of the reservoir for tenno, well the answer is ObviousLee not. However, as we've discerned a functional difference between Guardians and Tenno, although they are created essentially the same way, served differing roles in where they may have been deployed, as well as housed. Remember, when the conversation between Ballas and the unknown person is going on, they're talking about the transference system and the kids from the Zeriman, who were consigned to Lua. A logical thinking empire, after discovering that children placed into the dream are easier to control and handle than the up an at'em children of the Zeriman were, would have sent in any further subjects(which they did as evidence by the Lotus stating as the Tenno numbers grew, they founded great schools) in a subdued dreaming state for essentially greater control and thus have an easier time of assigning roles and purpose. This means any future Guardian would not be aware of the fact that they were ever anything other than a Guardian, similar to how Tenno believe they are the WarFrame until they discover their physical body.

What does any of this has to do with anything?

9 hours ago, ObviousLee said:

Now, about the Tomb. Tyl does indeed refer to Teshin as a Psuedo Tenno which I did indeed neglect to mention due to feeling like it would honestly distract from and therefore reduce the weight of the rest of the presented information. Howver, the reason i refer back to the Tomb is it kind of explains things about the stalker being driven mad. See, when we read driven mad, most probably imagine something akin to him falling to his knees screaming in intelligible rage or something along those lines. From personal life experience, I've seen madness, and although it takes on quite a few forms, they're all relatively similar along one core commonality, which is doing things that make absolutely no logical sense to the masses. Something like say, taking a moment to realize that even if the you found the betrayers, you'd not have the ability to do much against them save for the weaklings. You'd hunt them down regardless, but you're under-powered in comparison. So, how can I tip the odds in my favor? The Sentients.... I can bring back the greatest enemy the Tenno ever faced. And while they're caught amidst the strife, I will strike. But.....how can I do this.....How can I bring about their resurrection... So, I set a plan in motion. I walked, and learned, while you slept. I sharpened my skills, I sharpened my mind. The Grineer have grown competent,pliable enough if given the proper motivation to the proper person. Like the location of an ancient artifact I found about six hundred Tuesdays ago.that leads to a tomb. Since I can't get inside to see what is in there, and all signs point to it being sentient, and I need to get in there but don't have the means, but hey! Tyl does." This is essentially a plan set in motion to make contact with the one species that gave us a genuine run for our money for the sake of revenge.

This passage does not contain even a single word that would back your theory. All you're doing is taking an assumption that you like and present it as a fact. But you give no facts that would back it. This whole passagfe, if not all of your post can be shortened down to "This is true just because I like how it sounds".

The Stalker has never been portrayed as the scheming, or even thinking type. He is a straightforward enforcer who can only use the most direct methods to accomplish the goals he set, he never did anything beyond just offing tenno one by one before Hunhow directed him to the Moon. The conclusion you're drawing here not just contradicts, it directly opposes the facts we have.

9 hours ago, ObviousLee said:

Dexter Morgan, a sociopath with a psychotic homicidal urge that threatens to lead to him losing complete control of himself and going on a murder spree that can only be quelled by picking stalking hunting and killing his prey (typically other serial killers) and claiming a trophy to remember them by. The reason i mention Dexter here is because if the Stalker and Teshin are indeed one and the same, as i fully believe they are, then they have very similar personality traits that are eerily similar. Both Dexter and Teshin are public figures who serve an important role within the story of which they exist as characters. Both are for the most part well liked, with minor differences of opinions based on who you talk to. some love Teshin/Dexter, some merely tolerate him, and some want to kill him if given the chance. Now i'm not saying TeshinxDexter or anything like that, but I am saying that iif you look at the Stalker and Teshin as one and the same, and you stand Dexter Morgan with his Dark Passenger next to Teshin and Stalker, well, seems like a mirror to me, psychologically speaking.

Same as above. You bring up comparisons and parallels that are completely unfounded. This passage can be summed up as "Teshin looks normal so he must be a psychopath because I like this idea". You mention no proofs, no incidents that would hint to his psychotich nature. All of that is a waste of space on our hard drives.

 

9 hours ago, ObviousLee said:

As to why nobody else could make new stalker type of frames, again everyone who had anything to do with Warframe tech is, and was, dead. we killed everyone that had to do with the project, as well as the royalty. On top of which Lotus, who again hid an entire celestial body(I literally cannot emphasize that enough, just consider the amount of mass just *pop* gone, and the power needed to make that happen. freaking mindboggling) as well as most likely did information control and destroyed any records available pertaining to the Warframe program. Remember, Lotus OPHACKSPLSNRF, which is game lore, with her only peer being fellow Sentients, or Hunhow himself.

And what does that have to do with "Teshin=Stalker"? Are you saying that since nobody could make new Stalker type frames then surely it must have been Teshin?

Why not Darvo then? He sold mass produced copies of Stalker gear, what stops him from being the mastermind behind Acolytes?

[OniDax]

Sorry, but you're wrong, OP. Because Teshin's not a Tenno. He's a Dax. And only the Tenno can operate Warframes. Stalker is a Tenno, an Operator controlling a twisted Excalibur Warframe. He's not Teshin. 

[Rhekemi]

You know, you could have titled this "Spoiler Theory: The Stalker's Identity"

Edited July 30, 2016 by Rhekemi

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

6 minutes ago, Rhekemi said:

You know, you could have titled this "Spoiler Theory: The Stalker's Identity"

why? its not really a spoiler as its theoretical and not credited 

 

[Evers]

1. Teshin would have to be a tenno to be able to operate a Warframe. And he is not.

2. Why would the Stalker have his reservoir in the Homebase of the Grineer Queens?

3. If Teshin would be the Stalker why would he attack Warframes while they are on the Field and not use the Relaystation to get to the Tenno once their Ships are near the Relay? Or Attack us on our Ships once we are in a Mission since he knows the position of our Ships.

4. If Teshin would be the Stalker (and that totally disregards Point 1 i made) why would he defend his Reservoir in the Homebase of the Grineer Queens with his actual Body instead of showing up as the Stalker

5. Now to the Reservoir, why is there an Orokin looking Room in the Homebase of the Grineer Queens? The Queens themself are Orokin (or Orokin related or an orokin experiment, something like that don't remember exactly what they were but it was one of the 3) so thats why there is an Orokin looking room in their Homebase.

 

I personally think that it would make alot more sense if Teshin is

a) spying for the Grineer Queens

b) Doubleagent for the Lotus watching the Queens

c) Teshin wanted to do a Lone Wolf Mission and blow up the Queens Homebase or something like that and there is something in the Room that we just don't know about and Teshin is acutally protecting us from it and the Trailer was just Cut in this way to make us assume that he is against us. But him beeing the stalker no, that makes absolutly no sense.

 

Edited July 30, 2016 by Evers

[Rhekemi]

@(XB1)EternalDrk Mako

My post did not say "You should have titled this Spoilers: The Stalker is Teshin. Confirmations Inside."

It did say three things:

-Politely suggested ObviousLee could have used a title to dissuade those who do not want to read theories (with a decent probability of being confirmed in the next quest) from clicking this thread.

-Vented via a meme because the theory is full of great depth and great points and thus seems plausible. Due to that, it spoils the fun of finding out in the next quest for me. (And if it turns out to be true, the thread will continue to grow once PC gets the update, and before PS4/XB1 gets it.)

-Politely suggests that ObviousLee can actually still change the title for those who don't want to know.

Whether or not it is a spoiler in your eyes, confirmed or credited, doesn't change that.