[Update 21.4.0] Hydroid Revisited Feedback

[Avynire]

Please some one make shark fin when Hydroid goes undertow (jaws theme playing in the background)

 

[chofranc]

Hi, when i'm play hydroid i can't tell if i'm charging or not, specifically the skill 1 which doesn't show any kind of indicator or animation that is charging or something, and sometimes you can charge his 1 and others you can't and i don't know why.

Edited August 11, 2017 by chofranc

[Cazzzz]

Unsure if anyone's mentioned this yet, but the vacuum mod on sentinels still sucks up a bunch of stuff while in Undertow, which blocks my view and stops me from pulling enemies in. Additionally, I was trying to pull an osprey in while in the void who was a little far away, and keeping a door open. When I tried to grab it, the door shut but it was still behind the door, thus rendering me unable to grab that enemy.

[Eldritchsqueaker]

Please make puddle faster, his 4 ought to have more range too, and give tracking or increase the hit frequency on his 1.. Maybe make tidal surge spawn tentacles with his 4 active too, he could use a lot more work still. This was a start.. but it doesn't do enough to make him 'good'.

[Shadedraxe]

51 minutes ago, (PS4)Tomplexthis said:

id rather have a fun game then a "good" game

fun games are entertaining, good games get boring

Wouldn't you rather have both? I'd like Hydroid to be a fun AND good frame. Like many of the other fun AND good frames.

[Shadedraxe]

10 minutes ago, Avynire said:

Please some one make shark fin when Hydroid goes undertow (jaws theme playing in the background)

 

That's probably the future deluxe skin

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

17 minutes ago, WaterWarrior said:

I feel encourage to share my ideas for Hydroid.I've got the concepts ready just to post them but how Can I paste pictures on my posts?

Share them away! here or in your own post, or BOTH!

Well i heard there is a site where you post pics and can paste them here. I prefer to do it with my DA account. I post them on my gallery and then copy it from there to here.

Also i think the link command on the forums works but you still need to post the pic somewhere.

[Chipputer]

4 minutes ago, Shadedraxe said:

Wouldn't you rather have both? I'd like Hydroid to be a fun AND good frame. Like many of the other fun AND good frames.

But Hydroid isn't bad. He's never been bad. He's just been a relic of older thoughts on how to balance the game, as a whole, and a little too heavy on the RNG for most people.

This post sounds like the reaction people had to Oberon's rework even though Oberon mains were reporting massive increases in their efficiency within their squads (which only got better when DE improved him based on the feedback presented).

You have to quit thinking that a frame that doesn't see much use is bad. If that were appropriate logic then Banshee would be considered a bad frame.

[Kierlak]

2 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

But Hydroid isn't bad. He's never been bad. He's just been a relic of older thoughts on how to balance the game, as a whole, and a little too heavy on the RNG for most people.

 

Hydroid IS bad, he's ALWAYS been bad. Hydroid's abilities are an absurd combination of pitifully ineffective, painfully clunky, and highly disruptive. And calling two abilities that you can cast and have them never hit a single thing through no fault of your own "a little too heavy on the RNG" is so disingenuous that it calls into question your moral character.

 

[13QZXXTTX]

:| Should I give up hope for Sexy Water Frame?

Recommended by:

 

[SasoDuck]

More feedback:
Please add a feed to the side of the screen, showing the enemies that Hydroid currently has trapped in Undertow. Right now, there's no indicator showing how much health any of the enemies in your puddle have remaining, and it's even less obvious if you have damage numbers turned off.

Additionally, having the in-world caustics effect for Hydroid's 1 and 4 and nice, but they're terrible for showing your actual charge range, or indicating to someone who didn't read the patch notes that you CAN charge the abilities at all. We need a much more obvious HUD display for this, as pictured here, for both Barrage and Swarm.

[Robotliar]

I found myself never needing to use Tidal Surge because of how energy expensive for how little it provides. Tidal Surge should instead be part of undertow as a way to travel faster as part of the sprint key and allows for a Hydroid to have more mobility. Additionally, having Tidal Surge within Undertow would drastically increase the way how Hydroid could move about without having Tidal Surge to overshoot or undershoot the distance. The 2nd ability should be replaced since Tidal Surge is not worth using under any circumstances.

[Synpai]

I really wish undertow was an AOE that Hydroid could walk into.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

I admit my expectations were really high right when I herd about this Hydroid revisit I envisioned Bruce Lee saying become water, and how it can flow or crash. I know it's early and I'm hopeful DE will continue working on Hydroid to make him better. Because right now I'm not feeling any kind flow or crash, from Hydroids revisit. 

With that said and since I can't leave feedback in the feedback thread I feel he needs some way to heal himself and/or generate his own energy. Also the kraken is a cool touch, I feel DE should expand on that. As well as I feel his abilities need to be more violent, more crash!

But all in all I think DE did pretty good with the revisit. The visuals are really well done. Just need to keep pushing a little further with it I think. 

Edited August 11, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[Azamagon]

Alright, tested him out a fair bit now.

Overall, it's a very good rework as it has added some neat mechanics and fun synergies, but I still feel he needs plenty of polishing.

Here are the problems I see with him, along with some proposals to solve these issues:

Tempest Barrage
Problems:
1) Considering the synergy between this and Undertow (capable of hitting enemies in the puddle), one would expect Tempest Barrage to actually... you know... deal some noticeable damage? It's a BARRAGE after all.
2) The chargeup makes it stronger, but also even MORE inaccurate (since the landing area gets bigger, but not the explosions). So the chargeup is kind of useless, imo.

Suggested solutions:
1) Make it have scalable damage of some form. It could take primary or secondary mods into account. It could work with enemy levels (a la Smite). Anything really, just so it actually hurts enemies.
2) Charging up the ability should also increase the size of the explosions, not just the landing area.

Tidal Surge
Problems:
1) While it works quite well as a "push enemies to this spot" kind of ability, I feel it's still kind of lacking. Some more utility would be nice

Suggested solutions:
1) How about making all enemies struck add to the melee combo meter? That'd go well with his very frontline-esque playstyle. Also, reducing its energycost to 25 would be nice too (it's not worth 50 energy, no matter how you look at it).

Undertow
I like grabbing enemies with it, and I love that you actually went through with the ability to use other abilities inside of it. The ability to roll out of it is also INCREDIBLY nice. So good, that some of its synergies feel less useful...

Problems:
1) Its new movement is heavily hampered by energycosts (mainly if you try to move inside it) as is the short-distance Tidal Surge. Rolling out of it and reusing Undertow is generally a better move.
2) Casting Tempest Barrage over Undertow (with the intent of hurting the enemies inside with it) is absolutely pointless, since it barely hits ANYTHING inside (and not to mention, Tempest Barrage deals negligible damage, but that's already covered)
3) It's still kind of trolly towards teammates (Eximus and all that considered)

Suggested solutions:
1) Lower the movement's energy cost. At least by half?
2) Make Tempest Barrage have auto-aim towards the pool while Undertow is active, for as long as there are alive enemies caught inside the pool.
3) Allow allies to shoot at a pool, with their damage split among all caught enemies, and let Undertow disable all Eximus auras of the enemies caught inside the pool.

Tentacle Swarm
Problems:
1) It still flails enemies around, making aim very difficult for yourself and allies.
2) Of all four abilities, this one doesn't have the same Undertow-centralized synergy as all the others do: Undertow keeps enemies in place, Tidal Surge lets you move or collect enemies into a good Undertow, Tempest Barrage lets you hit enemies inside the Undertow. But then you have Tentacle Swarm which just flails around, helping very little with anything at all.

Suggested solutions:
1) Once a tentacle hits an enemy, it could wrap around the enemy and strangle-crush it, keeping it still. This steadying of enemies would also go well with Tempest Barrage's new charge mechanics, letting you hit enemies somewhat more reliably.
2) Let Tentacle Swarm spawn OUTSIDE of the Undertow, rather than inside of it (and even more so if you charge it). That way, it can grab enemies your Undertow might've missed. And, due to its change #1 (keeping enemies still), if you wanna get the Tentacle-grabbed enemy into your Undertow, just "fire" at it (to pull it inside).

Passive
Problems:
1) It doesn't fit his kit. To be honest, it simply just stinks.

Suggested solutions:
1) Give him a new passive. Something that caters to his casting side perhaps, considering his energy-intensity.

With all these changes, you'd have a niche for each ability:
Tempest Barrage - Main damage source
Tidal Surge - Mobility and groupcollection
Undertow - Ability centralizer, hiding spot, Tempest Barrage accuracy helper
Tentacle Swarm - Main CC, general aimhelper

How you could play, generally;
Hide in Undertow and move around with Tidal Surge (before or after the Undertow). Cast Tentacle Swarm to keep enemies around you in place. Pull them in with Undertow's grabbing mechanic. Toss Tempest Barrage on 'em all for massive nukeage.

[EnderDDT]

For Hydroid, I'll start with the bad first:

It would be good if you could control from which angle the Tempest Barage (his 1) came down from. There are times when obsticles can get in the way, though that isn't often a problem. It would also be good to have some sort of indicator as to the area of his 1 and 4 so that you know where you should expect it to hit when you are first casting it.

And that really is the most negative thing I have to say about this rework.

His biggest problems, specifically in some of the negative aspects of range on his 1 and 4 abilities and the non interactivity of his 3, were taken care of very well and without changing the basic nature of the abilities. Also, the new graphics are just plain cool. The addition of the Kraken peaking up during his 4 is just over the top. Very nicely done. Furthermore the changes make his passive useful and other changes help to clarify his build priorities, two things that weren't even the main focus of the need for his rework but very good to see improved.

I've noticed that someone said something about the energy costs being high, but I didn't feel too much trouble with it so long as I used a basic Streamline mod (no other efficency mods) and didn't spam things too much. There are a LOT more oppertunities to use energy, however, so I can understand how people might not realize where the energy is going and just see the end result of runing out. Charging double the energy, grabbing while in your pool costs energy, and all of that adds up when you are used to a frame who had so many fewer options before.

The biggest measure of the rework, though is probably the fact that before I never invested the time and energy into Hydroid in order to even put a reactor and even a single forma on him: simply because he wasn't fun to play and before he did nothing that wasn't done better by some other frame. I've got over 40 forma and over a dozen reactors, and he /still/ wasn't worth the "waste" of resources. Thanks to this rework I actually plan to use him, likely I'll invest at least a reactor even before his prime version comes out (despite me knowing that he is the next prime scheduled). That is how much better he has become than he was before.

Here is to hoping that the Zephyr rework is just as good. Whomever was in charge of this update deserves a pat on the back (and possibly a raise ;) )

[Noabettiet]

Just have a few cents, related to the skill combos themselves.

• Enemies should take status effect damage while inside the poodle, such as and not limited to tenno skills. The purpose is just to open more ground for diverse builds with the synergy of weapons from other team members and skills like corroding barrage augment from hydroid. (Fun sake and rich gameplay variety)
   
• Undertow drown enemies, should stay inside the poodle even if moved with tidal surge. Sounds dumb that the skill that pushes enemies can't carry them too, when used in combination to undertow. (Consistency fix)
   
• Tentacle Swarm, while active, should increase the damage of enemies inside the puddle (undertow), maybe multiplicative damage and extra energy drain. IF they are nearby the tentacle swarm radius obviously. (Rich Gameplay Variety)
  • For variety sake in builds really. Maybe as an small synergy for players who want to dish controlled damage on a very specific and small radius, while giving a benefit for keeping and capturing enemies more. Undertow isn't weak in terms of damage by no means, but the point of this combo is really speeding up the possible damage within UNDERTOW radius, at cost of WAY more energy.
     
• Tidal surge cancel, by jumping too. Better navigation with the skill and control (Consistency Fix and Quality of Life change)
   
• Drown enemies should take much time recovering after getting out of undertow (stun time maybe?). In some cases, "some" enemies don't get knocked down even after being inside the puddle. (Consistency, rich gameplay variety)
  • The point of this suggestion, is to leave some breathing time for the player to either get off there or perform a counter-attack. Currently, it is up to RNG to which of the drown enemies are knocked down and which aren't. 
    • Possibly, maybe make the stun time based on strength mods, instead of duration. Kind of like, the insensitivity of the skill makes them take longer to recover! HOWEVER, i am fine if stun time is a fixed thing.

 

Can't think of nothing for now. But thank you so much for the attention, on the hydroid changes. I can definitely see so many community influences and am genuinly happy and stuff.

Edited August 11, 2017 by Noabettiet
Clarification

[Imniscor]

I really enjoyed the changes.
Very good changes.

Things I  would like to add :
- Barrage[1] : heals allies when they are hit by it.
- Passive : 100% chance to spawn a tentacle

Edited August 11, 2017 by Imniscor

[Paradoxbomb]

Just some quick feedback regarding Hydroid's changes.

• Tempest Barrage - I guess the charge function and ability to cast it in Undertow is a nice touch, but the ability still misses too much for my tastes and honestly it still feels an inferior version of his ultimate and doesn't warrant much reason to use it (except maybe with the augment).
• Tidal Surge - This ability has always been fine as it is and once again being able to use it with conjunction with Undertow makes Hydroid feel more fluid (heh). No complaints with this one.
• Undertow - I'll be honest, I kinda hoped this ability would've been replaced or changed so that Hydroid can conjure the puddle rather than be the puddle, so I'm a little sad to see it's ultimately the same. I mean the synergy with his other abilities is definitely nice, as you can cleanly combo his Undertow and Tidal Surge to corral enemies into a tentacle swarm, but being a slow moving puddle that burns quite a bit of energy to get around and makes enemies inaccessible to other players just isn't fun.
• Tentacle Swarm - Kind of a mixed bag on this one. It's definitely nice that the tentacles actually attack enemies now instead of flopping like a wet noodle, but the whole flailing enemies about is still really annoying since it makes enemies hard for you and your allies to shoot without some kind of AoE, and if an Ancient Healer gets caught in the swarm it basically renders the Ult near-useless since you can't get a clear shot at it. Personally I would've like to see larger enemies like Heavies and Ancients be held in place or grapple with the tentacles, locking them in place and making them easier to take out. Also it's kinda off-putting how the Kraken has an actual texture while it's tentacles are still water, how come it isn't one or the other?
• Misc:
  • The Shield/Armor buff is definitely appreciated, wouldn't have minded if he had a proper 450 shields like Rhino or Frost but it's still better than what it was.
  • Hydroid feels way to energy hungry to only have 150 energy. The synergy between his abilities is nice and all but having to collect and carry enemies around with Undertow and Tidal Surge (and likely throwing in those Tentacles) really burns through that energy pool of his.
  • His passive is still pretty useless. Fun I guess, but still useless. Having reduced status duration inflicted on himself or even regaining health/energy when standing in liquid would be better than what he has now.

Overall I'd say the update to Hydroid is alright but underwhelming. It definitely made his abilities synergize a bit better which is still good since that was something he was lacking, but aside from his Tentacle Swarm being able to grab enemies it feels like the opportunity to fix core issues with his skillset still remain.

 

Edited August 11, 2017 by Paradoxbomb

[Imniscor]

11 minutes ago, Imniscor said:

I really enjoyed the changes.
Very good changes.

Things I  would like to add :
- Barrage[1] : heals allies when they are hit by it.
- Passive : 100% chance to spawn a tentacle

Also :
- Tidal Surge[2] : Make it a Toggle that you keep traveling while in it. Lower the energy cost.

Edited August 11, 2017 by Imniscor

[Buddhakingpen]

2 hours ago, -Defeater- said:

vauban keeps enemies in one spot and can lock down the entire map

Hydroid flings enemies everywhere, all over the map for WAY more energy and can keep everything in one spot by clicking them one by one....until he moves (super slowly) away and they end up getting up, forcing you to spend more energy pulling them back in.

so yea, vauban if vaubans abilities were cumbersome and impractical 

Mod for range, switch over to 1 spam. If you're trying to use his 4 as your primary cc you're doing it wrong. 

Not to mention, hydroids cc has infinite cast range, vaubans are only deploys. 

Go into your 3 (or dont, but I'm guessing you're experience on hydroid is minimal,so that'll keep you safe), spam 1 a couple times, either cast 4 or just tidal surge into the enemies. His his 1 and 3 makes them unalert,giving you room to use stealth multipliers. You can also use his 4 to lock enemies in that unalert state, making them easy melee targets. Works even better with his 1 augment.

Played and kitted  properly, hydroid can 1-2 shot any DEAC with a melee weapon. And he's one of the only frames that has an ez mode way to deal with every enemy type ppl complain about.

Nullys-tempest barrage poops on them 

Osprey bombs-tempest barrage poops on them

Bombards- can shred their armor and "catch" their rockets with tidal surge, or just puddle to dodge it.

Edited August 11, 2017 by Buddhakingpen

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

1) Tempest barage

Nothing changes, except adding charge mechanic to summon a single "spirit bomb" of water. 

2) Tidal wave

Nothing changes, like the revisited one

3) Undertow

Similar with the current revisited hydroid, but with additional mechanics

Undertow now will leave a smaller puddles that will trap & drown half body of the enemies that already caught by undertow before, restricting their move for a duration after hydroid left the undertow

Performing tempest barrage while in undertow will change the undertow into a maelstrom, with additional slash damage. All augment on this power will also apply. 

Performing undertow mid air will turn hydroid into a waterball slamming to the ground (like zephyr's #2), damage & range of this slam attack increase with the altitude (duration on air before hitting the ground) , ragdolling enemies in the vicinity before turning himself into a puddle. 

4) Tentacle swarm

Nothing changes, except now its damage also affected by combo melee multiplier & it can also increase combo multiplier as well. 

 

AUGMENT 

Hell from the depths (all powers) 

All hydroid's powers now are made of oils, enemies hit with it will be covered in oil, increasing fire & blast damage to them. Upon killed with either fire or blast element,  these enemies will explode in similar elemental damage, causing damage around them. 

Edited August 11, 2017 by (PS4)ATreidezz

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

32 minutes ago, DesFrSpace said:

:| Should I give up hope for Sexy Water Frame?

Recommended by:

 

Well Hydroid protects the depts but someone has to protect the surface :D

[Rakosta_Kai]

Promising changes  but a little more could be added without unbalancing the apple cart.

 

1. Pilfering Swarm needs to be baked into Tentacle Swarm without need of a mod. It's a needless hoop to jump through at this point.

2. I think Hydroid needs to remain visible (but invisible) while Undertow is active... Maybe coat him in water gfx. (grounds eye view of missions is boring imo)

3. Holding powers is nifty, I'd like to see increased accuracy from Barrage if I am doing this though. Personally, I'd rather see Barrage become a swiss army knife of different skills (a la Ivara) because of how bad it is imo.

4. Barrage still has a crappy hit rate and the majority of his powers damage slowly... Can we consider allowing a chosen color option to adjust the nature of his water attacks slightly?

Water is a mutable substance so allowing Hydroid access to ancillary steam, acid, ice, and electrically conductive effects (positive for hydroid and teammates, negative for enemies)  

- This wouldn't increase his kill speed insomuch as it would enhance his impact as a controller in game.

[chainchompguy3]

12 minutes ago, Azamagon said:

Tempest Barrage

Problems:
1) Considering the synergy between this and Undertow (capable of hitting enemies in the puddle), one would expect Tempest Barrage to actually... you know... deal some noticeable damage? It's a BARRAGE after all.

While it's not too significant nor enforced, Hydroid is generally seen as a CC frame: he may very well be intended to have no significant sources of damage, in lieu of having all 4 of his abilities be significant CC.

 

Also, as far as I am aware, barrages are more meant as a means of Suppressive fire, rather than a damaging attack. If you want to eliminate an enemy, you make careful and precise strike. Barrages are generally for making aggressive oppentent go on the defensive, as you are pretty much guaranteed to land at least a few hits in the barrage. Not to mention that if they try to come closer during the barrage, they risk turning it into a shotgun-assault for themselves.

 

...actually, that last bit there would be interesting to see on hydroid. Having it so that, say, the explosions have a significantly increased chance of occurring around hydroid's position, if in radius. Enemies that come closer get more punishment, thus ensuring more survivability for our wee little pirate-frame.