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[DE]Rebecca

Melee: Present and Future goals!

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Its probably already been voiced but my only real concern for it is how Heavy attacks will work, i love watching the combo counter tick up,who doesn't love an arbitrary value go up as you press a button, but the idea of heavy attacks completely deleting the combo counter doesn't come off as great to me, id love for it to be either put with a combo "charge bar" where the combo retains its current standpoint but heavy attacks will have a separate but linked to the combo system thing to charge and use them, or heavy attacks only use partial bits of the combo, ie, maybe with the combo meter multiplier having more linear tiers, instead of consuming the combo hits, it consumes a bit of the combo multiplier, IE you hav a 4.0x multiplier stored up, and use a heavy, it would bring it down to 3.5, it could then potentially allow heavy unloads for high priority enemies while you build up combo on trash mobs, things as the such

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With melee getting looked at it's probably a good time to start looking at blocking and how it's used/not used.

I for one never block because there's never been reason to. I can just bullet jump or strike enemies around cover, or just simply kill them before they can hit me. That doesn't mean blocking couldn't be useful. Just currently it isn't. Without 100% block chance you're just effectively losing hp or shields without really gaining too much. You can much easier take out a lancer for example by simply just bullet jumping up to them and doing an air attack, or slide attack. Even at high levels it's more efficient to try and conserve your hp by evasion rather than block them

My proposal: 

With melee equipped make a bar similar to the operator's energy bar that appears around your cursor when blocking. Give block a 100% chance to block fire and hits so long as you have the energy in that bar, and make taking hits erode that bar until your block is broken. Make the block bar recharge over time or with kills. And most of all allow players to block knockdowns and shockwaves. Perhaps also allow the use of block to cut tethers from scorpions and ancients before you actually get fully dragged to them. 

The goal of this then would be to allow you to have clutch blocking without energy cost while making melee combat against heavy units more viable without having to resort to "kill them or cc them before they can land any attacks"  and to also allow quick blocking to find cover and conserve player hp, considering in most missions without pets attacking or medi ray it seems to be a limited resource. 

 

 

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 Seeing as you may actually be taking this a bit more seriously than I thought, you should really look at making scythes actual 2 handed pole-arm scythes, not like the current pickaxes that we have today. Do that, along with beautiful sweeping stance moves and you will win so much money from me. I would be willing to give over 100 dollars starting out for this attention to detail, and I'm sure others would as well. Eradicating the old scythe design would probably be your best bet, with complete remodels of the current scythes and a revamp of all current stances; I can confidently say that no one would miss them. Here is a good example of a decent pole-arm scythe used in combat

Spoiler

 

 A scythe is a weapon not unlike the bo staff, weaving the weapon in and around your body for maximum momentum and striking all around you in a flurry, being able to slice through any enemies without remorse. It can also strike downward for a smashing attack, or slash at head level and then yank it back for a decapitating slice. Asking so much starting off is not what I intend, but the scythe is such a beautiful weapon that I would love to be able to wield it in this fashion in warframe

Edited by NightSniper
less obtrusive video, and better video showcase

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seeing the sheer amount of comments posted here is impressive and what's even more impressive is that a lot of them are full of good ideas, so I thought I should participate with my 2 cents. the melee rework is a must, the stance's combo are here but no one really uses them (mashing 1 button is easier). Here are a couple of points I think are relevant:

  • first, being stuck in the animation is really a big problem (but from what I have seen in the devstream it's being worked on to which I was like YAY) 
  • second, the game is all about fighting hordes of enemies and having to hit one enemy at a time is really troublesome (except for some stances where you have an AOE), to this i think we should always have some combos that will hit multiple enemies and other (with stronger hits) that will focus on a single target with the ability to change in the middle of the combo (by cancelling the animation). so if the heavy attack is introduced just allow it to be part of the combo (alternating light and heavy attack would be the combo, and not mashing the light attacks to build up the combo counter)
  • third, from what I've heard during the devstream only the heavy attack will use the combo counter by depleting the whole thing in one single attack. I dont think it's a very good idea as this will send some modes down the drain, I think it would be wise to allow both light and heavy to use the counter (to scale the attacks, of course light and strong attack would scale differently) and maybe create some super attack that will use the whole counter,  with this the melee will be fun and not some task that we have to do just to get the job done because we play as super ninja with crazy abilities 😃.

well that's pretty much it, didnt want to right a lengthy post but just some ideas that I have which I think are shared by other players.

     

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I'm honestly not sure how to feel about this.

Spin2Win definitely had to go. Broken, annoying to use, bad for your fingers - glad that it would be gone. However everything else feels like a 'return to the basics'. As i played just after melee 2.0 hit, i really get that feel.

Back then, sure, melees were actual melees - range of 4m on Orthos was breath taking back then. Melee counter was nonexistant as 3s were not enough to keep it(no +counter duration back then). But in overall, melees were in bad shape compared to firearms. It was painfully obvious when melee was used mainly for Coptering and not for killing.

-Now, combo counter is gone. Quite alarming, how much will sustained dps will drop? The heavy attack should be tweaked appropriately with extremely large numbers.

Edit: Example, Currently 300 hits with 100 damage per hit  and 5-hit base for the multiplier results in (hits*damage) 5*100+10*150+30*200+90*250+165*300= 80'000 total damage. If we get 10% base increase, 110, heavy attack is with channeled damage mult(50%), 165, and it increases its multiplier for every hit by 1, then we have for 299 hits and 1 charged attack: 299*110 + 1*299*165 = 82'225 total damage. Ofcourse, many factors must be accounted, but yeah. Fair exchange like this is needed.

-The range will be diminshed, the question is just how much? This will hinder  dps greatly as one will not be able to hit multiple enemies. If we exclude rivens, the base range should compensate so the total non-riven range to be equal to the current non-riven range.

-No hits through walls. Actually, very nice. It hinders only that situational dps that looked quite broken - good. But should be accompanied with a fix for in-wall spawns.

-Ragdoling in heavy attack. Oh boy, i hope this does not apply to all heavy attacks. 'looks cool' but awful for melee combat.

That brings my concerns if melee will go back into its original uselessness. If we exclude the spin attacks, other melee dps should not be hindered.

Edited by scourge213
Better example numbers
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Getting rid the combo counter is a dumb idea. Without it the melee damage will never scale to high level content. But on the other hand spin to win does need to be changed but please don't mess with maiming strike it's one the best mods in the game. If nothing else change how the combat system works like the melee going through walls. But please don't mess with the mods them selves or get rid of the combo counter. 

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@[DE]Rebecca It is ok to 'correct' melee hitting through walls.... but I hope there is an equal effort to 'correct' the bug of enemies and stuffs spawning behind walls that required a melee with range to hit them through walls.

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Am 11.5.2018 um 21:11 schrieb lihimsidhe:

Channeling Becomes a Universal Buff Mode. Available at the execution of a single command (single key or multi key press), the Warframe surges with void power. A warframe's parkour, firearms, melee, blocks, archwing, operator, abilities, etc are all buffed in some way either innately or via mods.  Adjust the energy economy to be proportionate to the buff granted. The reason channeling isn't in widespread use is because by time the average player switches to melee mode to use it, Mr. xXSpin2WinYOLOXx just cleared half the room. Even when a Tenno goes through the trouble, the payoff is hardly worth it. It's as the old saying goes: if you can't beat them, join them. Remove the melee mode requirement for channeling, make the buffs worthwhile and it will see a massive upswing in use. The potential for channeling is staggering; don't sacrifice an ocean of potential by merging it with block... which is still locked behind a cumbersome, restrictive, dedicated melee mode.  PLEASE. If Warframe ever becomes an anime, channeling will be the signature 'I'm going to destroy you with overwhelming power' moments. Meanwhile it still can be that exact thing in the actual game.  PLEASE!!!

I like all of your ideas but i think there is some room for improvements. As Rebecca said they think about adding a constant energy drain or even a seperate ressource and i think the seperate ressource would be the best idea.

Like you said they shouldnt merge channeling  with blocking. Channeling should be a special mode which you reach if you reach the max of the new ressource ( lets call it adrenalin ) As soon as you reach max adrenalin you can activate the channeling mode which leads to more dmg,higher attack speed,100% block(maybe even 100% dmg reflect) for a limited time.

How to reach max adrenalin ? (adrenalin is bound with the combo multiplier ... the higher your adrenalin the higher your combo multiplier)  

Thats easy every attack (in melee mode of course) adds to adrenalin but not every attack adds the same amount ... heavy attacks , combos and finishers ( talking about finishers later ) will add more adrenalin than fast/normal attacks. That makes using combos more rewarding.

Lets us  talk about finishers.

Games like Witcher and Assassins Crees Origins beat em up games like Mortal Kombat and even the new Doom taught us the great value of finishers.  

Im not sure if there are even plans for finishers in the melee rework but if not i would highly recommend some changes. @[DE]Rebecca

 

1. Some of the Animations are not working ... for example if you try to stealth finish an enemy it sometimes looks like you trying to break the neck of a ghost instead of the grineer/corpus guy.

2.The transitions from normal combat to finisher and back arent smooth ... it feels like a hickup.

3. Even though they are called "finishers" it doesnt mean that your enemy is dead by the end of the animation ... for example if you use a ground slam on a high lvl enemy and then use a ground "finisher" it wouldnt finish him off.

 

1 and 2 are just visually unpleasant but 3 is where the problem lies.

 

So how can we fix the problem ?

Its easy we just dont call them finisher ... case closed . 🙂

nah just kidding ...

We just need to use them when we actually want to use finisher moves ... its the end of a fight when the enemy is low on health so it actually finishes them off.

Does this mean i want DE to remove the ground "finishers" and other "finishers" like this ? no 

But some visual difference between an action where the enemy stands up again after a "finisher" and after a real finisher move would be great.

 

Now the questio is how do we know when we can use a real finisher move ? 

Eidolons .... if we think of eidolons we think about the visual and audio feedback we get if we destroy the shield.

This would be a possibility but just imagine 10 grineer butchers who are blinking like a christmas tree ... its not the best choice.

 

So we need sth more subtle .... like a cracked display just apllied on the health bar of the enemy.

 

One question remains though ... how are we gonna use finishers should it be automatically or should we push a button or even use a combo for them ?

I think everyone should decide for themselves ... so there would be an option for auto or manually finishers.

 

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9 hours ago, Cibyllae said:

Someone please explain how these changes put forth so far spell impending doom for the spin meta

Combo counter changes and not being able to hit through walls like you can now.  We also don't know how big the nerf to range mods will be versus the buff, I would like to think that they'll be no worse than they are now with primed reach applied but like many others I'm expecting the worst here (couldn't care less about not being able to do spin to win, but losing overall range will be bad imo)

Edited by LSG501

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On 2018-05-12 at 12:09 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:
  • Melee attacks (including spin attacks) will no longer sweep through walls or objects.

 

While I'm on board with nerfing Maiming Strike.I do not look forward to the change.I suggest that only spin attacks should be stopped by walls.An enemy stuck inside a wall in a melee-only sortie can cause problems.

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I am happy to see damage through walls stopped, no so sure on objects, can just see me chasing a charger round and round a table...not fun

Edited by (PS4)TheDrift-

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-will all weapons got range buff? if the range mods won't do as much as now in the future seems it's kinda needed to increase the base range too,

-do aerial combos will be more exciting ? i mean looking at the video on changes for the slam damage seems aerial combos works perfectly and kinda great if some how melee aerial implemented

-combo counters excitement: can we add more excitement when getting increased on combos counter? while the excitement of combo counter isn't the damage increase anymore how about make it eye pooping like devil may cry combo thingy

overall it's kinda interesting looking for the changes

-thanks for reading-

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On 2018-05-11 at 3:11 PM, lihimsidhe said:

Before I begin with Warframe's combat system, I'd like to briefly talk about Devil May Cry's combat system.  Without going into too much detail the player does not have to choose between 'firearm mode' or 'melee mode' as a Tenno does. The player has access to all their moves from a default 'stance'.  It also has a unified combo system.  Meaning that regardless of the weapon a DMC player has the combos they learned for their first weapon works on any subsequent weapon they acquire.

While there is a lot more to DMC's combat than that, Capcom's approach has created a combat system that is near peerless in its execution.

Warframe is a different game on many levels so a straight copy and paste into Warframe wouldn't work well as any of us would hope.  However, there are 4 things Warframe can import from DMC that would work wonders:

  • The elimination of 'firearm mode' and 'melee mode'.  
  • The implementation of universal combos.
  • An emphasis on aerial combat
  • A combo counter that rewards variety over repetition.

I feel if the below suggestions were followed not only would it be of a lesser scope than what DE has planned, it would salvage mechanics with great potential that have languished for years, and it would be a more accessible system overall that gives rise to depth built on the backs of proven legends such as Devil May Cry and Ninja Gaiden.

Dedicated melee and firearm modes are the primary obstacle holding Warframe's combat back.

Quite simply I'm suggesting a quick firearms/quick melee system instead.

How It Would Work

Quick Melee Is the Gateway to All Combos. Any combo a stance grants can be executed with the quick melee button.  However, considering Berserker and Fury are a thing, the commands to execute said combos need to account for this. I'd also suggest that the travel distance that some combos force upon a Tenno be more varied between stances; I personally don't like when a combo string has me moving wildly about but some Tenno may love it. Give us that choice.

Quick Fire is the Gateway to All Shooting. Simply press the fire button and you fire regardless if you are deep in a combo or not. Allow Quick Fire to cancel at least some melee attacks. By doing so you'll see players invent their own combos; trust me on that.

Combos Have Universal Inputs. Glad to see this in the OP.  Once a new player learns the combos for their MK-1 Bo or Skana, they now know how to execute all combos Warframe will throw at them.

  • At Least Two Types of Combos Per Stance. An AoE focused one (because Warframe is a horde game) and a single target focused one (for that rare enemy that actually demands more than passing effort. Ex: Nox).  Without a stance a weapon still has a combo string.  This string is still accessible once a stance is equipped.

Aerial Combat. As it stands if a Tenno executes an aerial attack they can not attack again for 1-2 seconds and I have no idea why.  If players could launch enemies into the air and pursue them with flurries of aerial attacks, I would wager a lot of Tenno would find that fun and useful. However, Warframe should ditch the 'floatiness' of enemies being attacked while airborne unless mods or Warframe/Operator/Archwing abilities call for that.

  • Make Wall Attacks Useful, Please. I have tried my hardest to use these in combat and despite my best efforts they just aren't.  Simply allow them to travel in the direction a player is aiming, removing the end roll animation, with a massive buff to speed and distance traveled and viola! #wallAttacksSaved.
  • Not all Down Attacks Should Be Slam Attacks. A Tenno's option while in the air is either to do an attack that prevents them from attacking for 1-2 seconds period, a momentum killing slide attack, or a slam attack.  Slam attacks make sense for the Fragor but what about a Ceramic Dagger? Sometimes I'd rather just do a downwards aiming non slam attack from the air as I dart around like... a ninja.
  • Aerial Combos. Either allow all of of a weapon's combo to be used in the air or convert at least one existing combo to be used in the air.

Combo Meter Skews Towards Variety, Not Repetition. Reward players more who don't do the same exact attack over and over and over.  1 hit should always add something to the combo counter.  But reward the player more who has explored the depths of what Warframe's combat system has to offer and uses the full bag of tricks at his or her disposal regularly.

Channeling Becomes a Universal Buff Mode. Available at the execution of a single command (single key or multi key press), the Warframe surges with void power. A warframe's parkour, firearms, melee, blocks, archwing, operator, abilities, etc are all buffed in some way either innately or via mods.  Adjust the energy economy to be proportionate to the buff granted. The reason channeling isn't in widespread use is because by time the average player switches to melee mode to use it, Mr. xXSpin2WinYOLOXx just cleared half the room. Even when a Tenno goes through the trouble, the payoff is hardly worth it. It's as the old saying goes: if you can't beat them, join them. Remove the melee mode requirement for channeling, make the buffs worthwhile and it will see a massive upswing in use. The potential for channeling is staggering; don't sacrifice an ocean of potential by merging it with block... which is still locked behind a cumbersome, restrictive, dedicated melee mode.  PLEASE. If Warframe ever becomes an anime, channeling will be the signature 'I'm going to destroy you with overwhelming power' moments. Meanwhile it still can be that exact thing in the actual game.  PLEASE!!!

Block Anytime, Anywhere. The Tenno either can execute a single command (single key or multi key press)  to block. Allow most actions to be cancelled into blocks. Blocking always should have been a fallback action for when a Tenno finds themselves in trouble regardless of what they are doing. This is another clear example how dedicated firearm/melee modes hold back Warframe's potential. Get ready for block damage % to matter just as much as base damage, status, and crit.  Also I can't mention blocking in a serious manner without referencing this. 🙂

Charged Attacks. Take inspiration from Ninja Gaiden.  If charged attacks evoke a sense of power and unleash a massively amped up attack, I'd wager Tenno would use them.  Especially in solo.  However give Tenno the option between consuming some of the combo counter - all of the combo counter.  There's no need for a separate key for heavy attacks when holding in one key can accomplish the same thing. Just make the charged payoff scale to the time held in instead of 'must hold in for x time or you get nothing'. You'd be surprised to see how much more charged attacks would be used when they can be tailored to the situation.

Roll Cancelling.  Quite simply, I'm very happy to see this in the OP. Go the extra step and allow us to cancel our rolls by hitting roll again. Give roll cancelling a cooldown period equivalent to the duration of a roll to prevent abuse.

Cosmetic Stances. Finally some players may be really fond of the cosmetic animation of carrying their firearms with all other weapons holstered or carrying their melee weapon with all other weapons holstered.  Also there's the issue that the idle animations we assign to our warframes don't prompt in missions.  Simple fix: the cosmetic stance of a warframe is determined by the last type of action they performed with the types being: firearms, melee, and abilities with abilities prompting an all weapons holstered, idle animations when still cosmetic stance.

The biggest problem still remains though: DE could create the most exquisite combat system known to man BUT the enemies in Warframe are dumb as #*!%.  Fodder.  Trash mobs.  And Warframe gears Tenno with the Infinity Gauntlet to steal candy from a baby.  But that's a whole other day, a whole other story.


tl;dr: Change the existing firearm/melee modes into a quick firearm/quick melee system, remove the cooldown for aerial attacks, make wall attacks worth it, gradient charged attacks > separate key for heavy attacks, reward varied combos more than repetitive ones, channeling's potential is stunted by being locked behind a dedicated melee mode.

Update: @GrayArchon and @NightmareT12 have brought up valid concerns about how all this can work on console controllers.  I will explain how.

The PS4 has two features the XB1 controller does not: a touch pad and motion/tilt controls.  So this means any new mapping scheme has to work on an XB1 controller first. If a mapping scheme can be addressed by an XB1 controller it can scale up to the PS4 and PC.

https://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-one/accessories/xbox-one-wireless-controller

Counting the X, Y, A, B, Left Bumper, Right Bumper, and 4 directional pad inputs that's 10 mappings.  A factorial is a mathematical operation to figure out how many combinations are possible if a given quantity of things is known which in this case is 10.  What is the factorial of 10?  I used this online factorial calculator and got this:

3,628,800

If we count holding any button in as a separate mapping the total mappings jump up to 20 which gives us a factorial of:

2.4329020082e+18 (not even sure what this means other than its huge)

Out of the millions of combinations of buttons on an XB1 controller the proposed melee rework would require additional mappings in the single digit quantity.  Hope this clears things up.

 

Amazing Post!

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I'm not going to attempt to read fourty-and-a-bit pages of posts, however, I'm looking forward to the changes as listed on the Devstream (and here in the second post of this thread).

I am agonising over how to deal with people I know who are going to cry tears of screaming blood over losing "spin to win" but I'm looking forward to seeing it gone, and the sooner the better.

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2 hours ago, Planegg said:

I like all of your ideas but i think there is some room for improvements. As Rebecca said they think about adding a constant energy drain or even a seperate ressource and i think the seperate ressource would be the best idea.

I'm not against a separate resource per se. You nor did anyone else imply that I am acting like Warframe is my game and/or my suggestions are the only one that have merit.  However, I am for Channeling's resource remaining energy because:

  • It already fits within the lore framework.
  • An additional resource would require another UI element and Warframe's UI is already in a cluttered, poor, state.  Ex: If you have a squad with Titania and Octavia, all the buffs you'll get will clearly show that Warframe's current UI direction is not sustainable. That's not even mentioning all the other UI elements that fight for screen real estate.

So while it's possible another UI element can be worked in to an already crowded arena, I'm wary.  That's all.

2 hours ago, Planegg said:

Its easy we just dont call them finisher ... case closed . 🙂

I mean... I know you're joking but you're joking suggestion would be a marked improvement.  These attacks don't always finish enemies so they really shouldn't be called finishers.  It may seem simple but if you look at Warframe as a whole, a disregard (intentional or DE just doesn't have the time/resources) of simple things like this contributes a great deal to why the new user experience in Warframe is like hitting a brick wall of obscured complexity.  In other words, I really, really, really like your non serious, joking suggestion. 🙂

2 hours ago, Planegg said:

2.The transitions from normal combat to finisher and back arent smooth ... it feels like a hickup.

This is the fundamental problem of the finisher system.  It's a very cool concept on paper but in execution right down to the animations and how sometimes enemies 'shrink' to fit into a finisher... it's just not that great.  

While I haven't given as much thought to the finisher system as much as the other aspects of combat I'm definitely up for talking with you trying to come up with a solution that makes us both happy.  However I will say off the top of my head enemies that are eligible for a finisher; if the only thing that happened is that all damage they took during that state ignored all innate defenses and were amped and were guaranteed to start at the red crit level, that would be a start.

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On 2018-05-12 at 3:09 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

  • Combo Counter minimum hits per tier adjusted significantly so higher tiers can be reached more quickly and easily. Combo Counter damage multiplier may apply to heavy attack only and all points are spent on attack.

Am I reading this correctly? That only heavy attacks are only affected by combo counter damage? I believe this will make more melee weapons useless unless they really need to buff all melees and stances with added bonus damage and decent ranges. I was enjoying my zaw w/ Tempo Royale stance and they will somehow nerf the light attacks? Some of my frames got better survivability on my zaw w/ Primed Fury and Berserker mod. The only problem here is the "spin2win is kinda cancerous" but don't get me wrong, even on this overpowered mechanic extends our survivabilty in battle.

- Why not just add some damage % cap and crit chance cap while doing spin attack/maiming, since it seems that this is one of the main problem?

- Doing combos on stance aren't that fun in the first place, maybe improve better button combination = more user friendly on most players?

- Does light attacks still compete on high-level missions + onslaught missions? It better be still that way.

- Will heavy attacks ragdoll enemies alot? It looks like the spread of dps on ragdolled enemies isn't that sufficient killing hordes of them.

- Maiming on walls is broken, really need to remove it.

Edited by ChronoJXF
Edited
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I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but the main problem/exploit that people are using for their spin2win is the fact that Maiming Strike applies before Blood Rush.  Take the Atterax for example.  25% base crit chance, 3x crit multiplier.  With maxed Blood Rush, after just five hits, you have ~87% crit chance.  But with maiming strike, after the same time, you get just under 400% crit chance.  That's a 9x multiplier if you don't use Organ Shatter, 16.2 if you do.  That's where the insane scaling is coming from.

If Maiming Strike applied after Blood Rush, things would be different.  Following the same example of Atterax with Blood Rush/Maiming Strike and a 1.5 combo multiplier, a spin attack would have only 177% crit chance.  The average crit multiplier would be around 4.5, or 7.7 with Organ Shatter.

This cuts down on how long a Maiming Strike/Blood Rush build can last in a survival mission while still letting that build be usable in pretty much the entire game, except for a select few cases.

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1 hour ago, Raphaello said:

I'm not going to attempt to read fourty-and-a-bit pages of posts, however, I'm looking forward to the changes as listed on the Devstream (and here in the second post of this thread).

I am agonising over how to deal with people I know who are going to cry tears of screaming blood over losing "spin to win" but I'm looking forward to seeing it gone, and the sooner the better.

That's Not whats everyone is upset about. You should really read before you judge.

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Saying this just in case if prompted finishers aren't going to be touched in any way: please let us rebind the key for them or at least move it to something else than melee attack. Since with normal attacks you could easily kill ten enemies in the time it takes for the finisher animation to play (and not necessarily even kill the enemy), it feels simply horrible when something out of your control opens enemies to finishers and the game forces you to do them. While they have their use with Covert Lethality for example, for the usual flow of combat they're quite the disaster.

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21 hours ago, Krendal said:

The heavy attack looks really slow.... not worth it any way shape or form. By the time you swing the weapon level 80+ enemies will kill you. The only way I see the expending the combo counter worth it is to have the attack one shot 80+ eximus enemies, otherwise, there is no point to this. 

Yeah, it's the same problem as with "I need to block now!" *Switch to meleé, wait roughly 2 seconds for the animation to finish*, "Oh I'm dead, nevermind!". The mechanics need to be responsive enough that we can use them exactly when needed. I don't imagine heavy attacks, specifically, would be an issue if they were to benefit from attack speed mods though, as long as it's in a "Good without, better with" kind of way as opposed to being unusable without.

Another question is: What about Landslide and the other Warframe powers that benefit from the combo counter?

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Hey all!

Just wanted to notify people in this thread that due to some merging accidents, the location of the thread and its comments had to be moved slightly. In this process, a number of earliest posts made here were combined into one single post completely unintentionally. I apologize to all of the posters of these comments for the inconvenience and loss of potential forum reputation.

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1 minute ago, [DE]Aidan said:

Hey all!

Just wanted to notify people in this thread that due to some merging accidents, the location of the thread and its comments had to be moved slightly. In this process, a number of earliest posts made here were combined into one single post completely unintentionally. I apologize to all of the posters of these comments for the inconvenience and loss of potential forum reputation.

I saw that - Thanks for fixing.

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Just nerf maiming strike then , I don't see the need to change everything so drastically. no one was complaing about melee. You guys are trying to fix something that wasn't broken .Rather than going through all this, why not just tweak the stats and change the mr requirements like you did for primarys / secondarys. All this is going to do is irritate people because EVERYONE  will have to change their builds on all thier weapons, I like the idea of strong and light attacks and channelling definitely needs a rework, but removing the melee combo counter isn't necessary. It will take away one of the things that made melee unique. Yes doing nothing but slide attacks is boring, but what is less fun is having  all your builds altered, which is just annoying 

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39 minutes ago, [DE]Aidan said:

Hey all!

Just wanted to notify people in this thread that due to some merging accidents, the location of the thread and its comments had to be moved slightly. In this process, a number of earliest posts made here were combined into one single post completely unintentionally. I apologize to all of the posters of these comments for the inconvenience and loss of potential forum reputation.

You killed my post Aidan. Now I expect full retribution by adding the cancel melee animation by transitioning into a warframe ability cast demand to be implemented as compensation.

... please¿ :3

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RIP Forum post and 20 reputation, my life will never be the same again

 

Edited by NightmareT12
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