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[Update 22.2.0] Saryn Revisted 2.0 Feedback MEGATHREAD


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1 minute ago, Pendragon1951 said:

and miasma is just not what it use to be, took me 6 casts of it to kill a group of 8 level 100 gunners

it synergizes with the first ability so spread the spores let the corrosive proc then cast ult you will do much much more damage

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1 minute ago, CpTKugelHagel said:

but you need the duration for the 3rd ability (atleast some duration)

67% duration gives me 32,5s duration. With a cast time that fast that is more than enough! Is still more than 100% duration Saryn before the rework :S

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3 minutes ago, Pendragon1951 said:

did that still took forever to kill them, and as I read I think that is a recurring theme is "time" for me it just takes too long to kill something now

You must be doing something wrong, mate. I can clear 20 lvl 135 Heavy Gunners in a matter of 20 seconds :S

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looks like spores spread radius is smaller than before. Or is it just me ?

Edit : I also think that it would be nice if the spores exploded only when we hold 1, instead of a quick press. As it is now, it's difficult to get as many spores as before on the field, because of the dmg sclaing.

Edited by Saoren
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it looks like some users are reporting some weird spreading mechanics which involve line of sight , if it's the case it's really counterproductive , line of sight shouldn't affect spores even tho i can't say i have experienced that myself.

I thought miasma wasn't supposed to kill the spores so i hope it's a bug, whether it's another saryn or myself using it.

AoE weapons should spread the spores as reliably as they used to , the detonation spores and inability to recast them is simply bad, even tho i guess it's to counter balance the infinite duration and dmg scaling because we could just keep refreshing them by recasting but i honestly don't like the fact a second activation destroys all the spores.

as per miasma dunno i didn't find myself using it much if not at all till wave 10, the spores and the ignis wrait with toxic lash were enough. i didn't even bother melee at all i felt there was no need for it, things were simply dieing fast to the point i kinda wished the spawn rate was quadrupled both in numbers of enemies and faster respawns lol.

On a side note i personally need to test more against something around lvl 200 to start enjoying the full potential,eventually you should consider raising up the lvl scaling in ESO, start at lvl 100+ and onward

Ps: can we have molt explosion range be the same as Miasma ? it was already shorter prior to miasma boost, at 235% range Miasma is 47m while Molt explosion range is 23.5 aka the exact half of it

 

Edited by arm4geddon-117
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22 minutes ago, Koed said:

You must be doing something wrong, mate. I can clear 20 lvl 135 Heavy Gunners in a matter of 20 seconds :S

Solely with spores? abilities?

nvm, just never clocked my kill times. x)

Edited by Patzer
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I like the update, but think there might be an issue with toxic lash and spreading spores. Had it active with an assault rifle and was having trouble spreading.  Only had limited time to try, but from what I saw so far it still looks like my old way of spreading them is still more dependable.

  Other issue I ran in too was since you can only have 1 active cast of spore, you run in to an issue were you have built up a lot of dmg on that spore, and it goes out of range of others. In this case, you have to hunt down the last person that has spore and kit him to an area filled with more people, or start over and build up the counter over.

 Prior to patch it was easier to keep spores up from the perspective find a pocket of bad guys, drop spore, pop spore, and kill them all. Now it feels a little like, cast spore and chase it.  It would be cool if base dmg of spore was increased but there was a delay before the damage started to go up. Like it takes a few seconds for the spore to take hold.  not sure the real numbers at the moment but let’s say it takes 60 secs to hit 1000 dmg/tick  with a start 10  dmg/tick ,  still keep the  time to 1000 the same but start with a base of 500 with a  30 sec delay, or something along those lines. Makes it a little less painful if you lose a spore chain, but keeps the spore on the same scaling interval.

Alternately, you could use the same type of setup as nidus, where dmg counter is attached to warframe. For example, cast spores the damage starts to tick up. All spores are gone dmg starts to tick down. Exploding spores costs dmg, casting spores costs dmg.  This would work better from the perspective of keeping the dmg scaled but not having to babysit spore spreading as aggressively.

Initial Thoughts:

              Spores:   Increase Base damage with delay, or do the same thing like nidus, where exploding your spores, reduces damage stacks (could do the same thing where casting spores reduces damage stacks as well and hold the dmg stack on the warframe like the mutations). Doing solo missions or stories with the current state means I have to cast spores hide for a few seconds to let spore spin up and then go in an start spreading on high level content.

Molt: Like how it works now, makes it easier to get away or control enemies.

Toxic lash: think there might be a bug where it doesn’t cause spreading like intended. Although the added dmg is nice, and grateful it now works on all weapons.

 

[Will Test More when i get a chance]

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26 minutes ago, Mimibomber said:

Yeah, AoE attacks don't spread the spores as well as before.

Rip my Hikou Prime + concealed explosives build.

Hey! AoE will spread Spores with Toxic Lash active :) 

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Spore is absolutely horrible in my experience, Ramped it up to 200 (sometimes not even 100) and then boom, it stops, no enemies or it won't spread to ANY around, which is absolutely terrible.

Corrosive change from Viral is a huge nerf in my experience and has hindered Saryn's late game potential, while it will in theory do much more Early / Mid game, Late game content is now awful with Corrosive.

Toxic lash is great now, that's good, Molt is fine as it is.

Miasma SEEMS alright for now.

Spore seems like it has recieved a flat out nerf, it appears like it needs line of sight, which doesn't even MAKE SENSE since ya know, it's a spore.. (Come on DE I thought you guys noticed this wasn't a good idea from the 'Viver crisis' that happened years ago, Line of Sight just doesn't seem to work and hampers the playing experience massively in a mostly negative fashion for abilities like this...)

Overall in my experience Saryn has recieved the nerf hammer, She still melts through low level content, but is now incredibly lackluster at higher tiered content due to the current Spore mechanics and how hard it is to get rolling when it just suddenly dissapears, Sure scaling spores SOUNDS great on paper, but the fact that it has to build up to that damage over time (which takes forever to even get to say 300 damage) hinders the ability big time, You'd be better off shooting the enemies with a gun at this point. straight up.

She's not fun to play in her current state, she feels clunky and if i'm being completely honest, unfinished, Pre nerf she seemed somewhat stable as a character and had that niche role to fill late game. Now? I don't think she'll honestly see much play if any at all outside of those few dedicated players, especially meta-wise with late game content, far better alternatives out there now, don't get me wrong by any means, when it goes off it GOES off, but as it is it seems inconsistant and hard to keep going.

What would I do to fix this issue? Remove spores LoS mechanics outright. that's what is holding Saryn back as far as I see it. It makes spores hard to keep up and running and constantly resetting, which is bad.

Edited by Latiac
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Very rarely/almost never played the mindless Molt/Spore spam build, so will leave comment on Spores to others. Testing in the simulacrum with the new Spores did seem very powerful against high level armor, and in combination with Miasma especially.

As a regular melee player, the changes to Molt are really strong, A+, and make the frame very fun to melee with now. The speed buff and immunity period on Molt are -very- useful, great changes. For people complaining about duration on the speed buff, it's not much shorter than Volt's and can be increased with duration mods. It's a very powerful skill now, providing on demand speed, aggro management, -and- healing if augmented with Regenerative Molt. Spammable as well. Would put it right up there with the better "2" skills in the game as changed.

The Toxic Lash changes are also good IMO, especially the longer duration and that it can be recast before running out. The toxin buff/power strength ratio seems about right. It's very powerful in practice (using melee) IME, but doesn't buff the team like other skills, so should be powerful.

Would I consider Saryn on par with the other top melee type frames now? Yes absolutely... maybe even a bit -more- powerful. But that's admittedly on limited testing. Will be running some stuff with her later and may edit the post accordingly.

The casting time on Miasma is slow, but that's understandable as it is -very- powerful now, maybe too powerful, and I foresee old Ember/Equinox/Banshee old past Saryn type complaints about mindless map/room clear due to it with certain builds. Remains to be seen.

If the intended result was to get the frame more active, using all its powers and continue the lean towards melee with it, mission accomplished. Going to work new "speedy tanky" melee Saryn into the melee rotation.

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7 minutes ago, Patzer said:

Solely with spores? abilities?

nvm, just never clocked my kill times. x)

Hehe, well, I activate Toxic Lash, put spore on 1 guy and fully charge my gas Prisma Angstrum. Now 8 Heavy Gunners are basically dead. Might use Glaive prime on next group (using explode build with power throw and quick return - same result). Rinse and repeat 🙂

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So let's get started:

Her kit feels very well balanced for elite onslaught:
Spore spread and damage in combination with toxic lash are good enough for solo play and weak enough to not disrupt team play (because more squad members kill enemies faster and stop spores from spreading).
This doesn't feel like an early cheese-warframe for new players, because getting her to do what she does in onslaught requires some serious modding and will be locked behind days of grinding or a lot of platinum in trade chat.

Infested: Very good
Corpus: Sortie levels of good (toxic lash is helpful)
Grineer: Perfect
Corrupted: Somewhere between the upper 3 feedbacks.^^

The infinite duration works just perfect with the current enemy spawn system, although a bit more enemy density would be appreciated in all tilesets (More things to kill which equals more fun, allows for more spore damage build up, prepares enemy factions for similar upgrades to other warframes).^^

Also, Molt speed buff feels great, it's very useful and the buff is short enough to not rival Volt-Speed.

At lower levels, her abilities clear out nothing because of the power and low amount of enemies, but at that lvl, people could just use their weapons. Saryn's new strength is high lvl missions with big amounts of enemies.

Overall, I give this rework a 10/10. Getting every warframe to respond that well to mods and to be weak enough in it's basic, unmodded state would be a crazy good change. It's really fun to play her and see all the damage numbers pop up. Fun frame is good frame.

Edited by Dark_Sp00n
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21 minutes ago, arm4geddon-117 said:

it looks like some users are reporting some weird spreading mechanics which involve line of sight , if it's the case it's really counterproductive , line of sight shouldn't affect spores even tho i can't say i have experienced that myself.

most likely people are going into missions with sub 280% range, probably about 190% range, and killing the infected, meaning their range is half what it actually is.

Edited by Cibyllae
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2 hours ago, DragonsRain said:

I hoped with the extra UI element for focus steve would have finally noticed the weird stacking of waybound nodes off screen, but sadly this was not the case.
like this

Shh... you've noticed the secret hint about The Sacrifice and it's 'shadow' school nodes...

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I posted on the update thread but w/e gonna copy it here too.

Quote

 

The Saryn rework feels like complete S#&$ to play. There is no flow and I'm not talking about Spores on Molt jank. 

Spreading Spores is now beyond clunky and it doesn't even work half the time. Half the time it spreads like the old better Spores when you would "pop" them via a Toxin attack. Either way the spreading/ exploding/ ramp up is a snooze fest. It doesn't have to be this amazingly 1 button room clear but holy hells this is a drag. Bring back Viral damage too. Every damn weapon already goes Corrosive so this is just a waste. No range mods now feels far worse than before. Pre update you could actually run no range on a melee Saryn and have decent Spore coverage. Now with the "new" changes it feels like S#&$.

Contagion Cloud doesn't use the frames energy color anymore. Bug? 

Molt... Can we get rid of the speed boost? It is annoying as hells in melee. Oh let me pop Molt to survive and now like me go melee this guyyyyyyyyyyyyyy 'Ohh #*!% why the hell am I over here and he isn't dead and still shooting at me'? #*!%ing hate Volt speed spammers enough. At Least you can backflip out of that S#&$.

Toxic Lash. Whelp I'm STILL going to need to run Rage/HA. Not that was a surprise to anyone.

Miasma. Not a clue what to say here. Never really used it as melee Saryn or needed too as it sucked without being full nuke. Now it's what ohh yay a Viral proc that I used to have and would rather have on Spores. 

 

All in all, this is simply not fun to play as Saryn right now. Congrats you killed the Spore to Molt spam but you also killed the rest of the fun Saryn offered.

 

 

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Spores are horrendous now, they do no damage, dont really spread, and their procs arent useful at all either. Best thing you can do is sit in simulacrum and wait for 30 mins until you get to significant numbers and call it strong.

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First off, let me just say that I love Saryn more than ever. Theoretically, ergo, in the Simulacrum, it's hitting all  the right spots. In practical application, I'm not so sure. My build is 235% range, 205% strength, 85% efficiency, 78% duration. It's my old build, no tweaking done yet. I might bump up the duration later. For weapons, it's the old trusty Gas Ignis Wraith. I've also tested with a Gas Arca Plasmor. Spores seem awfully unpredictable. They don't spread well, and require a ton of management to keep up. Moreover, ramp up seems a tad too slow outside the Simulacrum. I'm not complaining about the part of keeping them up, though. I like being active now. I'm using Molt more often now, but like someone said earlier, it does feel like a lizard shedding its tail. Toxic lash is a breeze on the Ignis, less so on the Plasmor. I like Miasma, but at the energy its costing me, its more of a panic button. Really, the only improvements I can suggest are faster ramp up and spores spreading more reliably.

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12 minutes ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Hey! AoE will spread Spores with Toxic Lash active 🙂

So to clarify, only the casting Saryn with Toxic Lash active can cause the spores to spread with AoE?

 

Saryn's own team is now the enemy I guess 😕

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1 hour ago, Koed said:

First of - I never liked the molt spore/turret playstyle. Found it to be extremely boring (but effective of course). And that is obviously the biggest change

well, that change is obviously the smallest one and makes little to no difference. Apart from focus farming / pre-made leveling groups there was no point casting spores on Molt. But I did see a lot of poor sods that either thought it to be the best or the only way to spread spores. They would literally stop amidst the enemies, cast Molt, spore it a few times then do it sometime later somewhere else.

1 hour ago, Koed said:

An entire room can easily be Viral procced for roughly 12 seconds - that range increase from 15 to 20 is a great buff!

Well, previously you could have half a survival map covered with viral procs without any effort on your part, just casually running around shooting stuff. And they would last for much longer than the measly 12 seconds. 

---

All in all: things worked out just as I expected - they botched the rework, which was obvious from their stated plans and can be seen in practice now that it's deployed. I'm not saying that Saryn got a nerf, hell no, they made her much more powerful damage wise. After some short testing I'd even say she feels out of control. But at the same time she is a complete unbalanced clunky mess now. They should have taken her tools, improved them here and there to make the them more useful and balanced as a whole, put them in a nice case. Instead they changed the tools altogether and since they didn't fit in the case anymore they put them in a potato sack where they are clanking against each other. 

Edited by DarthKadra
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