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[DE]Connor

Dev Workshop: Nezha Revisited

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I'm going to be real with you DE...Just have Pablo Rework frames, you can have others make them and stuff but just have Pablo do them. As an example Think of Ember (correct me if i'm wrong) which Pablo did not rework is now considered trash, when she was a lack luster 1 trick pony before. As compared to Nidus, very good and even balance by his own strength being to much for him at times, Sarin having the same kind of balance that her overall strength works as a dual edged sword, she is great when the enemies are greater, and weak when the enemies are weaker, Harrow is another example, as in he is a really really good solo frame with some great team synergy when needed. All i'm telling you is when i hear DE Pablo is reworking a frame i go "oh my how is it changed, i can't wait to see!" and when i see another person doing it i say "Oh no how much have i lost?" I think Nezha will be another frame that turns out good i wonder why?

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5 hours ago, Voltage said:

This change makes absolutely no sense and feels like forced synergy much like Atlas. Reducing the damage reduction from the Halo will be quite awful for Sortie rescue missions. This change does not open modding and/or Arcane avenues. Arcane Pulse will not see any real use as Guardian and Energize are already being used. While I understand more options are nice, Equilibrium will most definitely be worthless here. Health orbs are a niche that really only function for Nekros. Oberon and Well of Life Trinity cannot even use health orbs effectively.

If you want to achieve synergy between abilities, do not force it on the player. Atlas is a clunky mess because of this trend. I would rather see Halo have 100% damage reduction. Nezha is a fast caster, not a healer. He is also not a tank. Halo was already worse than Iron Skin, and now it is further lowered in effectiveness.

Oh god... Every revisted I see... every warframe rework: "Dont make a forced synergy"

Can you just stop ppl? Synergy is good and it is not forced. Nex time... "Revenant's 3+4 is forced synergy"!
"Hydroid's 3 and other abilities are forced synergy" Would you like to stay in a place like with an old 3?

 

Synergy is good for the abilities so warframe kit feels better. Any synergy is good so please dont call anything force synergy cuz many ppl said it and its lost its power.

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5 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

With 90% damage resistance, Nezha is still very capable of tanking

Yeah, no... Not when it matters. Against true heavy hitters our boi will still get wrecked. This makes his big bro Rhino even more meta for being impenetrable - with augments he can accumulate defensive power AND re-cast it with more ease than proposed "heat burst" on Nezha. 

Also, constant "being hit" animation with red flashes and false sense of danger is very annoying, misinforming and off-putting.

This tweak will make him even less popular after the initial novelty factor of rework cools down.

Honestly, each "revisited" rework for Zephyr, Atlas and even small touches on Vauban felt like one hit, two misses. I loved Zephyr in mobile defense and interceptions, now her tornadoes are bugged, her new second ability is useless and aiming for slam with bird dive is awkard and glitched as well. Atlas has identity problems, relies on forced synergy and looks like rocky turd with stone skin bits randomly attached, covering fashionframe swag. Vauban needs two/three useful grenades and a turret, not charging ability gimmick. 

Do we need Mesa nerf to wake up and see DE is on a VERY bad streak of making frames clunky for the sake of it? 

Most frames AND enemies would benefit from major buffs. Focusing on creating aggressive, relentless enemy units with good AI instead of resource pinatas we currently pop in mass numbers, would require work and dedication which I have not seen from DE in years. PoE got old super fast. It is an empty chessboard with pointlessly wandering pawns. Mediocre game attracts shallow players with small demands and small attention span. Is this the present and the future of Warframe? Forced, wacky synergies and awkward powers designed by community manager? You can do better DE.

 

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4 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

 

 

WARDING HALO

  • HUD now shows a custom counter, indicating how much damage absorption is left, instead of a simple numeric percentage

haloUI.PNG

  • Warding Halo now only blocks 90% of damage taken. Will still block status effects and other procs.
    • Why? When considering Nezha’s revamped kit, he is excellent at mitigating enemy damage - Firewalker and Divine Spears offer great area/crowd control, Blazing Chakram offers healing and self-sustain, and his outstanding movement can make the player a hard target to hit. In this context, Warding Halo’s 100% damage resistance was completely overshadowing his other options - why heal or CC when I never take any damage?
      With 90% damage resistance, Nezha is still very capable of tanking, but encouraged to rely on his other tools to avoid getting overwhelmed. Taking minimal health damage allows for synergy with Blazing Chakram’s health orbs, not to mention new modding avenues like Equilibrium, Health Conversion and various Arcanes. The change also allows us to improve survivability in other ways, such as the increased health pool, and major Warding Halo quality-of-life buffs listed below.
  • Damage absorption invulnerability phase now begins as soon as you cast the ability. Cast animation also sped up.

halo2.gif

  • Increased incoming damage multiplier during invulnerability. Damage absorption multiplier also now scales with power strength.
  • When the health of the Warding Halo runs out, it will do an AoE heat status effect and give you a short period of invulnerability.
    • Why? This gives the player precious time to react, helping survivability while controlling the enemies immediately around you. Your next Warding Halo can be recast during this window to ensure you’re always protected!

halo3.gif

(Brief aside: as a Nezha main, I was originally skeptical of the 90% damage resistance change, and I suspect many readers will be skeptical too. However, playing the rework myself quickly changed my mind. The various buffs really outweigh the negatives, making Nezha much more capable in a supporting crowd-controller role. If you doubt just how potent 90% damage resistance can be, try out Gara’s Splinter Storm at 130% or more power strength!)

 

 

How is this even a thing? So now it's only 90% damage resistance, but still not duration based? Still no way to properly reset while active? I understand you can recast during a small invulnerability period, but that's not the same thing. It's just a nerf. It's kinda funny too. So you change Blazing Chakram to give Health and Energy Orbs? Seriously? You decide to do that at the same time you nerf the one ability that benefited most from Health/Energy Conversion. 

Anyways, how can you even begin to compare to Gara's Splinter Storm? She has an infinite 90% damage resistance. She doesn't need worry about how much damage it can absorb, and she doesn't need to wait for a specific time to recast. Mesa has a duration based shield that gives her 95% damage resistance. 

You can't combine 90% damage reduction with damage absorption. It doesn't make any sense. If it's only 90%, why is it connected to a health pool? That only made sense when he was completely invincible. DE, if you're not inspired, please just wait. He's not gonna work as one of the weaker support/CC frames. I'm not even sure why that's a goal. It's like you're trying to make him weaker than other frames, and I don't understand the point. 

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9 minutes ago, fierycloak said:

It's not supposed to be better or even equal to Iron Skin that's Rhino's ability not anyone else's and Halo was never meant to replace it, 90% is plenty of damage reduction even on higher level missions, Nezha has been used as a tank by most players and this rework won't change that in any way, all the changes are good and will have a positive effect on the frame. 

90% is passable DR, it only works for a few K damage before stopping though. 

basically useless if you intend going past level 20 

6 minutes ago, Sannidor said:

Yeah, no... Not when it matters. Against true heavy hitters our boi will still get wrecked. This makes his big bro Rhino even more meta for being impenetrable - with augments he can accumulate defensive power AND re-cast it with more ease than proposed "heat burst" on Nezha. 

Also, constant "being hit" animation with red flashes and false sense of danger is very annoying, misinforming and off-putting.

This tweak will make him even less popular after the initial novelty factor of rework cools down.

Honestly, each "revisited" rework for Zephyr, Atlas and even small touches on Vauban felt like one hit, two misses. I loved Zephyr in mobile defense and interceptions, now her tornadoes are bugged, her new second ability is useless and aiming for slam with bird dive is awkard and glitched as well. Atlas has identity problems, relies on forced synergy and looks like rocky turd with stone skin bits randomly attached, covering fashionframe swag. Vauban needs two/three useful grenades and a turret, not charging ability gimmick. 

Do we need Mesa nerf to wake up and see DE is on a VERY bad streak of making frames clunky for the sake of it? 

Most frames AND enemies would benefit from major buffs. Focusing on creating aggressive, relentless enemy units with good AI instead of resource pinatas we currently pop in mass numbers, would require work and dedication which I have not seen from DE in years. PoE got old super fast. It is an empty chessboard with pointlessly wandering pawns. Mediocre game attracts shallow players with small demands and small attention span. Is this the present and the future of Warframe? Forced, wacky synergies and awkward powers designed by community manager? You can do better DE.

 

I honestly have to agree, it's not like the frames they've come out with in recent have fared much better than the ones that are reworked, and the two that come to mind will probably need 2 reworks before they get to a good state. 

 

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5 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

BLAZING CHAKRAM

  • Cast animation has been sped up, and no longer restricts movement.
  • Enemies hit by the disc are “marked” for a moddable duration, greatly increasing the damage they take from all sources. Marked enemies have a chance to drop energy orbs.
    • Why? Adds great team value to Nezha’s kit - increasing damage taken helps all allies, and energy orb drops enable frequent recasting.

chakram1.gif

  • Killing enemies while they are marked will now produce healing orbs, instead of the current healing pulse.
    • Why? The current radial heal is invisible and very small, usually only benefitting players in melee range - most players don’t even know it’s there! Health orbs make the result more visible, while introducing other mod synergies.
  • Increased the number of targets the disc will try to hit before recalling, and improved some cases of faulty lock-on targeting.
  • Added a charged throw, causing the Chakram to fly straight forwards and backwards, dealing extra damage to enemies in its path.
    • Why? For a consistent flight path unaffected by lock-on targeting, use the new charged throw. Great for hallways!

chakram2.gif

  • Teleporting will no longer cancel Fire Walker.

 

WARDING HALO

  • HUD now shows a custom counter, indicating how much damage absorption is left, instead of a simple numeric percentage

haloUI.PNG

  • Warding Halo now only blocks 90% of damage taken. Will still block status effects and other procs.
    • Why? When considering Nezha’s revamped kit, he is excellent at mitigating enemy damage - Firewalker and Divine Spears offer great area/crowd control, Blazing Chakram offers healing and self-sustain, and his outstanding movement can make the player a hard target to hit. In this context, Warding Halo’s 100% damage resistance was completely overshadowing his other options - why heal or CC when I never take any damage?
      With 90% damage resistance, Nezha is still very capable of tanking, but encouraged to rely on his other tools to avoid getting overwhelmed. Taking minimal health damage allows for synergy with Blazing Chakram’s health orbs, not to mention new modding avenues like Equilibrium, Health Conversion and various Arcanes. The change also allows us to improve survivability in other ways, such as the increased health pool, and major Warding Halo quality-of-life buffs listed below.
  • Damage absorption invulnerability phase now begins as soon as you cast the ability. Cast animation also sped up.

halo2.gif

  • Increased incoming damage multiplier during invulnerability. Damage absorption multiplier also now scales with power strength.
  • When the health of the Warding Halo runs out, it will do an AoE heat status effect and give you a short period of invulnerability.
    • Why? This gives the player precious time to react, helping survivability while controlling the enemies immediately around you. Your next Warding Halo can be recast during this window to ensure you’re always protected!

halo3.gif

(Brief aside: as a Nezha main, I was originally skeptical of the 90% damage resistance change, and I suspect many readers will be skeptical too. However, playing the rework myself quickly changed my mind. The various buffs really outweigh the negatives, making Nezha much more capable in a supporting crowd-controller role. If you doubt just how potent 90% damage resistance can be, try out Gara’s Splinter Storm at 130% or more power strength!)

 

DIVINE SPEARS

  • Sped up the casting/slamming animations, while removing the mandatory slam at the end of the Spears’ duration. (slam can still be triggered manually)
  • Hitting a speared enemy with Blazing Chakram produces a second Chakram, which fires at a nearby enemy.

 

Keep in mind that everything listed above is subject to change prior to release - with that said, we are interested in hearing your thoughts on what we have so far. We are aiming to have this rework released next week, along with the Deluxe skin bundle. Thanks for reading, and we hope you look forward to Nezha Deluxe!

 

Blazing Chackram: How much of a damage bonus? If it's not comparable to banshee's I still feel like blazing chackram should be converted into an exalted glaive type weapon. 
With his speed being what it is, I feel like the range on his charged throw should be significently increased to allow for much further teleportation. I'd say base 50m or until it hits something. Since you seem to be concerned about the speed of which it returns, perhaps even on charged throws, maybe make it to where holding down the button after it's been charged thrown will increase how far it will go, or something to that effect.

Also will the health orbs be standard health orbs or will they heal more than the usual one, or will each enemy drop more than one? if its a single health orb per enemy and it heals only 25 hp and the chakram hits 5 enemies, the ability would be near useless for healing. 

Warding Halo: If you're going to reduce the damage reduction from 100% to 90%, get rid of the damage soak up part of it and instead make it a flat 90% reduction that lasts for a duration.  I can't think of any DR ability below 100% that has such a huge caveat to it. Comparing it to any other DR ability is laughable, even with your multiplier to damage soaked up during the invulnerable phase. Standing in the middle of mobs actively shooting at you in order to ramp up that number is an ineffective and extremely dangerous strategy that requires expert timing. There's a reason why rhinos don't do that.
It gets you killed.

The base damage soak up for the ability has always been a problem, too. Post level 80, without the ability to recast while active, enemies were more than capable of one shotting him if he was using any of the useful builds. His increase in stats while having his abilities work they way they currently do will not do much for his survivability. 

Divine spears: Unless Blazing chakram acts as a kind of fissuring where each speared enemy hit by the first one causes another chckram to spawn, creating the possibilitiy of getting nearly all enemies speared to take more damage, Divine spears will need a buff. As it stands it's still a lesser Rhino Stomp. It either need stat buffs to range, duration and/or damage, or it needs extra affects like perhaps spearing any enemy that wanders into the field of spears while the ability is still counting down.

I have some questions too:

Since we're at a point now where literally any frame can be turned into a tank with arcanes and mods even at level 0, without the use of any warframe abilities, and can easily solo any content thru Sortie 3 with a decent melee weapon while using tank mods, how does this reworked frame (or any frame for that matter) out compete that strategy or compliment it to make it faster? is it enough to make a noticeable positive difference? 

How well does this new nezha fair against level 200s, 300s, or 500s in real mission types and not simulacrum? (how does it do with scaling content?)

How is it different or better in some ways than comparable frames? what niches can it fit? It's nezha so we know the niche is speed+ nuke+CC+some tank.
 

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So what do we have ? Mediocre tank(try to stand still for 10 sec in a sortie mission even now it's not Inaros or Rhino with armor recast), still good CC but to make it actually good you'd have to keep spamming his 4 to grab new enemies, heal that requires enemies and aiming plus it's a pickup drop, energy drops when you have operators and trinity's ev. Personally I used Nezha for his CC on 4th ability and his augment for warding halo. You can keep your whole team alive by not letting enemies hit anyone. My only issue was that it wasn't enough. Sorties burn through halos really quick and Eidolons break them with a single fart. 

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The changes sound really good on paper, Pablo did a good work on it. We'll have to wait and see next week (hopefully!) to test best buttframe ourselves.

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Internal synergies? How does Firewalker affect Warding Halo or Divine Spears? How does Warding Halo affect Divine Spears? From what I read, only Blazing Chakram gets a synergy with Divine Spears. Fire Walker not being canceled by teleporting to the Chakram doesn’t really matter when accurate teleporting is difficult if not impossible, especially if it will time out now anyway. What about the Reaping Chakram augment? Charging the Chakram makes it behave just like that augment. 

I can see potential for decent builds here, just no great ones... just like the current Nezha

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il y a 3 minutes, Dvvolf a dit :

So what do we have ? Mediocre tank(try to stand still for 10 sec in a sortie mission even now it's not Inaros or Rhino with armor recast), still good CC but to make it actually good you'd have to keep spamming his 4 to grab new enemies, heal that requires enemies and aiming plus it's a pickup drop, energy drops when you have operators and trinity's ev. Personally I used Nezha for his CC on 4th ability and his augment for warding halo. You can keep your whole team alive by not letting enemies hit anyone. My only issue was that it wasn't enough. Sorties burn through halos really quick and Eidolons break them with a single fart. 

What about using arcanes that works on damage now , like Grace , Aegis or Guardian for the Warding Halo 90%DR .. And from the dev workshop it has a small period of invulnerability between each cast..  There will be always people that complain. and it is not like this change is setted 100% sure

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I’m loving these changes! The positives do seem to outweigh the negatives. I can’t wait to try out the new Nezha! I just one teeny little problem... where is Vauban’s rework? Kind of feels like he got shafted. I won’t mind if nyx and wukong are up next to bat, but please DE!!! Give my little Engy some love!!! Don’t forget about him.

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11 minutes ago, CuteFoxyFox said:

Oh god... Every revisted I see... every warframe rework: "Dont make a forced synergy"

Can you just stop ppl? Synergy is good and it is not forced. Nex time... "Revenant's 3+4 is forced synergy"!
"Hydroid's 3 and other abilities are forced synergy" Would you like to stay in a place like with an old 3?

 

Synergy is good for the abilities so warframe kit feels better. Any synergy is good so please dont call anything force synergy cuz many ppl said it and its lost its power.

Can't wait for them to nerf wukong into a "support frame" and take away his invincibility gimmick for an invisibility gimmick and god knows what else, "why use any other abilities when you can just turn invincible" right?

 

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2 minutes ago, MunsuLight said:

What about using arcanes that works on damage now , like Grace , Aegis or Guardian for the Warding Halo 90%DR .. And from the dev workshop it has a small period of invulnerability between each cast..  There will be always people that complain. and it is not like this change is setted 100% sure

That's the problem. I don't really need it. I don't get hit since i'm moving so fast. What I want is an ability to keep my team alive. I'm not going to expect my team to always pick those arcanes when i play with them. This isn't going to work on lures or defense targets. It's just impractical.

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How long is the duration of Firewalker going to become? I worry about this as I like using Pyroclastic Flow which gave me an insane amount of damage with Nezha as my main way of dealing with enemies and I feel that changing the ability to a duration ability will nerf Pyroclastic Flow augment greatly. 

The reason I ask is even though it says 40 on the screenshot, I don't know if that's before or after Duration Mods have been factored in. 

Edited by KaijuKraid

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So now my bubbled pet/rescue target/other bubbles take damage, I can't heal my pet with my chakram so it's going to die much more often (as is the rescue target), and in no shields debuff situations I can die pretty quickly to things like multiple bombards along with my pet as I scramble to find those pesky health orbs that my pet's vac won't pick up because it's dead...Where do I sign up!?!?!  But in all seriousness, I play Nezha because I like(d) his kit more than Rhino's and enjoyed being able to have my team's pets and rescue targets not die when we got into a bad situation.   

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19 minutes ago, BL4CKN0ISE said:

How is this even a thing? So now it's only 90% damage resistance, but still not duration based? Still no way to properly reset while active? I understand you can recast during a small invulnerability period, but that's not the same thing. It's just a nerf. It's kinda funny too. So you change Blazing Chakram to give Health and Energy Orbs? Seriously? You decide to do that at the same time you nerf the one ability that benefited most from Health/Energy Conversion. 

pssstt have you read the pablo comment. Try playing gara with 130% str & feel the 90% dmg cut, pretty much you save for anything & i'm trying it at high level 90% dmg cut means you only take so small damage or so from bombard lul and with just 3k hp shield that should be save enough especially nezha is a trickster and you won't play nezha like rhino passive movement right ? consider the synergy of that shield with hunter adrenaline/rage..

 

but hey everyone have different opinion. You can mad or something after you try it, this is just a patch note and yeah. Hope you guys change your mind about being so negative after the real nezha rework applied haha. Still can't wait to try the warding halo rework atm

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33 minutes ago, Leoffta said:
  • Nezha Rework
  • No Vauban Rework

Ok...

Been ringing the hammer for a Vauban rework for awhile, but in their defense Nezha needed this, and it looks really good to me.

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My biggest complain about Nezha is the fact its really bad to control him. If I'm moving in one direction and want to turn back or anywhere else he will keep skating on the floor, taking quite a while for him to lose momentum and begin moving in the desired direction.

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45 minutes ago, CuteFoxyFox said:

We can keep him as a oficial TrapFrame as well just suggesting 😛 )

I highly encourage that you edit this out

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Solid rework, cant wait to try this with new skin! No more spam 4 or boring shield mechanics!
Fingers crossed for a Vauban rework with this level of detail and quality!

Edited by __SKULL__
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