Wukong Revisit

[Agayek]

Honestly, you don't even need Defy against infested 99% of the time.  If you just pull your stick out and mash E, they'll all be murdered long before they get into range of hitting you, rendering your armor or lack thereof irrelevant.

The only real exception to this is the infested moas and (especially) Ancients, as they can knock you down, but that's why God invented Handspring and put it in the game.

[NaoEthelia]

15 hours ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

I guess that means you can rely on defy in that circumstance.

If the condition of fighting infested puts you at such a disadvantage, perhaps you should use another frame.

4 hours ago, Phoenix42Lord42 said:

I agree 2000000% with this. If you want armour while also playing against infested, just hop in the mission with Rhino and you're good

This is such an archaic design philosophy to begin with and should be left behind. Nobody likes being disadvantageous towards a certain faction for no real reason. There's no reason Wukong should remain disadvantageous in a game where the vast majority of well-designed frames (like Rhino) are faction agnostic.

Edited June 25, 2019 by NaoEthelia

[98tyman]

 

Reasons for this thread is because I personally wasn't very happy with Wukong’s latest rework. The rework hasn't really fixed any of my biggest problems such him still being useless in squads and his abilities still don’t synergize with each other. Also i just feel like his  passive still sucks it’s only slightly better than his original in my personal opinion. So i decided to type out what I would’ve done if I designed the rework.

 

For the changes to his passive I took some inspiration from Inaros where his passive is in two parts. His primary passive will synergize with his kit while the secondary passive will give allow him to self-res. 

 

Passive: Melee range is increased based off of melee combo multiplier, Increased melee counter duration. whenever he takes fatal damage, Wukong will become invulnerable for 2 seconds, restore 50% health. This effect will only activate 3 times before it goes on cool down for 5 minutes.

 

The first thing I’ll do is rework his iron jab skill to not only do more damage but to also allow for more customization. 

 

1. Iron jab 

• • Iron Jab’s base stats will be based off the Iron Staff and will be affected by any mod that affect his exalted weapon. If your wondering this includes the crit chance, crit damage, damage, status, and types of damage including elements.

  • Iron Jab will increase the combo counter by 1 when it hits an enemy and will have unlimited punch though vs. enemies. Also enemies within 1.25 / 1.5 / 1.75 / 2 meters of Iron Jab's point of impact will suffer an impact proc and be stunned. Aoe is affected by his passive. 

  • Iron Jab will have a damage and range multiplier that are affected by power strength and range respectively.

  • I’ll add the Iron Vault augment’s effects to the ability mainly because it seems like would be a fun little way to get around and, hopefully will be something like sticky/rocket jumping in tf2. Something is can be hard to learn but is very useful to get around.

  • Also add that a slam attack performed after launching into the air will deal bonus damage based off armor or maybe make it so Wukong will slam into an enemy after launching dealing damage based off his armor and health. Maybe both would be more useful.

  • Iron Jab will also benefit from his passive allowing its range and width increase with the combo multiplier

  • Iron Jab can be used in the air. 

.

Iron Jab

Expand the iron staff to ether launch yourself through air or deal heavy damage to conga line of foes.

 

25 energy

 

Strength:1.25x / 1.50x / 1.75x/ 2x

Duration:N/A

Range:1.25x / 1.50x / 1.75x/ 2x (staff range)

Misc:1.25 / 1.5 / 1.75 / 2 m (impact radius)

Bonus slam damage based off armor and/or health

Unlimited punch though vs. enemies

 

Augment idea

Suspending wave: Wukong will perform a slam attack for an energy cost when the ability button (default 1) is held, suspending nearby enemies in the air. Basically it's the Celestial Stomp mod just without a clone. Thought it was too useful of an argument to just scrap.

 

The idea behind reworking this ability is to turn it into a supportive skill of some sort focusing on confusing enemies and healing allies.

 

2. Cloud walker

• • Cloud Walker will heal himself and allies within the cloud by 2%/ 3%/ 4%/ 5% per second. Scales with power strength

  • Increase base range to 8/ 10/ 12/ 14 meters

  • Increase the base duration to 8/ 16/ 24/ 32 seconds and add a small amount of energy drain for each meter traveled, I'll say 2 energy per meter would work pretty well seeing how i forget the base energy cost of the old version. Both states can be altered with power duration and efficiency respectively.   

  • Enemies that are in the cloud will have their vision darkened and hearing dulled by 48% or, at least in a similar way to the Rakta Dark Dagger.

  • Allies in a cloud will be invisible to all enemies outside plus their weapons have a  25%/ 50%/ 75%/100% chance to not be heard.

  • Wukong can use Iron Jab while us in cloud he will extend a column sized staff down performing a slam wherever your crosshairs are pointing to. This will deal an additional 4x damage added to your current damage multiplier to enemies in a 10 meter aoe knocking enemies back or, if the attacks lands on an enemy it will instantly kill them. Can only be used in the cloud.

  • Wukong can also spend 5 extra energy during Cloud Walker to summon a mist clone to perform a finisher on an enemy by pressing the melee button (default E) on a stunned enemy. If said enemy is killed Wukong and any warframe in the mist will gain 25 energy. This action can be performed on enemies outside of the cloud.

  • Extend the status cleansing to allies in the mist as well because this version is meant to function as a support skill.

  • You can choose to keep Cloud Walker’s ability to not trigger energy defenses like Sensor Bars and Laser Barriers.

 

Cloud Walker

 

25 energy per cast and 2 energy per meter traveled

 

Evaporate into a cloud of mist and float through the battlefield, dazing enemies and dulling their senses while supporting allies invelupt in the mist, or summon a clone to finish off high priority targets.

 

Strength:2%/ 3%/ 4%/ 5% (health / second)

Duration: 8s/ 16s/ 24s/ 32s (cloud duration)

Range: 8/ 10/ 12/ 14 meters (mist radius)

Misc:100% (status cleanse on cast)

4/ 6/ 8/ 10 meters (stun radius)

3 seconds (stun duration)

5 energy (Mist clone energy cost)

Allies weapons have a 25%/ 50%/ 75%/100% chance to not be heard

 

Augment

Celestial Twin: Replaces cloud walker with a mist clone of Wukong that will attack at range when you pull out a blade and close in for a melee strack when you take shots. Also share a 3%/ 6%/ 9%/12% life steal link. This celestial twin augment will mostly function in the same way that the current version does with a few changes.

• Both Wukongs will share a melee combo counter.

• The Wukong clone can be ordered to revive allies by placing your crosshairs over them and pressing the ability button (default 2).

• The clone will randomly use your Iron Jab for no energy cost to you. 

• will also use the Suspending wave augment assuming you have it equipped and cast it first.

• By life steal link i mean that when you deal damage it will heal the clone and vice versa. It works the same as pack leader im just not sure if everyone knows or remembers the mod.

• Range mods increases the distance the clone can go before it is forced back to Wukong’s side

 

I don't really have much to change with defy. While I would like the old defy back I understand why it was changed. so I’m mainly gonna focus on making the new version better

 

3. Defy

• • Make Cosmic Armour, Heavenly Cloak, Monkey Luck, Primal Forces, and Sly Alchemy as buff that are activated after using defy. Also make Monkey Luck, Primal Forces, and Sly Alchemy team buffs.

  • Increase bonus armor cap to at least 2000 and make it so the higher the armor gained, the likelihood of getting Cosmic Armour and Heavenly Cloak is increased.

  • Using defy while the Celestial Twin augment is active will allow wukong to get a different second buff

 

Defy

 

50 energy

 

Wukong becomes invulnerable and defy enemies to attack. All damage is captured, stored, and dealt back in a single furious strike of Wukong's staff. Wukong is granted bonus Armor relative to the damage captured and will use one of his Five Levels of Immortality.

 

Strength:4 / 5 / 6 / 7.5 x (damage multiplier)

0.8 / 1 / 1.2 / 1.5 x (armor multiplier)

Duration:2 s (invulnerability duration)

15 / 18 / 20 / 25 s (armor duration/Five Levels of Immortality)

Range:7 / 8 / 10 / 12 m (staff swing radius)

Misc:100% (status cleanse on swing)

1,500 (armor bonus cap)

100% chance for random buff (Five Levels of Immortality)

 

Augment 

Everlasting Nervana: killing an enemy with defy will increase the duration by 1/ 2/ 3/ 4 seconds and Recasting the ability will not reset your current buff. 

 

Thankfully I think that DE did a good job in creating the new Primal Fury but there are still a few things ill change.

 

4. Primal Fury

   • Energy drain per second can be lowered by both power efficiency and channel efficiency

   • While primal fury is active all abilities initial energy costs are lowered by 50% except for Iron Jab which is lowered by 100%.

   • Iron Jab and Cloud Walker will have a 25% faster casting speed and Defy will deal an extra 25% damage.

   • Power range mods will also increase the range of the Iron staff

 

Primal Fury

 

10 energy Energy per cast and 5 energy per second

 

Summon the Iron Staff and unleash fury.

 

Strength:100 / 125 / 200 / 250 (damage)

Duration:N/A

Range: based of moded Iron Staff 

Misc: -50% energy cast cost (Cloud Walker/Defy)

-100 energy cast cost (Iron Staff)

+25% casting speed (Cloud Walker/Iron staff)

+25% damage (Defy)

 

Augment

No change necessary 

 

I'll like to have a discussion about changes made to Wukong's kit as well as your ideas in this thread.

[Xzorn]

I'm more sad that 1500 is supposed to be "Durable".

I wonder if DE remembers they made a melee frame just recently that has 97% damage reduction before Adaptation.

At any rate, Wukong has always been weak against Ancient Disruptors. Even with old Defy when he was immortal they could kill him.

It's not really an issue with Wukong though. It's related to an attempted Hysteria nerf from a while back when they made Energy Drain work through Immortal. As a result the Energy Drain ignores all damage resistances and mitigation while continuing to scale with level. Eventually they just one-shot your energy pool. It's just about required to use some form of CC if not just Radiation status to deal with Infested past lvl 200 for any type of melee frame.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

On 2019-06-23 at 2:53 PM, DeMonkey said:

*Laughs in 15 forma*

I'd have gone a bit deeper but I'm waiting to see if he's next prime or not. It's probably atlas but you never know. 

[ArendilHD]

as in topic wukong dont knaw how to use fulmin.

he use it as rifle sho shot from far range but he is using it in basic (shotgun mode) so he cant reach enemies. 

and than he is trying to reload it xd 
suggestion:

make fulmin taged as shotgun for wukong clon or set basic mode for him as rifle rapidfire mode

 

[Xepthrichros]

At first I wanted a long duration Cloud Walker, but now I use it as an alternative to bullet jumping and it is FUN.

Cloud Walk, melee slam, slide attack, Cloud Walk, Finisher, Slide attack, Cloud Walk, Slam, Cloud Walk, Finisher, Finisher, Cloud Walk.

And without realizing, I've outpaced the entire team and am waiting at extraction for them. 

[Birdframe_Prime]

50 minutes ago, Xepthrichros said:

And without realizing, I've outpaced the entire team and am waiting at extraction for them. 

I usually play a fun little build of Jet Stream Zephyr, most consistently fast progress through a map I've found. And maybe it's because I'm used to taking routes that other frames can't, or don't, over the top of obstacles and around corners in the air, that the new Cloudwalker just... clicked with me.

While doing my missions after the re-build, I found myself using it exactly the same way I used Zephyr's low gravity to navigate, and easily outstripped a Volt spamming away at his Speed because I was just going from A to B more efficiently than he could while running. In a race where that player knew where he was going? Probably would have lost. But in regular play where nobody knows precisely where the next tile will be? Definitely faster.

[TheGodofWiFi]

2 hours ago, Xepthrichros said:

At first I wanted a long duration Cloud Walker, but now I use it as an alternative to bullet jumping and it is FUN.

Cloud Walk, melee slam, slide attack, Cloud Walk, Finisher, Slide attack, Cloud Walk, Slam, Cloud Walk, Finisher, Finisher, Cloud Walk.

And without realizing, I've outpaced the entire team and am waiting at extraction for them. 

Or you could just have a long duration and sail to the end without having to do all that. Besides, that still isn't a cause for the duration not to be buffed, since you could repeat that pattern either way.

Edited June 25, 2019 by TheGodofWiFi

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

So the famous wukong rework is here...and i can't wait to get my hands on it as a console pleb 

But i can't feel like it's complete...at least in my opinion 

The thing about his passive is...i like the buffs and i like how it's very close to the lore but it lacks the usability of other new passives...like baruuk's, nidus', hildryn's and even wisp's passive with how consistent and rich it is even though it's simple

So here's my take on it,  i'm 99% certain that DE doesn't care anymore about changing anything about wukong and they think he's perfect, but i can try i guess...for the 1%

5 levels of immortality: wukong's learned different techniques to escape and cheat death, when wukong takes fatal damage he becomes invulnerable for 2 seconds and can borrow health from his passive health reserve bar...he can only borrow 50% of it's health point though

The health reserve bar gets charged with 5 different ways:

1.Passively gain 3 health points/ second 

2.Percentage of Damage that celestial clone takes gets added to the health reserve bar

3.moving while in cloud walker also regenerates health reserve points

4.50% of damage taken from defy gets added to the bar 

5.each hit with primal fury adds 1 health point to the health reserve bar 

 

in my opinion having an old defy that i can work for and get rewarded in exchange is 10x better than to set it and forget it or removing the ability completely 

 

Well i guess too late for that now...it's not like our rework ideas gets any attention from the devs 😞

 

[iLightning13]

That's just straight immortality. It's even more busted than Nidus' passive with the numbers you're using. Immortality is boring.

[Birdframe_Prime]

36 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Or you could just have a long duration and sail to the end without having to do all that. Besides, that still isn't a cause for the duration not to be buffed, since you could repeat that pattern either way.

The thing is that there is a reason not to buff the Duration, which is the addition of the healing, and the fact that it's per distance travelled.

Meanwhile, the fact that you say there's no reason not to buff the Duration doesn't mean there is a reason to buff the Duration. Your expectations of it, your opinions of it, may be that you believe it should be buffed, but that isn't a reason to do it.

Aside from your opinions, there isn't a reason to buff the duration, it functions absolutely fine as-is, better than fine, actually. It does an amazing job of keeping Wukong alive and for fast traversal. I've tested and it even functions fine for the Augment as long as the team is aware of what you're doing and isn't immediately busting out of the invisibility by attacking things, a quick buzz of your team and they're all invisible for over 25 seconds with the Duration I had on, perfect for sprint-runs through for Captures or Assassination missions.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

10 minutes ago, iLightning13 said:

That's just straight immortality. It's even more busted than Nidus' passive with the numbers you're using. Immortality is boring.

Ummm but the health reserve bar is only capped at wukong's max health...and can only get 50% from it

 

[(XBOX)An Angry Mod]

You dare question the mighty, and all powerful Pablo? Disgrace good sir, disgrace.

[Lazarow]

The title says it all DE will ignore this thread.

I like how it is now I dont like having theoretical infinite charges of immortality, your passive just seems like a full ability rather than a passive. Here is the problem 3 health/s at rank 30 without health mods it would take 150 seconds for full health but since we looking at half then 75, then you have a clone that takes damage cause of the ai while you can freely parkour all over the screen, cloud walker and add the 3/s from the first thing that shortens it even further, 50% of damage from defy is more than enough to refresh the ability, 1 health per hit with a stick with high range is also too easy to restore. Its fully broken and too overpowered even if it has to restore all health is still too much overpowered, if you want to be immortal get Inaros or oberon with phoenix renewal if you like the concept of refreshable ability

Edited June 25, 2019 by AwkwardLazarow

[TheGodofWiFi]

54 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

The thing is that there is a reason not to buff the Duration, which is the addition of the healing, and the fact that it's per distance travelled.

That still doesn't seem like a good reason to me, for a few of reasons;

1. You're already fully healed within a few metres if you have decent power strength (which you should have since there is zero point in building for much else with the new Wukong).
2. The healing gimmick should not have been part of Cloud Walker in the first place and should have been part of Defy.
3. Other frames have healing abilities that are similar or straight up more effective than Cloud Walker and do not have such heavy drawbacks.

What would buffing the duration really do, honestly? Would it break the game? Or would it simply just allow you to have more fun that doesn't interfere with anyones gameplay but your own. All of this "Oh people will just use to go AFK" comebacks make little sense, since there are plenty of AFK frames out there that are more effective and in some cases do not have a duration attached to the AFK ability, such is the case with Oberon, Inaros and Limbo.

The healing mechanic feels like it was put there to justify the heavy nerf and it still doesn't work. The "Oh well you could basically heal yourself and be unkillable for forty seconds, which is OP", I'll again point to some of the top tier tank/survival frames who literally can stay alive indefinitely and have basically infinite healing duration (as long as they keep getting attacked in the case of Oberon).

54 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Meanwhile, the fact that you say there's no reason not to buff the Duration doesn't mean there is a reason to buff the Duration. Your expectations of it, your opinions of it, may be that you believe it should be buffed, but that isn't a reason to do it.

Actually not having a good reason not to buff it, is a valid reason to buff it. My reasons for wanting the duration buffed back up to its original, is because it never needed a nerf in the first place, it wouldn't break the game in any significant way that another frame hasn't already done (better) and because it would allow us to have more fun, which is what we're supposed to be playing video games for.

There was no reason to nerf it and that in itself is a reason to put the duration back up. Thats exactly what happened when Universal Vacuum for Sentinels was first introduced; DE nerfed the range for no reason and people subsequently asked them to put it back up. On a side note; it honestly baffles me how some people in this community will defend literally any change good or bad, since there were a few who said the Vacuum needed to be nerfed because it was "too easy" to pick things up otherwise. Kind of like how people are doing with Cloud Walker.

No one else is providing a good enough reason beyond their opinion of it being "OP" in some unspecific way. It wasn't OP before somehow, but now it suddenly is. Also, it would match with Wukong's lore to be able to be in the Cloud for longer, since in his mythology he used to travel a lot.

54 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Aside from your opinions, there isn't a reason to buff the duration

There is; because it would be more fun, it didn't need the nerf and because there is simply no good reason to not buff it. It would not negatively affect anyone at all if the duration was buffed.

54 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

it functions absolutely fine as-is, better than fine, actually.

I never said the ability in itself was bad, it's just not as fun as it could be though. With a longer duration it would allow to have more time and subsequently more fun/enjoyment in the flying aspect of it. Is there really any reason to NOT have fun? You also wouldn't have to spam it every five seconds, which is just unecessary.

54 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

I've tested and it even functions fine for the Augment as long as the team is aware of what you're doing and isn't immediately busting out of the invisibility by attacking things

I.e; Useless.

The team is never, not going to be attacking things. There is a reason why the augment has got so much flak and has been passed over for far better options for group invisibility even while attacking, like Octavia. There simply is no competition between the two. With dedicated squads of friends, it's different matter entirely, but then that argument can used for anything in the game.

Edited June 25, 2019 by TheGodofWiFi

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Ummm but the health reserve bar is only capped at wukong's max health...and can only get 50% from it

 

But you would have infinite uses given how extremely easy it would be to maintain.

You get gibbed. Oh crap! "pops Clouadwalker and runs 25m (in my case)" and full health aswell as reserve. Or if it is dense with enemies, you pop defy and you're back to full reserve in a second or two.

edit: The ony part of the 5 ways to regain the reserve health is the #1 option because it would take a good while refreshing the 50% of the reserve. Effectively giving it a cooldown window. Though it could be based on a percentage instead. 0.5% per second which would result in a 100sec CD per stage, putting it fairly inline with Phoenix Renewal. And if percent based it wouldnt matter how big your HP pool is.

Edited June 25, 2019 by SneakyErvin

[iLightning13]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Ummm but the health reserve bar is only capped at wukong's max health...and can only get 50% from it

 

And the health reserve bar would max out at an absurdly high speed, giving you functional immortaility. Especially if you were on a high-level endurance run and turned on Defy. You can just yeet yourself into a crowd, turn on defy and instantly gain all your reserve back.

[Birdframe_Prime]

25 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

There is; because it would be more fun, it didn't need the nerf and because there is simply no good reason to not buff it

Throw all the opinions you like at it, they're still only opinions.

'Fun' is completely subjective, because I have fun with it as it is, and think that increasing the Duration would have no purpose towards that.

Your opinions are not backed up by any real reasoning or argued debate, they're just opinions and worth only opinions, thus are countered automatically by anyone with an opposing opinion.

The difference being that neither of us is the one that does the work, or sets that balance. When trying to convince an outside force to move, to act, you must have enough reasoning behind you to cause that action.

Right now you don't have that. Your 'I think it needs this' argument is not even overcoming the basic 'well, I don't think it needs that' counter-argument.

[TheGodofWiFi]

25 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Fun' is completely subjective, because I have fun with it as it is, and think that increasing the Duration would have no purpose towards that.

So you're saying that you wouldn't have more fun, if you had more time to use the ability? You wouldn't find it easier to take time to place yourself in different parts of the battlefield?

Or are you saying "I don't see any reason for it to be buffed, so I'm going to try and deny others that do want it buffed, despite it not affecting me either way?"

25 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Your opinions are not backed up by any real reasoning or argued debate, they're just opinions and worth only opinions, thus are countered automatically by anyone with an opposing opinion.

Incorrect. If this were true then there are many a rework/nerf/buff that would not have happened at all, like the Universal Vacuum nerf, the Greedy Mag nerf and others. It was the opinion that got some things nerfed and buffed. That is how it has always been. So this line of logic does not work.

25 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

The difference being that neither of us is the one that does the work, or sets that balance. When trying to convince an outside force to move, to act, you must have enough reasoning behind you to cause that action.

And my simply reason is; why not? If you can make a positive change, why not do it?

It would not negatively affect you or anyone to have the duration buffed. You're fighting against it, purely because you don't see a need for it despite it not affecting you at all, which honestly makes you seem pretty selfish.

25 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Your 'I think it needs this' argument is not even overcoming the basic 'well, I don't think it needs that' counter-argument.

It does, because I'm basing my reasoning on the fact that there it would add for more fun during combat as well as general gameplay. It would allow you more time to position yourself, scout the battlefield and just have more fun in the flying mode and other frames with similar powers do nt have such heavy drawbacks. You however are saying you don't think it should be nerfed purely because you're already satisfied, even though this proposed change would not affect you negatviely. That is not a counter-argument both in video-games and in real life scenarios.

Also I'll point once again to the Universal Vacuum argument because that best encapsulates how your reasoning does not work. DE nerfed the vacuum range for no reason at all. Now like you say there was no technical reason why it needed to be buffed, since you could still pick up items, you'd just have to go closer. But guess what, that change got reversed and the full range avaliable once again. Why; because people wanted it and there was no good reason not to buff it back up other than some people calling it "lazy". So "I think that was unecessary" arguments do actually have an affect.

This change would honestly not negatively affect your gameplay at all. So why are you even bothering to argue against it? Simply because you like to disagree with people?

Edited June 25, 2019 by TheGodofWiFi

[Birdframe_Prime]

15 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

So you're saying that you wouldn't have more fun, if you had more time to use the ability? You wouldn't find it easier to take time to place yourself in different parts of the battlefield?

Yes, I am saying it wouldn't be any more fun to me to have more time in the ability. I have fun with the short ability and have not so far as my gameplay has gone, wanted or needed more time in the ability.

16 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

the Universal Vacuum nerf, the Greedy Mag nerf

The Universal Vacuum... nerf? What universal vacuum nerf? We got a slightly reduced range and in return can use any sentinel and even now pets to get its effects. That's not a nerf, that's an entire game buff. Not to mention we even got a tiny universal vacuum on the frames themselves so that we don't have to physically touch every single piece of loot, and can pick it up when it's clipped inside walls and boxes.

And Greedy Mag was axed because it literally created exploitative content, that's not an opinion, that's the stated reason from DE.

 

18 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

And my simply reason is; why not? If you can make a positive change, why not do it?

Yes, and my simple reason is 'why?', I don't think it's a positive change, and I also have a reason for why it wouldn't be changed. Even if you don't agree that the healing should be on that ability, DE put it on that ability and that's the reason it wouldn't likely change.

Direct counter opinion, backed up with a functional reason.

20 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

other frames with similar powers don't have such heavy drawbacks

No, you're right, other frames with similar powers have worse drawbacks.

Titania has dedicated energy drain, cannot interact with the world without ending the ability and is locked into Ability Weapons instead of her regular weapons for the duration.

Hildryn hovers slowly on a dedicated Drain ability that doesn't even let her cross pits, while her only means of attack is her 1 ability.

Zephyr is uncontrollable anywhere that isn't the Open Worlds or a massive open tile in the tile sets (95% of the game approximately).

Excal and Atlas are limited in direction or auto-target to enemies.

Ash can only teleport to something with a health bar, Loki to an enemy location.

Nova can build for long range and teleport to a single location in direct line of sight for a greater energy cost and with no options to turn and reposition without recasting.

Valkyr's animation is slow and clunky, and is only useful indoors or near vertical objects to pull towards.

Wukong's 2 is literally the second best movement function in game right now for the energy cost and the effects it has, second only to the Operator Void Dash because that's on a recharging energy source, has multiple upgradeable effects and even Arcanes that trigger off it.

You think that only having a 3-4 second duration is actually any kind of drawback on an ability this mobile and this easy to use? That on its own is simply laughable.

30 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

This change would honestly not negatively affect your gameplay at all. So why are you even bothering to argue against it? Simply because you like to disagree with people?

Actually I just like disagreeing with people who think that their opinion that DE did something wrong is enough for DE to change it.

DE created an amazing new iteration on Cloud Walker. It now heals, and can travel further in 4 seconds than the old one could in 15-20, it no longer triggers alarms and you can use melee ground slams and even melee finishers right out of it.

As a result of the massive buff it's been given, it only lasts long enough for those things and those things only. I wouldn't want to be in it any longer, because I want to get back to playing. It's why I've been consistently vocal about improving other mobility options, exactly like the ones I listed above, to make them all something as good as Cloud Walker turned out to be.

I said it to you before; I don't make the balance. DE does. And if you want to change it, you'll have to come up with a better reason than 'because I want it'.

I enjoy this ability, it's plenty strong, and it's definitely mobile enough as it is, there isn't a reason to make it stronger other than your own opinion that it shouldn't have been changed the way it has.

[DeMonkey]

13 hours ago, Agayek said:

Damn, and here I'd thought I'd gone a bit overboard with 8.  I could totally see 15 though with enough experimenting; I would've been 6 if I'd settled on the final build beforehand.

Speaking of, what actually is your build for Nukong?  I'm endlessly curious.

 

I'm working on like, 4 builds at once haha. Last one I used however was this, very similar.

Spoiler

It's not complete, I need to add another...3 forma? One for Aura, one for Exilus for the Motus double jump mod (really really good for melee imo, as it allows for really easy slam attacks) and the final one for Primal Rage so that I have the points to eventually max everything.

Spoiler

And that's my Staff. I also have 3 Glad mods on my normal melee weapon.

[Sunai_Moonswing]

He has this problem with every charged weapon and any alt fire weapon

[vFlitz]

31 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

And that's my Staff. I also have 3 Glad mods on my normal melee weapon.

I really see no reason not to put CO on it. It's an enormous damage increase.

I also find viral more effective, as in the level range that Wukong is effective in, you don't ever need more than a few hits at most, which isn't exactly enough for corrosive procs to do a lot of work.

[DeMonkey]

7 minutes ago, vFlitz said:

I really see no reason not to put CO on it. It's an enormous damage increase.

I also find viral more effective, as in the level range that Wukong is effective in, you don't ever need more than a few hits at most, which isn't exactly enough for corrosive procs to do a lot of work.

I'm not building for procs at all. If an enemy takes long enough to die that I manage to proc them a few times then I took too long to kill them.