Soooo the New Player Experience just completely negates The Second Dream

[TARINunit9]

1 minute ago, (PS4)DARK_WIZARD999 said:

I have another question, why do the warframes bow at the end and then transfer out? Salute to chateau autisté?

DE likes to act like Tenno in trailers are actually polite people, rather than the rowdy crusading mercenaries that the players very clearly are

2 minutes ago, (PS4)DARK_WIZARD999 said:

It almost reminded me more of Dark Sector.

Glad I'm not the only person who caught that. Just compare Lotus's first line, with the first line of this old thing

[dogbus]

The one problem I have with the trailer is that the girl is initially shown fully submerged in what appears to be very deep waters, meanwhile, the Grineer tromp across it ankle/waist deep. Of course, that very scene is also very similar to what you see when you fail the mission during TWW in the cave system. 
 

Spoiler

 

 

[XaoGarrent]

The problem with this theory is that upon choosing your frame you haven't even created your Tenno yet, and it's incredibly unlikely- even if they let you do so- that there would be any way to have it make any sense without completely and totally rewriting, and thus recreating, the Second Dream from scratch. If that kid is supposed to be your Tenno, it's going to require an absolutely massive retcon that would leave a sour taste in everyone's mouth and require a not-insignificant amount of dev time.

More likely this kid *is* a Tenno or something related to them, but one that stopped fighting long ago, and is using their void abilities to bring your Tenno out of stasis. The reason this is notable is that without the context of the second dream, not only does the player have no clue where the girl's powers come from, but they don't even have a frame of reference to know that the Warframe is anything other than a demi-god like automaton built and trained for battle.

If I was COMPLETELY new to the game, I think what I actually would have taken away from this trailer is that there's a long war, a bunch of Jedi like powers going around and the girl is part of some kind of religious sect that worships a machine god or something akin to that. There's a loooooot of context you don't have yet that's needed to positively connect the dots.

[Axcelian]

Bro, new players have no way of knowing that the girl is a tenno from the trailer. For all they know, that girl is the woman speaking in the background and that the tenno are those statues laying in the ground.

The trailer is actually genius, because us who have completed TSD quest can confirm that the girl is A tenno cos she has somatic marking and can travel thru the void. BUT, we still cannot confirm if she is our tenno, because all she does if leave.

The logical thing for DE to do is to make that girl an agent(a kind of tenno initator)sent by the lotus to place the other tenno into the second dream state (remember when you were new and thought your character was the warframes? That's the second dream state) maybe that girl was woken up from hibernation on lua early, discovered she was human instead of a warframe early, and was prepared to wake all other tenno by spacemom

[Eis_Katze]

I quite liked the trailer, although I want to know what happened to the kubrow.

As for the mysterious girl, if she is a tenno (which is highly likely) then a new player isn't going to know who/how they connect to the frames, there isn't really a direct connection in the trailer that the person is the player, nor that the person is even linked to anything other than someone who has respect for these clearly old statues that they seem to find protection in,almost to a deity level.
Even as a vet viewing the trailer, while we can easily say there's a direct connection that the person is us, the player, there is also the fact that nothing really directly says the person is us, just that they have somatic markings which signifies them as a tenno. Even then, looking away from the somatic markings, they don't have the prominent void eyes, and until the in-game review of 'who we are', lore-wise even the tenno kids didn't know what they were.

I do want the lotus's used as a decoration though XD Would be nice to have a lore fragment of them, other than the obvious reference to The Lotus being the leader of tenno. ... actually lore-wise, everyone feared the frames, so its not like any culture should honor them unless it's out of fear. Kinda wish we had more cinematics about how the warframes are emotionless killers no one can stop and how they are only known for their mercilessness violence and strange 'magic' powers. From a outside perspective, it would be nice to be given this idea that we do everything with the greater good in mind, that we are righteous, but with this constant conflict of others viewing us as more a 'chaotic lawful' ordeal, really rope in that idea that maybe, just maybe, we're not what we think, that we should sometimes question what order is given to us instead of being the mindless drones we at like.

As for people who think the trailer spoils who/what warframes are, any mission you play with someone who's done second dream, you're more than likely going to be spoiled of operators instantly anyway, at least the trailer isn't blunt about it, more of a "who is this random person and why did they poof?". 😃

[SneakyErvin]

17 hours ago, Renegade343 said:

I also never implied that.

Surely one can copy from someone that also copied from someone that also copied from someone (and again and again...).

I'm simply saying that with the already magnetic theme of Mag I think it is a stretch to let the thoughts go to Titanfall over Marvel characters. Even Neo is a massive stretch because he doesnt actually alter or stop bullets, he stops strings of code from having a certain outcome within a virtual reality.

[markus230]

19 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

They state, iirc, "You've been sleeping" and then the camera pans out of the girls eye and shows her off. In general storytelling, this means that this is "you", your character, and the story will go from there.

And since Warframe is about... using Warframes, I think it's pretty obvious if the game tells you that you are the human and then you play as a Warframe.

My character disappeared and now I'm a space ninja? Huh I wonder what happened /s

People arn't stupid. If you tell them that this is their character and then the character disappears and now you play as faceless robo-ninja, they won't just go: "Huh, my character disappeared so it's dead/gone". Cause you know... usually the protagonist doesn't die in the opening cinematic

Edited July 8, 2019 by markus230

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

3 hours ago, markus230 said:

And since Warframe is about... using Warframes, I think it's pretty obvious if the game tells you that you are the human and then you play as a Warframe.

My character disappeared and now I'm a space ninja? Huh I wonder what happened /s 

People arn't stupid. If you tell them that this is their character and then the character disappears and now you play as faceless robo-ninja, they won't just go: "Huh, my character disappeared so it's dead/gone". Cause you know... usually the protagonist doesn't die in the opening cinematic

I didn't see my character in that opening movie at all... I saw some defenseless citizen of a destroyed town go offer "glowy flowers" to statues of these fierce warriors... and then the statues woke up. "We" are the statues. The movie was talking to "me" as the viewer, not to the person drowning in the water at the start, from my perspective.

I think people who say this is spoiling the surprise are coming from a position of already knowing about operators and are making the false assumption that the girl in the movie is "our" operator (when it's clearly nothing like my guy... who is not a girl from Cetus/earth - I'm stuck in a cryopod on Lua at this point in the story... so... yeah)

 

Edited July 8, 2019 by (PS4)AyinDygra
is/are

[ecwp1981]

On 2019-07-07 at 3:30 AM, 0_The_F00l said:

We don't know the full story yet. 

The biggest take away for me? 

A mag rework or augment to catch bullets and throw them back. 

I was thinking about getting everything slowed down for volt 😄, even your team mates. Kinda like the effect for Quicksilver in Xmen and Flash in Justice League lol That would be fun 😛

[ecwp1981]

However, I dont get why the Warframes were battling the Grineer as well as the Orokin Guards (Dax(s)?) at the same time. And the part where all 3 of them scared/chased everyone away reminds me of the "Guyver" where the creators were afraid of their creation and took to their ships and left Earth (if anyone's a guyver fan that is).

[Monsterovich]

Honestly, this looks like a prequel to Warframe. The trailer shows us there were three "original" warframes: Excalibur, Mag and Volt just like in the original game but before that in another place. The girl is definitely a tenno because:
 

• She has tenno jewelry.
• She has these magic lotus flowers, because she knew... Lotus.
• She rubs Mag's helmet from Dust. How the hell could she ever know that there was glass, if it wasn't her warframe?
• She magically disappears at the end and only Mag is awoken.
• She looks older than our tenno like she's 21+ years old or older.

Just my thoughts.

Edited July 8, 2019 by Monsterovich

[0_The_F00l]

7 minutes ago, ecwp1981 said:

I was thinking about getting everything slowed down for volt 😄, even your team mates. 😛

Yeah, we used to be able to do that when power donation was released. 

Also bullet time in a live Co operative game doesn't translate well. 

[markus230]

1 hour ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

The movie was talking to "me" as the viewer, not to the person drowning in the water at the start, from my perspective.

Then why did it show the kid while saying "YOU've been sleeping"? Even if that was DE's intention, you can't expect everyone to understand it in this way. And it would be really weird to show people a Tenno if you don't want them to think that this is their actual character.

If you refer to the viewer as "You" and then you show them the character, most people would assume that this character is the protagonist.

I think people who say this is spoiling the surprise is coming from a position of already knowing about operators and are making the false assumption that the girl in the movie is "our" operator (when it's clearly nothing like my guy... who is not a girl from Cetus/earth - I'm stuck in a cryopod on Lua at this point in the story... so... yeah)

It's coming from a position of being familiar with Sci-Fi in general I'd say.

And ofcourse the Tenno doesn't look the way your actual Tenno does. Dovahkiin in Skyrim trailers is always a male Nord, your character likely doesn't look like him either. If the player character is customizable you have to settle on some pre-made place-holder to represent the player character, you can't really put an amorphous blob into a trailer

[Tunderke]

On 2019-07-07 at 4:56 AM, NightmareT12 said:

TBH I think it's just someone that's not physicially there at all and just serves to introduce everything to the player.

I gotta say though, my only disappointment is Vor not showing up. I needed to see him and his Janus Key in beuatiful Digic Pcitures CGI quality!

I am glad you like the Digic Pictures. Now I am proud.

[Lazarow]

I agree with the original post but we cant know if they will redo the first quest or some others to fit this in, as of now its just this-that-this and its confusing, the girl is clearly tenno when she takes the hood off, she most likely transfers in the frame or is calling other tenno somehow waking them up from lua which is also in the void and one random tenno is called uppon. why is she calling for help why not use the frames herself and punch-slash-kill the grineer. Where tf did she get the lotus flowers. Also does she just sacrifices herself to the void so other tenno can wake up if she doesnt transfer inside the warframe, where does she go and why, liek what happens to her, have we met her in some quest later on and didnt know? And if she is tenno why hasnt she used the warframes before to save her people. Even if she switches place with a tenno after placing the flowers in some sacrifical way as tenno can help her people, but wait there is noone in vor's prize other than you and grineer so then why have you been summoned by that one girl. In that case what happens to the people that managed to survive the grineer attack if any.

[FlusteredFerret]

On 2019-07-07 at 4:49 AM, (NSW)Sk0rp1on said:

It’s only a spoiler if you know it’s a spoiler. Otherwise it’s just a weird sequence of events.

That was my take on it too.

If you have literally just started playing, its not going to make a whole lot of sense to you (assuming you've been to see Spiderman, or just happened to be at TennoCon with a friend) and you'll have forgotten all about it by the time you get to the Second Dream quest.

For me that trailer was aimed more towards longer time players and veterans as a teaser for what's to come.

 

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

2 hours ago, ecwp1981 said:

However, I dont get why the Warframes were battling the Grineer as well as the Orokin Guards (Dax(s)?) at the same time. And the part where all 3 of them scared/chased everyone away reminds me of the "Guyver" where the creators were afraid of their creation and took to their ships and left Earth (if anyone's a guyver fan that is).

The flashback stuff looks like it is taking place during The Collapse (the part of the Old War where the Tenno turned on the Orokin and destroyed the empire. Details are still sketchy on that). 

The Grineer were originally created as a mass produced labor force of clones for the Orokin. That's why the Dax soldiers and Grineer are working together in the trailer.

[CosmicSchwung]

37 minutes ago, (XB1)Skippy575 said:

The Grineer were originally created as a mass produced labor force of clones for the Orokin. That's why the Dax soldiers and Grineer are working together in the trailer.

It's cool to see how fancy the Grineer's gear was back then. Not as clean as the corrupted, but you can definitely see the Orokin influence.

[Aldrr]

While I agree that a new player doesn't know what happens later down the story, but if they are on the canvas, people can connect dots. Left as-is, this feels like a foreshadowing of the events of the Second Dream.

A reveal that is supposed to be jaw-dropping, the story flipping the tables in the player's face (in a good way).

With this cinematic, instead of a "WHOA 😱!"   Second Dream will just link things and people be like "Oooh... okay 🤔"

And if you progress down the storyline, looking back, it doesn't match established continuity.

In the current format, the Tenno girl's little adventure throws a monkey wrench into the fact that all Tenno should be in their pods on Lua (except for Rell, who is stuck in the Harrow frame). It simply happens too early. If they really want to make it happen like this, then canonically add a second exception to the rule. A second Tenno who is off-Lua when the story kicks off (remember this can't be your character, Second Dream!).

Alternatively, if the shown cinematic was broken up into pieces and sprinkled across the story (Betrayal flashbacks for newbies, Tenno girl post-Second Dream [or War Within even]), it'd fit a whole lot better into the picture we already have (still separate from the character you create).

And then maybe we can entertain the idea of a full-fledged Tenno support character, who could sometimes run tactical support for us, instead of fake Lotus, for example. Complete with her own in-universe insight / opinion on events.

Just "thinking out loud," still digesting all this.

Edited July 9, 2019 by Aldrr

[FlyingDice]

On 2019-07-06 at 11:32 PM, Renegade343 said:

I was more focusing on the throwing bullets back than the general energy.

Mesa, then.

[Corvid]

On ‎2019‎-‎07‎-‎08 at 12:23 AM, TARINunit9 said:

VETERAN players will cotton onto the little details like her somatic implants. But a new player watching this as their first cutscene? They think small child is dead

Just to give an example of this, the Doctor Who episode "Heaven Sent" opens with a brief collection of shots with a narration by the titular character. These shots are both there to establish the environment, and to serve as clues to the episode's big twist (particularly the last one, where a bloodied hand reaches up to pull the lever that teleports the Doctor in before its unseen owner collapses). In hindsight, they are extremely blatant, but because a first time viewer lacks the proper context for the scene, they don't get spoiled.

It's a similar case here. We're only saying it's a spoiler because we have the context to know what it's spoiling.

[Aldrr]

@Corvid

There's a little more to it than just some people worrying about the cinematic half-giving away the Second Dream reveal to new players on a silver platter.

Once you get up to date on the story, and look back, parts of the new cinematic intro (as it was shown at tennocon) don't fit the narrative.
How is a Tenno awake before the Second Dream? How come she doesn't have to rely on a transference pod to "work her magic" before War Within?

 

Let me try an analogy...

At the beginning of Iron Man. Stark cobbles together a powered armor suit to break free of his captors, and is helped by a fellow hostage, Yinsen.
Let's say, at the end of the movie, we could ask Stark how he got out of that pickle.
Then he'd go "Did it all by myself, it's what heroes do. Cheers!"      <bad Stark impression but it'll have to do>

Point being: The new intro is visually stunning, can't dispute that. But currently, the way it is done, there are also inconsistencies.

Edited July 9, 2019 by Aldrr

[Freak5_5]

On 2019-07-08 at 5:23 AM, DeMonkey said:

If we're talking cinematography, don't neglect the bit before that.

"For generations you've slept, no purpose, no call to wake you". The narration here refers to you, the player.

Camera cuts to a character. Based on the context of the narration, this can be assumed to be you, the player. One should also consider that said character is seemingly in a state of stasis or disorientation at the time of the camera pan, and is startled to find themselves underwater. Regardless of the specifics here, the character is clearly waking up in a metaphorical sense to find themselves underwater and under attack, which ties directly into the narration that again, refers to you.

Obviously there's a lot more to it throughout the trailer that you list, but the very initial stuff imo sets the girl up as the player character. Couple this with the fact that the frames very clearly go through some sort of deactivation and I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if people piece it together... well, immediately.

You forget that the new player is more likely to interpret this as them being one of the warframes, after what the video shows...

[DeMonkey]

3 minutes ago, Freak5_5 said:

You forget that the new player is more likely to interpret this as them being one of the warframes, after what the video shows...

I think it's too early to state exactly how it's going to be interpreted by new players, I'm just voicing how I see that particular bit, and how I feel the narration and such can lead people on.

[OneYenShort]

On 2019-07-06 at 9:44 PM, NightmareT12 said:

I bet you also find biomechanical void golems right next yo your door.

What I'm trying to say is, don't overthink it.

Too late... Because I was thinking about amputees, voided warranty parts and was going....   You know... They might actually be next door.