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(PC) Gauss / Signature Weapons Feedback

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1 minute ago, BeastKingRizzo said:

I meant holster speed

Oh okay, no problem with what you said ^^

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DE don't ruin this good frame. Here are some changes I would like to see to make this a worthwhile frame.

1. Mach Rush distance covered should scale with power strength. Energy per cast should be cut in half when redline is active. The damage should be tied to melee mods along with power strength for scaling purposes.

2. Kinetic plating's gauge should decrease 2 seconds after taking damage. This will help to survive at higher levels and prevent one-shots. Energy returned upon damaged should be 20%.

3. Thermal sunder base range should be increased to 20 meters. The closing ring needs to be removed entirely. Allies inside the ring should gain damage buff that is affected by power strength.

4. Redline should increase sprint speed, small damage buff, and projectile flight speed along with the other 4 buffs that are already present. The point is to beef up everything so why not actually beef up everything like the name insinuates. Redline gauge should decrease slower based on efficiency and fill up based on power strength.

Thanks for your time. I hope DE makes the proper changes.

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I think one thing that would make a huge difference in tying Gauss's mobility to general damage-dealing is to give him faster movement speed, less friction, more slide while aiming. That could be another passive or it could be something granted during redline. Also, it would be cool if using mach rush while aiming could give you a short dash without taking you out of aim state.

Speaking of short dashes, I think tapping mach rush as it is gives a dash that goes waayy too short a distance. Something more like 5-7 meters would give us more dynamic, high speed control.

Maybe more mobility while aiming is a small thing, but it feels cooler and  it makes a difference versus shooting from the hip, where you lose accuracy.

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I feel like Gauss suffers from the same issues as Baruuk. Abilities that work against each other instead of synergizing, and needing too big micromanaging investment for a return that just isn't worth it. Except Baruuk is at least a dozen notches higher in general performance. At least, also like Baruuk, the sound design is incredible.

The weapons - fun, effective, satisfying visual effects and flying enemy bodies, AoE that's big enough to feel like AoE. Only thing I really don't understand is why weapons bundled with a frame that has firerate and reload speed buffs have enough ammo reserves for only two reloads.

Passive - This is just as useful as any other shield-related passive other than Hildryn's. If Kinetic Plating was better, maybe then it would have some use, but as things are, the passive is completely unnoteworthy. I don't believe explaining why is necessary, shield shortcomings are common knowledge at this point.

A battery note -  Under normal circumstances, we only get to fill roughly 80% of the battery gauge. The remaining 20% is only available during Redline. This is mostly important for Kinetic Plating and Redline itself.

Mach Rush - As a mobility ability, it's not really the best but the short dash on button tap option makes it batter than I expected it to be in normal tilesets. By chaining the dashes you can even get some decent maneuverability, though I wish the delay after a dash before another one can be used was shorter or absent altogether. The sprint variant is only viable on Plains, Orb Vallis, and some rare open stretches in normal tilesets. That was to be expected, however.  A welcome change would be the ability to aimglide during the sprint. Currently midair coverage of this ability is rather underwhelming as gravity gets in the way quickly, though you can work around it by either casting Mach Rush immediately after an upward bullet jump to keep some of its up momentum, or chaining the bursts while aim gliding. Both will let you cover a much greater distance in the air than just activating the sprint in the air.

The damage potential of this ability is completely negligible, though. It's rather counter-intuitive that running over enemies doesn't really do anything except for a knockdown, but the slam into a wall explosion can't do any real damage to anything but enemies at the lowest of levels. It wouldn't be as much of an issue if any of his other abilities offered high damage potential - but they don't.

Kinetic Plating -  By far the most disappointing part of his kit, that can be more detrimental than helpful. An ability that requires energy to activate, drains obscene amounts of battery per hit with no cooldown to protect you from fast-hitting enemies draining it instantly, and is duration based. Counting player's attention, it requires three resources to work, and that attention has to go both towards the timer and the state of the batter (which are on opposite ends of the screen.) If that wasn't bad enough, your protection isn't universal and it actively degrades as you take hits. And as per the battery note, that sweet looking 100% damage reduction you see on the ability screen? Yeah, you can't get that if you're not in Redline.

On top of the active battery drain per hit, there's also a small passive drain per second, and both add on top of the passive drain that Redline imposes. All together they make charging Redline very difficult, if not outright impossible when there are multiple enemies attacking you, which in turn makes it an ability that can get in the way more than it helps you. A lot of people say the damage to energy conversion is too low, but I honestly don't have any opinion on that - there are too many more pressing issues to worry about.

For starters, I think Gauss abilities should operate under the philosophy of 'If it costs energy, it either fills battery or at the very least it intact. If it drains battery, it either gives energy or at the very least leaves it intact.' which would be sensible since it's just converting one power source to another. So Kinetic Plating could either remain an energy, duration-based ability and not touch the battery at all (or maybe even charge it slightly, taking the kinetic energy of enemy attacks) or be a toggle that only drains the battery, but with a cooldown after hit so fast enemies don't drop it instantly (and although it'd be a 'channeled' ability, it wouldn't prevent energy regen from Zenurik because it'd have no energy cost per second, same as Equinox's 3).

Thermal Sunder -  What to say about this one... in my gameplay, it quickly became a 'fill battery when I don't want to move' button. The cold variant is strictly superior - it charges battery and slows/freezes enemies, which is good cc, much better than that offered by heat or blast. The latter two can't justify spending your battery with their damage, either. The status proc is only tied to the initial cast, the lingering are of effect only offers damage, and its already small radius constantly shrinks with time. It seems that by casting it in the same spot resets the radius while stacking the area damage of all active instances, but that's a massive energy investment for still not enough damage.

Cold I'd say is fine as is, the only problem is that it has too many particles in its area of effect, to the point where if you cast it multiple times it can seriously obstruct players' vision and cause frame drops. Heat needs to do more damage and since it consumes battery, either have no energy cost or refund some. Blast needs to strip armor always, not only in Redline, and the strip needs to be stronger as well. As it is, it really doesn't make a difference in fighting heavily armored units. It'd be nice if the base radius was brought up a little, too. Currently it doesn't have much use, but with some tuning it could become a solid ability.

Redline -  an ability so complicated that it could have it's own instruction booklet, yet the tips don't really explain how it works. So for those who don't know: Activating Redline unlocks the top 20% of your battery bar, but it also gives you a constant battery drain. When you go over the limiter, Redline charge (the counter that goes from 0 to 100%) starts going up automatically. If you go below half of your battery or so, Redline charge starts degrading. The rate at which Redline charge goes up depends on how close to full battery you are and your ability duration. If you charge perfectly, meaning you stay at full battery the entire time, it takes 60% of Redline's duration to get the counter to 100%, leaving you with only 40% of the duration to unleash hell unhindered.

Getting Redline charge to 100% stops all battery drain, even from taking damage with Kinetic Plating on. That means in that short time frame, you are completely invulnerable to physical, cold, heat and blast damage. Getting to 100% in optimal time is incredibly frustrating, however. While you can top off your battery with two casts of 1 or 3 right after activating Redline, the battery gain from running around doesn't even fully offset Redline's drain. If you add Kinetic Plating, the drain becomes very noticeable, and downright crippling if you take hits. If you shoot enemies, you move slower, and the drain increases. If you aim or try to melee, you slow down a lot, and the drain increases even more. If you have Kinetic Plating off and you get knocked down, you also lose a lot of battery. It's a war of attrition at every step, and your only options are running around like a headless chicken or casting 1 or 3 frequently to offset every time you had to slow down for some reason.

On the upside, the buffs are quite potent, and tied to your battery level rather than Redline's charge counter (which is both good and bad, depending on how you look at it). The projectiles do poor damage, but they can break containers and stagger enemies very effectively - if it's just one to three near you, they practically won't ever get a break. But frankly, when more than half of the ability is a constant battle against the batter drain, and only after you get to briefly unleash hell with your firerate and be an immortal god that's allergic to half of the damage types in the game, it just doesn't feel rewarding enough. Not when you could just take any other frame that can get similar results without jumping through all the hoops (like Wisp, for example). It's the same problem as Baruuk's Desert Wind. When the game requires you to be constantly active to achieve something, and even penalizes you when you fail to keep up (Baruuk's passive DR lowering as his restraint fills, Gauss' Kinetic Plating DR lowering as battery drops) the results need to be exceptional. And while they're nice, they're definitely not exceptional.

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Some people in this thread has already told about Gauses weapons deals self-damage to you if you fast enough, and about his passive dont feel in game, but I want to offer a solution: current feature of acceltra akarius, what if you sprint you reload faster, would make a good Gauss passive (of course it would work with any weapons) and how about to change weapons signature feature to: "Gauss not taking self-damage from his own signature weapons". Maybe it would be "too op" but I think it would be fun and logical.

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Posted (edited)

perhaps melee attacks and "bullets" that make contact with an enemy should also fill the meter 

EDIT: On second thought maybe just on melee attacks instead of on Primary/Secondary.

Edited by Raqiya
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3 hours ago, Xepthrichros said:

Based on reviews and feedback I am reading, I suppose I can skip Gauss. 

See, the problem this is, despite being bad he still manages to be stupidly fun. He's in much the same position pre-rework Nezha was in.

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Weapons: great fun, albeit short lived fun due to high firerate and reload but tiny ammo pool, the damage output doesn't reward conservative shooting either, so either make the ammo pool larger or give a minor passive ammo mutation, (or maybe even make it drain battery to get a free reload when at 0 ammo)
 

Gauss: (after playing for longer and with more builds I've refined my problems down to a few dot points)

*His first ability march rush should build battery charge when hitting enemies with it (if it does this already increase the amount of charge), this'll make it easier to build charge and build charge faster in a wider variety of situations.

*as plenty of people have already stated; increase the energy conversion on kinetic plating, not by much, maybe bump it to 15-20% at most.

*if possible for thermal sunder it would be good to be able to press the ability key 3 times in rapid succession to deploy an ice and fire proc simultaneously in order to get the most out of the duration.

*and finally, make redline's buffs scale from power strength, and make it easier to build to 100%, this makes the setup worth the payoff.

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Posted (edited)

Gauss is a cool concept, but two of his main abilities have serious problems, and I believe many players will stop playing him when they encounter the following problems:

(First Problem) : His first ability Mach Rush is too slow. When I am in POE or OV, my team has beaten me to the next objective every-time using blink with their arch-wings. It really ruins the point of playing Gauss just for his speed and I feel like I am holding up the team every-time I run on the ground. In my last mission in POE, it took me an extra 10 seconds to get to the door when everyone else blinked over there. By the way, I am not asking to nerf blink, just buff Gauss' speed.

(First Solution) : Make his fourth ability RedLine, double his speed or something. When I am playing something that runs on the ground fast, I want to feel like I am on the edge of loosing control, and when I am running Gauss on the plains, I could probably run while half a sleep. Make him so fast, that it actually requires skill to handle him.

(First Side Note) : He needs a high jump during Mach Rush to jump over obstacles on POE or OV, or players will be stuck running on the roads, running around mountains to get to the next objective.

(Second Problem) : RedLine charge up time is problematic. If you increase Gauss' power duration, it takes a long time to build up the speed meter. At max power duration, it took me 50 seconds to get the speed meter up to full, leaving me with 10 seconds of feeling topped off on my speed meter. If my power duration is 50 percent, then it charges up super fast, but only a few seconds of remaining time feeling good with a topped off speed meter. Again, what is the point of managing a speed meter under these conditions?

(Second Solution) : One fix could be to have the speed meter keep its current progress when RedLine expires instead of setting it back to zero. Another solution could be to increase the ratio of charge up to charge down time, so it feels more meaningful to invest in charging up the speed meter and feeling good that it is topped off with significant amount of time to spare.

DE please fix with love.

Edited by linuxfreebird
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Gauss seems to have two powers that goes a bit against the principle of being a supreme speedster and not getting hit :

  • Kinetic Plating rewards you with energy for getting hit, which goes against the principles of "going fast" : you can't get hit if you go fast.
  • Thermal Sunder will require you to slow down in a group of enemies if you want to use it efficiently.

To this, we can add the following issues :

  • Kinetic Plating is great on paper, but falls very flat if you fight anything with damage types outside from physical, cold, heat and blast. This makes the power unreliable since its efficiency will vary depending of the enemies you are fighting against. Fights against the infested with Gauss can be problematic.
  • Kinetic Plating is something you want up at any time. Having to reactivate it everytime its duration expires can end up being a hassle for the user.

My suggestions :

  • Make Kinetic Plating block all kind of damage, but make its damage blocking power affected by your speed : this means that the faster you go, the more you will reduce damage. The goal here is to encourage the Gauss user to be as mobile as possible.
    • Make the highest damage block value linger for a few seconds (3 seconds ?) if you go less fast or stop at one point, otherwise the power could feel even more unreliable since stopping for anything would be a death sentence.
  • Make Kinetic Plating a toggle power. 
  • Move the energy gain "somewhere else" : Gauss shouldn't be encouraged to get hit IMO.
    • Maybe the energy gain could be made by converting your battery into Warframe energy ? For example, you could hold Kinetic Plating, and it will convert all your battery into energy.
  • Give to Thermal Sunder freeform casting. Freeform casting (cast at reticle location) could be an efficient way to allow Gauss to cast his power without having to slow down too much.
    • May be not adapted for console players ?
    • May require a nerf to the AoE size to compensate : freeform cast is one hell of a buff to an ability that may not really require one.

I'm not done reviewing the warframe yet, but this is the two main flaws that bother me so far.

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Some additional thoughts i'm having about Gauss's ability kit. While I'd say all the abilities are fun, none of them are especially useful or spectacular when it comes to damage or utility. Maybe the best is Thermal Sunder for it's quick and effective CC. Kinetic Plating is fine as a defensive ability, but it's a set-it-and-forget-it which is pretty standard for defense abilities. But still, Gauss lacks a singular sort of WOW factor, which I think all the decent and above average frames have. Sure, he's fast, but it's almost sort of a bauble, a hat feather, something that looks cool but isn't super functional. I'm going to quote my own post above about making mobility functional.

2 hours ago, Brucely said:

I think one thing that would make a huge difference in tying Gauss's mobility to general damage-dealing is to give him faster movement speed, less friction, more slide while aiming. That could be another passive or it could be something granted during redline. Also, it would be cool if using mach rush while aiming could give you a short dash without taking you out of aim state.

Speaking of short dashes, I think tapping mach rush as it is gives a dash that goes waayy too short a distance. Something more like 5-7 meters would give us more dynamic, high speed control.

Maybe more mobility while aiming is a small thing, but it feels cooler and  it makes a difference versus shooting from the hip, where you lose accuracy.

I think the best way to solve Gauss's lack of WOW factor would be to make Redline go farther in feeling more... redline. In particular when it comes to how weapons get buffed. As in, Redline should be the way we overclock our weapons. In comparison to other fire-rate boosting abilities, like wisp's reservoirs (low energy cost) or harrow's penance (heals), redline is just too conservative. Here are some ideas I have for additional weapon changes that Redline could apply.

  • Significant status chance and/or crit chance/damage buff and/or multishot buff (obvious buffs, but also more interesting than a straight damage buff).
  • Skip reloads and weapon charge times (bows, opticor, ferrox, etc.).
  • Massively increase punch through (only if punch through is added via mods or innate) and projectile speed.
  • Layer an additional sound and visual effect onto weapons fired while in redline.

Just think of all the variety that this opens up. Imagine going into Redline with a nagantaka and just letting its alt fire rip.

 

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Posted (edited)

Alright, so here's my suggestions for changing Gauss, and not just in terms of making him more powerful, but making his kit more cohesive, synergistic, and functional as a real speedster.

New Passive: Silver Bullet 

  • His current passive is dropped completely, because it's just bad. Name could be something different, this is just what jumped to mind.
  • Gauss can fire weapons while sprinting, and activate abilities while running in Mach Speed! (The latter he can already do, now it's just listed here)

Ability 1: Mach Speed

  • I don't believe this is currently being fully multiplied by sprint speed modifiers. Well, guess what: It now is.
  • Mach Speed's damage is now enhanced by mods equipped on your melee weapon!
  • This includes crit chance and status chance.
  • Has a base crit chance and status chance of 0. This will come into play later!
  • Does NOT gain any benefit from, or build combo multiplier. This is Atlas' cheese.

Ability 2: Kinetic Plating

  • Now has a very short cooldown on how frequently battery can be drained by incoming damage.
  • Now protects against all damage types, but caps out at 80%. 60% of this bonus can be gained normally, the last 20 requires Redline.
  • (Alternatively) Do what D20 said and make the damage reduction completely dependent on how fast you are currently moving. That's actually a cool idea.
  • No longer adds slash to his 1's collisions. Not that this even matters. Especially as this is being replaced later.
  • No longer converts energy on hit. Instead... Builds energy for each enemy YOU hit! This ability now returns 2/2/4/4% of total energy for each enemy you bowl into with Mach Speed.

Ability 3: Thermo-Kinetic Engine 

  • This ability's design makes almost no sense with the rest of Gauss' kit. It's getting a partial overhaul.
  • Tapping this ability now swaps between heat and cold mode.
  • Holding creates the AoE damage field we have now, and also swaps to the other element.
  • Always confers a bonus of either 25% crit chance (Cold) or 33% status chance (Heat) to Gauss' 1 depending on current element.
  • Always confers all status effects and debuffs of the current selection to Gauss' 1
  • Enemies effected by either the damage field or Gauss' 1 take either 40% more damage (cold), or have 40% of their armor stripped (heat). These debuffs are doubled when in Redline.
  • *Optional* Damage done by Gauss' AoE patches is now percentile. Shouldn't be enough to do most of the work, but should be more than enough to soften enemies up for his guns.

Ability 4: Redline

  • This ability is actually great. 
  • The only thing that changes is that duration no longer confers ANY negative effect to it.

 

So in a nutshell, what is this? Improved synergy, improved reward for playing Gauss... Well... How he's supposed to be played, and making even more sure that there are very few reasons to EVER STOP MOVING AT ABSURD SPEEDS. Buffs, but ones specifically targeted at keeping him doing and being what he already seems meant to do and be. While this *does* give him more damage as part of his abilities, the greater intent is to push him further towards being a frame that debuffs and cripples with his abilities and does damage with his guns.

Edited by XaoGarrent
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Posted (edited)

WHOOSH!

I am having a ton of fun playing this frame. He is excellently put together. His kit is interconnected, thematic and demanding of player skill and input to really make shine. To me he feels like Harrow, but with going fast instead of gunplay. Zip over there, lock down a group, zip away, lock down another, hit the previous group, go Redline, hit the second group, zip to a new spot, lock it down, slap on defenses, knock over this threat.... Keep thinking, keep moving. This frame is really well built toward that "never stop" kind of gameplay. I'm really into it.

Also, big ups to the sound design team for once again knocking it out of the park.

Edited by SenorClipClop
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A lot of good feedback in this thread. I just want to say that I really, really hope DE listens closely and makes some good changes. I've been super hyped about Gauss ever since he was first revealed, more so than I have been about any frame in a long time. And I think a lot of other people have been super excited about Gauss. Gauss has the potential to be a big hit. Please don't let us down!

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About Akarius, 

This reload is very high, it was horrible, I understand that you want to return the normal reload when running, but it was really horrible, terrible, why don't you do the same as Acceltra? leave normal reload like any other weapon and add reload speed? 3.4s is terrible, there is no other word, you won't always be able to sprint and gun, you already have little ammo and magazine, I think it's enough backdraw.

Please review this reload, it's horrible.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Peter said:

About Akarius, 

This reload is very high, it was horrible, I understand that you want to return the normal reload when running, but it was really horrible, terrible, why don't you do the same as Acceltra? leave normal reload like any other weapon and add reload speed? 3.4s is terrible, there is no other word, you won't always be able to sprint and gun, you already have little ammo and magazine, I think it's enough backdraw.

Please review this reload, it's horrible.

Agreed, weapons that has worse reload than it is NORMAL snipetron, NORMAL gorgon, and dual cestra only, all of those are basically outdated or has large magazine.

It  doesn't really makes sense in twin burst, 10 mag/20 ammo pistol.

Edited by Test-995

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Posted (edited)

Well the most important aspect of Gauss has been fulfilled and that is going fast. You go really fast and it's fun. Good job DE. One complaint I have besides the stuff on this thread that I won't retread is his shield. Your source of energy is taking physical damage with the shield up. Maybe I'm spamming 1 too much (because I am, because it's awesome) but enemies aren't hitting me enough to keep my energy up. It kinda seems like it's wanted for you to keep zooming around to not get hit with the whole "can't hurt what you can't hit" mantra. I mean its like this single ability wants you to try to tank but you uh, cant. Maybe he should have some different way of getting his energy back? Once you hit a certain percentage on your battery you start gaining energy? That'd make sense to me. Also, when you red line and then mach rush you should be the fastest thing in the game. Like for the first 3 seconds of running you gain a bit more speed. Also some kind of jump that way sprinting across the Plains and vallis is actually viable. His noble animation is not perfectly looped and is also a bit too much movement. Maybe a bit of Bruce Lee style hopping would be cool, but him constantly bouncing up and down gets obnoxious.

I'm certain the community has put together the absolute optimal fixes for Gauss and the general notion seems to be he feels great thematically, sounds great, looks great, and is really cool, but is ultimately vauban tier. He needs to get tuned up soon, like before Grendel gets released. It would really suck if the community pushed Gauss into the back of everyone's minds and his fix being glossed over in the patch notes in a year.

Edited by teKritin
I'm scatterbrained and forgot half of what I was gunna say lmao

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Noble animation is... giving me a bit of motion sickness, i know he needs to look speedy, but he needs to slow the hopping a bit lol

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I did some more tests and I wanted to say that skill 2 is not cool, with it enabled the Gauge is always 0, and consequently damage mitigation is minimal, of all damage mitigation skills I think this is the worst, it's It is very difficult to play with it activated.

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Gauss with Mach Rush should be able to run up and along walls at high speed instead of crashing into them.

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Gauss looks great and is quite fun but will be discarded by most of the community fairly quickly. Just like Harrow he requires lots of managing of your abilities but doesn't offer anything significant over other frames. He isn't the fastest, he needs lots of involvement, and the constantly changing buffs make him somewhat inconsistent.

Overall I don't think there isn't anything wrong with him but he will fall into obscurity as soon as the shiny new thing glare has worn off since he lacks a USP from a gameplay/utility perspective, there is nothing in the game he is the best at.

 

The weapons are a mixed bag: while they do not kill you as often as other launchers they still kill you regularly. The low ammo maximum is interesting as it forces you to keep moving but unfortunately moving towards what you are killing also puts you into harms way.

The Acceltra is interesting as it is a rifle that is also a launcher and has incredible crit stats together with AoE so it definetly has many moments where it is just awesome - right up to the point where you did not get a rifle ammo pickup during a fight in an open area or blow yourself up. Won't dethrone the Fulmin or Ignis Wraith but still decent.

The Akarius on the other hand has a much greater risk of blowing yourself up with an even more severe ammo max situation. It's damage potential is wasted in most star chart level missions and there are other tools at hand to spread status effects to multiple enemies. Not bad but also not even close to the best secondaries available.

 

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Posted (edited)

So after formaing gauss, I gotta say that his kit feels very micromanage-y. I have to try and focus on his synergies, anti synergies, and gauge levels along with the other stuff happening ingame and it's almost a chore, especially redline.

Redlined by the way seems worth it but with how long it takes to fill the gauge despite spamming 1 and 3 and the innate drain while also not counting kinetic plating drain, the duration will be over half gone by the time you get to enjoy the full buffs. The redline buffs also seem weirdly made, with the holster buff providing the most tangible benefit at any gauge level despite being the least useful. If the other buffs were on par with the holster buff, the time needed to fill the gauge would seem worth it.

Edited by -Bv-Concarne
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I'm posting to say that Flitz (page 5) has a load of good pointers on the finer workings of Gauss' abilities and that some adjustments to help Gauss' battery concept along would be great. Right now I think it's really bad that our ability statistics have 0 effect on the battery gauge and I think that needs to change for certain.

 

I won't offer specific proposals but let's just say it's unfair if we mod ourselves to be extremely efficient and have our frame's (extremely active) passive not compensate to fit this; cause at that point it becomes a hinderance more than a gimmick which will turn people away from the frame.

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Not sure if anyone else has run into this but intermittently, the Akarius won't reload, no matter if I swap weapons, go to operator, melee; the weapon is stuck at 0. 

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