Feedback on Mod Drop Booster

[K4RN4]

But where is the source. I have not heard of a mod drop chance booster.

[WhiteMarker]

4 minutes ago, HIGHDAMAGE said:

of course they can always lock it but definitely a step backward on f2p direction

So you have no idea what f2p means then?
It means, free to play. Warframe is free to play. And as any other free to play game you can spend money, or use trade, to safe time.

[Gabbynaru]

8 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

And again, farming is stupidly easy. No need to make it even easier with stacking lootframes.

Shady behavior is still shady, no matter how little of an effect it has.

[RX-3DR]

Just now, Drachnyn said:

But already could just farm by yourself with nekros. Nothing about that got better, the better alternative was just removed. Hilariously enough the nerf actually removed variety in farming. Before you had the choice between using 4 nekros and covering the entire area or camping down at one spot with hydroid and nekros.

And now you can run Nekros on your own together with the booster as opposed to finding someone to mule with Hydroid/Ivara? How is it worse? What's stopping you from running Hydroid and Nekros or 4 Nekros? The variety of compulsion? Do you people have Stockholm syndrome with "optimal squads" or something?

[FerockQuartz]

2 minutes ago, K4RN4 said:

But where is the source. I have not heard of a mod drop chance booster.

Read about Atlas Prime Access thread. You'll see it there.

[Walkampf]

vor 34 Minuten schrieb (XB1)SixGunLove:

DE nerfs meta farming for mods

Also DE: buy my NEW  7 day mod drop chance booster.

Oh yeah, because it's Mods, that are people looking most for, when farming.... 🙄 🤣

Seriously, a mod booster is the least important booster.

Also, it's a DROP CHANCE booster, because of this, similar to the Ressource drop booster, it benefits EVERYONE in the group.

[Loza03]

Unpopular opinion: DE should have made the lootframe stacking fix way earlier.

Even if it's using intended mechanics, that much loot acquisition potential for such little gameplay engagement is undoubtedly bad for the game's already fragile and broken economy. If you hate the fact DE introduces new resources all the time of late, you can blame those farms for that. Near-unlimited, easy, passive access meant that even adding a resource sink would be pointless.

The game's elements aren't designed in isolation.

Edited September 25, 2019 by Loza03
Apparently not so unpopular after all.

[(XBOX)Phantom Clip]

It seemed shady that 4 players could loot the same dead body.

It seemed more shady that 1 body could be cut up into pieces and each part could be separately looted by 4 players.  But I was not complaining, more for me.  They changed it, I have to change with it or stop playing. 

It's not like I paid for the game. I didn't get baited to buy and then they switched it up on me.  They have to make money somehow.

I mean they could have done shadow nerf. Remove the stacking looting feature without saying anything. Or even made more brown mods and crap resources drop when using multiple loot frames in a party.

At least they were honest. 

[Guest]

Reb already said that the booster 'won't be PA exclusive' but I'm not going to make a judgement for one way or the other until we know what it actually means.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

Just now, Loza03 said:

Unpopular opinion: DE should have made the lootframe stacking fix way earlier.

Even if it's using intended mechanics, that much loot acquisition potential for such little gameplay engagement is undoubtedly bad for the game's already fragile and broken economy. If you hate the fact DE introduces new resources all the time of late, you can blame those farms for that. Near-unlimited, easy, passive access meant that even adding a resource sink would be pointless.

The game's elements aren't designed in isolation.

Vary well put. 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

Just now, Pr1A said:

won't be PA exclusive'

She said "maybe" in other words no answer. 

[Gabbynaru]

1 minute ago, WhiteMarker said:

The fix was done weeks ago. The new booster won't change anything.

Actually, the new booster does change things. Because it raises the question of whether that fix was done for the good of the players or for the good of DE's bank account. And with the evidence at hand, it goes from being an unpopular change that in the long run amounted to nothing, to an unpopular change made so that the old version can be sold back to you. DE created a problem and are now selling you the solution, and frankly, I'm not gonna applaud them for that when the solution was free for all previously. It is shady behavior, and just cause you chose to ignore it doesn't mean it didn't happen or that it doesn't affect people.

[Drachnyn]

Selling mod drop chance boosters is basically selling a solution to a problem they created themselves.

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 hour ago, Vox_Preliator said:

And we already have extreme outliers in terms of Mods

Heh, yeah, yeah we do... I would like to present the lovely farm for Twirling Spire and Swooping Falcon, the best Stance mods for their respective weapons, as candidates for the 'outliers' category.

While they do, in fact, come from Cetus Bounties on rotation, where they can drop from the very highest tier at either Stage 4 or Stage 5, with the highest chance for them being around 8.16%, there is only one other place these mods drop if they are not in the daily reward rotation; the Plains Commander.

Twirling Spire drops from the Recon Commander at a 0.5% chance, while the Recon Commander only has a 33% chance to spawn. Similarly Swooping Falcon drops from the Aerial Commander at 0.5% chance and that commander only has a 33% chance to spawn. The same mission that spawns the Commander can evenly spawn any of the 3 types of Commander.

This is only ever on the Bounty task 'Assassinate' which doesn't even always happen in your mission rotation as there are 9 types of Bounty task and the 'Assassinate' is only guaranteed if you are taking the Bounty specifically named something like 'kill the grineer commander'.

So, if the level 5 Bounty is not called 'kill the grineer commander' there is only a 55.5% chance that the Assassinate task will appear, only a 33% chance that the specific Commander will appear in that task, and then only a 0.5% chance to get that specific mod to drop. This results in a rather spectacular variety in getting the mod you want.

If mod is in rotation as a Bounty reward, you have up to an 8.16% chance at the highest, 5.41% chance at the lowest from the actual rewards. This is not including the chances of the mod dropping from the unit itself.

If the mod is not in rotation, but the Bounty type is guaranteed to contain the correct Assassinate task, you have a lovely 0.00165% chance (that's 33% chance to spawn the commander, and 0.5% chance to drop the mod).

If the mod is not in rotation and the Bounty is not guaranteed to contain the correct task, that chance is then 0.00091575% due to the chance of the correct mission not even spawning.

Soooooo...

If there is a Mod Booster being released to the general public... there are cases where I could actually welcome it and might buy it just specifically for my own farming.

[Drachnyn]

vor 11 Minuten schrieb Walkampf:

Oh yeah, because it's Mods, that are people looking most for, when farming.... 🙄 🤣

Seriously, a mod booster is the least important booster.

Also, it's a DROP CHANCE booster, because of this, similar to the Ressource drop booster, it benefits EVERYONE in the group.

Have you heard of Condition Overload?

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

19 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

So you have nothing to offer? Just wanted to make a random thread with no point?

This thread has purpose. It's a discussion about wether or not DE added this new booster for the good of the player or for the good of DE.

Edited September 25, 2019 by (XB1)SixGunLove

[DeMonkey]

11 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

Because it raises the question of whether that fix was done for the good of the players or for the good of DE's bank account.

And, with regards to this, this plays into @HIGHDAMAGE's "moving further away from f2p" comment. 

When decisions are financially motivated, the free to play model suffers, as does to some extent, the quality of the game. I don't think anyone can deny that there have been a fair few financially motivated decisions over the years, hell, just look at the most recent (not Atlas) Prime Access, where DE finally got around to making Wukong a good frame just because it would make them money. Not because they were passionate about him, not because the community had been asking, but because money.

And has he received any further tweaks based on the provided feedback? No? Because there's limited money in it, they've got the sales they wanted.

Effectively nerfing drop rates (albeit in niche groups) only to sell you a drop rate buff at a premium a month or two down the line definitely has shady elements to it, there's no way around that. I just hope that it is something that isn't PA exclusive, as has been mentioned previously.

On the other hand, at least we don't have to pay for our battle pass. That's something, right?

Edited September 25, 2019 by DeMonkey

[RX-3DR]

Just now, Gabbynaru said:

I'm not gonna applaud them for that when the solution was free for all previously.

Just because it's "free" doesn't mean it is a good situation. There were two problems with the whole farming meta thing that was hurting the game. it penalized people without the full farm frame collection and it hits solo and isolated groups especially hard. It also created a definite "optimal" choice, which hurts people finding other groups and it meant that anyone willing to go along with it has to put up with selecting from a list of 4 frames.

Look at it in the perspective of farming Vengeful Revenant, solo players or people who don't run a farm frame have significantly lower odds of getting it as opposed to your pure meta farming team. Then look at more recent level/enemy designs where things are designed to give players back choice as opposed to a few optimal choices.

[Fire2box]

36 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

And there was nothing wrong with the fix.

DE said it was a bug for years yet never fixed it until this year. Why? 

The only reason to nerf it to one loot ablity is intentionally hurt the farming of anyone late to the game. A new player today can't go to derelict survival and farm mutagen samples like me and 2-3 friends did, earning the Hema in about 90 mins. Because unlike my team, they can't stack Nekros + Hydroid which was a viable loot farm for longer then I've played Warframe myself. They could of just capped it out at that, having it remain fair across the board for all players forever.

But nah what DE wanted to do was blame their bad anti-cheat system for breaking during the now infamously rare double drop weekends. (Only one for the 2+ years I've been playing. Thanks DE!) Rather then just fixing their anti-cheat system and telling it's okay if 3-5 growing powers drop in a single mission. 

[trst]

Quoting since it seems some people haven't seen the actual explanation:

20 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

This is a slow and experimental change to our tried and true PA formula that doesn't disrupt the existing prices, but gives those who support us first access to something new in the program. It's a bonus 7-day Mod Drop Chance, which doubles a given enemies chance at dropping a Mod (i.e kill a unit with a 20% chance, expect that to double).  A lot of feedback has been 'swap out the boosters', so instead of completely swapping we're just adding a bonus for now (and a new type at that). Hoping to see Resource enter the formula as well later one, but one step at a time.


Also relevant comment:

Yep, introduce it in other ways for sure, first access in PA, though (maybe Baro will bring it on a visit! Maybe a Nightwave reward! Refresh Sortie rewards?!)!

We should wait until it actually goes in and seeing how expensive it is and how high tier it'll be from NW if they go these routes. Though ultimately the booster is actually a waste of time to get considering the actual drop rates of certain rare mods.

Look at Condition Overload, there are two enemies that can drop it with a 3% and 4% to drop any mod at all followed by an astounding 0.67% chance to drop Condition Overload out of their loot pool. Since the booster is just increasing the chance to get a mod at all you're still looking at slim chances at getting what you want.

Plus unless you farm mods with the sole purpose of selling them to others you have no need to farm multiple copies of mods. And if people want to justify this booster as shady then the fact that drop rates this low exist for tradable items should have been a far bigger red flag.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

Just now, Gabbynaru said:

Why? I don't need to waste my time proving anything to you when you don't respect this thread, this discussion or anyone in it enough to prove your own points. I'm just gonna take a page from your book and explain F all of what I mean, cause why bother, "I'm clearly right and anyone disagreeing with me is wrong."

See above!

I do see it. It's just you trying to justify shifting the burden of proof. It's a good indication that you have nothing to back up your assertions. That suggests that you are making false claims. 

That's on you. Not anyone else. 

[Fire2box]

16 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Even if it's using intended mechanics, that much loot acquisition potential for such little gameplay engagement is undoubtedly bad for the game's already fragile and broken economy. If you hate the fact DE introduces new resources all the time of late, you can blame those farms for that.

Whatever. You know DE's still going to introduce new resources all the time even after the fix because people who have played for years still amass insane number of resources regardless of boosters or dedicated resource farming. DE can't have a item cost 500 orokin cells to make even though that's maybe 40% of my stash because it would be unfair to anyone new. 

So new weapons or frames will generally come with new resources so players have to grind atop of whatever grind for the blueprints is. so in reality, the only people 2019's loot nerf hurts is anyone who is now just getting into warframe. Anyone before hand likely benefited unless they ran solo only or never once joined a farming session. DE can change the game however they want and in the EULA/TOS, they can ban any one for any reason at any time. So if they wanted, they could just ban anyone who complains. 

[Drachnyn]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb DeMonkey:

And, with regards to this, this plays into @HIGHDAMAGE's "moving further away from f2p" comment. 

When decisions are financially motivated, the free to play model suffers, as does to some extent, the quality of the game. I don't think anyone can deny that there have been a fair few financially motivated decisions over the years, hell, just look at the most recent (not Atlas) Prime Access, where DE finally got around to making Wukong a good frame just because it would make them money. Not because they were passionate about him, not because the community had been asking, but because money.

And has he received any further tweaks based on the provided feedback? No? Because there's limited money in it, they've got the sales they wanted.

Effectively nerfing drop rates (albeit in niche groups) only to sell you a drop rate buff at a premium a month or two down the line definitely has shady elements to it, there's no way around that. I just hope that it is something that isn't PA exclusive, as has been mentioned previously.

On the other hand, at least we don't have to pay for our battle pass. That's something, right?

It is something but if the industry as a whole has proven something, then it's if you give them a hand they take the entire arm. So it's very important to keep an eye out for changes like this and call them out on it aswell.

[Gabbynaru]

4 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

And now you are backing of, because you fail to prove something.

2 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

I do see it. It's just you trying to justify shifting the burden of proof. It's a good indication that you have nothing to back up your assertions. That suggests that you are making false claims.

Except I already did, in my third post in this thread. If you can't see it, that's on you. Ignorance is bliss, after all.

[ExcaliburUmbra]

After months of silence regarding player feedback on the loot frame changes (despite having numerous opportunities to address it), releasing a new Prime Access-exclusive booster does seem a bit suspect.

If they had maybe released a news post or workshop discussing their plans and specified that the booster wasn’t exclusive to Prime Access ahead of time, I could see this going down better then it did. 

I’m personally going to wait and see what DE does with this before I jump to conclusions, but definitely not a good look.

Edited September 25, 2019 by ExcaliburUmbra