Dev Workshop - Melee Rework Phase 2: TECHNIQUE

[OPLoki]

1. so will the tactical dodge be applied even if you are aiming down sights and not in full melee mode? i certainly hope not. trying to jump across a gap while aiming and having that cut your roll distance down seems like a bad change.

2. and as i understand it auto blocking will still work as is if you are not in full melee mode correct? is there any way we could make it so auto blocking does not interupt actions like reloading?

3. my biggest caution would be the new combo system, having heavy hitting neutral combo attacks that require no movement inputs during them seems like a bad idea to me, even if my enemy is standing still or laying on the ground i will ALWAYS be moving, circle strafing, something. i feel like telling people to stop and attack this one guy in a game like warframe really breaks the flow of the game. i will heavily suggest a change here. can we at least be putting in sideways movement inputs at the very least?

other then that i like the idea of building the combo counter and consuming it on heavy attacks. i am SUPER glad that ragdolling enemies halfway across the map will be gone (or at least less common, i wonder if this will change the telos boltace.. i hope so. can it put them into lifted status instead?)

only my 2 cents. 

[Kainosh]

Looks alright...

But "Lifted state" seems....too easy to entertain.  At least for me target is too locked in place.   That much of "assist" kinda removes all challenge, turning it into routine killing.

Also, it seems to hover enemy close to the ground....that makes Aerial melee impractical VS "lifted" targets....bummer.....Shooting them will also be borish, as they just hang there.

 

 I would love "aimed ragdoll" on Heavy attack  instead.  Like....baseball. You aim upwards..."bang!" and enemy goes high. You aim low and enemy gets knocked down at your feet.  That kind of sht.  More control over where you "throw" them. 

And "Lifted state" should activate only if you hit/shoot airborne (ragdolled) target imo.   So you kinda have to aim that first shot/hit, but after that "lift" will hold target in place, making it easier to combo.  That would be better than "lifting" them by default with slam imo.

 

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

I dont see anything about the scythe changes that were mentioned a while ago where scythes use heavy blade stances and will be increased in size, is that still happening?

[No_Quarter]

Maiming no longer additive, well, that one surprised no one.... like..... anyone who every suggested it should be fixed just said that should fix it.... Tho I am still glad that is happening, spinning macro spammers are flooding the game, I understand DE "allows macros" but when someone makes slide macro to move trough entire level with one click that just begs for a ban.

Looking forward to the update, lots of good stuff in there. 

2 hours ago, Famousguy221 said:

RIP CO

think you did some meth instead of math there

[kyori]

3 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Heavy attacks can now occur at any time, simply by pressing the Alt-fire button while you have melee equipped or in your hand

So we don't aim with our gun anymore like it did now eh?

All Rebecca showed was the Heavy Slam Attack, so Heavy Attack is only a single strike or can keep pressing alt-fire to combo too?

3 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Since the Combo Multiplier will apply to Heavy Attacks only

Since you said the Combo Counter will reset to 0, when all the existing multiplier applied to Heavy Attacks.. so that particular Heavy Attack's damage is based on the flat number provided by the whatever number present on the Combo Counter before using Heavy Attack? So that means it won't scale, right?

It also means normal melee attack damage now won't scale too, right? If so, it is a straight nerf. 

Do you have any idea how much the present combo multiplier to a melee's damage helped in fighting against very high level enemies? With the new non-scaling phase 2, this will hurt the melee system a lot, my friend. Buffing the numbers won't help, unless the goal is to prevent players from doing long mission runs.

 

EDIT: Can we have some real QoL melee changes like the ability to hit enemies below us on the stairs/slopes when we aim our crosshair down, instead of our melee hitting air due to it being programmed to hit at the same elevation as our warframe is standing.

[(PSN)Dyin-Kyo]

Where's the zaw exodia changes? Exodia triumph, exodia valor, and exodia brave?

[No_Quarter]

1 minute ago, kyori said:

normal melee attack damage now won't scale too, right? If so, it is a straight nerf. 

again, math.

base damage is way up so "scaling" is not needed, your kits do combo 2-3x damage from the get go. You scale up with heavy when you need more, also scaleable mods. duh

 

update is a BUFF to overall melee output

[nokturnihs]

I hate everything about this. I play melee mainly because I have disabilities(hands shake/coordination issues/weakness/etc) and melee allowed me to play the game with some sense of skill and contribution.

All I see here is nerfing and pandering to the barbie dress up crowd. I will try it but if it's not the exact opposite of what it looks like here, I'm done with this game. Played over 3k hours here and supported the devs as much as possible and then some financially, but they were told this sounded awful by many, many people before and yet here it comes, so... well, we'll see but I'm not excited.

[Takkov]

So heavy attacks are put on the button that noone really wants to use, due to it being the middle mouse button? Seems rather bad from a mechanical point of view.

Also, what about the most important thing: channeled armor (esp acanthus prime shoulders)?

[No_Quarter]

1 minute ago, Takkov said:

So heavy attacks are put on the button that noone really wants to use, due to it being the middle mouse button? Seems rather bad from a mechanical point of view.

ESC / OPTIONS - bind a button you like, put a gas pedal from your wheel if you got one

[Diezen]

The post mentions exalted weapons but... please don't forget about Atlas, Khora, and any other frames that benefit off of combo multiplier for their damage. Losing 2-3.5x damage from racking up combo count to make their Landslides, Whipclaws, etc to scale better in higher levels will be a massive nerf to those abilities. 

[kyori]

2 minutes ago, No_Quarter said:

again, math.

Go do your math when you are able to reach and fight enemies beyond level 600.

[DrakeWurrum]

In regards to the new changes to the Arsenal UI - Will we be able to see Heavy Weapon in the Arsenal more easily?

My problem with the Heavy Weapon has always been that it's tied to your regular loadout instead of your Archwing loadout, which meant having to switch over to the Vehicle tab anytime I wanted to change which Heavy Weapon I was equipping... and it honestly was just frustrating and not intuitive. It took me a while to realize that changing Loadouts could also change which Heavy Weapon was equipped, since it wasn't in the same UI element as the rest of my loadout.

[Sliv]

It is nice to see the high damage mods looked at, but...

3 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Condition Overload - Now stacks at a maximum of 3 Status Effects, however damage is being increased from 60% to a higher percent to balance the change. Final % to come. 

...building around some weapons/warframes to get those one or two extra status is part of the fun, when working on loadouts.

The actual formula is the following :
Total Damage = Modded Damage × 1.6ⁿ
It deals so much damage because each status increase the damage multiplier even more (1.6 / 2.56 / 4.1 / 6.55 / 10.5 / ...).

We can make this formula better by doing the following :
Total Damage = Modded Damage × (1 + 0.6 * n)
With this one, values go like this : 1.6 / 2.2 / 2.8 / 3.4 / 4 / ... which is still good while not going overkill. The 0.6 can indeed be changed.

We can also make it a normal damage bonus, instead of an "on top of everything else" bonus. Condition overload would then become an alternative to Pressure point.

Everything else sounds awesome to me, can't wait to test it !

[tekmansam]

I would like to pile on to the lifted/ragdoll/aerial concepts.  Critique:  the physics of the juggling feel off.  I mean, if I am being honest the melee physics as a whole seem immersion breaking to me, as the force feedback comes across as misaligned as bad lip dubbing to old Godzilla films. The juggling physics only highlights this even more.  I can appreciate that this would give some cc options for all frames, especially when faced with more dangerous enemies like Nox, but it just feels out of place in WF as it is currently looking.  The whole aerial melee thing just leaves me asking why?  Who was asking for this?  Where would this actually be useful?  I enjoyed the ragdoll slam effects, and am sort of sad to see them go, but am always open to any nerf as long as it appears to serve the greater good.  Taking away the slam-doll just to serve it back to us in a awkwardly implemented and weakened state as part of another mechanic just feels like a strange move to me.  I don't want to come across as too gripey or ungrateful, but perhaps some sort of compromise can be reached.  I do like how sword and board weapons have their own unique appeal now, but perhaps every class of weapon can be given its own unique "style."  All anyone looks at is crit/status and range when building currently.  You recognize this and are taking steps to fix this.  Much love.  But perhaps every polearm can have its "thing."  Every heavy can have its "thing."  And so on.  Let heavy weapons ragdoll on slam.  Let polearms have their reach.  Let dual swords build combo faster.  Let daggers ignore some armor.  So on and so on.  Just a thought.

[SilverBones]

Seen a few replies concerned about the change of Range Mods to weapons such as the Cassowar. With that in mind, I made the following for you to see how things look side-by-side. PLEASE BEAR (NO PUN INTENDED) IN MIND: That things may yet change. This is how it currently appears in the new Melee system.

THE SETUP:

Cassowar
- Prime Reach 7/10 (120% on Public / +2.9 on Dev Build)
- Stance Mod
- No other Mods or Damage / Range Boosters

 

[(PSN)Ultimaknight]

3 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Covert Lethality - Is being removed from Dagger Weapons and is now being applied to a new system that is shipping alongside Melee Rework: Phase 2 (hint: Parazon).

So is this mod being removed from game or gonna be mode for this "Parazon"?

And if it is removed, will we be compensated?

[Drachnyn]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb [DE]Bear:

Seen a few replies concerned about the change of Range Mods to weapons such as the Cassowar. With that in mind, I made the following for you to see how things look side-by-side.

THE SETUP:

Cassowar
- Prime Reach 7/10 (120% on Public / +2.9 on Dev Build)
- Stance Mod
- No other Mods or Damage / Range Boosters

I would much prefer a demonstration with a max ranged version of primed reach. That presentation could tell us a lot more that way

[xcrimsonlegendx]

I only used amalgam organ shatter on my glaive because it would reduce the time needed to charge my thrown attack, suppose its time to find another mod.

[No_Quarter]

10 minutes ago, kyori said:

Go do your math when you are able to reach and fight enemies beyond level 600.

so:

base damage is higher, each proc will grant higher buff..... yea, math is hard on that one.

also, nearly 5k hours here, no need for prick measuring contest, if you cannot win against lvl 600 by any other way than spamming melee and your proc secondary at it and hugging it and spamming E then you should not fight it. Scaling changes, you are looking at ONE part of the equation and taking it out of context... Sorry, I do not see someone who actually understood how to defeat that high level, but by googling "warframe 2019 meta".

Otherwise you'd knew that more than one mod is responsible for your output. Not to mention that total output on melee is getting buffed af, but that is not in the part of the equation you decided to whine about. God forbid meta slaves will have to change their builds.

So maybe take a look at the whole picture, or, as Steve said, try it before whining....

[tekmansam]

Quote

Just now, (PS4)Ultimaknight said:

And if it is removed, will we be compensated?

As per the devstream we will be given a compensation package with the mainline in the form of a legendary core/forma/etc to make up for any losses we might entail.

 

[SilverBones]

1 minute ago, Drachnyn said:

I would much prefer a demonstration with a max ranged version of primed reach. That presentation could tell us a lot more that way

I didn't have enough Endo on my public account to max rank it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ wanted to keep the test apples to apples though.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

Changes? Good

These changes? Meehh

Condition overload definitely could use a tone-down, but the way it's being executed here is far from ideal. Instead of lowering the amount of procs you allow and raising to percentage, decrease the percentage. Most people only go for 2, 3 or 4 procs anyways, so really you're just buffing condition overload for the button Mashers, while nerfing it for every other strategic player. This change goes against the whole idea of using your entire loadout and just promotes more button mashing. Instead of making it multiplicative, keep it as is and make each buff additive to each other, or just lower the percentage entirely to something like 25% and keep it multiplicative.

As long as the functionality of bloodrush remains the same I see no problem here. The amount of crit might be a little less but with the advent of faster combo counters, this might result in a net zero.

The change to weeping wounds is nigh Criminal. The mod is already use much less than the other combo stacking mods. Leaving it as-is ensures that it will still be used, otherwise, you're killing a mod that didn't need killing. 

Let me just make a note here, these changes will not change the importance of these mods. Every build will still have the mods you see here but they'll just simply be less powerful, so if your goal was to increase variety and builds, this is not the way to go.

[RavingRoman]

I have concerns about the blocking mechanic. As of the current moment. Rhino is the only warframe completely left out of using this feature due to the mechanic working as a damage reduction to health. While Iron Skin seems to come first before that mechanic. Will this new blocking mechanic finally allow them to benefit from blocking along with every other warframe?

[Trojams]

What will happen with Edo prime armor channeling effect when channeling is gone?