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(PC) Empyrean: Railjack Mission and Difficulty Feedback Megathread


SilverBones
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I'd really like it if Cy would tell me about boarders when I'm not on the Railjack. I'm almost always in a 2-man crew with tight communication (even if at night we have to type to do it), so it's not usually a huge issue for us - my brother will either handle it himself or let me know - but I think this may be the source of some frustration for pubs. I've seen a lot of captains complaining that none of their crew return to the ship if it's boarded - but Cy simply doesn't bother to tell them if they're not already on the ship, and I think that might not be known to a lot of people who spend most of their time piloting, so it just looks like people are ignoring the issue (though I'm sure some do ignore or miss a pilot's own warnings).

Even with clear communication with my brother alleviating the problem, this frustrates me a bit. Just because I'm in archwing or boarding a crew ship doesn't mean I don't want to know about the status of our ship. I probably don't necessarily need to know about every ramsled launch if I'm boarding another crewship if spamming us with info that may not be relevant is the concern here, but I definitely, very much want to know about boarders actually making it on.

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I've played my way to the beginning of Veil Proxima and my thoughts are that the mode is certainly fun and different but definitely needs a few quality passes to get it more playable. 

      I want the railjack feel like a tough old battleship that can shrug off the weapons of rank and file fighters and be able to focus on just being a kick ass anti corvette/ anti-capital ship.   Its turrets largely used to kill bigger ships and as a knife disabling weapons and systems on bigger ships for the archwings to board/destroy.   Right now I feel like a clumsier archwing trying to dogfight with fighters when I should be focusing on killing bigger stuff.   My dogfight in the Railjack should be more about avoiding big hits from capital class weapons, torpedoes, and bombers and largely ignore the fighters as static until my shields drop.   Right now the Shields and Hull drop laughably fast between ok to catastrophic breach from any concentrated amount of fire.   Damage is also pretty arbitrary since repairing a single hull breach often takes us from going to die in 30 seconds to Everythings fine in an instant.   Id rather loose health slowly in most cases and panic when something disabled my engines or weapons at a critical moment just before torpedoes hit and did real damage.  Repairs should keep the boat floating and systems in the green long enough to carry out the mission.  Once you've been damaged to the brink you either go up in a ball of flame or retreat to fight another day.   

Crewships should be more of a threat to the railjack while only having antifighter capabilities in brawling range.   It would keep instagibbing poor archwings in the mid to long range to a minimum while making it dangerous to get to close to one without its weapons being disabled or via railjack launch.    Arch-wings should also enjoy a very temporary invincibility leaving ships so they don't get instantly punked while a player is still loading between zones.     

    Archwings in general just need a quality pass.  The Archwing abilities and guns just feel...invisible in Railjack mode and in some cases pretty useless in regular archwing missions as well.  I could barely see the missiles effects of my Odonata missile swarm and its damage was pretty lackluster against anything it actually hit.   Id love to see a swarm of missiles streak from my archwing sail through the aether and blow several fighters to stardust.   Most the the archwing abilities weak in this mode save for the Amesha.  Everyone could use a quality of life pass and a rework to further define their roles and abilities and make them more impressive and visible in the night sky.    

The archwings also need to be able to withstand at least a little bit of gunfire from fighters and suffer more from missiles and larger ordanance.   Grazing fighter weaponry shouldn't kill right away but taking a missile to the face should be a problem.      Their guns need to fire faster projectiles out to the mid range so dogfights feel a little more functional.   Right now you practically have to be parked on the thrusters of an enemy fighter and dump firepower into them to kill them.   Most fighters should fold under short bursts of gunfire.  Bomber types should require a bit more focus and larger ships should be more about disabling their engines and weapons to make them less dangerous to the rail jack and set them up to be punched down by the archwings larger cousin.   My time in an archwing should be a fun time dancing through bullet hell slicing apart fighters while looking for bigger fish to fry instead of having to focus all my attention on not dying long enough to kill a single fighter with more hull points than an Eidolon. 

Just my two cents on how everything feels and what Id want to see out of this mode.  It is still a ton of fun even through its flaws but with better defined rolls and some strong tweeks this could be the best update to Warfame yet.  There's a ton of potential here. 

 

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Am 12.12.2019 um 21:12 schrieb [DE]Bear:

Empyrean: Railjack Mission and Difficulty Feedback Megathread

Use this megathread to post all of your mission-based feedback for Railjack. This can include enemies, the mission mode itself, difficulty level and anything that falls into the mission modes overall.

Please remember to keep your feedback civil, constructive and succinct. It doesn’t help us find issues or know what you enjoy if you do not explain clearly what you do or do not like, why you do or do not like it, and what you would like to see differently if you dislike a system.

Have fun, and let us know what you think!

Pro's:

  1. difficulty of the enemies feels good, i like the small challenge they add because they are tougher and do more damage.
  2. difficulty of the missions is ok aswell, in most public squads i have been part of, coordination was good enough to handle the mission.

Con's:

  1. Skirmish, Skirmish, Skirmish, Skirmish, Skirmish, Skirmish, Skirmish.....add some variation please.
  2. many of the MK3-Weapon Variants which cost alot to build are useless in the Veil or even before, this shouldn't be the case!
  3. Rng over Rng: If you really want random stats on Railjackparts (and Kuva Weapons), at least make sure that we can use all the trash we get which is even worse than what we can get from the Clan-Research to upgrade already owned parts. For example: let us fuse a bad Zekti-Reactor with a good one we already own to increase its stats (with a Cap ofc!). When drop chances are as low as 2%, there is nothing worse then getting unusable trash we can only convert into Dirac.
  4. UI: we need more indicators for rare drops like weapons or avionics, indicators for what the rest of the team is doing(is someone using the slingshot?), what the loadout and weapons of the used Railjack are, some sort of a compass when being a gunner on a sideturret with 360° view and less obstructive effects like the Particel Ram (you can barely see anything when in the Slingshot for example). Selling Avionics is also a mess (at least once i accidently sold a Mod i was using and didnt want to sell) - maybe give us an option to mark certain Avionics as "unsellable"
  5. no individual extraction: this needs to get added.

 

@Shadedraxe and all the others who are saying its way to difficult for a Solo-Player:

Take your time to learn it and come up with strategies, i did missions up to the Veil, if you know what you are doing its more than possible. A few tips:

  1. go after Crewships as soon as you see them!
  2. you can ignore all the small hazards to save ressources and only repair the red hull breaches
  3. DONT PANIC! Got a Hull breach? who cares! you are invincible for 1 minute so you even got time to slingshot over to a Crewship, destroy it and come back to repair your ship. At first i got overwhelmed a bit aswell, but if you know what to focus on, it gets a lot less chaotic.
  4. You dont need many intrinsic points to get to Tactical Rank 4 (Omni to instantly get back to your ship) and Gunnery Rank 3 (Slingshot), get those first and you'll see how easy it can be. After that its probably smart to invest into Engineering, but i guess its up to personal preference after that.

 

Edited by DreisterDino
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Am 29.12.2019 um 18:11 schrieb DreisterDino:

Pro's:

  1. difficulty of the enemies feels good, i like the small challenge they add because they are tougher and do more damage.
  2. difficulty of the missions is ok aswell, in most public squads i have been part of, coordination was good enough to handle the mission.

Con's:

  1. Skirmish, Skirmish, Skirmish, Skirmish, Skirmish, Skirmish, Skirmish.....add some variation please.
  2. many of the MK3-Weapon Variants which cost alot to build are useless in the Veil or even before, this shouldn't be the case!
  3. Rng over Rng: If you really want random stats on Railjackparts (and Kuva Weapons), at least make sure that we can use all the trash we get which is even worse than what we can get from the Clan-Research to upgrade already owned parts. For example: let us fuse a bad Zekti-Reactor with a good one we already own to increase its stats (with a Cap ofc!). When drop chances are as low as 2%, there is nothing worse then getting unusable trash we can only convert into Dirac.
  4. UI: we need more indicators for rare drops like weapons or avionics, indicators for what the rest of the team is doing(is someone using the slingshot?), what the loadout and weapons of the used Railjack are, some sort of a compass when being a gunner on a sideturret with 360° view and less obstructive effects like the Particel Ram (you can barely see anything when in the Slingshot for example). Selling Avionics is also a mess (at least once i accidently sold a Mod i was using and didnt want to sell) - maybe give us an option to mark certain Avionics as "unsellable"
  5. no individual extraction: this needs to get added.

 

basically that especially con number 3. let's be real. screw the rng with the damn random stats. this is getting out of hand.

give everything fixed stats. why did DE even start with the rng stats? this is bullcrap. they make the grind worse by trying to hook players for a longer time but this is far too much.

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hace 1 hora, Hiirios dijo:

basically that especially con number 3. let's be real. screw the rng with the damn random stats. this is getting out of hand.

give everything fixed stats. why did DE even start with the rng stats? this is bullcrap. they make the grind worse by trying to hook players for a longer time but this is far too much.

yeah i got a vidar reactor mk3 with 40 avionic capacity, im pretty pissed off, just 2% and is worse than a dojo reactor. The min capacity needs to be fixed to 60-70, this is not rewarding at all

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5 hours ago, Pitvh said:

yeah i got a vidar reactor mk3 with 40 avionic capacity, im pretty pissed off, just 2% and is worse than a dojo reactor. The min capacity needs to be fixed to 60-70, this is not rewarding at all

i had 2 one was 34 other one was 36 

so ill keep using my zekti 47 that has a max roll of 50 that the same as the dojo one. linking capacity to a rng drop isnt fun it's like saying a warframe has random mod capacity.

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On 2019-12-29 at 12:11 PM, DreisterDino said:

Pro's:

  1. difficulty of the enemies feels good, i like the small challenge they add because they are tougher and do more damage.

 

I was going to ask if anyone else noticed this, but seeing your post confirms it. I was wondering why some of my weapons that have zero problems in derelict survival missions felt slightly nerfed when dealing with boarding parties. In case anyone was wondering, I am running an endgame build on Tiberon Prime. 🙂

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Having a bit more time with the missions in the Veil now...

With a fully geared railjack, I'm not actually finding the space side of things that hard, even on my own, especially now I have figured things out... but there is one main source of contention with the difficulty either in a group or my own...

I'm not sure which Grinner trooper it is, all I know is I hear the firing of a fully automatic weapon, this particular enemy will pretty much kill you almost instantly if they get their sights on you, be you on a squishy frame like Ivara or Mag or a tanky one like Rhino or Hildrynn... This generally isn't as big of an issue if you can identity the enemy early and get around them... but it's a major issue if one or more of them are at the entrance/player spawn point on a Crewship or Station, as usually by the time the animation for the warframe has concluded once you load in, you are more often than not already dead. Even when you don't encounter this particular enemy at the spawn point, running across them in a corridor can equally be deadly. I dunno if it is a bug or not, but if it isn't it really needs to be toned down slightly, having instant kill trash mobs isn't fun.

Equally another problem encountered but I'm unsure if this too is a bug, is when you exit a crewship or station, like entering both places, upon exiting you can equally be dead by the time the animation on re-entering space has concluded, you simply have no chance to respond...

Aside this point about exiting and entering crewships and stations, now I have a fully geared railjack with MK3 items, I'm not finding Veil Proxima that difficult. well not unless I bite off more than i can chew and try to take on three or four crewships solo simultaneously!

Edited by Skye_Archer
typo
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Am 31.12.2019 um 10:21 schrieb b4timert:

i had 2 one was 34 other one was 36 

the only two i got were 33 (30 is the lowest roll possible FML) and 54 which is still extremly bad especially when the max is 100

Edited by Hiirios
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Railjack: Is it fun?
In a word? No.
Railjack: Is it needlessly grindy?
In a word? Yes.

Now, that said, Warframe is a grind game. This is something that many of us have come to love and accept over the years. This is a fact of the game. However, forcing players to play in teams with boring gameplay is kind of like a slap in the face. Trying to get your Railjack to the point where you don't spend 45 minutes trying to clear out ships is such a shock to the system from the normal gameplay that it's something, that after a while, I just don't want to do. 

When DE debuted the gameplay loop of Railjack at Tennocon 2 years ago, it was so exciting it got my pulse pounding! I was 100% onboard! Your Railjack picking you up from Venus, you blow ships out of the sky, hop on your Archwing and jet over to an enemy frigate, take out the captain and blowing out of the sky sounds cool, right?! Yup. Nope. It is nowhere NEAR that exciting. One maybe two crew members spend most of the mission putting out fires and sealing hull breaches. Yay. Boarding mostly empty asteroids to expose radiators. Yay. Grinding for ship parts is the WORST because not only are they reliant on RNG, but the number of resources you need is ridiculous!!

So how do we fix it?

1. A shipyard with a grizzled old yard master where you can go to purchase parts or blueprints with credits and then have to go out and farm resources to repair or build.
2. Make the resource farm like the regular star map (go hear to get these resources).
3. Make open areas where you can mine for rare resources.
4. Being able to recruit NPC's to run the ship NOW from the various factions throughout the system.
5. Ship-to-ship combat with enemy frigates while being taunted by captains of those ships.
6. Buff the Archwings!! Right now, there is ONE Archwing that makes the space combat even bearable. What's the point of having more than one Archwing if there's only one that supplies the meta?
7. BETTER WEAPONS. Most of the ship-mounted weapons are GARBAGE. There are only one or two that get the job done. With up to 90 enemy fighters out there, it's a real chore to shoot them down. Having to go out in an Archwing instead of being able to just kill them from the ship is trash-tier.
8. Story missions!! As a Star Wars, Star Trek, and Mass Effect fan, story missions would go a LONG WAY to making me feel like there is a reason to even play this game mode. Why are we doing this again?

These are just a few of my thoughts. Content creators have half-hour or more videos that will highlight more of the issues. I hope this gets fixed in the meantime. 

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End reward drop is terrible especially when it comes to the reactor.
Very drop chance, very big range of stats end to end. Why is it I dropped maybe 5 Vidar reactors after HUNDREDS of missions and they are WORSE then my Zekti one?
If its a Tier 3 reactor in no way the lower end stats be lower then T1 reactor.

Now I understand that this mechanic of random stat is a new one, so I do have a suggestion. Why not use the Dirac that we accumulated so fast to be used to roll our reactors stats to a point. I have already 250k Dirac that I don't have nothing to use on.

More so...

RJ "Refine" bottom doesn't server any real porpoise.
Yes, I understand you can only use 200 of your resources at mission, and yes, I understand you gather more resources beyond the cap level you see. And yet same action can be achieved automatically by docking RJ in the Dojo. And if you say "But I need to leave *what ever reason* " and refine you are rubbing an opportunity for the crew members to continue to the next mission fully stocked.

However "Refine" button can fix a different problem we currently have in mission and its sharing resources between players.
Sharing resources in mission might be a problem right now cause of different instances it generate in mission, but what if we could simply bank the resources from instances.
For example, right now no resources shared between players in the base and players in space. You could say that players in base can gather resources separately and bank into the "forge" once you on RJ. That way other members of the team can focus on performing other task knowing loot will be shared at the end of the mission.
Activity log should be kept running during this time to read what resources been pick up in case of hots migration happens, and if a player disconnects a "bag" of loot will drop that a different player would pick up and bring it to the ship.
This mechanic can all so open opportunity for new mission mechanics like a "heist" etc.

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The early experiance and progression is really bad, you basically have to rely on a full AW squad or already have some MK II or III gear to enjoy the later missions on earth. I tried the natural progression and farmed the first 3 missions on earth to get MK I gear. My railjack has a MK I reactor, MK I engine, MK I Vidar Carcinox and MK I Vidar Apoc and struggles with lvl 15+ fighters.

I was lucky enough to find the Zetki Bulkhead so my RJ does not get vaporized while trying to gun the fighters down but I generally do not enjoy the later earth missions although I have the best possible gear that can be aquired there.

 

Edited by (PS4)de_sch0sch
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English is not my main language but i try my best.

To begin i always played with at least 2 Friends.
besides the bugs it was a great experience.
It was tough sometimes, and we failed some missions from time to time. but is was Great ! to have enemy you can not One Shot.
have to TALK to your team mates and work together it realy feels like a coop Game again !

What i dont like, I have no Problem with random stat,s but the Repair cost is to much, my suggestion have much less repair cost for the Parts so it dont feels like a Punishment if you get a better parts.

my second problem with Railjack is, it should be something that brings all aspects of the game together, but it feels more like a POE in Space,

My third problem, you have to be in a clan to get a Railjack, my suggestion make the Dry dock in a Relay not a Dojo and introduce new players early on to Railjack and pls. give them a Tutorial !

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En 1/1/2020 a las 8:17, Skye_Archer dijo:

Having a bit more time with the missions in the Veil now...

With a fully geared railjack, I'm not actually finding the space side of things that hard, even on my own, especially now I have figured things out... but there is one main source of contention with the difficulty either in a group or my own...

I'm not sure which Grinner trooper it is, all I know is I hear the firing of a fully automatic weapon, this particular enemy will pretty much kill you almost instantly if they get their sights on you, be you on a squishy frame like Ivara or Mag or a tanky one like Rhino or Hildrynn... This generally isn't as big of an issue if you can identity the enemy early and get around them... but it's a major issue if one or more of them are at the entrance/player spawn point on a Crewship or Station, as usually by the time the animation for the warframe has concluded once you load in, you are more often than not already dead. Even when you don't encounter this particular enemy at the spawn point, running across them in a corridor can equally be deadly. I dunno if it is a bug or not, but if it isn't it really needs to be toned down slightly, having instant kill trash mobs isn't fun.

Equally another problem encountered but I'm unsure if this too is a bug, is when you exit a crewship or station, like entering both places, upon exiting you can equally be dead by the time the animation on re-entering space has concluded, you simply have no chance to respond...

Aside this point about exiting and entering crewships and stations, now I have a fully geared railjack with MK3 items, I'm not finding Veil Proxima that difficult. well not unless I bite off more than i can chew and try to take on three or four crewships solo simultaneously!

The Exo Eviscerator has what it seems to be an endgame twin grakatas and most of the time will 1-3 shot you. Out of jokes, Reb said that railjack enemies have and yes the have a different way of scaling in all aspects, more life, armor and damage that's why a level 100 kosma lancer feels like a napalm of the same level.

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Things that are in the end of mission drop tables, with a focus on veil proxima;

Vidar components, the top tier, or 'best in slot' if you will, at 2% drop chance. 

2 Chances at a bundle of dirac, when we already get tonnes of useless to scrap because the only stuff worth keeping is the stuff that never drops.

Loads of neo relics, why? Something less "every time i level in hydron" for the drop table please.

Riven slivers is not too bad at x3 of them, for a common-ish reward. This is using one's head.

 

Things that should be in the end of mission drop tables, but are not;

Umbral forma, instead of the normal forma that is present.

 

Why is there so little adequate reward in the drop tables for something that high in level? Why is umbral forma in 1:3700 spawn chance rare caches inside 2-3 hour time gated sentient anomaly ships at a low % drop chance? 

I've been farming since just about day 1 of RJ on console, and i can say safely that i've stagnated in veil proxima, trying desperately to farm a vidar reactor and a void hole avionic because that's just about the final thing i even need from RJ at this time. There's no umbral forma, realistically speaking, to farm. There's relics and forma bp's that i can get from any node and any fissure on the board in 1/8 of the time. There's very little motivation at this point to continue in RJ, especially if i obtain these 2 items. 

Tl;dr: Reward vs effort is not adequately balanced. Give us a real reason to want to get out there and farm the hell out of RJ because right now it's not there.

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Reposting here, because I havent noticed this megathread before:

Railjack needs an exit:

Pretty much every mission in WF has an exit in it so you can leave at major checkpoints (every 5 waves in defense, every 5 mins in survival etc.) and so you arent stuck in the mission until everyone else goes too. Railjack missions dont seem to have any exit in them, so if you join a random party and they decide to hang around until next year, you cant do anything about it except for AFK till theyre done or abort mission and lose everything you got. I dont know how the missions really work but man that was some very uncomfortable situation I got myself into when farming resources for my own railjack in a random party on first Earth mission. Basically weve completed the mission but the squad kept freeroaming or whatever (no enemies), farming more materials. Fortunately after some time the squad found me incredibly annoying so they let me go (by finishing the mission officially), but some people may not be so lucky. This needs a fix ASAP.

Edited by MaxTunnerX
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This may have been said before by others, but the final Hotfix where Crewship's main missile battery no longer homes in on Archwings doesn't solve its one-shot potential. It's the Crewship's side flak cannons, exploding in proximity and the fact that both gunners are able to fire at you can rip apart any Archwing even the Amesha if you're not careful.

Again, I implore you that most of what the Railjack has and Archwings/Archguns are underperforming in Empyrean, which forces us to use more viable options such as the Amesha, Cryophons, Particle Ram, etc. Please look into buffing our equipment rather than leaving it as it is or worse, nerfing the viable options. 

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Why are all missions 'Skirmish'?

Levels with Galleons/Turbines/Docks/Derelicts should not have ship-kill-count objectives and should spawn fewer ships in general.

90 fighters/6 crewships should be an absolute maximum only seen in pure Exterminate missions.

90 fighters + 6 crewships + objective + galleon takes ages and the fighters become a boring grind.

Difficulty is a mess:

All archwings should be able to survive, not just the one invulnerable one. 

Archwing weapons should be able to kill fighters in reasonable time.

T3 railjack guns with maxed out Hyperstrike should be able to quickly kill basic veil fighters (one shot with Cryophons, 5-6 shots with Apoc, etc), currently that's the minimum to even scratch enemy fighters.

100 flux battle avionics should be viable at all levels (woo, look at those 50 missiles fill the skies with explosions - wait, that didn't kill a single fighter? There were only 4 of them!)

T1 weapons should work on Earth, T2 on Saturn, T3 in the Veil.

Dome charges are useless after Earth. They need to be able to one shot crewships, especially as you start with fewer shots than there are crewships you have to kill. I realise there is an avionic that can help with that, but it's almost never worth using because capacity is such a precious resource.

Mission rewards suck. 2% chance of the only good reactor which in turn only has about a 5% chance of having high capacity. 300 Dirac? Cheers, but I've maxed everything and can't put any more avionics in thanks to the pathetic chance of a decent reactor. I get 225 Dirac for every garbage wreckage that drops, and I have loads of them.

It should either be possible to scrap wreckage between missions or have a much higher cap. I can't risk auto-scrapping that good reactor should it ever drop just because loads of poor roll Zekti Pulsars dropped during the mission. Retuning to dry dock ends most sessions, as most teams will not wait around for you to scrap 15 wreckages.

Sometimes crewships stop spawning and you have to abort from an un-completable 5/6 crewships, 90/90 fighters, whatever objectives because that last crewship never spawned.

Captain (not crew) should be able to exit early with everything gathered so far but no mission rewards. Doing so takes the whole crew to the dry dock, not host migration with a now broken railjack.

It should be possible to wait for a team.

When loaded in to a mission no enemies should attack until you move the railjack, exit, fire weapons or use battle avionics.

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The exo enemies is so overturned their level makes no sense i can understand that some variant's is stronger than other but the level should give a power power range to expect of them

it feel like im killing level 200+(HP) star chart grineer maybe even higher that hit as hard as level 150+.

Just make them level 150+ and reduce their armor and damage. 

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Did like 100+ sentient anomaly missions in Veil proxima till now, haven't found any red crate yet....only found a yellow one once tho...DE should change the grind mechanics for this ephemera: 

1. Make the sentient ship stay forever/permanent and not time gated

2. Make the duration more than 30 mins or reduce the 3 hrs gap to 1 hr

3. Make a mini sentient boss inside the sentient ship and make the ephemera as a 5% or 10% drop

4. Make this ephemera available in next NW series 3 or a special alert

5. Let those rare yellow and red crates spawn even in Lua tilesets, or make a new small node on Lua which can spawn those rare crates...

Please DE, do any of the above things to lessen the tiresome grind..its insane...Too many RNG layers have made the grind even worse...

Please Change this grind or make the ephemera available through other means

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17 minutes ago, EzioTheEagle said:

Did like 100+ sentient anomaly missions in Veil proxima till now, haven't found any red crate yet....only found a yellow one once tho...DE should change the grind mechanics for this ephemera: 

1. Make the sentient ship stay forever/permanent and not time gated

2. Make the duration more than 30 mins or reduce the 3 hrs gap to 1 hr

3. Make a mini sentient boss inside the sentient ship and make the ephemera as a 5% or 10% drop

4. Make this ephemera available in next NW series 3 or a special alert

5. Let those rare yellow and red crates spawn even in Lua tilesets, or make a new small node on Lua which can spawn those rare crates...

Please DE, do any of the above things to lessen the tiresome grind..its insane...Too many RNG layers have made the grind even worse...

Please Change this grind or make the ephemera available through other means

wow....... you even posted this thread spamed message here too.
i understand you hate the rng of the rng for a cosmetic but your not helping anyone by doing this

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