How do people feel about Liches now with changes in the works?

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

I think the changes sound great but I think a lot of damage was already done. I stopped doing everything but signing in for the login bonus, I'll probably get out of that habit too but I'm a bit disillusioned when it comes to this game now. I think it was a huge mistake for the whole Lich thing to happen and then the problems with railjack shortly after that because I lost my drive to play. Don't know if other people are going through the same thing or if it's just me.

Last thing bothering me about kuva weapons is the mastery. You have to put so much forma into a weapon you might not even like to add to a needless grind that I rolled my eyes and it just helped me move onto new games. Just feels weird to have someone pour so much resources into something they might despise before they can drop it completely. 

 

[Ham_Grenabe]

The forma thing is an issue, I agree. The weapons should just rank to 40 and be done with it. But in fairness -- you're not required to do the ones you hate. I'm not putting 4 forma into the Tonkor or the Kraken or the Drakgoon, because the payoff isn't worth using the weapons.

I figure if there's one thing that's guaranteed in this game, it's that there will be new weapons and frames to master. They will always make other stuff to rank up, because that's what makes money. 

Edited February 2, 2020 by Ham_Grenabe

[SneakyErvin]

3 hours ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

Honestly, if level 5 is hard to kill, the kuva lich system is not meant for your current gear. I find level 5 to be easy.

I think he is very much in the right gear. It is just that alot of us are so overgeared it is silly. DE said it was going to be difficult or challenging, so if someone finds rank 5 liches challenging solo I guess they are in the right part of the progression DE balanced it around.

[Kaotyke]

3 hours ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

Honestly, if level 5 is hard to kill, the kuva lich system is not meant for your current gear. I find level 5 to be easy.

Dude, you just need to get the WROST possible combination.

A Lich with Resistence to Corrosive, Heat and Puncture. That was one of mine once. It took the whole damn team that was geared to kill a Rank 5 Lich around 10 minutes to destroy 1 bar.

Sure, I think they had a Corrosive setup, but the Viral+Rad Lanka and a Rad+Viral Catchmoon I had was doing jack to it. Even though it had weakness to Viral.

Imagine if it has Immunity to Corrosive, Heat and Puncture instead?

Its Wolf levels of armor.

[Gentleman_Bird]

The reward structure is much better, but the core gameplay loop is still boring. I might farm the bow, but I'm gonna wait for more changes before getting deep into it.

[xcrimsonlegendx]

They look better now than they have since release but I'm still disappointed how stripped down they are from what was promised.

[Ham_Grenabe]

1 hour ago, Kaotyke said:

Dude, you just need to get the WROST possible combination.

A Lich with Resistence to Corrosive, Heat and Puncture. That was one of mine once. It took the whole damn team that was geared to kill a Rank 5 Lich around 10 minutes to destroy 1 bar.

Sure, I think they had a Corrosive setup, but the Viral+Rad Lanka and a Rad+Viral Catchmoon I had was doing jack to it. Even though it had weakness to Viral.

Imagine if it has Immunity to Corrosive, Heat and Puncture instead?

Its Wolf levels of armor.

Yeah, couple that with a lich who has Iron Skin, and you might as well just hang up your guns. 

Edited February 2, 2020 by Ham_Grenabe

[DrivaMain]

Definitely accepting the changes, but I will not actively farm those liches until they address the murmur grind. Killing over 180 uncommon enemies and you can't passively do it because they can't spawn in fissures and Railjack missions is too tedious for me.

 

[T.Hoagie]

I'm liking what I'm seeing, but I'll give it a proper opinion when its actually out and I create a new Lich.

I certainly like the fact that they removed that stupid death for failing to GUESS a requiem mod, I mean if they were gonna keep that the least they could have done was give it more of a show to justify it.

Okay, hear me out, you stab the Lich and it's the wrong Req mod, The Liches Kuva heart/Core goes into overdrive and super charges it, it gets up laughing at you or whatever and THEN lifts you up, you struggle and it breaks your back. This would have been the show needed to make that death acceptable even though death because of RNG Guess work is idiotic IMO. They just didn't play it up enough.

However switching up to the Lich getting up and laughing at you, also works, cause it adds to the whole feel of having a Nemesis. Nothing annoyed me more in Shadow of Mordor/War, then when an Ork pulled some crap, laughed at me and ran off. It made me want to hunt them down all the harder for it.

Now if they would just reduce the murmur numbers down some, and remove the Req mod decay, I'll be really happy.

[dEjAvU5566]

Phase 2 changes are ok, but as long as DE keeps this “long term nemesis” bs mindset, some ppl like me will not satisfied.

What happen to the “reduce grinding”? Does hours of murmur grinding look like reduction to them?

[DogsConkers]

The ptsd caused by farming Liches and Ephemeras at launch has ensured I'll never enjoy doing them no matter how much easier it becomes. Still waiting for my beta tester medal for helping future players have a better experience.

I jest of course because such is the life of a hungry Warframe addict. Keep that new content coming DE but please go a bit easier on us next time.

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

I still can't figure out why we have to dump 5 forma into them with no benefit for achieving ranks 31-40. At least the Paracesis provides a sentient damage bonus. It's like someone at DE was trying to make the grind worse for no planned reason.

[DoomFruit]

6 hours ago, T.Hoagie said:

I'm liking what I'm seeing, but I'll give it a proper opinion when its actually out and I create a new Lich.

I certainly like the fact that they removed that stupid death for failing to GUESS a requiem mod, I mean if they were gonna keep that the least they could have done was give it more of a show to justify it.

Okay, hear me out, you stab the Lich and it's the wrong Req mod, The Liches Kuva heart/Core goes into overdrive and super charges it, it gets up laughing at you or whatever and THEN lifts you up, you struggle and it breaks your back. This would have been the show needed to make that death acceptable even though death because of RNG Guess work is idiotic IMO. They just didn't play it up enough.

However switching up to the Lich getting up and laughing at you, also works, cause it adds to the whole feel of having a Nemesis. Nothing annoyed me more in Shadow of Mordor/War, then when an Ork pulled some crap, laughed at me and ran off. It made me want to hunt them down all the harder for it.

Now if they would just reduce the murmur numbers down some, and remove the Req mod decay, I'll be really happy.

Honestly, I'd like it much better if they actually were liches. As in: you kill them, they "die", and then they get back up again afterwards. And they continue to rise from the grave until you find and smash their soul vial (or in this case, speak the right magic incantation). If it's not going to have any lich-like characteristics, why is it even called a lich in the first place?

[Currilicious]

I am not a fan of grinding something non-stop. I prefer taking my time doing this and that. The fact that liches steal your sh!t if you don't take care of them quickly makes it less attractive to me. So I am still not convinced to give it another go.

[vegetosayajin]

I am happy to finally be able to farm the onese I want and upgrade the element I want, no relying on sh1t rng.
I gave up liches when my 3 seer dropped.I never got the weapons I really wanted, not to mention the element value. 

[SneakyErvin]

12 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

Definitely accepting the changes, but I will not actively farm those liches until they address the murmur grind. Killing over 180 uncommon enemies and you can't passively do it because they can't spawn in fissures and Railjack missions is too tedious for me.

 

I'm fairly OK with the murmur grind after the changes because we'll get something far better than a reduced grind, we get the option to skip weapons we dont look for by just running some quick adaro over and over. I'll take that any day over a reduced murmur grind. I dont mind spending 60-120 minutes, depending on my mod RNG, getting a weapon I really want. The chance to see the weapon on the larva pre-lichification will probably reduce the grind per weapon several times over.

edit: Also we dont know what the lich introduction into RJ will result in either. Destroying their ship or similar may perhaps grant us large amounts of extra murmur's or something better.

Edited February 3, 2020 by SneakyErvin

[Jarriaga]

I feel very happy. I now have a reason to continue to farm them. I can look forward to progressing the system in a way that feels fair.

On the other hand, I wish the failed stabbing doesn't result in the Lich just leaving. I'd like it more if it "died" but then revives. Sure it's the same outcome as it just leaving, but at least it would be closer to their original design as pitched in TC19 (Coming back from the dead over and over again).

Murmur grind still needs a revision though. They mentioned no changes, so I'll assume it's still 30/30/70. That's still a lot. More so considering how boring the process itself is.

Edited February 3, 2020 by Jarriaga

[844448]

6 hours ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

I still can't figure out why we have to dump 5 forma into them with no benefit for achieving ranks 31-40. At least the Paracesis provides a sentient damage bonus. It's like someone at DE was trying to make the grind worse for no planned reason.

With 40 capacity and 5 polarities, catalyst may be unnecessary which is good for me since I'm running low on blue potato

[844448]

1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

On the other hand, I wish the failed stabbing doesn't result in the Lich just leaving. I'd like it more if it "died" but then revives. Sure it's the same outcome as it just leaving, but at least it would be closer to their original design as pitched in TC19 (Coming back from the dead over and over again).

 

4 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

Honestly, I'd like it much better if they actually were liches. As in: you kill them, they "die", and then they get back up again afterwards. And they continue to rise from the grave until you find and smash their soul vial (or in this case, speak the right magic incantation). If it's not going to have any lich-like characteristics, why is it even called a lich in the first place?

They shouldn't die over and over, they should die if they are killed and only once

Sorry, I just have to

[Educated_Beast]

Please post a link to proposed changes.  I never have time to watch devstreams.  

[DoomFruit]

10 minutes ago, Educated_Beast said:

Please post a link to proposed changes.  I never have time to watch devstreams.  

 

[Jarriaga]

9 minutes ago, Educated_Beast said:

Please post a link to proposed changes.  I never have time to watch devstreams.  

- You no longer die if you use the wrong Requiem mods. Lich just leaves.

- You get to see the weapon the Lich will have while in Larving stage before you create the Lich, so you can choose to let it die and try again without committing to the full loop if it doesn't have a weapon you want.

- Valence Transfer is being upgraded into Valence Fusion. You can now increase the weapon's damage bonus even when using weaker Kuva variants. You no longer need to roll a stronger version.

- When converted, they last longer and deal more damage and now cast all their abilities as allies.

That's pretty much it (For now).

[Educated_Beast]

1 minute ago, Jarriaga said:

- You no longer die if you use the wrong Requiem mods. Lich just leaves.

- You get to see the weapon the Lich will have while in Larving stage before you create the Lich, so you can choose to let it die and try again without committing to the full loop if it doesn't have a weapon you want.

- Valence Transfer is being upgraded into Valence Fusion. You can now increase the weapon's damage bonus even when using weaker Kuva variants. You no longer need to roll a stronger version.

- When converted, they last longer and deal more damage and now cast all their abilities as allies.

That's pretty much it (For now).

 

3 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

 

Thank you. 

 

All of this would be perfect if they also gave us thrall death squads and the occasional lich attacking you like stalker.  

A hunter needs to hunt.  Otherwise, change all thier dialog to being prey.  "I am the prey, you are the hunter, got it?"

[IIDMOII]

Yeah I'll try again now that we will be able to see the weapon stats on the larvaling before committing to grind hell. 

They didn't really solve the murmur problem though. It will still be an unrewarding slog.

The issue with this sort of fix though is that we will now be encouraged to hunt larvalings and immediately abandon mission if it's a bad roll. Rinse repeat. 

Still a poorly conceived piece of content. As someone else already mentioned, it's a weapon grind and NOT any kind of meaningful nemesis system. The kuva weapons could easily be shoehorned into any other content loop as a reward.

 

[Ham_Grenabe]

15 minutes ago, IIDMOII said:

Yeah I'll try again now that we will be able to see the weapon stats on the larvaling before committing to grind hell. 

 

 

As far as I know, you just see the weapon - not the bonus (did that change?)

It's just that any bonus can improve an existing weapon, at least a little bit.

Edited February 3, 2020 by Ham_Grenabe