What is this game to you? Constructive Criticism for DE

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

Just now, (XB1)Hyperion Rexx said:

To be fair, those financials are for leyou,  not de.

Leyou are the parent company who now own many other  companies.   We don't know what the figures are for de.

http://leyoutech.com.hk/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/2019-Inteirm-en.pdf

Actually we do. It's public information.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Hyperion Rexx said:

those financials

Profit warning https://ibb.co/HY7dpRy

[White_Matter]

Yeah I've seen hotfixes launched within 5 minutes of the release. But then in those days DE actually released decent updates.

[OniDax]

So glad people's eyes are finally opening to how DE operates. The only way DE actually improves as a company is if the community holds them accountable and pushes them to be better. This community has to stop praising DE for already being perfect (they aren't) and needs to start pushing them to make changes so that they can get closer to that perfect mark.

[(NSW)Greybones]

god. The more I read those papers the more my stomach wants to vomit itself up. I can’t stand business talk, even if it’s worth looking through

[Helch0rn]

3 hours ago, Leyers_of_facade said:

nope, you are not understanding it correctly. Gross profit that was mentioned there is actually "revenue". Their actual profit is -6m (so a 6mil loss), the calculations can be seen here

well I have been proven wrong.

but that makes me ask why did they label it gross profit? profit (at least for me) is what's left over after you deduct all of the costs.

someone with knowledge of this economics stuff please enlighten me.

[(XBOX)Hyperion Rexx]

8 minutes ago, (XB1)YoungGunn82 said:

http://leyoutech.com.hk/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/2019-Inteirm-en.pdf

Actually we do. It's public information.

I can't see any financials in that document that deal with de specifically.  All the figures are for leyou, the parent company.

Only mention of de was saying revenue increased by 1.something % over the same period the previous year.

If, im wrong, tell me the page it details de's accounts as I'd be interested to have a look.

[Nasrol]

22 minutes ago, (XB1)YoungGunn82 said:

Profit warning https://ibb.co/HY7dpRy

Damn thats interesting info and sad news. So from the end of 2018 they (Leyou) made US $20.4 mil profit. But in the space of one year (end of 2019), that changed to an expected lose of US $4-8 mil. With one of the reasons given explicity stating a decrease in revenues of the group was due to fewer content update releases of their flagship product Warframe during the year... That does explain why we are get more buggy releases these days, if they are under pressure to get things out.

Edited March 26, 2020 by Nasrol

[Circle_of_Psi]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Very important step to listening to the other side; no more straw people. That goes for both sides, yeah? Or all three sides. Or any sides in between. And especially for me, personally.

You would not believe how many times I had to stop myself from building up a straw person to knock down. Not even sure if I always did the job.

I see the negative posts made, and most of them (once you pick through the emotions) have points to make. What you say about listening to the other side resonates with me. Though I will not abide pure abuse.

It is fact that we are more nuanced than one or two posts, even if we might think the other side is out to tear us down. We all just want to be heard, and I blame the reputation of online communication for starting all of us on the wrong foot before we even say anything.

Asked in curiosity; What’s odd about Greybones? I’m not familiar with terms that could be considered not-okay for the filters that would also apply to my name

Also yes, I got the umbrella joke 😛 

Indeed, but I have to agree, although myself I can't no longer bring myself to defend such anymore, I'll be highly likey not playing (besides helping friends, who really need it) until things are settled down, cuz this event is just terrible and not worth the grind or time, let alone the awfulness of RJ as a whole. This whole thing with Profit only proves that way high.

But yes, about Greybones, not the name itself, but due to if you remove R and E, well...you see my point, same reason why we can't have our guns with anything "ball" inside, even if, it's part of a weapon itself or a name. But yey, you got the joke! 😄

 

[Corvid]

Considering that there is literally zero precedent for such an assertion, I'm going to just label this as DEmonising.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

22 minutes ago, (XB1)Hyperion Rexx said:

I can't see any financials in that document that deal with de specifically.  All the figures are for leyou, the parent company.

Only mention of de was saying revenue increased by 1.something % over the same period the previous year.

If, im wrong, tell me the page it details de's accounts as I'd be interested to have a look.

http://asia.blob.euroland.com/press-releases-attachments/1203571/HKEX-EPS_20200325_9203152-0.PDF

Page 34

32 minutes ago, (XB1)YoungGunn82 said:

Profit warning https://ibb.co/HY7dpRy

Profit warning here. 

[Circle_of_Psi]

46 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

You know this. If the Operation were bugged in the other direction, and instead of screwing players out of the credit rewards which the Op is balanced around, missions were accidentally awarding three times as much credit, DE would have either fixed it by now, or pulled the plug on the entire Operation until they had it fixed.

Yeah, I'm not srupised at this point, hell even I'm shocked that, this is a srupise to anyone.  

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

8 minutes ago, Corvid said:

Considering that there is literally zero precedent for such an assertion, I'm going to just label this as DEmonising.

You can go to Leyou web site and look for yourself. It's public info. Also a bunch of sources in this thread 

 

Edited March 26, 2020 by (XB1)YoungGunn82

[(PSN)Scarletboy76292]

How did this post become a meaningless boring accounting meeting? 😑 "What does warframe mean to you? " = Accounts Receivable???? 

[3rdpig]

Simple solution, don't play their event. Or even better, only play the Murex missions with a Limbo. When everyone stops playing ground missions then someone at DE eventually will notice and some changes will be made. But of course, like the dog in the burning cafe, Reb and Meg will play it on Primetime on the dev server and tell us how great it is. And then they'll nerf whatever weapon we're using the most.

[Methanoid]

1 hour ago, (XB1)YoungGunn82 said:

Probably just another reason behind many others as to why DE recorded a loss of -$6.4 million last year. 

Sauce: http://leyoutech.com.hk/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/2019-Inteirm-en.pdf

to be honest, would they really care at this point? they already got their up front capital from leyou tech with a paltry amount of income from players going to them and the majority going to the company owners, there isnt exactly masive incentive to do well at this point, muddles the mind why only recently they would decide to throw their previous good reputation into the toilet with bethesda like additions to the game, those additions arent even what makes money, their prime packs and numptys throwing thousands of plat at rivens is what bags the big money, so i cant really understand the dire quality of recent content releases.

[TwistedLogic81]

7 minutes ago, 3rdpig said:

Simple solution, don't play their event. Or even better, only play the Murex missions with a Limbo. When everyone stops playing ground missions then someone at DE eventually will notice and some changes will be made. But of course, like the dog in the burning cafe, Reb and Meg will play it on Primetime on the dev server and tell us how great it is. And then they'll nerf whatever weapon we're using the most.

I just hope they do the space mission and dont get any codes sent to them. 

[Methanoid]

6 hours ago, Flyshlee said:

I'm just on board of the meme train as you, but one year of relatively lower profits doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things. 

it typically does when the word "shareholders" is involved,

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Hyperion Rexx said:

To be fair, those financials are for leyou,  not de.

Leyou are the parent company who now own many other  companies.   We don't know what the figures are for de.

 

1 hour ago, (XB1)YoungGunn82 said:

http://leyoutech.com.hk/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/2019-Inteirm-en.pdf

Actually we do. It's public information.

OK so let's do some more speculation and see which hypothesis holds more water

Dum de dum...

OK so Leyou owns Digital Extremes, Kingmaker, Radiance Games, Athlon Games, and Splash Damage. That... that last name fills me with dread... though after some research it turns out they made the successful Halo remaster last year and I might be confusing their failures with those of Boss Key Productions

Well what else? Let's see, "In August 2019, Athlon Games [owned by Leyou] became shareholder and publishing partner of LCG Entertainment, which acquired the assets of defunct studio Telltale Games." Oh... oh ho ho, nooooo, yeah I can see how spending a lot of money on Telltale the month before it went bankrupt... could really eat into a parent company's profits for the year

[DragoonStorm1]

41 minutes ago, TwistedLogic81 said:

I just hope they do the space mission and dont get any codes sent to them. 

this is happening even with twice the number of ground squads to space squads

codes are just not going through, and space squads are giving up and the flotilla doesnt hit 100/100 smh


;~;

[(XBOX)Hyperion Rexx]

1 hour ago, (XB1)YoungGunn82 said:

http://asia.blob.euroland.com/press-releases-attachments/1203571/HKEX-EPS_20200325_9203152-0.PDF

Page 34

Profit warning here. 

So, from looking at these accounts for Leyou, not de, the following should be noted.....

Group revenue was down by 12ish%, mainly due to a drop in revenue in warframe.   Note, revenue does not equal profit.

Total group profit for the year ending 31 dec 2019 was down by $20 million.

During the year admin costs(primarily staff costs) were up by $15m and marketing went up by $8m.   There was also a significant swing in currency exchange income, going from a profit of $6m in 2018 to a loss in 2019.  These figures are for Leyou, not de.

While wf has undoubtedly not performed as well in 2019 as it has in 2018, there are NO actual accounts in this document for de as a separate company.   All the figures given are for the group.

[FoxyKabam]

What is this game to you?

what started as a very pretty mess of a game with tons of potential has slowly, over my 7 years of playing due to sunken cost fallacy, turned into a very pretty grindy mess. Each year getting worse with promises and lies like:

"we wanted to respect our players time"

"we don't want to increase the grind"

to appease the community when DE goes right around and does the exact opposite while they continue to throw S#&$ at a wall, hoping a turd will stick. It'd be nice if DE would throw something else, aim better and clean up the S#&$ that didn't stick.

it really sucks watching all this happen when the art team is just knocking it out of the park constantly and the game play/story/missions can't even come close to that level. I haven't had any faith in DE as a dev team to realize any of the potential warframe has for a long time now; fortuna, liches and empyrean all solidified that for me. I can only guess as what DE's problems are, but they are not and will not be addressed.

so to sum up my feelings of what is this game to me.

 

Warframe is a very wide puddle of stagnant gasoline slowly draining into a gutter. No depth is ever really added to it, just more splashes of gas here and there, making small islands.

Spoiler

Warframe is a puddle of a game.

[Oreades]

What is this game to me?

To me it was an good scratch for my Phantasy Star Online itch at a time when there where no good PSO style tile based procedural looter shooters around. I love the tile based gameplay, it is the core of my enjoyment. 

[TARINunit9]

12 minutes ago, DragoonStorm1 said:

this is happening even with twice the number of ground squads to space squads

codes are just not going through, and space squads are giving up and the flotilla doesnt hit 100/100 smh

Indeed, you need roughly THREE times the ground squads to space squads, due to how the downtime works

A successful space team only needs to do their chores -- fly the ship between Murex spots, spray the ship for bugs -- every nine codes. With good Piloting intrinsics the flying doesn't even take very long

A successful ground team needs to do their chores -- kill a Condrix -- every three codes. And while the first Condrix or two goes quickly, once you start hitting level 80, level 90, level 100 they take a ton of punishment even with properly equipped squads

And this is assuming that DE's big experimental netcode that the entire operation is built to test out is actually working, which is only true most of the time. _{Someone is going to snark at the word "most", but let me remind you: if you're here on the forums, you're in the minority}

[AuroraSonicBoom]

2 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Indeed, you need roughly THREE times the ground squads to space squads, due to how the downtime works

A successful space team only needs to do their chores -- fly the ship between Murex spots, spray the ship for bugs -- every nine codes. With good Piloting intrinsics the flying doesn't even take very long

A successful ground team needs to do their chores -- kill a Condrix -- every three codes. And while the first Condrix or two goes quickly, once you start hitting level 80, level 90, level 100 they take a ton of punishment even with properly equipped squads

And this is assuming that DE's big experimental netcode that the entire operation is built to test out is actually working, which is only true most of the time. _{Someone is going to snark at the word "most", but let me remind you: if you're here on the forums, you're in the minority}

I've done solo grounds almost all the time, and what takes the longest time by far for me is killing battalysts. Not saying the condrix health doesn't take a while, particularly the last 4, but you're right that compared to ground, space is a cake walk - if you can get codes.