Day 1 player, uninstalling for the first time

[(PSN)Sentiel]

I'm here since Fortuna, not as long as most of you here, but still Warframe is, by far, the game I have spent the most time with.

It has many good things to offer to me. It is free to play - by this, I mean it doesn't require PlayStation Plus. It doesn't force any form of PvP or competition on me. It also doesn't force me to play with others, I can play it Solo and I'm not limited in any way, which is great. I really like the customisation of both my Warframe and my gear.

All of these are the reasons I'm still here.

 

Since the game is free to play, it is acceptable for me there are silly features aimed at making people pay, like having to wait for something to be crafted in Foundry. However, it is also great we can gain Platinum by in-game means.

 

That said... The game doesn't respect you, as a player, and it also doesn't respect your time, effort, and money. Furthermore, the developers openly lie right in our eyes, which is the worst part of it all for me.

 

Take Necramechs for example. You have to wait for a new Worm cycle to be able to run all three Vault tiers. That in itself limits you for no reason. 

No respect for your time.

 

When you do the three Vaults, you will run into MANY enemies immune to Status Effects (the Saxum or what's their name spawn a lot down there), the one thing DE explicitly said they don't want to do anymore. If you defeat all 6 of the Necramechs, the chance you get anything of value is so miniscule you're bound to waste weeks repeating this until you get them. You can't buy these things in their Syndicate only because DE doesn't want you to, yet the Necraloid Syndicate store is empty.

No respect for your effort.

 

No respect for your money in right now on PSN Store. The new Deimos pack? The one that costs the same as a brand new AAA game? What's in it? I don't know... Neither of the weapons skins, nor the Ephemera are visible in my Arsenal. DE is asking us for a LOT of money, for things we can't buy with Platinum, but also can't see at all by in-game means.

 

The lying, apart from the aforementioned Status immune enemies, is for example Railjack. It was supposed to be integrated with the rest of the game, yet it isn't by any means. Heck, I can't even see the skin I bought for it from my Orbiter. I can't see my Orbiter from the Railjack either, even though they are linked by some umbilical cord...for whatever reason. The exterior and interior of the Railjack doesn't match, even with the default skin. It's mindbogglingly poorly done and...well... that's it. Nobody cares enough to do something with it, not even the community. Most people reading this will think in their head "Who cares?!". It was released, made DE some money, so it was forgotten like many other things, and now the thing hanging above my Orbiter is just a sad reminder that I fell for DEs lies and fake promises.

 

Btw, when you do put the time in it and do get a Necramech, just because that silly Christmas Warhammer Pinecone Decoration thing made you excited like a little kid for some reason, like it did with me, when you do get that and a spark of hope shines in you for Warframe yet, despite all the things going against it, do you know what DE does with it? It takes a massive, wet, moisty 💩 on it by not allowing you to use it in missions and limits it to Open World only.

 

[DrakeWurrum]

6 hours ago, master_of_destiny said:

In my experience Xaku's ability is entirely useless on the eidolon shields

I didn't say Eidolon shields. I said Sentient resistances. Dunno how you're mixing those up.

[(PSN)thegarada]

52 minutes ago, Marine027 said:

Desperate attmept to keep it relevant while it lasts, only to drop it once agian later, it needing Railjack resources as example not connects the mode with it, it jsut is more farming, regardless where you put the resources in, not makes the gamemode better or refreshing with its repetetive misisons.

Those are depserate attempts by DE, no real connection or reworkign old things to fit the newer things. DEsperation at its best. I will still keep ignorignthis whole update, i am fed up with this honestly, i login, do some daily stuff at best and missions i like, will ignore Deimos and Helmith and pretend that it is even exisiting.

I think (but not sure) that you can feed Helminth RJ resources, but you do not have to. At least, that is how it looked on the wiki. If RJ resources are required.... that would be f******g silly. Why would content, not remotely connected to RJ, require RJ resources?!

In any case, I am kinda in the same boat. I think the mistake was to engage with the content to begin with. I was much wiser with almost all previous updates, ignoring them for 6-8 weeks (or longer), till most of the problems got fixed. I have no issues with the lich system (beside random progression) compared to most. I played it like 2 month after release. I am still waiting for command + modular to play RJ. The reason why I engaged early with this content is I wanted to get the Helminth. It was a mistake. And, after I have done the quest and 5-6 level 100 bounties, there is nothing else in Demios that I am remotely interested in. I am not going to mine, fish, hunt or do low level bounties. I would have more fun watching a boring TV sitcom. 

[DrakeWurrum]

47 minutes ago, Miyabi-sama said:

I'm indifferent to conservation mechanic. I agree with doing that for floofs, and I did. But I disagree this should be 'core mechanic'. Just as I think modern Helminth or necramech systems idea should've never made to implementation. Archwing is the core gameplay, and what is with it? Neglected for years. Balance pass for archwing underwhelming abilities? Meh, better make new animals to screw some time.

The point is these badly implemented time sinks are just like poorly written secondary characters in the big story: if they are gone, nothing changes. What changes for the game if Flappy Zephyr is gone? Nothing. And so it was with animal conservation - if it was gone on Fortuna update nothing would've changed: you still could earn standing without it perfectly, which people did by the way.

Fishing and mining is different matter, it gives you resources, which you can largely neglect if not interested in new gear which comes with open world. But if you do interested even partially? Before you could neglect animals and just do mining and fishing. Today you HAVE to mess with animals in order to rank up syndicate to get access to the blueprints of gear and crafting components. So no, you can't just skip it. Yes DE lowered the blue dumbass token grind a huge deal, but does it earns any gratitude to them? Nope, it aint BDSM session.

If you have such a raw dislike for comments on the forum on high controversial topics, you are actually completely free to not visit these threads.

Edit: my god, just a simple burnout complaints thread is 6 pages long already. People are simmering.

I disagree with the "nothing would have changed" argument.

Nothing would have changed for other forms of gameplay existing in the game. But the game would be even more stagnant than it already is without these alternative game modes added in to the game. The game as a whole is better for having these game modes in them.

I think instead of people being salty about this being "required" to play (why do they want the rank up so bad? Did nobody ever think of that?), they should try to recognize that this is part of the game and that it has challenges unique from other parts of the game. I think people who are upset about animal conservation are making mountains out of mole hills.

I think it's genuinely stupid of people to complain about grinds in a game that is literally centered on grind for content. It always has been. These people will literally spend hours in a Survival map spamming E over and over again, bobbing their heads to techno music or whatever they enjoy... but the moment they have to slow down and actually care about targeting one specific enemy in a way that requires NOT spamming E... they lose their minds. It's all still grind.

If people are mad about this feature, they need to reevaluate their lives or get anger management or something. It's not like DE is asking you to play Fortnite.

[master_of_destiny]

51 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

I didn't say Eidolon shields. I said Sentient resistances. Dunno how you're mixing those up.

Maybe you should read?  Let me copy my response, and bold the section that is relevant.  The rest of the statement was supporting why I trust my observation more than the wki:

 

"While I trust the wiki to mostly be right, I trust the in-game action more.

In my experience Xaku's ability is entirely useless on the eidolon shields.  It doesn't kill the vomvalysts after their shell is stripped.  The one time I watched a Xaku fight against a sentient the Lotus played the "the sentient has adapted to your damage, find another way to attack it" message.  Could it be a bad flag, maybe.  Based upon the rest of the shenanigans, I'd put money that the new frame probably doesn't work as intended..."

[Miyabi-sama]

19 минут назад, DrakeWurrum сказал:

I disagree with the "nothing would have changed" argument.

To think of it you're right. It would change a lot. We would not face this lunacy on Deimos release if it disappeared back then.

But agree to disagree.

21 минуту назад, DrakeWurrum сказал:

But the game would be even more stagnant than it already is without these alternative game modes added in to the game.

It is already THAT stagnant. It is the third time in past three years when I sigh deeply and go fish/hunt in the game which I never imagined would fall so low.

25 минут назад, DrakeWurrum сказал:

recognize that this is part of the game and that it has challenges

Conservation is not a challenge. Just patience test.

42 минуты назад, DrakeWurrum сказал:

why do they want the rank up so bad? Did nobody ever think of that?

Because DE have plucked the most hyped feature of this update behind Enthrati rank 3. I bet there are lots of guys who care less about Deimos overall than about the damn helminth.

1 час назад, DrakeWurrum сказал:

I think it's genuinely stupid of people to complain about grinds in a game that is literally centered on grind for content. It always has been. These people will literally spend hours in a Survival map spamming E over and over again, bobbing their heads to techno music or whatever they enjoy... but the moment they have to slow down and actually care about targeting one specific enemy in a way that requires NOT spamming E... they lose their minds. It's all still grind.

You think wrong. There are different sort of grind. Those you like or don't. I guess majority of complaints about conservation indicate people mostly displeased with it. There is a thick layer of folks who can DEAL with their disgust and endure the hunt just for sake of new stuff gated behind it. I am in that layer. But the fact I can deal with it does not mean I like it. And does not mean that I have no right to vocalize my concerns about DE's intentions with it.

If that's the case, why people are upset about Conclave and Universal medallions? It's just a grind, sure!

Keep in mind I want them to make everything enjoyable. Both hunts and conclave. So people could enjoy (as I have enjoyed Conclave before Update 26).

[DrakeWurrum]

21 minutes ago, Miyabi-sama said:

which I never imagined would fall so low.

And there's your problem. You see this as a low. You don't see it as an alternative form of gameplay that changes things up. You only view the negatives.

22 minutes ago, Miyabi-sama said:

Conservation is not a challenge. Just patience test.

Precisely.

It forces you to slow down, be patient, and actually pay attention to something other than where the next enemy is to slash at.

24 minutes ago, Miyabi-sama said:

I guess majority of complaints about conservation indicate people mostly displeased with it.

You're a vocal minority. That's what you people still don't realize about these forums. People come here to complain and rage and try to discuss ideas for how to change the game. It's very rare for people to come here with praise and enjoyment.

25 minutes ago, Miyabi-sama said:

why people are upset about Conclave and Universal medallions?

Was anybody really that upset about Universal medallions? Universal medallion drops were so friggin low and rare that it would have had little-to-no impact on the Conclave grind.

And as for Conclave, nobody plays that because it's an unpopulated mode that requires other players and simply isn't at all supported by the devs. It also is completely separated from the rest of combat in the game which is... jarring. It's nothing like the situation with these other game modes. You're asked to do combat, and then they strip away everything that you know about combat for the sake of balance.

THAT is content that probably shouldn't exist in the game, if only because the devs have no interest in it, and haven't for years. This game's design doesn't lend itself to pvp anyways.

26 minutes ago, Miyabi-sama said:

Keep in mind I want them to make everything enjoyable. Both hunts and conclave. So people could enjoy (as I have enjoyed Conclave before Update 26).

I wish they would, too. I wish they'd listen to the people, like me, who rightly point out where the flaws in the system are. Because unlike all these idiots on the forums who just come on here to rage about how much they hate being ninja space warriors forced to do something other than murder endless hordes of dumb AI, there are people who recognize "Okay, this is neat, but there are problems with it, so let's fix those problems"

[Aesthier]

First to the OP:

I can empathize with your frustration about feeling forced to do content you absolutely despise in order to progress in something that appears it will play a key part in future content.

I applaud your stance that the only way DE will take stock is if players refuse to partake in the progression content that is required. Because ultimately the only way to force them to take notice is that refusal.

 

As for the conservation itself. I agree that alternate paths should be implemented and should be separate from the current single path and player trades or purchases.

However, I would also like to say that if those alternate paths are implemented, or the conservation requirement is removed, that the same should be done for the rewards from all other content as well, especially for rewards from things like Eidolons, and Orb Mothers.

If you are not going to implement any permanent alternative means to acquire the rewards from those two objectives then the conservation aspect should remain for this one; unless of course you allow players the ability to sell the end items like you do arcanes.

 

Just my two cents.

 

[Miyabi-sama]

16 минут назад, DrakeWurrum сказал:

And there's your problem. You see this as a low. You don't see it as an alternative form of gameplay that changes things up. You only view the negatives.

That is not my problem. My problem is developers making the game not even remotely close to what I imagined 6 years ago.

16 минут назад, DrakeWurrum сказал:

Precisely.

It forces you to slow down, be patient...

Or use damn Equinox to sleep the crap out of them.

You know what? Doom Eternal doesn't force you to slow down. You can nitpick but whatever. And there is a nice thing you've forgot:

17 минут назад, DrakeWurrum сказал:

...and actually pay attention to something other than where the next enemy is to slash at.

Like the enemies are patient enough to not spew gas balls at you while you patiently aiming. I have to wipe out hunting area in 80% of cases.

19 минут назад, DrakeWurrum сказал:

You're a vocal minority.

Prove it. Start a poll. So far I see the shouts and topics of disappointment are popping up like mushrooms after summer rain. Hell, even you are in one of that. And we don't even count reddit.

22 минуты назад, DrakeWurrum сказал:

That's what you people still don't realize about these forums.

I am not "you people". Just one guy. And I have realized everything about this forum. Not even my bugreports ever mattered to devs.

24 минуты назад, DrakeWurrum сказал:

It's very rare for people to come here with praise and enjoyment.

For obvious reasons. I ran out of praises long ago.

25 минут назад, DrakeWurrum сказал:

Was anybody really that upset about Universal medallions?

You kidding, right? I savored the damn drama. The sheer echo of crapstorm made me return in the game from hiatus.

27 минут назад, DrakeWurrum сказал:

And as for Conclave, nobody plays that because it's an unpopulated mode that requires other players and simply isn't at all supported by the devs. It also is completely separated from the rest of combat in the game which is... jarring. It's nothing like the situation with these other game modes. You're asked to do combat, and then they strip away everything that you know about combat for the sake of balance.

Judging by the fact this phrase has only one correct and true statement, I guess you know nothing about convlave. That's ok. Nobody forces you there to change pace or do things you don't like to.

32 минуты назад, DrakeWurrum сказал:

I wish they'd listen to the people, like me, who rightly point out where the flaws in the system are. Because unlike all these idiots...

Nuff said dude. Nuff said.

We have drastically different views on this game, yet I've seen no arguments why am I wrong. Everybody says I'm just wrong. Just because.

[(PSN)thegarada]

1 hour ago, Aesthier said:

First to the OP:

I can empathize with your frustration about feeling forced to do content you absolutely despise in order to progress in something that appears it will play a key part in future content.

I applaud your stance that the only way DE will take stock is if players refuse to partake in the progression content that is required. Because ultimately the only way to force them to take notice is that refusal.

 

As for the conservation itself. I agree that alternate paths should be implemented and should be separate from the current single path and player trades or purchases.

However, I would also like to say that if those alternate paths are implemented, or the conservation requirement is removed, that the same should be done for the rewards from all other content as well, especially for rewards from things like Eidolons, and Orb Mothers.

If you are not going to implement any permanent alternative means to acquire the rewards from those two objectives then the conservation aspect should remain for this one; unless of course you allow players the ability to sell the end items like you do arcanes.

 

Just my two cents.

 

There is a difference between farming mats for a specific item versus farming mats to just progress the syndicate. Example, PoE you have to mine to build Zaws. And alternatively, you can get mining mats from thumpers. I cannot remember if any syndicate leveling require mining mats, but they are accessible enough that you are not locked into a specific path, and realitiviely easy to obtain. Vallis even had it better. You do not need anything to level syndicate, beside bounties. Want Moa or kitgun? Sure, you need to mine and fish, but not conservation.

Why do I need to do fishing, mining and conservation to level syndicate in Demios? It is not like I am trying to build a mecha or get a pet. 

To summarize, after Vallis simplified the system, to make it more diverse, Demios did a 180. Why? The best answer I can come up with is DE hoping to funnel people into buying mats by spending platinum. Cuz apparently, we are going to become trash free to play mobile game now. Otherwise, it makes no sense. It is highly unlikely to be a design mistake. 

[Sahiratu]

On 2020-08-28 at 12:02 PM, Berserkerkitten said:

But now I'm supposed to spend an eternity and a half looking for animals to tranquilize. I mean, it's great that the required amount of Son Tokens was reduced to just one, but you still want me to derp around looking for a bunch of animals to tag on top of it. Once you get that over with, the Helminth segment is just a blueprint, because of course it is. And in order to craft the stupid thing, you need a special alloy. And in order to craft that, you need to mine for minerals, then buy another blueprint, just to craft the alloy in order to craft the segment. 

I really don't see how lot of people saw that as a big big problem, but I understand people should not be forced to do conservation to rank up. I could find animals pretty easy tho, even medjays, I had enough stand to get helminth built on 4th day I think?

About the mining tho, there's nothing wrong on having to get resources to build stuff lol Did you want it just handle to ya?

Anyway, helminth system could have a story tied to this new lore, introduction, anything, not just a straight "buy this random thing without any background, install and use", I was really disappointed.

[Aesthier]

1 hour ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

There is a difference between farming mats for a specific item versus farming mats to just progress the syndicate.

Again see Eidolons.

Arcanes are a core component of warframes usable in every piece of content warframes are usable in. To get these you must raise your faction with Quills.

The only way to get through quills and purchase arcanes is through killing or capturing Eidelons. Something that some players feel forced to do even though they despise the content.

 

I would agree with you that raising the original faction should not require components from every subfaction and instead would be more enjoyable if the main faction could be increased by partaking only in the content you enjoy. However the general point of the OP was locking content that is intended to be used just about anywhere in the future behind one specific content path. A path that obviously many here do not want to partake in.

To that I say it is no different than Eidolons and arcanes for others.

 

In the end removing the conservation requirement for faction rank ups or item acquisition is no different than removing the Eidolon requirement for quills rank up or arcane acquisition.

If one happens the other should also.

Otherwise it is just a hypocritical complaint that when others don't enjoy content it is ok to force them to partake but if it is me then it is unfair.

[EinheriarJudith]

yeah ive had all i can take now of this ridiculous update. 

[(PSN)thegarada]

5 hours ago, Aesthier said:

Again see Eidolons.

Arcanes are a core component of warframes usable in every piece of content warframes are usable in. To get these you must raise your faction with Quills.

The only way to get through quills and purchase arcanes is through killing or capturing Eidelons. Something that some players feel forced to do even though they despise the content.

 

I would agree with you that raising the original faction should not require components from every subfaction and instead would be more enjoyable if the main faction could be increased by partaking only in the content you enjoy. However the general point of the OP was locking content that is intended to be used just about anywhere in the future behind one specific content path. A path that obviously many here do not want to partake in.

To that I say it is no different than Eidolons and arcanes for others.

 

In the end removing the conservation requirement for faction rank ups or item acquisition is no different than removing the Eidolon requirement for quills rank up or arcane acquisition.

If one happens the other should also.

Otherwise it is just a hypocritical complaint that when others don't enjoy content it is ok to force them to partake but if it is me then it is unfair.

Except 3 main differences:

1) Eidolons is combat. It is why I play the game. Not to hunt f******g animals. 

2) There is another way to obtain arcanes. Granted, it is new, never the less, it does exist. Also, you could buy arcanes from other players. A much easier process and hassle than trying to get son token and tags for platinum, since no RNG is involved

3) You could never obtain a single rank with Quils and will not impact you in any shape or form. Amps are used to... you guessed it, kill Eidolons. They practically have no other combat use. Okay one boss on Jupiter. But I farmed Wisp without and Amp (I was new to the game at the time). You do not need it for that. I never ranked with the similar faction on Vallis, and probably never will.

And, very important thing here, Demios is going a** backwards on designs, even DE admitted were bad. Like having arcanes being only from Eidolons. I am not going to repeat the all the Vallis comparisons again. But I will repeat this question. What the f**k happened on Demios?! Why were various options to level, obtain stuff, that we had before, missing?!
 

Conservation, and all none mother tokens need to be removed. One currency to level. You obtain it from any activity you like. Adjust prices accordingly. Just like.... Vallis. I am not suggesting DE create something new, but have in Demois what we already have in previous open worlds. Do we have to go through same systems from scratch every f******g time?

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 hours ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

Except 3 main differences:

1) Eidolons is combat. It is why I play the game. Not to hunt f******g animals. 

2) There is another way to obtain arcanes. Granted, it is new, never the less, it does exist. Also, you could buy arcanes from other players. A much easier process and hassle than trying to get son token and tags for platinum, since no RNG is involved

3) You could never obtain a single rank with Quils and will not impact you in any shape or form. Amps are used to... you guessed it, kill Eidolons. They practically have no other combat use. Okay one boss on Jupiter. But I farmed Wisp without and Amp (I was new to the game at the time). You do not need it for that. I never ranked with the similar faction on Vallis, and probably never will.

Except for 3 main points:

1) I have literally caught more creatures during bounties than actually doing the whole tracking thing. In one case it was totally accidental, I saw enemies in the area meleed them and saw a "press this button to interact" prompt and did it, suddenly there's a cutscene showing a capture. 

2) Quills are actually a bad example, the original open world has a syndicate that literally requires you to have stuff obtained from fishing and mining to move up in. (Conservation didn't exist.) If you are complaining about RNG, then the thing to do is to actually track-call-tranq, which guarantees a spawn of a certain type of creature and eliminates the majority of the randomness. 

3) Yeah that's what people said, and then Umbra's quest came along and suddenly there was a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth in the outer darkness. 🤣

After that it was WOSS requiring people to swap some stuff around and put on high crit damage instead of the status builds that "can kill everything in the game, because they're uber endgame level and haven't changed in forever and will NEVAR change!!!" Except the wolf dgaf how endgame anyone thinks that crap is, he only cared about massive damage numbers, and ignores all the status some people had grown used to having as a crutch. 

After that it was the Railjacks, because OMG why would I ever need that crap.... SS meant that for some that was a horrible slog while others with built up ships, were able to do that part without issue. 

Same thing is going to keep happening as they add more and more stuff to the game. And we'll keep getting more and more salt from the people who foolishly think that they're some sort of godlike killing machines that never have to expand and grow. They will be left behind. We will see more threads like this one. 

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

On 2020-08-28 at 11:22 PM, Berserkerkitten said:

And that's perfectly cool, really. People shouldn't leave in droves, just because Deimos is terrible. But for me, personally, this has been a trend for a while now. Stuff is announced, gets delayed for an eternity, then is released in as broken and bare-bones a fashion as it can possibly get. Liches were supposed to offer "endless variety", then there are exactly TWO personalities for them. Two. They're blatantly taking this feature straight from Shadow of Mordor and they could only be bothered to write and record voice lines for two different liches.

Railjack ... sigh. I'm too tired to get into this. Command Intrinsic? More than one mission type? Factions? Blah. Honestly, I don't even care anymore. 

But they just keep doing this. Announce a lot of stuff, release less than half of it, most of it is broken, some of it gets hotfixed, the rest gets to sit and collect dust. I need a break.

I agree with everything you’ve said, but the “nemesis system” used in shadow of Mordor is not at all unique to that game. 
 

It’s been in the diablo franchise for years prior to Shadow, and in many games before Diablo.

[Aesthier]

 

5 hours ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

Except 3 main differences:

1) Eidolons is combat. It is why I play the game. Not to hunt f******g animals. 

2) There is another way to obtain arcanes. Granted, it is new, never the less, it does exist. Also, you could buy arcanes from other players. A much easier process and hassle than trying to get son token and tags for platinum, since no RNG is involved

3) You could never obtain a single rank with Quils and will not impact you in any shape or form. Amps are used to... you guessed it, kill Eidolons. They practically have no other combat use. Okay one boss on Jupiter. But I farmed Wisp without and Amp (I was new to the game at the time). You do not need it for that. I never ranked with the similar faction on Vallis, and probably never will.

1 Is purely subjective and hypocritical. (Again see: I don't want to be forced to do content I don't like but it is ok if everyone else is.)

 

2. Please feel free to explain. As far as trading/purchasing from other players I think is one has that capability then they both should have.

 

3. Point taken about the Quills rep not being "required" to obtain arcanes however the brunt of the main warframe arcanes drop from Eidolons which "is" required if you want those arcane without purchasing them from other players. Thus Quills rep goes a long way in strengthening one's ability to do so.

 

My whole point is that since the changes getting the son tokens and required tags is massively simple. (Even simpler than farming stuff to sell for plat so I can purchase arcanes)

There is no difference between perfect and bad capture they each give the same amount of tokens. It is tremendously easy to go slaughter everything in sight and just pick up the dead critters that don't disappear. If you ahve something specific you want then it is as easy as doing an actual conservation hunt for that thing.

At the end of the day it just sounds to me like a bunch of "I want it now" complainers whining because they finally had to do something they don't enjoy to get a particular thing they wanted. Other have been doing this for a long time there is no reason one group should be treated any differently.

 

 

 

[Berserkerkitten]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb _R_o_g_u_e_:

I agree with everything you’ve said, but the “nemesis system” used in shadow of Mordor is not at all unique to that game. 
 

It’s been in the diablo franchise for years prior to Shadow, and in many games before Diablo.

Can we not do this whole wisecracking thing? I never said the nemesis thing was "unique" to Shadow of Mordor. However, the way these nemeses have personalities, quirks, directly address you, the way the whole thing works could hardly be any closer to Shadow of Mordor/War. It's MUCH more detailed than anything Diablo has ever done in that regard. Yes, other videogames exist, no idea is ever new, some other game always did it first, blah blah 

[Rehero]

I'm here to also voice my displeasure with several designs DE has leaned into. My friends and I put quite a bit of time into Warframe starting back before the release of Valkyr. I remember us being ecstatic to the eventual operator reveal and I believe that this was probably the height of my joy in the game. Sadly operators still feel clunky to use and the focus system still annoying to upgrade five years, a rework and several balance changes later. Since the operator reveal it has felt like the game has gotten more and more bloat features that we feel obligated to wade through every time we play and it's gotten tiresome. My original interest in the game was high speed hack and slash against hordes of enemies but despite that many new systems seem to explicitly avoid this? Archwing and Railjack feels like an unnecessary blockage between the enemies and I. Vallis and the plains are too large and enemies too few. Many enemies designed to either be a giant block of health, have weird immunity phases or prevent the entire use of your kit. The fishing didn't interest me the first time, the second time or the third time, likewise conservation didn't interest me the first time or the second time. Bounties always felt like a very roundabout and downgraded version of the normal game play paradigm. Though I will admit Deimos seems to be much better than Vallis and the Plains but given my displeasure with the first two that doesn't seem like much. For me the highlights of the updates lately has to be tile reworks, new endless missions, old system revamps/balance and augment mods. Other than playing through those I've found myself only returning to check back to see if we've finally got any substantial story elements. We still have fake lotus going on three years now and there are so many unfinished story threads that I've lost track of which one I'm supposed to actually be focused on. Now it seems like we've opted to throw warframe identity out of the window in, what I assume to be, an effort to forgo the need for redesigns of abilities that have been flawed since their launch. 

 

Also, excessive grind to see lore is furthering my disdain for how things have been heading, keep the rewards for grind to weapons, cosmetics, warframes and mods please. Having lore locked behind the Necraloid faction seems completely unnecessary. After you tried to lock the Erra cinematic behind Railjack progression I'd have hoped you'd have thought better. If you want to stagger lore in this way have smaller story quests between major content drops, or give us an ARG to follow. Heck even hiding stuff like you did with the Ordis story was great. Even something as simple as periodic story journals on the warframe main site would be fine, FFXIV has been doing that lately and it's been great.

 

My apologies, I originally was just going to comment on what I agreed with from the original post but as I started typing my disappointment got the better of me. Many of the points I listed here are my own separate grievances from the points originally made. 

[DeltaPangaea]

I could simply say "This" but that would hardly satisfy my love of complaining.

I started playing warframe back in the closed beta days. I've been around to see it change and grow. I'm not the sort to buy founder packs or the like, but I was there. I remember when equipment had an upgrade tree, as anemic as it was.

And honestly? The only thing that's kept me here has been the frames themselves. Conceptually. They are the cool thing I want more of, they're what drew me in and continue to draw people in to this day. DE doesn't seem to like them that much though, it feels sometimes.

Anyway, as has been stated, DE's problem is one of distraction. Nothing ever gets the time it needs before being released, and then once it does get released, it never gets the proper attention it needs to get fixed, because they're off gallivanting about with some other new thing already. They work on whatever they think is cool at any one time, completely disregarding existing things.

And they don't even test things that hard. How long would it take in testing to discover that the scintillant farm was completely borked? Like a day? But that didn't happen. Not until it was released, people complained, and they did that day of testing and found out that oh yes, borked it was.

For the love of all that's holy, DE. Adopt an organization schedule. Stop scrapping things and doing them at the 11th hour. Stop rushing things out the door with little gameplay or bug testing. Stop getting distracted with the big new shiny thing and forgetting what you were doing. Creative energy is FANTASTIC, and I wouldn't say you should stop THINKING about new ideas... just bank them. Save them until you're done with what you're doing. This also gives you time to think them over and realize that maybe they might be kind of a terrible idea.

 

Focus and Organization, DE. Please.

[DeltaPangaea]

ACTUALLY YOU KNOW WHAT I AIN'T DONE I GOT MY COMPLAINING HACKLES UP NOW.

I've always thought warframes were cool. These nifty faceless alienish biorobots... that was the real draw. Not boring humans or nothin, nah not here. They were the characters of the world. People ascribed personalities to them, commiserated with them, made dumb little comics or stories about them hanging about and being idiots in a way that was counter to their appearance and presentation, but still oh so fitting.

And then Operators happened. The game told you that no, sorry. Your Ember was not a spunky tomboy with a plushie collection and a beanbag that was entirely too big. She was just a body to be inhabited. Your Saryn wasn't a classy lady who had a french accent despite France having been obliterated in the great cheese purge of 2044. Just a body to be inhabited. You weren't even playing them, really.

You were playing a kid. A short, useless, boring human kid, who wasn't even in any danger 99% of the time, just tucked up all nice and cozy in their little space armchair while they played a video game and Lotus told them they were the coolest kid on the playground. They were every possible thing that Warframes weren't. And they had the GALL to put your name on it. This sniveling little brat that was stepping all over everything that could be? That's YOU, DE says. Aren't you just adorable?

Not really no. I'm insulted.

Then we got Focus. It was trash. Operators were garbage to the point of being the only thing in the system to take fall damage _{(Which DE then silently stealth nerfed after release, don't think I didn't notice)}, they had no abilities, not even a shield, and the mote amp is a #*!%ing joke. To get them anywhere even approaching usable, that was an ungodly grind. But why would you do that, when all it gets you is 'it's okay I guess'? Why indeed. Because DE thought they were just the coolest little things and you were going to play with them whether you liked it or not. Those big new boss fights? Gotta use your sproglet.

We got Focus 2.0. It's still trash. Zenurik was called out as being too good for the free permanent energy regen, so DE nerfed it by making it more powerful and able to be shared with the party, but you need to press three buttons to make it work. A powerful gameplay ability was not only BUFFED in response to it being too strong, it was supposedly balanced by 'being slightly fiddly'. And yet still, only two abilities from each tree directly influenced gameplay, and a lot of them not by much. Some cheated like Zenurik. Healing your operator is still best-served by just having them die. You can just poop out a new one at full hp. But if you play safe and pull them back before they do? Well they're just gonna sit at that 2 hp.

Incidentally, have you ever considered what a colossal, impossible misstep Void Mode was? Like just giving every single one of these dorks on-demand invisibility and invincibility. Do you have any conceivable idea how much design space that nukes from orbit? Apparently DE didn't, since one Focus power was the ability to put up a little shield in front of yourself, which served no purpose since every sprog regardless of tree had on demand godmode that didn't care how much damage it prevented.

Operators displeased me on so many levels, but if they were mechanically solid, I would've grown to accept them eventually. But taking them as they are, even accepting that Focus was never meant to upgrade a frame's capabilities beyond a doggie treat thrown their way, and was instead meant to upgrade your Operator... They're mechanically terrible. Even today. The barrier to entry is atrocious, with little incentive to do it in the first place, and the more I think about it the more questions I have.

Why are the 1-4 ability keys not used by Operators? Why does them having any kind of durability necessitate using specific arcanes, thus striking customization from the equation? Why are they so ungodly terrible to begin with, resulting in the mother of all bad first impressions?

I'm rambling, but this is what happens. And so we have Focus 2.0, it's still designed like it was thrown together at the last minute, a desperate attempt to quickly patch the results of their last desperate attempt to deliver on what they promised. And then Fortuna, and Railjack, and clumsily reworking the entire melee system, and Liches, and Deimos, and whatever that thing with the adult operator was I can't even bloody remember come swanning by, DE's attention span crumbling like a wet cookie.

You may say 'Delta, wet cookies don't crumble', and that's true. That probably shoulda been caught in testing.

We know how this goes. Through a number of patches and people just getting used to it all over again, Deimos will become bearable. We'll get maybe 1 or 2 extra mechs. Deimos will get a frame or two locked behind it. Then it'll be forgotten for a few years. The bigger a Warframe release is, the more people question why they still play, the more they complain, and despite claims to the contrary, DE just keeps on truckin' along with their obligate damage mods, the walking masses of invulns they call bosses, their drastically, royally gut#*!%ed balance, their warframe abilities nobody ever uses, their arbitrary status immunities, their lack of testing, and their poor attention span.

 

Nihil novi sub sole, and so the cycle repeats.

[Circle_of_Psi]

2 hours ago, DeltaPangaea said:

Nihil novi sub sole, and so the cycle repeats.

Have to agree with Delta here, the whole Kiddo system is a poor design choice, I rather have them be removed from the game and let our frames be who they are. Not some brat.

Also been noticing that Female Operators tend to have the best looking stuff and this trend has been going on for a while now, Kuva Lich Females being Logical, The orokin family females being more graceful and nice, coming out their pods. 

I feel you Delta, good luck on other games tho! o7

 

Maybe I can introduce to  Destiny 2?  

[Solarsyphon]

Needing to do a very small amount of conservation  for a factions isn't mechanically an issue as there does need to be a small amount  to create a progression arc and ultimately it is the isolation of systems that is DE's biggest problem leading to content simply being left derelict.  They seem to  have an obsession with innovation that while admirable  seems to come with a lack long term support for projects. This is a complex problem, people no longer consider the new weapons and frames they used to call  new content enough and so updates have expanded. This has polarised their dev team to be almost entirely focused on reworks or entirely on new content because of the sheer size required to be noticed. With the work theyve doen recently I think they could have rather easily done a warframe two having now reworked most planets, bosses and weapons. I even think they may have very much been better off doing so due to how the current structure creates difficulty and progression issues for example they cant retroactively create difficulty progression/ story progression to a star chart most people have completed, they cant create a player progression most people are in the middle of.  It think they've really tried, I think focus might have been an attempt at a meta progression by creating meta skills outside of frames for the overall progression mastery has failed to provide. . I also I think the only way they've found they can do progression is with faction standing making it take the place of increases to the level cap in other mmo's. There is the advantage that it keeps the content accessible without having to give new players content skips to play it as other games do but the disadvantage is that it makes it feel like the higher level players have nothing to work for and that all content is an island.

This is why I was hopeful for rail jack because in theory it could have fixed allot of these issues.  They could have created a new star chart with the progression and level systems needed  integrating allot of the old content into it such as game modes. It hasn't been that and maybe that was a bit overly optimistic as id basically have been asking them to double their current work. Regardless I do think it has the beginnings of it with the multi objective missions, with multiple instances and including archwing and ground gameplay.  Lichs  similarly have allot of what i think was needed to improve the star chart I can just see an alternate warframe where elements of it were integrated into the normal bosses and then the lichs acted as the end game version giving a clear story and difficulty progression. 

[Monolake]

While OP is full of misconceptions and misunderstandings Im not going to pick on any. Because in general he's correct. DE lost it, they copypaste same mechanics - almost no one  liked in the first place or got tired of - for the third time! The lack of creativity and new ideas is baffling. DE keeps on making same mistakes with the systems and mission design.  And the only new system addition to the open world - mehs - is dead on arrival because of how buggy and poorly developed it is and they basically have no use.  And in many ways Deimos is even a downgrade from Plains, it's just sad.

Helmint is a great idea - it's more of what we do love about WF - deep customization and variety of things to play with, but of course it only highlights the long-standing disparity between frames and abilities. Its the better part of this update and its a shame that its not integrated into Deimos/Entrati story and progression (but I guess with corona and clearly rushing this realease they had limited time and went the easy way of simply putting it in the 'shop' and nothing else)

[DoomFruit]

4 hours ago, Solarsyphon said:

Needing to do a very small amount of conservation  for a factions isn't mechanically an issue as there does need to be a small amount

The problem (or in this case, perhaps the straw that broke the camel's back) is the fact that conservation as a system is flat out defective and that would have been seen the very instant it was playtested.

The latter part is the problem. DE very obviously do not play their game. They do not have someone sit down and play it from start to end unaided with zero cheats, dev hacks or other manipulations. If they did, we would never see these blatant bugs and balance issues. This is most certainly not the first time it's happened and it's why I'm flat out ignoring anything Deimos until 2021 at the earliest.