(Lore Questions) How are the Entrati even alive and why are they okay with Tenno being around?

[Butterfly85]

To be fair, we need the entrati to maintain our void powers so it's in our interest to make sure they are ok. I mean, i doubt the kiddo will have the theoretically scientific background to maintain the heart and whatnot.

[GovernmentSecrets.gov]

2 minutes ago, Serafim_94 said:

Well, it's complicated. We've never seen a true Orokin consumed by Infestation before - only regular humans and archimedeans.

See, there's that thing called "oro". A soul, basically. It's whatever the #*!% is keeping Orokin and, presumably, Liches immortal. Supposedly, Tenno have it too, and we have at least one example of infested hivemind being explicitly afraid of Tenno. Helminth doesn't call you void demon for nothing.

That "oro" is what Orokin transfer around when they change bodies. Transferable mind, able to replace original personality of body completely - that's definitely something more resilient than regular human mind. I assume that's why Entrati's minds at least partially survived for so long. Another example of this "mind resilience" could be Nihil - notice a difference between him and how most cephalons behave.

The transferable mind thing would be a good way to escape losing your mind to the infested, but without a replacement body I don't think any amount of mental fortitude could protect one from the infested once they've been caught. If anything I think the only reason they're alive is solely because of whatever temporary cure they're using, but should they run out or enough time passes they'd be fully assimilated without another body to escape to. As for infested Orokin the ancients kind of look like Orokin although with how mutated they are it's hard to tell what they were although there's not mainly if any candidates beside them at least I think.

[SneakyErvin]

13 minutes ago, --Councilor_Vay_Hek-- said:

What I was confused about was that while yes they are infested the infested always consume both body and mind rendering its victims mindless twisted globs of zombie flesh. The Entrati appeared to have miraculously survived with only amnesia although as someone mentioned above they're using something to stave off the infestions grasp on them, but it seems that whatever it is will only work for so long before the infestion eventually consumes them regardless.

Maybe they make us of the Helminth in some way. It is afterall a research facility that managed to re-assemble "dead" frames and make them work like a singular frankensteinish monster. Perhaps some botox style helminth injections to keep them "fresh" and resistant to being taken over completely. Or something taken from the wildlife that obviously is restistant to full assimilation.

We know Kavats cannot get infested, so maybe the "lions" and "foxes" of deimos takes it a step further and instead assimilates the infestation to become stronger.

[GovernmentSecrets.gov]

1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

Maybe they make us of the Helminth in some way. It is afterall a research facility that managed to re-assemble "dead" frames and make them work like a singular frankensteinish monster. Perhaps some botox style helminth injections to keep them "fresh" and resistant to being taken over completely. Or something taken from the wildlife that obviously is restistant to full assimilation.

We know Kavats cannot get infested, so maybe the "lions" and "foxes" of deimos takes it a step further and instead assimilates the infestation to become stronger.

Your guess is as good as mine. When it comes to the wildlife on Deimos I actually cannot think of one reason as to how they survived outside of having whatever characteristic immunity like the Kavats have although it's weird as they appear partially infested while Kavats are totally immune. Maybe whatever the Entrati are using to maintain their consciousness can be made with items acquired locally and maybe some of the wildlife did the same some how?

[OneYenShort]

Take a lesson from Marvel, and say that they created a healing factor.  I mean look at Deadpool.  Problem is, the healing factor they created is only slightly slower than infestation.  We have no idea how strong/good their medical science is.  But obviously they don't have much in the why of physological after all this time as they are the last surivors and are down to one and a half cephlon aids.

Who knows, maybe the Entrati are the reason why the Corpus and Grineer have some of the anti teno tech they do. 

[SneakyErvin]

16 minutes ago, --Councilor_Vay_Hek-- said:

Your guess is as good as mine. When it comes to the wildlife on Deimos I actually cannot think of one reason as to how they survived outside of having whatever characteristic immunity like the Kavats have although it's weird as they appear partially infested while Kavats are totally immune. Maybe whatever the Entrati are using to maintain their consciousness can be made with items acquired locally and maybe some of the wildlife did the same some how?

Very possible it is something plant based that does it, it would explain why the animals are resistant and it gives a scientific explaination to how the entrati can be resistant aswell. Then there are the dragonflies that seem to be 100% immune and untouched.

edit: Not to mention the two massive infested entities that hate eachothers guts and kill eachother each cycle. Those to things bring me even more "wtf how does Deimos infestation actually work!?".

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, OneYenShort said:

Take a lesson from Marvel, and say that they created a healing factor.  I mean look at Deadpool.  Problem is, the healing factor they created is only slightly slower than infestation.  We have no idea how strong/good their medical science is.  But obviously they don't have much in the why of physological after all this time as they are the last surivors and are down to one and a half cephlon aids.

Who knows, maybe the Entrati are the reason why the Corpus and Grineer have some of the anti teno tech they do. 

I agree, they really need to add Deadpool to the game.

Wait, that isnt what you suggested?

[(XBOX)CI shadow2397]

1 hour ago, --Councilor_Vay_Hek-- said:

How are the Entrati alive if they got assimilated by the infested? Does the infested not consume any living thing it touches like the regular enemies that we find among the infested? I get why Salad V wasn't fully assimilated because he was more valuable to the infested alive rather than as extra biomass, but if that's the case what value to the Entrati have to the infested? Surely once the son allowed the infestation to spread and get out of control he would have out lived his usefulness and been consumed by the infested along with all life on the planet.

Another thing is why are the Entrati cool with Tenno running around? The Tenno carried out a system wide genocide of the Orokin, so why are they not even remotely concerned about a disembodied armored death machine with space powers rolling up to their door? Sure they may be a dysfunctional family, but you'd think if a terminator that tried to end their species just showed up they'd all be on the same page of not wanting anything to do with it.

Maybe I'm missing something and it all makes sense, but I just don't understand how this scenario even came to be. Going off what we know the Entrati wouldn't even be alive by the time we arrive, let alone the animals that we find on the planet. The infested consume all life and assimilate the body and consciousness of its victims, so how is their even still life on Deimos? I could see small holdouts of survivors that aren't infested like we saw in the Nidus questline, but they weren't already assimilated.

Well for starters on top of some weird cure the entrati are using to stave off the infestation, the hive mind on Deimos isn’t exactly working as one and probably  is more focused of fass and vomes disputed rather than the entrati. On top of that infested ancients are made from a completely different caste of orokin, lorists. 
the entrati don’t care about what the Tenno are doing because the Tenno didn’t kill them and they specifically had loid/otak invite us to help. Also the animals on the planet are alive because they are infested animals. Also the infested doesn’t just infest you by touch it actually has to infect you. There are survivors on Deimos because they haven’t been killed or infected by the infestation. And they’re aren’t that many survivors to begin with. Life on Deimos is mainly infested organisms with the non infested holed up in the necralisk trying to survive.

[Fl_3]

This is a different strain of infestation to the rest of the system "The Grey Strain", Maybe it effects people differently from the regular strain.

The way I rationalise it is this. . .

The Grey Strain is what constitutes part of the Warframes. It's engineered from the original strain to be more "beneficial" to the host, allowing more control over it by the individual family members or, the Tenno. This would also explain how Ballas took control of Umbra in the closing sick bed cinematic of Sacrifice. The Grey Strain rendered him more susceptible to transference.

This is of course all head canon, and has nothing to do with the hard lore of the game. I like it though.

[(XBOX)CI shadow2397]

21 minutes ago, Fl_3 said:

This is a different strain of infestation to the rest of the system "The Grey Strain", Maybe it effects people differently from the regular strain.

The way I rationalise it is this. . .

The Grey Strain is what constitutes part of the Warframes. It's engineered from the original strain to be more "beneficial" to the host, allowing more control over it by the individual family members or, the Tenno. This would also explain how Ballas took control of Umbra in the closing sick bed cinematic of Sacrifice. The Grey Strain rendered him more susceptible to transference.

This is of course all head canon, and has nothing to do with the hard lore of the game. I like it though.

But it warframes are made from helminth. The grey strain is just a more buff version of the usual infested. The only difference being is that for some reasons part of the hive mind split off and now vome and fass the last two brains cells are fighting to decide whether or not to eat the pizza. Fass is most likely the general infested hive mind seeing as his influence causes the infestation to act like their more aggressive selves and he is dominant for most of the time, where vome who is the rebel, is more of a pacifist and causes the infestation to calm down and isn’t out for as long.

[Fl_3]

3 minutes ago, (XBOX)CI shadow2397 said:

But it warframes are made from helminth. The grey strain is just a more buff version of the usual infested. The only difference being is that for some reasons part of the hive mind split off and now vome and fass the last two brains cells are fighting to decide whether or not to eat the pizza. Fass is most likely the general infested hive mind seeing as his influence causes the infestation to act like their more aggressive selves and he is dominant for most of the time, where vome who is the rebel, is more of a pacifist and causes the infestation to calm down and isn’t out for as long.

It's all just head canon as nothing official has been written about it yet as far as I know, which is why we're making it up here.

Every persons idea is just as viable as the next until we're told different.

Lots of good ideas though.

[killerJoke66]

2 hours ago, Berzerkules said:

no  no , you guys have it wrong , entrati family are quite enthusiasts on void empowered silicons™ shipped by baro ki'teer himself , they bloat their bodies before they show tenno and the world their last bloodline , a remarkable last stance if you will 🌌

[Berzerkules]

Just now, killerJoke66 said:

no  no , you guys have it wrong , entrati family are quite enthusiasts on void empowered silicons™ shipped by baro ki'teer himself , they bloat their bodies before they show tenno and the world their last bloodline , a remarkable last stance if you will 🌌

You just used a lot of words when you could have just used one, Magic.

[killerJoke66]

1 minute ago, Berzerkules said:

You just used a lot of words when you could have just used one, Magic.

cmon void silicones sound good too , and baro is in it 

[(NSW)BalticBarbarian]

2 hours ago, --Councilor_Vay_Hek-- said:

Assuming the infested Ancients are Orokin

Infested Ancients are not (necessarily) infested Orokin - they are just creatures infested long ago, some in Orokin times. If you read the lore in Simaris's research console under "Corrupted Ancient", you'll see an example of this.

Spoiler

Corrupted Ancient Healers are shown to be infested Lorists (Orokin servants engineered specifically to be healers, including battlefield medics of Dax squads)

As far as how the Entrati remained relatively unaffected: they were top Orokin scientists who were researching the Infestation before they themselves got infected. If anyone had a chance to minimise its effects - it's them.

And the reason they accept Tenno's help was simple: desperation. It was either that or being completely consumed.

[Berzerkules]

10 minutes ago, killerJoke66 said:

cmon void silicones sound good too , and baro is in it 

Since Baro magically brought new primed mods I'll give it to.

[-JT-_-R3W1ND]

45 minutes ago, (NSW)BalticBarbarian said:

Corrupted Ancient Healers are shown to be infested Lorists (Orokin servants engineered specifically to be healers, including battlefield medics of Dax squads)

I don't know "How Entrati is ok with Tenno" is even a question. Imagin your goverment bring zombie-healers into the battle... And do not forget about infestation is an Orokin creation too. Along with many other creative ideas.

Anyway, every time i get confused just by mentioning this term. Orokin. Does it defined by oro-magic? Civilisastion in general, with exeption and small groups inside? Can we say it genetic race? How many of em were slained by us? 7(6)? 100? 1000? 1000000? How many has survived... Alad V back story pls?

2 hours ago, Oggyswe said:

well the time span is unclear. but i think warframe takes place a few thousand years after the fall of the orokin. plus they have lost parts of themselves due to the infestation.

That's what actually ppl think then they hear about "lost civilisation", but for now, i'm not sure has it been at least 10 years.

Spoiler

I mean Hunhow and his forgotеen spy... We don't know much about traveling time, but it would be a pretty strange line "oh, hi there, didn't see you literally for ages".

 

[TARINunit9]

4 hours ago, --Councilor_Vay_Hek-- said:

How are the Entrati alive if they got assimilated by the infested? Does the infested not consume any living thing it touches like the regular enemies that we find among the infested?

Willpower. Science. Space magic. The Infested are not infallible -- hell, the giant worms Vome and Fass hate each other so much that they are trying to kill each other. Clearly the hive mind has some serious limits

4 hours ago, --Councilor_Vay_Hek-- said:

 

Another thing is why are the Entrati cool with Tenno running around? The Tenno carried out a system wide genocide of the Orokin, so why are they not even remotely concerned about a disembodied armored death machine with space powers rolling up to their door? Sure they may be a dysfunctional family, but you'd think if a terminator that tried to end their species just showed up they'd all be on the same page of not wanting anything to do with it.

There is a lot at play here:

1) first and foremost, we aren't trying to kill them

2) the Entrati don't seem like they were as overtly, blindly racist or classist as the rest of the Orokin. I.e. the two main reasons the Orokin abused us

3) despite the limits of the hive mind, the Infested are still the bigger threat here. We know it, the Entrati know it, so the Infested need to be pruned

4) Father claims he was involved in the Warframe projects. He's actually more nostalgic toward us than angry at us.

5) the Entrati knows what really motivated us, more than genocide: 

 

[Serafim_94]

42 минуты назад, -JT-_-R3W1ND сказал:

I don't know "How Entrati is ok with Tenno" is even a question. Imagin your goverment bring zombie-healers into the battle... And do not forget about infestation is an Orokin creation too. Along with many other creative ideas.

Anyway, every time i get confused just by mentioning this term. Orokin. Does it defined by oro-magic? Civilisastion in general, with exeption and small groups inside? Can we say it genetic race? How many of em were slained by us? 7(6)? 100? 1000? 1000000? How many has survived... Alad V back story pls?

That's what actually ppl think then they hear about "lost civilisation", but for now, i'm not sure has it been at least 10 years.

  Показать контент

I mean Hunhow and his forgotеen spy... We don't know much about traveling time, but it would be a pretty strange line "oh, hi there, didn't see you literally for ages".

 

The Orokin are the long-handed A******s. The nobility, the upper caste, the rulers. "The Orokin empire" is the empire they created and ruled, which is the whole "lost civilization" thing.. The citizens of that empire were, mostly, normal humans pushed by Orokin into abysmal conditions.

Then there's Hunhow, who is just being racist by generalizing all humans as Orokin.

[GrayArchon]

5 hours ago, --Councilor_Vay_Hek-- said:

How are the Entrati alive if they got assimilated by the infested? Does the infested not consume any living thing it touches like the regular enemies that we find among the infested?

They are actively fighting against their developing Infestation. @(XBOX)C11H22O11 pointed out the quote from Daughter regarding this. In addition, Orokin genetics could be more difficult for the Infestation to assimilate.

5 hours ago, --Councilor_Vay_Hek-- said:

I get why Salad V wasn't fully assimilated because he was more valuable to the infested alive rather than as extra biomass, but if that's the case what value to the Entrati have to the infested? Surely once the son allowed the infestation to spread and get out of control he would have out lived his usefulness and been consumed by the infested along with all life on the planet.

You'll notice that not even all life on the planet (moon) has been fully Infested. I'm not quite sure if the Conservation creatures are supposed to be Infested or not, seeing as the other Infested like to attack them, but the fish are a good example. There are seemingly uncorrupted Orokin fish swimming around in the exocrine, and the description of Benign Infested Tumours confirms that they are Infested, but not assimilated: "The Infestation infects all fish on Deimos, even those that do not show any external mutations." Daughter remarks in the Heart of Deimos quest that they are "Infested, but not entangled in shared consciousness." So Infestation doesn't always follow the same path of direct assimilation. Plus, as @SneakyErvin mentioned, the Infestation on Deimos is a different variant known as the "Gray Strain", which could easily have a different pathology.

5 hours ago, --Councilor_Vay_Hek-- said:

Another thing is why are the Entrati cool with Tenno running around? The Tenno carried out a system wide genocide of the Orokin, so why are they not even remotely concerned about a disembodied armored death machine with space powers rolling up to their door? Sure they may be a dysfunctional family, but you'd think if a terminator that tried to end their species just showed up they'd all be on the same page of not wanting anything to do with it.

The Tenno were concerned with destroying the Empire's hierarchy. We see in the Corrupted Ancient Synthesis entry and in the Nezha and Grendel Leverians that they were still concerned with protecting the Empire's inhabitants, even as they went around cleaning up loose ends. Mother mentions in the Heart of Deimos quest that "The Orokin had no respect for my father's work," implying that the Entrati, despite being wealthy, powerful, and vitally connected to the Empire's infrastructure, do not see themselves as among the leading echelons of the Orokin Empire. The Tenno appear to have shared this point of view, as the Entrati have survived this long.

Also, for what it's worth, Son says, once you reach rank Family, "No hard feelings. Our time had more than come." Of course, he's much more nihilistic than the rest of the family, so perhaps it's not surprising.

5 hours ago, --Councilor_Vay_Hek-- said:

The infested consume all life and assimilate the body and consciousness of its victims, so how is their even still life on Deimos?

So it seems that this is the main assumption, which in light of what we learn when we find Deimos, appears to be erroneous. Perhaps most or all of the Infestation cases we've witnessed have fitted this pattern, but Deimos is presented as a new scenario. As Son says, "a place of aberrations."

5 hours ago, killerJoke66 said:

also why entrati orokin seem way more bloated/bigger  than normal orokin and infested  ? but then why the infestation process didnt bloat alad v ..

It's not because of the Infestation. The Orokin are just big. Look at Ballas.

5 hours ago, --Councilor_Vay_Hek-- said:

Although they must've been fairly quick or had something on standby as I doubt there would've been enough time to develop something while being ensnared by the infestation.

They were already actively studying the Infestation. That's why the Infested were present to infect them in the first place. Son was studying them and didn't follow proper decontamination protocols.

5 hours ago, --Councilor_Vay_Hek-- said:

By far Salad V got it the lightest, he only had that mark on his face and that's it if I recall correctly.

He got it far worse than that. Go fight Mutalist Alad V. Half his body is taken over by the Infestation. He cured himself with data we provided during Operation: Tubemen of Regor, and it all got reversed except for the purple scarring. But when he was actually Infested, it was very prominent.

4 hours ago, --Councilor_Vay_Hek-- said:

you'd think they'd show more concern instead of continuing to quarrel with each other they could've been mustering a cautionary defense with the local Necramechs in case the Tenno's intent is to carry out an extermination run.

It seems that Father is the only one with any level of control over the Necramechs, and he was taking a 'leave of absence' from the family at the time of our arrival. Besides, at that point, the Heart was in jeopardy, which was a higher priority.

4 hours ago, Serafim_94 said:

See, there's that thing called "oro". A soul, basically. It's whatever the #*!% is keeping Orokin and, presumably, Liches immortal. Supposedly, Tenno have it too, and we have at least one example of infested hivemind being explicitly afraid of Tenno. Helminth doesn't call you void demon for nothing.

That "oro" is what Orokin transfer around when they change bodies. Transferable mind, able to replace original personality of body completely - that's definitely something more resilient than regular human mind. I assume that's why Entrati's minds at least partially survived for so long. Another example of this "mind resilience" could be Nihil - notice a difference between him and how most cephalons behave.

We still have no real confirmation of this theory aside from two lines from Teshin that date to 2016/2017. Everything else points to kuva as the real force behind Orokin immortality, and it's not some inherent quality like oro. Anyone can take the kuva.

[GrayArchon]

3 hours ago, --Councilor_Vay_Hek-- said:

but should they run out or enough time passes they'd be fully assimilated without another body to escape to.

Most of the family members will acknowledge during the Heart of Deimos quest that they're all living on borrowed time.

3 hours ago, --Councilor_Vay_Hek-- said:

As for infested Orokin the ancients kind of look like Orokin although with how mutated they are it's hard to tell what they were although there's not mainly if any candidates beside them at least I think.

Ancients are heavily implied by the Corrupted Ancient Synthesis entry to be descended from Infested Lorists (Orokin-Era healers).

[killerJoke66]

2 hours ago, GrayArchon said:

 

It's not because of the Infestation. The Orokin are just big. Look at Ballas.

 

wasnt ballas a tad higher than a human on the contrary all the entrati members are as almost big or bigger than a house. 

[Hayrack]

Deimos lore ruined Infestation lore for me. The infestation and it's... goals... should have been the central pillar of the story, not a background for Orokin Santa Barbara. Necramechs? What in the... Why not infestation-induced mutations, that turn your warframe into an infested beast? Why not infested guns that you stick on your new appendages? Why no explaining about relationships between Helminth infestation and Derelict infestation? WHY INFESTATION OPEN WORLD IS ABOUT TENNO AND OROKIN AND NOT ABOUT INFESTATION???

[(PSN)robotwars7]

 

10 hours ago, --Councilor_Vay_Hek-- said:

How are the Entrati alive if they got assimilated by the infested?

The Entrati likely owe the retention of their faculties to science, and likely whatever concotions they take to keep themselves alive, but they have said that they are delaying the inevitable unless a cure is found. even if they can't save their bodies, as long as they can prevent the Hivemind from assimilating their brain, they won't become fully infested. plus there's a chance Infestation might take longer on Orokin bodies, perhaps something to do with Kuva can slow the process down.

10 hours ago, --Councilor_Vay_Hek-- said:

Another thing is why are the Entrati cool with Tenno running around? The Tenno carried out a system wide genocide of the Orokin, so why are they not even remotely concerned about a disembodied armored death machine with space powers rolling up to their door? Sure they may be a dysfunctional family, but you'd think if a terminator that tried to end their species just showed up they'd all be on the same page of not wanting anything to do with it.

two factors here. one is time, Son himself mentions that had the infestation not taken hold, he would have been married off to someone else and then killed when the tenno started to wipe out the Orokin. notably he says "our time had more than come". it seems even Son was aware of the hubris, greed and incompetence of the Orokin Empire, and came to the same conclusion everyone else did: if the Sentients or whatever else, didn't wipe out the Orokin first, the golden lords would destroy themselves, and either way, the rest of the system would go down with it (see: The Collapse). just because he's Orokin, doesn't necessarily mean he agreed with every single thing the Empire did. many milennia have passed sicne we killed the Orokin, and I'd say the Entrati have much bigger problems than worrying about the tenno.

the other factor is desperation; nobody even knows the Entrati is alive apart from us and Latrox Une, and every Corpus or Grineer patrol that finds it's way to deimos doesnt last long before they are overwhelmed and killed by Infested. nobody was coming to help them as far as they were concerned, so when the Tenno,  who are by the way, godlike warriors immune to the Infestation, it's basically like them having every Christmas, birthday and Naberus come at once, and if it turned out the tenno were just looking to kill them for being Orokin, they know they wouldn't be able to fight back and be granted the sweet release of death: either way, they would be free of the Infestation, one way or another.

fortunately for them  though, we too had put our past aside and saw no reason not to help them. the Entrati also consider any non-infested beings as allies, hence why she asks to you to protect Garv's Grineer crew who land on Deimos.

TLDR:

- Orokin physiology/mad science keeps infestation slowed but not cured.

- Orokin Genocide happened forever ago, a lot has happened since then for both Entrati and Tenno. 

- even Son knows how incredibly d0uchey the Orokin were

- when you're stranded and stuck on an infested planet where every rescue party is eaten alive, you're not gonna say no to space ninja demigods with total immunity from the infested helping you make life more bearable.

 

[(XBOX)CI shadow2397]

8 hours ago, -JT-_-R3W1ND said:

That's what actually ppl think then they hear about "lost civilisation", but for now, i'm not sure has it been at least 10 years.

Tenno have been asleep for a few thousand years