Everyone hates the Corpus Ship defence map right?

[SneakyErvin]

19 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

I really struggle to understand why you're defending this awful tile.  There is a happy medium between this tile and the close quarters insta-nuke spam of Hydron/Helene.... it's called basically every other defense tile.

Because it isnt as bad as people claim when in a group. I've only had slow times in there with lazy and passive groups. For solo play I wouldnt mind a different map, but then again designing something for solo would only make it more boring in a group. As I said, it is also a wonderful tile as it is for arbitration defense and all types of  interception, regular defense is not the only thing going on in that map.

The only thing the map really needs are pathing improvements or a few spawn locations changed in order to improve the flow and stop possible "stuck" enemies. Or they could just simply remove the drone mobs from the map which tend to be the mobs that get stuck when their "handler" is killed and no one is close by to shield.

[OwlOfJune]

11 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

 

The only thing the map really needs are pathing improvements or a few spawn locations changed in order to improve the flow and stop possible "stuck" enemies. Or they could just simply remove the drone mobs from the map which tend to be the mobs that get stuck when their "handler" is killed and no one is close by to shield.

So you are agreeing that this map has several issues...

Which makes this map worse in compared to others, since they don't have same problem.

Conclusion : This map is worst as Defense tile.

[SneakyErvin]

10 minutes ago, OwlOfJune said:

So you are agreeing that this map has several issues...

Which makes this map worse in compared to others, since they don't have same problem.

Conclusion : This map is worst as Defense tile.

I actually dislike the massive open "terminus" map more, since it is horrible solo, in groups and in arbitrations. Only saving grace is if you have a Rev with you that knows how to cheese.

edit: And it isnt even interesting as a an interception map.

[OwlOfJune]

3 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I actually dislike the massive open "terminus" map more, since it is horrible solo, in groups and in arbitrations. Only saving grace is if you have a Rev with you that knows how to cheese.

edit: And it isnt even interesting as a an interception map.

Yeah that map is pretty bad too, taking around 1 min and 30 sec per wave on average.

However, this new Corpus map can and has taken like 3 min per wave. And while it was random squad team, they were all doing kills and everything. This map has serious pathing issues which even you mentioned, and that needs fixing.

Even better if they look at both maps and fix the AI spawn in Defense at general.

[SneakyErvin]

Just now, OwlOfJune said:

Yeah that map is pretty bad too, taking around 1 min and 30 sec per wave on average.

However, this new Corpus map can and has taken like 3 min per wave. And while it was random squad team, they were all doing kills and everything. This map has serious pathing issues which even you mentioned, and that needs fixing.

Even better if they look at both maps and fix the AI spawn in Defense at general.

And I fully agree that pathing and spawning could use a touch up. The odd thing though is that there is never a pathing issue in arbitrations on the map and it is also perfectly playable solo with good cleartimes. Maybe there is too much clutter on the way to the middle that confuses the A.I. Like boxes, ledges, walls that are never really used and so on.

[EdinaMonsoon]

i hate all defence maps equally

[Monolake]

Yeah it's a poorly made map, wonder if it was tested at all  - same glaring problems with AI pathing as we have on some other sprawling maps that no one likes, its boring and it pads the waves time with wait or trying to find the mobs.

We badly need more good defense maps cause the current rotation is small and few maps like this are borderline unplayable.

Why not turn some ESO tiles into def maps?

[Danielw8]

8 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And why not play Saryn and other AoE nukes on the ship tile when people already do it on every other defense tile? O.o

I dont see why people complain over using Saryn and Bramma when maps like the ship tile have been designed just because frames like Saryn have been so dominating in the mission type for years. I dont think there is any defense tile where I'd pick up a single target weapon or barely even melee if I actually worry about the completion time.

And changing the tileset to cater to snooze chart defense would destroy it for arbitrations aswell as interception. Oddly enough no mobs get stuck when doing Arbi defense on the ship tile. So maybe the simplest solution would be to give all defense missions the arbitration treatment, with a moving, living defense objective.

You still not understeand the whole point,  and at this point its a waste of time

You need understeand what is the goal behind defense missions, what you get from there, and how you play it. As an example and this is my last answer, my favorite defense tileset its that one from ceres, with raining weather and the objetive is on the electric train

[Venus-Venera]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb Monolake:

Yeah it's a poorly made map, wonder if it was tested at all  - same glaring problems with AI pathing as we have on some other sprawling maps that no one likes, its boring and it pads the waves time with wait or trying to find the mobs.

We badly need more good defense maps cause the current rotation is small and few maps like this are borderline unplayable.

Why not turn some ESO tiles into def maps?

it is exactly like that! AI has extreme problems and runs like grandpa. Moreover, even beginners fall asleep because there is hardly any action.
the mode must be completely revised. but that won't happen anytime soon. A quick solution could be: small and flat map and many more opponents at the beginning.

[SneakyErvin]

12 hours ago, Danielw8 said:

You still not understeand the whole point,  and at this point its a waste of time

You need understeand what is the goal behind defense missions, what you get from there, and how you play it. As an example and this is my last answer, my favorite defense tileset its that one from ceres, with raining weather and the objetive is on the electric train

I really dont understand your goal since one second you complain about certain defense setups rendering your melee and ranged non-AoE pointless and at the same time you complain about cleartimes. That in itself is a paradox since cleartimes with guns/melee will never compete with the cleartime of AoE frames in the trivial defense content we experience on the specific maps in question. It really doesnt matter which map it is honestly since a gun will never reach every single mob within 50+ meters in a single click of a button.

How often do you run Hydron and feel it actually worthwhile to shoot or melee in there if atleast 1 "proper" frame is present? For me the answer is never. And the same really goes for every other defense tile aswell, walled in or 100% open, it just doesnt matter.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

Yes and they keep making wf 4th abilities that require los. If your going to do that you can`t make tilesets with so many places to hide get get trapped in that`s why frames likes Saryn and Equinox are desirable. Either make those tilesets and make wf abilities that ignore los or stop making those tilesets and make wf that require los, you can`t have both.

[DarknessNightshade]

Honestly there's a few reasons I don't like this specific tile:

- The gimmick of the crypod moving between floors like it's trying to be Hydron or something, you have to go out of your way a good couple seconds to go outside of that room, go up the stairs, up down the hallway and up another set of stairs until you get the objective again.

- Enemy spawns are abysmal, this mixed with the multi-level design and huge spaces make for some really, really slow gameplay, huge spaces are made to be filled, Defence is a drip-fed mission type, and would be much better off with something like the Reactor tile we see in railjack, still multi-level, but mostly flat and no huge open areas.

- Even with max range on my saryn, I can't infect the one or two enemies sitting just outside of my range from near the objective, forcing me to go out of my way to go and find them or wait for them to path to me just to start the next wave, making it one of the slowest Defense nodes to play, especially if you're forced to play it for Syndicate missions (which I get on the regular).

- The objective is well defended by the walls surrounding it on the lower floor, but it severely limits what you can shoot at between the 4 doorways, that don't even have visuals on the staircases, again forcing you to wait or go and fidn that one drone or enemy waiting outside of your range to finish the wave.

- Slow enemy speeds mean frames like Nova are necessary to speed things up, which means switching to Nova just for corpus or railjack tilesets or having to rely on team composition in public lobbies for a gamemode people only grind for ash, which is another one of DE's attempts at getting a certain game mode to be populated: Unfun grind =/= player numbers.

 

There's only one good scenario for this tileset and that's with arbitrations where you can move the objective and manipulate the enemies to funnel towards one hallway or room, even then the enemy pathing slows it down near the end of each wave, thanks to enemies spawning on the upper levels on the opposite side of the map.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

On 2021-07-04 at 11:25 AM, Krankbert said:

Some of us like to actually play games for the gameplay, not as something to keep our hands busy while watching TV. This tedious, boring snooze-fest of a map is anti-thetical to that.

But what am I talking to people who think "I'm just lazy" because I think I should have to defend the objective in a Defense mission instead of running around the entire map picking off harmless enemies individually because bad pathing gets enemies stuck all the way back to their spawn point.

So, you claim you "enjoy the gameplay"... but then complain that the game pushes you, in this map, to actually PLAY THE GAME rather than sit and wait for enemies to come to you/the defense point? 

I think you need to try making your "point" again...

On 2021-07-05 at 1:52 PM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Yes and they keep making wf 4th abilities that require los. If your going to do that you can`t make tilesets with so many places to hide get get trapped in that`s why frames likes Saryn and Equinox are desirable. Either make those tilesets and make wf abilities that ignore los or stop making those tilesets and make wf that require los, you can`t have both.

No.  How the hell do some people on these forums keep nagging DE to "add difficulty to the game", but then ALSO request/demand that the game allow them "straight line of sight or easy access to hitting the enemies without moving"?  

There are OBSTACLES.  MOVE around them!  You're playing WARFRAME!  You can jump, fly, wall-run, teleport, slide.....   MOVE.  If something is in the way, move AROUND it.  I don't see the issue here.  The devs are just asking you to PLAY the GAME.

[Krankbert]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb (PSN)JustJoshinEnt:

So, you claim you "enjoy the gameplay"... but then complain that the game pushes you, in this map, to actually PLAY THE GAME rather than sit and wait for enemies to come to you/the defense point? 

I think you need to try making your "point" again...

Yeah, clearly when I complained about a map being a "boring snooze-fest" what I meant is that I'd rather "sit and wait". Ten points for reading comprehension, you're a real genius.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

15 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

Yeah, clearly when I complained about a map being a "boring snooze-fest" what I meant is that I'd rather "sit and wait". Ten points for reading comprehension, you're a real genius.

Then where's the issue?  My reading comprehension isn't the problem... You're just not making the points you think you're making.

[Krankbert]

vor 12 Minuten schrieb (PSN)JustJoshinEnt:

Then where's the issue?  My reading comprehension isn't the problem... You're just not making the points you think you're making.

I'm making the points I intend to make. The fact that there are unimaginative and intellictually dishonest people on this forum who have absolutely no argument of their own and will maliciously misinterpret anything I write isn't really something I can change. You chose to twist and misinterprete my words, and if I rephrase it and explain it again you will just do it again.

Edit: Also let me add that I find it absolutely baffling that all the incompetents on this forum are trying to convince each other that actually the small maps where you're swarmed by enemies are the boring ones where you sit around and wait, and the real action is on the huge maps where you mostly just run around and the enemies can be picked off harmlessly one by one where they got stuck in the scenery. I have no clue what game you're all talking about, but it can't possibly be this one.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

9 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

I'm making the points I intend to make. The fact that there are unimaginative and intellictually dishonest people on this forum who have absolutely no argument of their own and will maliciously misinterpret anything I write isn't really something I can change. You chose to twist and misinterprete my words, and if I rephrase it and explain it again you will just do it again.

Edit: Also let me add that I find it absolutely baffling that all the incompetents on this forum are trying to convince each other that actually the small maps where you're swarmed by enemies are the boring ones where you sit around and wait, and the real action is on the huge maps where you mostly just run around and the enemies can be picked off harmlessly one by one where they got stuck in the scenery.

More Ad Homs and Strawmanning?  

Dude... I've MADE my case for this map already, several times..   It's "big", yes.  It's used for MORE than just the Defense.  It's also used in RJ, where NECRAMECHS are summonable, which REQUIRES such space.  It also fits the new Corpus tileset aesthetic of "bigger space"/"grander".  

With regards to pacing, I have PERSONALLY played this tileset DOZENS of times, if not hundreds, and never have an issue killing the enemies.  YES, it can take longer than Hydron.  NO, that's not a real problem.  I move around, I don't just camp at the cryopod, and I get to the enemies in SECONDS.  Use of AoE weapons/frames helps clear enemies faster.  Use of crewmates/spectres helps.  It's a non-issue.

The only reason "clear time" becomes an issue is because YOU make it one... there is no penalty in the game for taking 5 more minutes to clear a mission than you'd like.  Sure, it's "less efficient", but where's the rush?  The game isn't shutting down tomorrow.  There's no need to farm ALL THE THINGZ today, much less in "record time".

And no, smaller defense maps AREN'T any more "Exciting" (though that was never MY argument, but I digress)...   You can even MORE easily deal with maps like Hydron with just *Be Saryn, Spam 4*.   Not how I would play, but the fact remains that it requires LESS of you than a bigger map, and so NO it isn't "more challenging".  It's the same thing with less footwork.

So I've made my case... now, let's see if you can make yours without attacking the PEOPLE who are making points, and rather just discussing POINTS, THEMSELVES.

[Krankbert]

vor 1 Minute schrieb (PSN)JustJoshinEnt:

With regards to pacing, I have PERSONALLY played this tileset DOZENS of times, if not hundreds, and never have an issue killing the enemies.  

As I said, I have no idea what game you're playing but it can't be this one. Because in this game, the map we're talking about has pathing issues that consistently cause enemies to get stuck.

[(PSN)nerdlegend]

I hate this map and avoid it, need to push the spawns way closer together or make the map smaller. Could cut the map into two new maps if you wanted. 

[Prexades]

Mobs tend to get stuck quite often and the verticality doesn't help in locating them.  It also feels out of place in the RJ defense missions, as the area is too big for the ships hull. It reminds me a bit of an old Star Trek movie where 2 characters were fighting in an area inside the saucer section that is maybe 10 decks wide and suddenly there is a shaft that looks like it is going far too deep for the entire hull.

This kind of errors in continuity and sense of scale, always annoy me in games and movies.

[helpmeeplzzz]

The raljack mission should be rename such as space field service mission, after all we spend least 80% time to do the stupid field task , specifically the carpus, the stupidest mission on this game :(

[Loza03]

4 hours ago, (PSN)nerdlegend said:

I hate this map and avoid it, need to push the spawns way closer together or make the map smaller. Could cut the map into two new maps if you wanted. 

Honestly, keep it as an interception map and make a new defence map. Hell, do that for all the single-tile maps, I think Earth is the only planet that has a dedicated interception tile and a dedicated defence tile, and that's good because the needs are totally different.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

5 hours ago, Krankbert said:

As I said, I have no idea what game you're playing but it can't be this one. Because in this game, the map we're talking about has pathing issues that consistently cause enemies to get stuck.

*gasp* You mean YOUR experience doesn't define the ENTIRETY of the playerbases' experiences?  Ya don't say!

Yeah, dude... I stream several times a week, and we're often running missions here..   In fact, I use this tileset for leveling my Necramech/Archguns pretty often.  It's quick if you're not just standing around waiting for the enemies.

It's not the QUICKEST map, no, but it doesn't NEED to be.  Warframe is not a race, it's a marathon...  If you think otherwise, it's you adding that pressure around time, not the devs.

[sitfesz]

9 hours ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

*gasp* You mean YOUR experience doesn't define the ENTIRETY of the playerbases' experiences?  Ya don't say!

Yeah, dude... I stream several times a week, and we're often running missions here..   In fact, I use this tileset for leveling my Necramech/Archguns pretty often.  It's quick if you're not just standing around waiting for the enemies.

It's not the QUICKEST map, no, but it doesn't NEED to be.  Warframe is not a race, it's a marathon...  If you think otherwise, it's you adding that pressure around time, not the devs.

Yeah we get it, you are fine being slow and you like this map, because you are probably slow everywhere else too. It's just your opinion that it's fine and telling your opinion more and more won't validate it, and you already told us your opinion, so time to shut it if you can only repeat "SLOW not bad, you just JUMP, NEVER got enemies STUCK... HIDE and SEEK is GAME".

Hiding enemies in defense tiles are not okay. Stuck enemies are not okay. The map is slow, because enemies are stuck in obstacles or stuck in cover. Moving around 1/3 of the tileset for single enemy kills must be so rewarding on the necramech progress I might try it once I ate a good amount of glue.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

40 minutes ago, sitfesz said:

It's just your opinion that it's fine and telling your opinion more and more won't validate it, and you already told us your opinion, so time to shut it

Solid advice. You should follow it. :)