(PSN)sister-hawk Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 1 hour ago, (PSN)Jmazing7 said: just curious about how the gameplay works with the lore. It doesn’t. At least not yet. There has never been any explanation given as to how we slap warframes together in our foundry. Some people will try to tell you that only the original Orokin warframes are made from people and that the ones made from our foundry and purely robotic, but that is flat out wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leqesai Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 22 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said: "Ordis, where's the fourth screw? WHERE IS IT?! no, I didn't drop it, it's supposed to have 4 screws, I only have 3!!" "Why did I end up with leftover pieces...." (Xaku is born) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Unstar Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Leqesai said: Furthermore Second Dream is hardly a spoiler at this point. This should be obvious, but I'll say it anyway: it's a spoiler for everyone who hasn't done it. Just because people are late to the party doesn't mean they've lost the right to have a fresh experience. Something I am constantly proud of is how great the overall Warframe community is about doing their best to not spoil The Second Dream for new players, both in-game and out-of-game; it's a kindness that I wouldn't expect from most gaming communities, and it's a thing of beauty to see. If you'd like to go against that kindness and instead be the kind of person who doesn't mind spoiling the party for others, I suppose that's a choice you can make. Go wild and live your best life! But don't try to act like others should approve of that kind of indifferent behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leqesai Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 25 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said: This should be obvious, but I'll say it anyway: it's a spoiler for everyone who hasn't done it. Just because people are late to the party doesn't mean they've lost the right to have a fresh experience. Something I am constantly proud of is how great the overall Warframe community is about doing their best to not spoil The Second Dream for new players, both in-game and out-of-game; it's a kindness that I wouldn't expect from most gaming communities, and it's a thing of beauty to see.If you'd like to go against that kindness and instead be the kind of person who doesn't mind spoiling the party for others, I suppose that's a choice you can make. Go wild and live your best life! But don't try to act like others should approve of that kind of indifferent behavior. If you could forward this stentiment onto the game's developers that would be great. Because they openly discuss operators and post-second dream content on the regular without spoiler warnings. Like I said in my post, the patch notes specifically include content related to operators. They do not label operator-content as spoiler anymore. It is nice that you cling to tired ideals but this is 2021, my dude. The "spoiler" you're talking about is no longer relevant. Just like Aerith being killed, Seeing dead people, Snape killing Dumbledore etc. Once content has existed for long enough it isn't the responsibility of the majority to protect the tiny number of people who haven't already been spoiled. If you want to do this then good for you, but don't project those false expectations onto others. Especially when the developers don't share your sentiments. I'm not saying jumping in and spoiling stuff is very cool but at the same time the entire issue you've brought up is: A: Not appropriate because the person you're trying to protect is not a new player B: On a game forum where content related to what you determine "spoiler" is openly discussed by both the community and the developers DE used to mark spoiler of second dream content but then they stopped. They stopped because 99% of the community has done the quest, knows about the quest, or has enough braincells to put two and two together when the game throws exposure of Operators at you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiga Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 2 hours ago, (PSN)sister-hawk said: It doesn’t. At least not yet. There has never been any explanation given as to how we slap warframes together in our foundry. Some people will try to tell you that only the original Orokin warframes are made from people and that the ones made from our foundry and purely robotic, but that is flat out wrong. The helminth. The helminth literally does this for us, it says so, ballas says so, they're not purely robotic at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--EC--Adrenaline Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 We haven't been given a specific explanation on how the crafting works but it becomes kinda obvious at some point if you pay attention to details Quoting Ordis: "Ordis cannot remember, but there does seem to be a... relationship... between your Warframes and the Infestation. I would be careful in here, Operator. Domesticated or not, Ordis does not trust this thing." Helminth is basically responsible for putting together/maintaining/pulling apart any warframe you have/had Although some new animations on the ship would be awesome, I guess they can't be bothered to replace the hologram with something else, though it's kind of a missed opportunity when they redesigned the orbiter interior around the time when railjack released Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brinstar7777 Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 5 hours ago, (PSN)Jmazing7 said: So from my understanding of what the warframes are, they are made by infecting people with the helminth strain of the technocyte virus. And yes I do know that there are multiple iterations of each warframe, whether it be made during or after the old war, or made by the orokin (which would make it a prime I believe?) or made by some third party. But now when we as the players obtain the blueprints for the warframes, we craft robotic parts. Now unless Ordis is lying to us and every time we craft a warframe he kidnaps a person and infects them with the helminth strain, I don't see how we are crafting the warframes without a human surrogate. I believe that we're just cloning warframes with the vanilla models, and putting Orokin-era warframe back together again by extracting their components from void relics, hence why you aren't required to 'acquire' a human surrogate in-game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Yggranya Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 5 hours ago, RazerXPrime said: (cept for Umbra?) Which begs the question: since umbra was built the same way as all the rest (Ordis can build "sentient" clones of creatures? Wow...), why is it different? Answer is plot convenie...i mean space mag... i mean sweet magical science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayArchon Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 3 hours ago, (PSN)sister-hawk said: There has never been any explanation given 3 hours ago, (PSN)sister-hawk said: that is flat out wrong Lol. Which is it? Is there an explanation or isn't there? If not, then what are you relying on to say that "the ones made from our foundry and[sic] purely robotic" is "wrong"? 1 hour ago, Leqesai said: Because they openly discuss operators and post-second dream content on the regular without spoiler warnings. Like I said in my post, the patch notes specifically include content related to operators. Generally speaking, players that are invested enough into the game to watch DevStreams, read patch notes, and follow the developers on Twitter are advanced players who will have done the Second Dream. I think the percentage of new, MR2 players who are still futzing around Saturn that watch DevStreams where Operator content is discussed is quite low. Ergo, I'm not sure that's the best support for your position. Granted, the percentage of new players that browses the Forum reading about lore is also probably low, but I'd assume higher than in the other case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)GearsMatrix301 Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 Only the Umbras were people. the Primes and regulars are just condensed Helminth strain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leqesai Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 23 minutes ago, GrayArchon said: Generally speaking, players that are invested enough into the game to watch DevStreams, read patch notes, and follow the developers on Twitter are advanced players who will have done the Second Dream. I think the percentage of new, MR2 players who are still futzing around Saturn that watch DevStreams where Operator content is discussed is quite low. Ergo, I'm not sure that's the best support for your position. Granted, the percentage of new players that browses the Forum reading about lore is also probably low, but I'd assume higher than in the other case. It isn't relevant whether or not there are a small % of players unaware of plot spoilers when the devs, regardless of who is or is not watching, have openly stated that they are no longer marking operators as a spoiler. Also, the players that have yet to complete second dream are very likely to encounter players using their operators. I mean... Cetus/Plains of Eidolon is a required node before clearing the second dream right? How many players wander around Cetus in operator form? I see people in operator form regularly... What about Fortuna? Point is, I find it very very unlikely that any new player actually get to and complete the second dream quest without seeing an operator. They may not know that second dream unlocks that feature but talking about operators still doesn't spoil that bit of information. But I hear what you're saying. I just whole-heartedly disagree that this is a topic worth making a big deal over. If it was a plot related thing on content released a week ago, and the devs are actively marking spoilers, sure. But stuff that was released years ago and 99.9% of the playerbase knows about? Gimme a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayArchon Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 49 minutes ago, Leqesai said: the devs, regardless of who is or is not watching, have openly stated that they are no longer marking operators as a spoiler Have they ever openly stated that or did they just stop bothering to hide them? Because I definitely don't think those are the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheikaVoid Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 The Second Dream has been out for ages, sure, knowing about Operators ruins the surprise, but the Quest remains excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)sister-hawk Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 1 hour ago, GrayArchon said: Lol. Which is it? Is there an explanation or isn't there? If not, then what are you relying on to say that "the ones made from our foundry and[sic] purely robotic" is "wrong"? We know how warframes are made because The Sacrifice tells us. Unless specifically stated otherwise, we can only assume that this applies to every warframe, because why wouldn’t it? They are all alive. They all squirt blood when wounded, they all need life support in space. We have no reason to believe anything else. The notion that the Tenno-built frames are purely robotic is just a misconception that some people have. There’s never been any indication that this is the case. Is that good enough for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dairaion Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 7 hours ago, (PSN)Jmazing7 said: If you didn't catch the spoiler tag, this is your final warning. I guess I need to preface this with saying yes I have completed all of the quests and I am currently MR 28 and just curious about how the gameplay works with the lore. So from my understanding of what the warframes are, they are made by infecting people with the helminth strain of the technocyte virus. And yes I do know that there are multiple iterations of each warframe, whether it be made during or after the old war, or made by the orokin (which would make it a prime I believe?) or made by some third party. But now when we as the players obtain the blueprints for the warframes, we craft robotic parts. Now unless Ordis is lying to us and every time we craft a warframe he kidnaps a person and infects them with the helminth strain, I don't see how we are crafting the warframes without a human surrogate. Please let me know if I misunderstand something, I by no means think I am totally fluent in the entire story of warframe. Here is where I got all my information on the background of the warframes. https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Story_and_History mixed with some of my own codex reading. simple, warframe parts represent major body regions. systems are organ, neuroptics skull, chassis skeleton, etc. because the helminth virus is said to coat the warframe in living steel it's assumed that the virus infects the cell and transforms it into a nano machine. this would allow the parts to be reassembled by the foundry then the helminth in your ship to cultivate whatever organic material is left to fill in the spaces between the major systems and blueprint which likely represents the shell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarenaBot Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 2 hours ago, Leqesai said: I mean... Cetus/Plains of Eidolon is a required node before clearing the second dream right? How many players wander around Cetus in operator form? I see people in operator form regularly... What about Fortuna? I could be wrong about this or it could have been a feature they talked about but didn't implement, but I believe operators in hubs are invisible to players who haven't completed Second Dream. They aren't in missions though I think so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teliko_Freedman Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 Maybe they Developed the Warframes by infecting people. Then they dissected everything, made Blueprints of how everything is built/assembled, and made a new Operating System for your Operator to control it with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elenortirie Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 The way I see it is: original first batch of warframes was made with infecting people with helminth strain, but after that process was infestigated and understood, orokin started designing new frames from raw materials and recreating the patterns with basically molecular 3d-printers. This would fit how titania was supposedely developped by some rando archimedian. And what we are doing is grabbing blueprints, and bunch of same raw materials and reprint new copies of design. 2 hours ago, (NSW)Larena said: I could be wrong about this or it could have been a feature they talked about but didn't implement, but I believe operators in hubs are invisible to players who haven't completed Second Dream. They aren't in missions though I think so I recall some wonkery going on in mission with people going operator mode with teammates that didn't complete second dream/war within. 3 hours ago, (PSN)sister-hawk said: We know how warframes are made because The Sacrifice tells us. Unless specifically stated otherwise, we can only assume that this applies to every warframe, because why wouldn’t it? They are all alive. They all squirt blood when wounded, they all need life support in space. We have no reason to believe anything else. Technically speaking, The Sacrifice only tells us how original batch of frames was made, not how all of them were made. There is no reason for orokin - once they understood the process, to not be able to reprint copies of the originals from raw materials, without new people involved. Also that interpretation seems to collide with silver grove that states that at least titania was designed and built by a team under archimedian. And considering orokin tech I also see no issue with them being able to 3dprint living organisms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leqesai Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 8 hours ago, GrayArchon said: Have they ever openly stated that or did they just stop bothering to hide them? Because I definitely don't think those are the same. Unless I'm crazy I'm pretty sure they did openly state this in one of the devstreams awhile back. Would have been a year or two ago. Probably right around the time they stopped marking operators as spoilers in the patch notes. This may have even been as late as Deimos or one or two major patches before this. I'm not going to go looking for the soundbit though. Also, it should be noted that they have featured operators on the launcher in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Jmazing7 Posted June 2, 2021 Author Share Posted June 2, 2021 I would just like to interject here and ask that we please stop debating whether the second dream is or isn't a spoiler in this tread at least. Especially since it all started from someone saying I need a spoiler tag on this post which was there from the very start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)sister-hawk Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 10 hours ago, Elenortirie said: Technically speaking, The Sacrifice only tells us how original batch of frames was made, not how all of them were made. There is no reason for orokin - once they understood the process, to not be able to reprint copies of the originals from raw materials, without new people involved. Also that interpretation seems to collide with silver grove that states that at least titania was designed and built by a team under archimedian. And considering orokin tech I also see no issue with them being able to 3dprint living organisms. What makes sense to you and what is true are two different things. You’re taking a fan theory and stretching the lore to fit it. “The Orokin could conceivably have 3d-printed warframes from raw materials if you use your imagination” does not equal “the Tenno 3d-print warframes from raw materials.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0_The_F00l Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 The way I see it is that warframes are cybernetic organisms powered by space magic. You need all 3 in the right quantity to make it work and each of the parts is unique , The organics for rhino are not the same for nyx, the cybernetics for vauban are different from the cybernetics for protea, and the void magic for mag is different from the void magic of volt. So when you get a blueprint it's for all of it not just the robotics part , think of it as a recipe for a multi level dish. You need to grow the organics with the right gene codes (think of it as your ingredients), Mix ,melt , cast and 3D print the non organics (the kitchen tools and crockery) and then infuse it with just the right void energy for just the right time (like bake , boil, fry , etc.) The frame is the final meal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elenortirie Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 On 2021-06-02 at 8:04 PM, (PSN)sister-hawk said: What makes sense to you and what is true are two different things. You’re taking a fan theory and stretching the lore to fit it. “The Orokin could conceivably have 3d-printed warframes from raw materials if you use your imagination” does not equal “the Tenno 3d-print warframes from raw materials.” Ok if we want to be completely technically correct, (which is best kind of correct) what I am doing in here, is taking lore that is full of holes, and a handfull of self contradictions and am trying to fill in those holes in most reasonable way. The foundry literaly plays out animation of process that resembles high-tech 3d printing, and with small objects you can even see the object being actually there in scale (guns mainly). Silver Grove mentions quite bluntly that titania is a project developed by a team under archimedian that hates the fact she is now part of weaponry development. Sacrifice says..... "We took our greatest, volunteers or not, and polluted them with these cultured reagents. They transformed. They became Infested..." "... but only just. Their skin blossomed into sword-steel. Their organs, interlinked with untold resilience. Yet their minds were free of the Infested madness. Or so we thought. We set them upon the battlefield, bio-drones under our command." "The Warframes... All of them... failures. Surprised? They turned on us, just as you did. And so we had no choice but to commit them to grave." Note: Excalibur Umbra was locked away on lua. Which supports idea that it was first batch that "got committed to grave" Soooooo, now I will let you do 2 + 2, yourself. Commited to a grave first batch made by infecting people with specific infestation strain, and archimedian in charge of >development< new warframes specifically for tenno to use at war. (And an essentially 3d-printer in a ship that remembers orokin era) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvid Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 On 2021-06-02 at 2:40 AM, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said: Only the Umbras were people. Citation needed on this. We know that the first waves were converted humans, but there's nothing stating that that had anything to do with Umbra models (especially since there's currently only one Umbra that we know of). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)GearsMatrix301 Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 3 hours ago, Corvid said: Citation needed on this. We know that the first waves were converted humans, but there's nothing stating that that had anything to do with Umbra models (especially since there's currently only one Umbra that we know of). We already have 3 series of Warframe types and the “Protoframes” that are Necramechs. Do you really want another series of frames? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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