Dev Workshop: The Arsenal Divide

[jesusdh]

What 's the problem that the community was saying: Weapons are struggling to KILL ENEMIES on Steel Path;
What's DE solution: Gain extra damage ON KILL.

Just change the On Kill to Hit, then when the weapon finally kills the enemy it can keep up the rampage.

[Sadraven]

I have a feeling that I missed a lot of things, maybe someone will enlighten me.
1. So primary and secondary guns are week, that's why we will get a nerf to melee. I think I missed something, something like "Melee weapons are too strong in this PvE game." Did someone one shot some non existent raid boss with a knoife?
2. You can't stuck a speed on melee. What about slow melee weapons? I would love to see someone would play with a hummer after the patch with the worst stances we have for hummers. So the prices for the rivens will increase...
3. It's an overall melee nerf (speed, CO, BR). Before that I could go to a Steel Path and use any melee weapon for an easier part of the content, and I could use any melee weapon in Sorties or Star Chart. Right now you will decrease the amount of weapon that will be usable. If you looked at Volnus Prime and reviews you could see that it's an "Ok weapon", and a lot of weapons after the nerf will be less usable. And we will get something like "Riper Prime is used by 30% of players, we HAD to nerf it", because it is how it is right now. Look at Nukor for example. I don't know where is a diversity in this.
4. One more about Steel Path. It was said that DE will not focus on Steel Path, and right now we have a game balance because of Steel Path.
5. We have arcanes for guns. So lets' take a gun. We will need 3 forma at least, with new mods 4-5 forma (since all mods are rank 10), exilus adapter, and arcane aperture right now. We have to grind for all of that, or we will have to spend plat. How much work or money will it be to make one gun usable? What about all guns to max it out? The grind and price will be bad probably (certainly?), built forma and some SE for BP. So it's just another 20 plat, another 20 plat or 40, just a little bit more..?
6. We have rank 5 arcanes. That's 21 arcanes to max it. Include rng to it. 6 arcanes to max. How much SE will you have to get for that?
7. Just a simple question about the balance in the game. Is it good? Will adding 6 more arcanes and 9 more mods will help balance team to work?
8. Kuva Nukor nerf. So right now we will come to Epitaph and Zakti (that's not all options, but for example), but we will have to use Prime Sure Footed to use them, so that's less diversity again? PSF is already a meta by the way...
So let's imagine, I want Latron Prime to be good. I will need to spend a lot of time/money for 5 forma, exilus, aperture. Can I use on SP to farm for SE?-No. Will it be good after all this investment?-No.
With all new mods and arcanes the gap between meta weapons and everything else will increase. And some of the melee weapons will be unusable. That will increase diversity for sure...

And about Parazon, sounds and looks awesome. But I don't know hot it will fit in the meta "Gather, Proc, Evaporate".

P.S.
- I can't kill anything with my gun!!!
- Here you go. A mod that will increase your damage on kill!
- ...

P.P.S. Summer Sale soon. Good Luck & Have Fun.

[(PSN)RWalls91]

6 minutes ago, jesusdh said:

What 's the problem that the community was saying: Weapons are struggling to KILL ENEMIES on Steel Path;
What's DE solution: Gain extra damage ON KILL.

Just change the On Kill to Hit, then when the weapon finally kills the enemy it can keep up the rampage.

I fail to understand their logic

[Petroklos]

57 minutes ago, disrawtomato said:

Being logged in your Google Account doesn't change anything, if you don't submit to them age proof. And to check your claim, I visited a bunch of other M-rated YT-videos from other studios. They work just fine, no age-restriction. The only age-restriction I have seen so far is WF and police's body cam videos where someone gets shot. 

There's three things that lock you out of the Video.

1. Your Birthday as stated in your Account. As long as YouTube considers you to be over 18, you can watch the video... in most countries.

2. Your Physical Location. EU Countries, and maybe others, are the ones that demand of YouTube to double check our Age. You can bypass that by using a VPN.

3. Your Country of residence as stated in your Account. If your Account states that you're an EU resident, the video won't play.

If either of these three isn't taken care of, the video will remain blocked for you.

[sitfesz]

On kill buffs are inconvenience as they are specified to the weapons. On kill buffs should work by killing with anything, or even better, find a better mechanic.

Acolyte spawns are a disgrace in non-endless missions and you need to define active play which triggers the acolytes. The missions can be done in a few minutes, so no one wants to wait for acolytes. This is just artifical increase on mission timers.

[Mysandwich]

Instead of making arcanes for the Primaries/Secondaries, make them into "aura/stance" mods for the weapons. Part of what makes primaries/secondaries less accessible is that melee weapons get more mod capacity and dont have an exilus mod slot to worry about.

[Shemarria]

...and the melee nerfs are as bad as I thought.  what's so [cenored] wrong with red crits?🤬

And as many have said; the added arcances / galvanized mods will just increase the divide between 1337 meta-play and , not-so-1337.

[PlanckZero]

I don't get why everyone hates "on kill" effects so much.

I mean all you need to do is not use any weapon that applies a DoT effect, or any warframe abilities that might kill them or have ANY of your teammates kill them.  Super simple and convenient! /s

[anfuerudo]

3 минуты назад, PlanckZero сказал:

I don't get why everyone hates "on kill" effects so much.

I mean all you need to do is not use any weapon that applies a DoT effect, or any warframe abilities that might kill them or have ANY of your teammates kill them.  Super simple and convenient! /s

I sincerely hope this is sarcasm.

[PlanckZero]

1 minute ago, Shemarria said:

...and the nerfs are as bad as I thought.

It's cool though, if you want to offset the nerfs all you heed to do is grind the steel path, burn your credits and endo ranking up new mods, forma all your weapons to fit those new mods, farm out and rank up the new arcanes, unlock the arcane slots on all your weapons and then only kill everything with your weapons so you can actually trigger the on kill effects.  Simple!

[Braneman]

Please take a look at the Stug.

[PlanckZero]

Just now, anfuerudo said:

I sincerely hope this is sarcasm.

I sincerely hope you go and google what /s means and then delete this before anyone else has a chance to laugh at it.

[anfuerudo]

6 minutes ago, PlanckZero said:

I sincerely hope you go and google what /s means and then delete this before anyone else has a chance to laugh at it.

I sincerely hope this bs will die out before I come to care about it.

 

6 minutes ago, Braneman said:

Please take a look at the Stug.

Beware, they might deem it too OP and nerf it.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Remember when Rebecca said that the nerf hammer memes would stop in 2021?

I guess no one at DE did when they decided to take this giant nerf hammer to Melee.

 

[Pajcekralj]

Soooo lemme get this straight. If i wanna make my guns viable, i'd have to grind steel path. However, i can't use said guns before i get the mods and arcanes needed to make them viable. In other words, i'd still end up using melee weapons anyway? I feel like this rework changes nothing...

[Skaleek]

So what you're saying is we have to pay and grind to bring our weapons up to the parity of melee weapons that they should be? Yeah. ok. I don't give a S#&$ about the nerfs to the melee mods. But telling us yeah we know your ranged weapons suck, so go grind these new arcanes and these new arcane unlockers and these new "situational" mods to have a chance to bring them up to snuff. Oh yeah and don't forget to reforma your ENTIRE melee arsenal with nothing to show for it but a slap on the back? Ridiculous in my opinion.

Why are players being punished for your inability to balance your game properly?

[MLGbrine]

With all due respect, I highly disagree with these changes.

When we we initially "warned" of these changes, the devs made sure to mention how they would be minor. However, it does seem like that isn't the case at all.

Blood rush will now increase your weapon's crit chance by 440% instead of 660%. This means that many, many melee weapons that could red crit before won't anymore. This will have the effect of limiting melee diversity; a consolidation of the melee meta to a couple of top tier weapons that can consistently red crit without highly-specialized builds. Why play the mid-high tier weapons? Not being able to consistently red crit diminishes TTK by quite a noticeable amount when you're dealing with very high level enemies, but it also makes the weapon less fun. This isn't a pvp game, why shouldn't we be allowed to continue to get these red numbers with a wide selection of melees?

The nerf to attack speed has the same effect. Many mid-high tier weapons have very low attack speeds, but with good modding, players can give life to these weapons by double-stacking speed mods. Look at Pennant(and Jat Kusar tbh) for example. Since the stance is really, really slow, this weapon feels very sluggish to use in such a fast-paced game. However, with the combination of primed fury and berserker, it not only deals much more DPS, but it is more fun to use; more fluid. When these changes occur, I will not have any more reasons to use Pennant. And so will most players, who will pick weapons like Kronen. Do I really have to rely on gambling rivens for my attack speed buffs?

The buffs to guns seem... interesting. They should indeed make guns way, way more useful, but it does seem like these on-kill mods  would just create a new meta to replace melee; watch as everyone rallies around explosive weapons/plasmor comeback? I don't really mind, it's a PVE god simulator, but it is a strange decision.

The intended goal of the changes (to increase build diversity) can be obtained in a far more successful way by not touching melee, and buffing guns. Otherwise, it does seem like the meta is merely being flipped...

 

PS: never forget how important melee is to the feel of Warframe. You can find better shooting mechanics in other games. Not melee.

[Voltage]

30 minutes ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Except it’s not even going to be additive. Because you literally can’t put them on the same build together.

It could still be additive or multiplicative to quickening or Riven Mods. We need DE to give confirmation how it's calculated.

[Kye_Duo]

the changes to berserker are too much. it should remain on crit. I can see the not stacking with reg fury and was expecting it. I was actually expecting more exclusivity.

there needs to be more with speed changes. it still hurts slow weapons more than fast ones. All the speed mods need to change from a % to a flat increase like you did with range. this would make it so that it helps slower melee more than fast ones

 

the changes to blood rush are meh...could have been worse but i can see why you change them.

 

Is there anyway you could add in more mods like chilling reload, blaze, ice storm, and wildfire with the different elems? making them exclusive would give us more options for all the mods like these.

[Joezone619]

"We aren't going in and changing the stats of every gun in the game"

Then you've already failed before even launching the update. Melee had this exact treatment, having all melee weapon's stats increased, which is what made it so powerful in the first place. By failing to do so with guns, this "arsenal rebalance", has crashed before even getting off the ground.

[Pancoar]

So will you add extra mod capacity to primaries/secondaries that aren't Kuva/Corpus Lich variants? No??? Why do you need to keep making such high cost mods? Hard enough to fit stuff into builds already.

At least make reload mods exilus mods.

[(PSN)waterdog77]

4 hours ago, acevezwing said:

It's hard to tell if it's good without testing but so far my gripe is Berserker's On Kill condition. It's going to be tricky to maintain the buff against hard to kill target especially with its duration nerfed to 10 seconds. But then again it needs field tests.

While it's hard for me to accept the change from On Crit to On Kill, the nerf to its duration is really appalling.

You have better luck with quickening and arcane strike together instead

[TheLexiConArtist]

4 minutes ago, MLGbrine said:

Not being able to consistently red crit diminishes damage by a lot, but it also makes the weapon less fun. 

It really doesn't do that much to the damage. This isn't a game where 'double crits' exponentiate the multiplier, so entire breakpoints after the first are just diminishing less-than-doubles. Not losing an entire 100% breakpoint, but just a portion of the probability of reds, cuts down the difference even more.

Weapons that can no longer perfectly yellow crit are harmed far more, since that's eating into a difference proportion of the entire crit damage multiplier.

[Voltage]

The Galvanized Mods aren't too bad but could the drain be reviewed? Galvanized Chamber is cheaper than Split Chamber and Galvanized Diffusion is more expensive than Barrel Diffusion. Please make Galvanized Mods equal in drain to their original counterparts. You've slowly created the problem Necramechs and Railjack had where u can fully Forma the loadout and not have enough capacity to fill all the slots with maxed rank mods. We already have tight builds such as these:

Also, with Galvanized Acceleration, could Sinister Reach, Ruinous Extension, Lethal Momentum, Fatal Acceleration and Terminal Velocity be reviewed?

• Sinister Reach and Ruinous Extension are not Exilus when Galvanized Acceleration is
• Lethal Momentum, Terminal Velocity, and Fatal Acceleration don't give +beam range while Galvanized Acceleration does
• Galvanized Acceleration, Lethal Momentum, Terminal Velocity, and Fatal Acceleration are percentage based while Sinister Reach and Ruinous Extension are flat range bonuses. 

Range mods for weapons need some consistency, and having projectile speed have value for beam weapons for all +Projectile Speed instances would also buff Zephyr's Jet Stream and other weapons.

Arch-gun Galvanized Mods and Arcanes from Little Duck would be awesome to see as well.

[snoozecruise]

While I welcome many of these changes, I can't help but think there's an escalating problem, and I wonder if it's just too late to go back now. I kind of miss the more deliberate gameplay Warframe used to have (and still does have sometimes), but with all these mods that scale off combos and kills, it just seems to further encourage the "blitz and delete enemies" style play we have now.

I think there never should've been mods that scale off combo count -- combo count should've been exclusively for heavy attacks, and nothing more. With the addition of more mods that scale off kills, it just seems to be doing the same thing for guns. I think on-kill mods shouldn't really exist either, but maybe it's too late for that?