Deconstructor Melee Modding Changes (Sisters of Parvos)

[Jarriaga]

1 hour ago, (PSN)RuTweN said:

Again,you don’t understand the way the statstick frames are meant to be played.

According to whom? The devs themselves or min-maxers?

FYI, all exalted weapons were stat-sticks prior to 2018. DE changed the weapons alone so they were something you can mod for. The logical expectation was for all statstick abilities to get that treatment. In my opinion, that change is long overdue.

1 hour ago, (PSN)RuTweN said:

Stastick frames are casters,if played right you don’t need to use any weapon.

I don't agree with this assessment. These "caster" frame's abilities scale with the melee combo counter as well. Thus, there is an expectation of you using your melee with them rather than sacrificing your melee to them. Yes, they build combo at this moment. No, that was not something you could rely to build using the ability alone prior to Melee 2.9 in October 2019 because scaling the combo counter required thousands of hits instead of 220. Just like the Decaying Dragon Key shield getting issue, people relying on it and building around it is more on the side of oversight resulting from changing a different mechanic than intended use. Not to mention that some of these abilities (Whipclaw) don't offer the function people build around for on their own. After all, Accumulating Whipclaw is an Augment; it is not a a default part of the frame's core ability and design.

1 hour ago, (PSN)RuTweN said:

It’s 3 warframes…is doesn’t affect the health of the game you have close to 50 to choose from

Yes it does. The performance expectations trickle down. Just today, Brozime made a video highlighting the secondary weapons that will benefit the most from the new arcanes and mods. Only 5 weapons, with his conclusion being that "You may notice a pattern of AoE, this is what is expected to be good from now on". That mentality is a problem, and the same mentality applies to just 3 WF's that dominate because of the ability to indirectly use Rivens.

1 hour ago, (PSN)RuTweN said:

asking for changes on frames that you don’t understand on the other hand,is not healthy for the game

The irony here is that you are judging the game based on the current state of the game and confidently highlighting "how they are meant to be played" totally oblivious (Willingly or not) to how those very same frames operated before when originally introduced and how the current way they play seem to be leftover oversights from systematic changes made to other systems in 2018 and 2019 rather than the frames themselves. Being disingenuous or ignorant about history while accusing others of not understanding something only makes you look foolish on top of arrogant.

[TTraw]

Now, please, make sentinels actually worth using.

[OG_Smez]

When are y'all gonna realise that by deleting one meta you just create another. Stop dropping things into your game and then taking them away. Do more solid testing instead of rush releases leading to ambush nerfs all the time due to "oversights". This is just because you realised your nefs to BR were going to make players choose deconstructor/helios as their primary companion.

Also the reasoning that it's an oversight lived with for years, why is that not the attitude towards more serious game breaking issues that we have lived with for years..

[-Zoe]

10分钟前 , TensorAn 说:

They are not gonna make other companions better.

They gonna nerf smeeta... 🤣

No doubt they're gonna nerf smeeta. The question is how long before they actually do that? I'd rather to see smeeta getting nerfed RIGHT NOW and simply quit the game after DE nerfing things people actually like for so many times.

[Paranoicon]

This is a change I, personally, care very little for.
I don't think I've been using Gladiator mods on Helios, and I wasn't planning to start now.

It is hilariously transparent in its purpose, and what influenced it, though. Doubly so given how flimsy the reasoning is.

 

That said: I do hope that other oversights that have existed for years can get fixed as well. I don't expect it, but that doesn't mean I'm not hoping it happens.

Spoiler

CoughcoughUnivacoughcough

 

[CanOfCraig]

so will there be something to make equipping a weapon to a sentinel valid in place of this? I've felt like it was always the role of companions to support the Tenno damage, so maybe in place of this can we have something that fills this role, but perhaps in a reduced capacity to what was going on?

I know it's a long standing issue that most pets have little to no value while others exist - and that's fine, but maybe this is an opportunity to look at the long standing issues of pets, and not think "oh yeah, you can just replace a valuable mod space, or even more valuable skill space to revive your pet that died because it wasn't designed to last in the high end content we're pushing towards our players"

TL;DR

I'm asking that in place of these changes (that were a long time coming) give us something to make companions more durable (or just make it so they don't die so we can mod them in fun and interesting ways rather than every defensive mod + one or two we actually want), and useful by giving them traits that support our damage, and defensive capabilities. 

[(PSN)nerdlegend]

I can understand why this was done, but need to address weakness of exalted melees and allow them to use more mods options.  Scaling on certain ones is well bad. 

*Worth saying that ranged weapons on pets works in similar way yet no change. I guess this was just another oversight right? Can we just remove stat sticks let us mod weapons and more mods exalted weapons

What I don't like is the fact you wait until day before major update to tell us. 

What I don't like is the fact none of this was tested on PTS. Most of the balance changes could have been done months ago with PTS feedback. 

Problem is the gap between high crit and low crit is huge now. 

Okay let's be real give WF a level cap and balanced around that. Don't forget changing rivens so they  more in line with goal. Right now rivens looks like cash cow slot machine. 

[Deoxystp]

I believe if you keep this change then you need to really consider making one of these changes; buffing the mod so it can more easily earn it's spot on our melees, the reason why we rather put these mods on a companion is because there isn't room on the general melee build for another gladiator mod or even room for a mod like proton snap. Removing this functionality will simply cause some of these mods to never see the light of day. The other issue is that acolyte mods do not get the option to be put exulted weapons and the only way to get scaling on them is putting the gladiator set on the deconstructer, this lowers the capabilities of these weapons compared to normal melees. I would strongly suggest consider allowing exulted melees to be able to equip acolyte mods if you let this change go through.

I personally believe that this functionality should be kept the same or even made a proper feature as removing it only causes a lot of these mods to get some use to zero use. 

Prime example:  Saxum Thorax in it's unbuffed state doesn't give enough value to earn it's spot on an actual melee build due to what you would lose over other options. But it is a good selection for the deconstructer "statstick" because it's passive can weaken enemies in an aoe.

 

[Lord_Khaavren]

Disabling the gladiator mods was uncalled for. That was the only reason anyone used deconstructor. Prepare to see that weapon’s use stats take a nose dive.

[BiancaRoughfin]

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

There’s also some ‘invisible gear hopping’ where if you put Mods on your Deconstructor (or Prime), the carry over to your Melee which is a many-year-old oversight we’ve lived with, but are approaching changes more thoroughly with this Update and as a result we’re patching up this behaviour. 

Finally! <3

[Rage_Inducer]

So when are we gonna see the fun changes too?
Adjustable positions for primaries and secondaries just like melee has.
A complete separation of syndicates from sigils (Just how many people have a sigil on them set to pitch black and the alpha set to nothing?)
What about the Theorems and Residuals being unsustainable, unsatisfying and un-effective?
What about shotguns STILL not having any good crit chance mods?
What about making void storms not have atrocious time in mission to relic opening ratios?
What about the defense tiles for Jupiter and the remaster of the corpus ship being too big and having enemies take seven eternities and a half to actually reach the pod making the maps be less of a mission challenging your ability to defend an objective and more of one testing your patience? (WITH speeva on duty)

[OG_Smez]

1 hour ago, .Khaos. said:

Ever heard of principle? People getting mad because DE "fixes" these things out of the blue but doesn't care about other, real and more game-changing, bugs that have been around for just as long if not longer.

Yeah this ^ 

 

Also trying to hide it behind caring for oversights..no no..you're doing this because you didn't think about it when nerfing BR originally..

 

Personally I won't be affectedby this change but the logic of it bothers me.

[Giantconch]

Kind of a cheap shot to drop this little detail one day before the update.

[-Tilter-]

Red crits, what are those? Ahh yes the thing we were once able to do and not anymore.. Might as well throw our melee into the trash can at this point.. It was bad enough you did any nerfs to melee at all instead of buffing guns and their mods, but now you're out for blood, just killing melee altogether.. Why did you even bother with the melee rework, so we never want to use it?

[Andele3025]

Wait what?

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

deal with combos or heavy attacks,

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

• Drifting Contact
• Focus Energy
• Parry
• Saxum Thorax

Drifting is ok since Melee Prowess got changed, Focus is the worst of the 3 electric options, but Parry which doesnt even require block and Saxum Throax which is a plain explosion on kill with 3s cd or no cd explosion on lift kill have NOTHING to do with combos nor heavy attacks (along with the other Deimos physical/status mods being sometimes just raw efficient even if impact procs are being nerfed further and puncture is mostly pointless/both were CO fodder).
But also in general if dogs are going to be equipped with their own melee slot, stuff like Gladiator Vice would still be good just to have for stats. Why not just implement the exalted set block script on the pet weapon slots instead of removing the option to slot in mods that could be usable just on raw stat/ignoring set effect basis?

[Andele3025]

27 minutes ago, TTraw said:

Now, please, make sentinels actually worth using.

If i may fix your quote:
"Now, please, give univac and all pets immortality if they are to remain a half-ability worth of power so that the rest are at least worth the Vulpa/Djinn effect".

[ReaverKane]

LOL
More melee nerfs.
Why no Vigilante Mod incompatibility with the rest of Sentinel weapons? Its exactly the same issue. Or are you realizing that your attempts to fix the divide are going to be useless, and you're just thrashing around nerfing what you can without making it too blatant.

I love how you nerf things that are used a lot by players, but then have no qualms to remove the only reason why players actually diversify builds, and remove that choice. So in 3 months time, you'll be nerfing Vulpaphilas, because being undying is now the only use of pets.

[binge_watcher]

nice now i dont have a excuse to use anything but the smeeta kavat or dog nuke, thanks DE. cant wait for the dog nuke nerf so i really wont have to worry about choosing

 

[THeMooN85]

Awesome, whatever you don't touch lately, you spoiling it ... thanks, bloody thanks.

[Petroklos]

Is the same going to happen with the Vigilante Set? It too is used as a Stat Stick for better Crits on Guns, by equipping it on Sentinel Weapons. I'd be sad to see it go, but also happy to not feel like I have to use Robotics to get the most Damage out of my Guns.

I'm absolutely fine with this oversight finally getting fixed, even though you took way too long to fix it, as you tend to do, and everyone got used to it, but now we've got a bunch of mostly dead Mods on our hands.

I get that you want to fix mistakes of old, but you guys really need to fix less in ways that hurt the Players and more in ways that will bring up otherwise useless Mods and Gear.

Most Set Mods are awful and don't see use.
Most Pets are quite bad and don't see use.
Most Conditional Mods are worse than their non-Conditional counterparts.
Many Arcanes are borderline useless, especially the Deimos Arcana ones.

Again, don't get me wrong, I agree with this and I would love it if you guys were more active with rebalancing Mods and Gear Types, but you also need to be faster both on removing/nerfing blatantly OP and unintended stuff, and with buffing blatantly useless stuff.

To your defense, the Corrupted Critical Mods and the Status Mods have seen significant buffs that brought them up from irrelevant to niche, but I want more of that instead of fixing issues that even people who were asking for Melee Nerfs (like me), didn't really care about. 

[NexNavarus]

Another pointless nerf. The builds that this effects have already taken a hit with the previous melee nerf. 

So I'm allowed to use crossover mods on primaries but not on melee? Makes sense

[ReaverKane]

10 minutes ago, -Tilter- said:

Red crits, what are those? Ahh yes the thing we were once able to do and not anymore.. Might as well throw our melee into the trash can at this point.. It was bad enough you did any nerfs to melee at all instead of buffing guns and their mods, but now you're out for blood, just killing melee altogether.. Why did you even bother with the melee rework, so we never want to use it?

Ah, no, stuff like Dread will still have red crits, too bad its a useless weapon because it doesn't matter against 300 enemies at once, which is what the game throws at us.

[Andele3025]

37 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

No, that was not something you could rely to build using the ability alone prior to Melee 2.9 in October 2019 because scaling the combo counter required thousands of hits instead of 220.

Pretty sure it was 130 (or was it 135) hits that were required to get current Venka prime performance due to changes in how multipliers are calculated, much like how most melee performed better after 45 hits/2.5x in old melee than they do currently at 12x despite DE describing it as averaging performance to 3x combo counter (tho that also has to do with how much melee was/wasnt buffed baseline; especially when comparing to their old vs new dps for appropriate modifiers instead of the semi-arbitrary values chosen thus realize how that squishing made tiny stat differences cause a problem in proportional overbuffing like with Gram Prime ).

[Kushala_Doara]

1 hour ago, TomCruisesSon said:

As someone who uses the Vigilante Mods on sentinels all the time, I suggest applying this change to them too. It's only fair.

tbf deconstructor prime does not function like traditional melee. according to her post deconstructor isnt benifited by attack speed etc hence the mods are removed (ignore the stat stick nerf) but companion guns are effected my multishot and fire rate, maybe get rid of vigalante supplies cous that doesnt make sense.

but apart from that i guess this makes sense

[Kushala_Doara]

52 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

 

The irony here is that you, as a 2020 player, are judging the game based on the state of the game by the time you joined totally oblivious (Willingly or not) to how those very frames operated prior to some changes made prior to the time you joined and how the current way they play seem to be leftover oversights from systematic changes made to other systems rather than the frames themselves. Being disingenuous or ignorant about history while accusing others of not understanding something only makes you look foolish on top of arrogant.

the forum date shows the date they joined the warframe forums. iv played for 3 years and i joined recently. and if he thinks its unhealthy so be it and if you dont like the changes you have all the right to be pissed. i get both of you. dont go too hard on both accusing him and the english.