Update 30.5: Sisters of Parvos & Kuva Liches Feedback Megathread (Read First Post!)

[Proboscis]

I'd love to give feedback on Sisters but as of yet I haven't gotten one to spawn. Hiding them behind Granum Void is obnoxious, especially since I wasn't even present around the time it came out so I had to do catch-up over the past couple of days already. No crowns, so I need to wait two to five minutes for a Treasurer to maybe spawn, I have to do Granum Void Nightmare alone which, in itself, might not be that bad, but then THERE'S ONLY A CHANCE FOR ONE TO SPAWN. And then, there's only a chance for that Sister progenitor to have a weapon I might want first. 

So I rush down a capture target, wait for 4 minutes, kill an obnoxiously beefy Treasurer that takes a couple of seconds on his own to kill, spend another 1-2 minutes in Granum Void, possibly fall into holes and waste time, all for a chance for a Larvling to spawn, and a chance for them to have a weapon I want, and a chance for it to have a half-decent % on its element. For the love of all that's holy, just make Sister progenitors spawn in missions like Kuva ones do. There's no reason they should take 5 times as long to MAYBE spawn one per mission. 

I already don't want to try farming them if they're going to be half as annoying to fight as some of the Liches are. It hasn't even been a day yet.

EDIT: Please god, make Lich/Sister nodes re-playable. I do not want to have to get within fifteen million lightyears of excavation or interception nodes and Earth has an abundance of them. Even Defense for Lich nodes just get really boring. Excavation is a complete snorefest, and interception isn't fun. Even if it means 'less' thralls, I'd rather just run a sabotage, capture, or extermination 2-4 times in the time it'd take to run one of those nodes.

[Stalker_says_hello]

Imma just assume sniper rifle ambassador as a tenent weapon since theirs no other thread for it. And I just wanna say I thought it had more base damage why you keep making status snipers bosses are immune to status and snipers are big damage weapons just convert  1 shot explosions to crit chance to reach close to 100% crit chance and make auto fire which is used more during killing mobs which are affected by status increase status chance during auto fire cause that's when we would use it and need status. Since it has 2 firing mods 1 shot big damage and auto fire mode make the 1 shot crit viable and make auto status viable and now you got a decent sniper rifle if you want the 1 shot to have big boom explosion I don't mind but I want that bullet landing to count as a nice big chunk of damage before explosion rather the explosion just bounce and hit little mobs near a boss so I don't have to worry about crowd control when I'm trying to take out a boss or boss limb/s but having a pure status sniper it will never get touched more than just mastery fooder and iv been wanting a sniper that can be a big explosion and auto rifle in one and I thought this would be my dream weapon but sadly a huge disappointment in performance. Also rediculously hard to get for a weak status only weapon if it was crit viable 1 shot mode weapon and status viable auto fire mode weapon 1 one then I would totally grind for it or throw platinum at it but as of now I wouldn't waste my short amount of life I have on this planet in real life to obtain that weapon in a video game. 

[Stalker_says_hello]

I was hoping from the akimbo pistols that how the homing works is that the initial shot would tell all the other shots where to land from the magazine so that way you can turn around and all your bullets fly to targeted area which would be a useful feature but I have yet to get the weapon due to sister's being way to hard to unlock and not worth it litterally would be worth it for them to just appear in the granum void no requirements just appear in the granum void would make life easier. 

[Stalker_says_hello]

Get rid of the kuva lich showdown requirement if I stab you correctly with the correct requium order die what I would like is if I have been told the 3 requium mods and I don't know the order I can goto space to stab them till I figure out the order which would be a improvement and not a hindrance as the current game is like at the moment. 

[FA22_RaptoR]

literally what in the F*** did i just go through?

Second sister, magnetic.

20 or 30 specters (of course I brought inaros) all trapping me in quicksand OVER AND OVER, i had to use my operator to escape the level.

 

If this is the kind of BS the game has turned into, I'm done TONIGHT and forever. Why are they spawning specters of you ANYWAYS? Let alone DOZENS of them.

Absolute trash.

[Xalev]

After playing some more (and importantly, playing with my friends with sisters of the same level) I do think I'm very satisfied with speed of progression, though I still worry about the mis-match phases, given my propency for avoiding public. 

[QuasarWolf]

yeah that part with the granum void is a bad idea. its the highest dfficulty tier so you are forced to use a specific frame (mesa i fail to see any possibility with any other frame), effectivly eliminating any chances to get a weapon of a specific element. maybe toning it down to use just any coins not just the highest difficulty. the challenge of it should be fighting the sisters not aquiring them.

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

Corpus litch Spawning: Horrible behind Granum void every time, extremely limiting on frame choice.  Also buggy where it will spawn then immediately vanish wasting more time.  While you could ask a friend to be mesa so you can skulk about as a useless frame just to get a different element, thats a huge waste of time for the friend in a mission that is not in any way rewarding.  And you can't do it on public as only one sister spawns and its just a mad dash to get it first rather than having one spawn for every person without an active litch.

Corpus Litch Grinding:

• Still a miserable slog.  Sure, you reduced the "thrall" count, but you also reduced the "thrall" spawn rate, so the net effect is marginal at best. 
• some of the enemies (litch allies/spectres) are obnoxiously armored - worse that the original wolf of saturn six bad.  
• the amount of teleporting the litches do and the distance they do is obscene.
• The amount of bugs makes all of above feel 10x worse.  I spent 4 HOURS killing a litch when the actual mission time should have been less than 1 hour.  The other three hours were all wasted because of host migrations, unkillable litches where they are downed but you cant interact with them due to terrain geometry), game crashes, matchmaking infinite loading, controller becoming unresponsive requiring me to switch mid game to kb/m,.  And after that wasted 3hrs, my litch is still not dead as have done the final mission 3x already (1st attempt crash after 5min, 2nd attempt host migration after 15m - i finished it solo as new host but it didn't count since i killed my litch BEFORE the host migration) and 3rd attempt couldn't finish the litch as no 'X' prompt when it was kneeling even though it was in the middle of the GD hallway. 30 minutes wasted just on that last mission and its still not done.

 

[AriaAzule]

I have killed my sister liche 3 times. Twice with a friend and it glitched twice so we aborted and i somehow got hound bp twice. So i tried to solo it and it worked but i got nothing and the thing is still like i haven't done anything.

 

Edit:I did it public and it fixed.

[PistilWhip]

Fans of Dungeons and Dragons may enjoy this update, because you have to roll a 19-sided die every time you generate a Larvling. Took me 6 rolls to get the first of the three new weapons, about 12 to get the second, and I'm pushing towards 50 for the last.

Please, DE. We need some kind of mechanic to influence the weapon selection. If it hasn't been suggested before, I propose assigning each weapon to one of the Requiem mods (excluding the new Oull). When a Larvling spawns, it selects a weapon based on the first Requiem mod you have slotted in your Parazon. If your first slot is either empty or Oull, then they roll on the entire table.

But there are other ways, such as assigning weapons to planets, or to mission types, or frames. Practically anything would be better than what we have now.

[RX0UnicornGM]

maybe make it so the enemies you get after beating the granum void not despawn because I got held up and ended up losing the ability to fight the sister spawner because I kept getting killed by normal corpus and I got rank 3 in the void but not worth getting a sister if I keep dying or not noticing it spawn 600m away from me and I had a huge field to clear kinda annoying you go to all that effort and just lose the enemy

[PublikDomain]

I like how the Sisters look and sound more than I thought I would and the Murmur farm is a lot better. If this update was just the Sisters, then it'd be a pretty great update.

But I'm something like 4 Tenet Detrons in and I'm finding it to be a bit disappointing. The stats aren't very special, especially compared to the other Tenet weapons or even the Mara Detron which it should be an obvious upgrade to. Compared to the Mara Detron it's got lower Status (though it about evens out with pellet count), shorter range, and a smaller magazine compared to the existing version, which is already long-obsolete. The only thing it's actually better at is base damage, Crit (a whopping 18%/2.0x - Diplos has 36%/2.2x and Spirex has 26%/2.4x) and that it shoots 10 pellets instead of 7. It already feels sluggish and obsolete.

It's also worse than the Kuva Brakk which it directly competes with. The Brakk has a much higher Crit, better Status, bigger magazine, better fire rate, is hitscan with no travel time, and has innate punchthrough. It feels responsive to shoot and the magazine size fits well. Plus it's an IPS weapon which means it can easily get to 5-6 different proc types per shot (I/P/S/Innate Rad/Corr/Heat for example) which is a massive benefit now due to Galvanized Shot. It can peak out at 600-720% extra damage... The Detron has a 0.1 or 0.05s faster reload, a longer falloff, and better base damage... but it's all Radiation so it doesn't benefit nearly as much from the new mods. The Detron can only get the same benefit from Galvanized Shot through a lot of trickery and expensive mod slots. It's also an 0.5 Disposition weapon at the moment which doesn't really help. The alt-fire is all that sets the two apart, but if you have an auto-fire Macro then you've basically got it on the Brakk too.

In spite of all that, I think it might still be fine as long as the Detron's alt-fire is updated. It currently works like this:

Where it's the same copy-paste rapid-fire mechanic used on guns like the Pandero and Kuva Kraken. And it has the same problems: the high recoil, the inability to zoom while aiming, the resulting lack of access to mods like Hydraulic Crosshairs, etc. Plus it's just boring. And with my Impact Detron trying to eke out as many different status types possible, it also causes enemies to flail around on the first hit meaning no matter how well I line it up most of my shots go flying overhead.

Instead it should work more like this:

Where it fires the entire magazine as one single shot, not a burst of 6 individual shots. Just one big BOOM. It'd be the same as what it does now, but as if it had a 0s delay between shots. Then you could aim down sights when firing since it's one shot, could make use of on-aim mods, wouldn't have to deal with the yucky recoil, and probably wouldn't even need any other stat buffs. It'd also benefit a lot from Magazine Size mods, which would be a pretty unique build path. The Kuva Hek's description makes it sound like it works how I'm saying the Detron should work.

ETA: Though now that I have the Kuva Hek I've found that it doesn't function how it sounds, it really consumes 4 ammo to do a 4x shot. If you have a magazine of 6, it only uses 4 ammo and then if you try and shoot again instead of a 2x shot with the remaining magazine it forces a reload. This is the same issue found in a lot of alt-fire weapons and it'd be cool if this could be addressed at a mechanical level. For example, if I have my Quellor and do a charge fire at 49 ammo, it forces a reload. Instead it ought to do a 49/50ths damage shot and then do the reload. Just use whatever is left and scale the damage down if there's not enough for max power.

ETA: Found this thread:

Which is part of what's making the Detron not feel quite right.

[DoomFruit]

4 hours ago, Cradicias said:

If you're talking about in the final showdown in the Railjack mission, they tweaked it to make it not over in a few seconds.

They're ridiculously beefy in general. The final showdown is no less tanky than the one I ran up to and successfully stabbed 3 times in a previous mission. It seems to take a hell of a lot longer to bring mine down now than it did the last time I made one. And no, it's not a case of elemental resistances. I use corrosive damage because liches have ferrite armour, the current one was neutral to corrosive and so was the last.

But even if the railjack lich dies in a few seconds... I'm actually fine with that, It should be a victory lap. I've already done the hard work of getting all the symbols right. I've even successfully used all 3. If I've hunted the enemy down, followed them home and brought in a piece of siege artillery to finish the job, I expect them to melt. I do not expect them to facetank Eidolon-killing levels of firepower and splatter my mech over the floor in a couple of seconds.

[.LeiA._]

Hey devs, you've forced players to play this DEAD Granum Void to get a single Sister, can you give back the Zenith Granum coin if we failed? Time is not enough to kill 25 spectres using frame that we wanted, especially the non-nuke or squishy frames. I'm not a hardcore or pro player that could built any frames armed to teeth and grind the Zenith Granum coin for days.

[TheMiningBroodling]

Why are these Sisters so tanky? I cannot kill the first Sister that I created. She has massive damage reduction, and on top of that, she has renewal. Even with my highest DPS builds, I can barely manage to deal enough damage to break the shields. Which I guess is okay, not ideal, but still acceptable. But there is another catch. She has a 57% toxin Arca Plasmor. Meaning if I come within 50m of her, I will immediately die. As a Solo player, immediately dying is not a very fun experience. 

Apparently I am now going to have to do this awful fight a second time?! If I can somehow manage to kill it, I'm going to have to go through another horrid fight just to finish her off? At least let me do the fight just once.
I was excited for more Lich content, as I enjoyed killing Liches before this update. Hopefully this will get changed, I guess I will just play a different game for the next 6 days until Yareli finishes crafting.

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_]

16 hours ago, [DE]CoreyOnline said:

• Hounds Feedback: As Enemies & Companions
• Sister Tenet Weapons
• Murmur Reduction
• New Requiem Mod Oull
• Parazon Rework
• New Kuva Lich Showdown Flow

-Hounds....  my 1st sister came with a dog that can split into 3 but the 3 dogs are tiny.... they should be 3 normal sized dogs...   Otherwise I havent built a hound yet.

-Murmur Reduction.........   

1.  Murmur filling had a very nice rate.  (But I was put into many many Kuva Lich murmurs that had no dogs to fight...??
2. Lich/Sister aggro in my opinion is a little to low.  (I had murmurs to test and no Sister to test it on)

-Ooll mod.........  Ummm murmurs filled so fast I didnt need to even bother with trying to use the new Ooll mod lol.  HOWEVER...  I did run into the worst scenario when murmur farming.  My last unknown was the 1st mod.  But I couldnt find that out until I had tested the other two mods.  AND THEN when I did know the 1st mod spot, 2nd and 3rd were switched around.   So my Lich got to Lv4 and the Ooll did not/ could not help with any part of that.   

There is a way for Ooll to be EXTREMELY helpful.   When you equip the mod to the parazon it should auto-fill 1 correct mod in the correct SEQUENCE.  

For example I just got a fresh sister and have no murmurs filled.  I equip an Ooll mod to my parazon and it reveals 1 correct mod AND shows me were in the sequence it goes.   Now I only have to farm 2 murmurs and its MUCH easier to figure out the sequence.   It doesnt matter where the Ooll fits into the sequence it will reduce the amount of guesses it takes to fill in the rest.     If you wait till you learn the 2 other murmurs it should only take 2 guesses at sequence max.   That would make sure what happened above with my Lv4 sister never happens again which would be worth its weight in gold.   

-Showdowns...

1.  We just fight Lich in random parts of the ship???  BULLCRAP lol.  There should have been a specific Bridge/Throne room fight.  You did not deliver on 2019 tennocon yet...  
2. Instead of coming up with ANY freaking excuse to prevent mechs from fighting Lichs you guys decide its just better to make Liches way stronger and MAKE people use mechs.   That was an EXTREMELY bad call.   Nobody complained about Lich toughness before because it was balanced nicely.    Now they are very tough and when mixed into new melee nerfs feel horrible to fight against and thats BEFORE the showdown.

Just ban Mech vs Lich and put their values back to where you had it!!  Thats not a way easier solution than screwing up the whole Lich process?????  It feels like you are trying to force veteran payers to carry newbie trash through the lich system.  Where as before it was my choice if I wanted to help someone with their lich or not.   The fast murmurs got me excited for Lichs.   Then the Lich toughness and showdown fights slapped the excitement back out of my mouth.

I've been playing 4 years now and your seriously killing this game off for me.   Arbitration, Steel Path, Tough Liches.  I do not enjoy this hard mode garbage.  

[(PSN)Jacobivan]

I don't know if it's supposed to work that way, but Ember's Inferno instantly killed a candidate with no option to make her a lich. She didn't kneel offering option to stab her, just dead body on the floor. Also after that candidate wouldn't spawn for 2 missions despite completing Granuum Void. 

[(PSN)Boi_Paradox]

I know I'm gonna get hate for this but Requiem mods for Sisters of Parvos. Using the same mods for The sisters doesn't seem right, they don't have the old blood and aren't Kuva lich related. They should have their own kind of Requiem mods which could be called Tenets and each have their own Tenet listed and 8 of them. (I have no problem farming their own mods) This would be really corporeal with The Sisters since some of the dialogue with their candidates tell them to Remember their tenets. They should also have like their own explanation like Deimos has for requiems but this room could be the unused one above Ticker 👀.  That's really all the feedback I have for sisters. Also of course they should have their own relics aswell Because I think the sisters deserve their own category they're really iconic and powerful. Thank you for your amazing work. 

[Circle_of_Psi]

So a few issues:

1. Tone down the number of missions, 5-10 Missions on average (over 12-13) is strongly better and there is no difference at all with 12-13
2. Some Liches (that I came across, after I got mine) where FAR too tanky, this needs be solved. 
3. The HOST must be the one to facilitate the Zenith Void, no one else can, it will not come up if you are not the Host.
4. Your teammates can kill the Larval Sister before you reach it, my buddy killed it (by mistake ofc) and we had to restart the mission, perhaps make the Larval immune to damage after she or he falls
5. The Sister does not seem to spawn 100% of the time (not sure why) there has been some factors where she just refused to outright spawn
6. The Zenith Mission is far too difficult for a basic and new player to get to even R1, perhaps chnageing it to the lowest or mid tier will be much better

 

[_Tormex_]

I have killed 34 liches with the old system and just completed two more since the update dropped. Here is the feedback that I have so far.

1. The change to make the nodes for liches standardized feels terrible, makes playing kuva lich missions with a squad more difficult instead of less, and just gives less variety of play and less options for the player. In the old system, if I wanted to play with my friend, often we would need to alternate nodes for a bit until we had overlapping planets, but once we did we were good and could feel free to choose nodes that we both had and progress through the lich hunting together at the same pace. Now we can't do that because we only have one planet to use, and whenever we fight our lich and try a requiem on it, we don't have the same planets anymore and need to alternate again. It punishes people that want to play with friends or a squad without making the matchmaking better in any meaningful way. And whenever the lich switches planets, it feels like I am being punished for beating my lich in a fight instead of being rewarded. Also, always having the same planet order has a much higher likelihood of becoming stale. Part of why I have killed so many liches is that I liked traveling around the solar system fighting liches wherever they appeared. And now that's gone. I understand if you want to make it so that only sisters are on some planets and liches on others, but please allow us to have multiple planets again.

2. I know that you said that you made it so that the murmurs are gained faster, but in my experience that is less of a hindrance to vanquishing liches than getting them to spawn. And in my play-testing so far, you nerfed the likelihood that liches spawn. In the old system, once a lich was defeated, every thrall killed in the mission after that point provided points towards making your lich angry again. So that meant that you could have your lich still be a bit angry with you after finishing a mission. Removing this feature makes the hunt take significantly longer than it would otherwise take since we get fewer chances to try combinations and get the bump in murmurs from fighting our liches. I would much rather be able to fight my lich more and try combinations than just get the murmurs faster. After more play-testing the new systems, the murmur gain just feels unbalanced compared to the lich anger levels. Sometimes I have the full sequence of mods discovered already on before I fight my lich twice and that is way too soon for me not actively farming murmurs.

3. A lot of people are annoyed with how difficult it is to find specific weapons when creating a lich /sister. Someone else mentioned that having 3 options would be nice, and I think that would be a great idea. Maybe have the choices mapped to certain buttons like the vanquish/convert screen does. And have players press the interact button to bring up that screen. Having a 1/19 chance per weapon is kinda ridiculous. My friend had to speed-run Cassini for over 3 hours to try and get the kuva hek to spawn, and that's a bit much.

4. I liked the kuva lich showdown a lot! Though it would be cool if the liches spawned on the bridge of the ship. And it would be nice if they were a bit less tanky since we had to go through so much to get to them already. I would rather them be less tanky and it be a 4v4 on the bridge of the ship than 4 different 4v1s on random tiles in the grineer ship.

5. Can't comment on Sisters yet, my friend want to get the new kuva weapons first. Please allow us to have both a sister and lich simultaneously so that I can fight liches with my friend when he is available and still be able to try out the sister hunt in the meantime since I play more than he does. Its annoying to have to choose between the new stuff and playing with my friend.

TL,DR: Having liches on only one planet is absolutely terrible and I want DE to change liches to get more planets either in general or as you level them up like before. And I also would like there to be a pool of lich and sister planets that they can spread their influence to randomly so that the planet order is different each time. And we need to be able to have the option of simultaneously progressing through the lich and sister systems since they both require significant up-front commitment to start and time to finish.

[_Tormex_]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Boi_Paradox said:

I know I'm gonna get hate for this but Requiem mods for Sisters of Parvos. Using the same mods for The sisters doesn't seem right, they don't have the old blood and aren't Kuva lich related. They should have their own kind of Requiem mods which could be called Tenets and each have their own Tenet listed and 8 of them. (I have no problem farming their own mods) This would be really corporeal with The Sisters since some of the dialogue with their candidates tell them to Remember their tenets. They should also have like their own explanation like Deimos has for requiems but this room could be the unused one above Ticker 👀.  That's really all the feedback I have for sisters. Also of course they should have their own relics aswell Because I think the sisters deserve their own category they're really iconic and powerful. Thank you for your amazing work. 

Lore over grind I like it

[_Tormex_]

5 hours ago, Tynaiden said:

Now we can't help our friends conquer their lichs?

I solo'd mine yesterday before the update to have room to try for a sister today. Friend got on today so I was going to help him finish his lich off so we can attempt to get Sisters together. However, I can't go to the final confrontation to help him because I don't have a lich of my own.

Not a very nice system change when previously friends could help with the final fight no matter the conditions. He is FORCED to join random groups or play solo because of this. I appreciate the thought of having the final confrontation at your discretion through a dedicated map node. Being locked out friend play where it previously was possible is a massive mood killer after having fun the past hour playing and talking together about what Sister / weapon we would like to get while getting him the whispers to finish off his lich.

Excalibur's friends were able to help him in the cartoon...

[MadMattPrime]

Get rid of the granum void requirements especially when its token is dropped by an enemy which is locked behind a timer. On capture mission it takes a whole 2 minutes until the treasurer who drops the coin spawns.

For someone who has 0 zenith granum coins its going to take a while. You have to wait for the treasurer to spawn, grab the coin and then put it into a statue, doing the granum void objective and hope that the sister spawns with a weapon that you want, if its not then you have to repeat the entire process again. The fastest timing I've gotten was 4minutes 21seconds on a capture mission, mainly waiting for the treasurer to spawn. 

Compare to getting a kuva lich which can literally be spawned in less than a minute, Cassini, capture target, kill enemies and the larvaling spawns and see if its the weapon you want. Fastest timing I've gotten was 45 seconds.

Comparing timings, liches are faster to generate and farm weapons that you want.

Edit: Liches don't require any special resources too!

[Crystal_Imitator]

Not much of a feedback here, but an Idea. 
The Kuva Ephermias are "Vengefull" Ephermias. 
So why can't the Sister's Ephermias be "Investment" Phermias or something? just to keep the treand I personally liked. Would be easier to link aswell than remembering all the different and unique names you guys thought up.

Thanks for reading!

[TheLexiConArtist]

8 minutes ago, MadMattPrime said:

Get rid of the granum void requirements especially when its token is dropped by an enemy which is locked behind a timer. On capture mission it takes a whole 2 minutes until the treasurer who drops the coin spawns.

For someone who has 0 zenith granum coins its going to take a while. You have to wait for the treasurer to spawn, grab the coin and then put it into a statue, doing the granum void objective and hope that the sister spawns with a weapon that you want, if its not then you have to repeat the entire process again. The fastest timing I've gotten was 4minutes 21seconds on a capture mission, mainly waiting for the treasurer to spawn. 

That's a very big 'if' you have none. Until you get a couple coins in the bank.

Then you go for the G-Void first, which eats up the Treasurer timer as well, killing two time-gating birds with one stone. Hop out, get your coin back, check your candidate (if it decides to spawn) and move on with your life.