Update 30.5: Sisters of Parvos & Kuva Liches Feedback Megathread (Read First Post!)

[MadMattPrime]

16 minutes ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

That's a very big 'if' you have none. Until you get a couple coins in the bank.

Then you go for the G-Void first, which eats up the Treasurer timer as well, killing two time-gating birds with one stone. Hop out, get your coin back, check your candidate (if it decides to spawn) and move on with your life.

That doesn't fix the issue, stop being a white knight for DE.

Firstly, the game isn't always about veterans who have stockpiles of granum coins. So your big If is an actual possibly.

Secondly, stop hiding the fact that the requirements for getting a sister is fine, firstly coin is time gated. Secondly you're ignoring the fact that it takes significantly longer to get a sister comparing to a kuva lich.

45seconds versus 4minutes excluding loading times is a huge difference.

In a time for getting a sister and replacing your lost zenith coin. You could do multiple Cassini runs to find your desired weapon for a kuva larvling.

[TheLexiConArtist]

12 minutes ago, MadMattPrime said:

That doesn't fix the issue, stop being a white knight for DE.

Firstly, the game isn't always about veterans who have stockpiles of granum coins. So your big If is an actual possibly.

Secondly, stop hiding the fact that the requirements for getting a sister is fine, firstly coin is time gated. Secondly you're ignoring the fact that it takes significantly longer to get a sister comparing to a kuva lich.

45seconds versus 4minutes excluding loading times is a huge difference.

In a time for getting a sister and replacing your lost zenith coin. You could do multiple Cassini runs to find your desired weapon for a kuva larvling.

Get the twist out of your knickers there, boyo. If I'm a white knight, how am I posting in each feedback thread with criticisms and I-told-you-sos?

If you make a problem worse through your own avoidable actions and frame that as the basis of your argument, you are undermining your own argument. Easier it is to pick and choose 'well that's just user error' rebuttals, the less likely you are to be heard.

 

The requirement for getting a Sister is fine. The requirement for an eventual desire to hunt specific Sister weapons is not fine. And frankly, Liches are not better enough in that regard to quibble over the Treasurer timer.

[MadMattPrime]

12 minutes ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

Get the twist out of your knickers there, boyo. If I'm a white knight, how am I posting in each feedback thread with criticisms and I-told-you-sos?

If you make a problem worse through your own avoidable actions and frame that as the basis of your argument, you are undermining your own argument. Easier it is to pick and choose 'well that's just user error', the less likely you are to be heard.

 

The requirement for getting a Sister is fine. The requirement for an eventual desire to hunt specific Sister weapons is not fine. And frankly, Liches are not better enough in that regard to quibble over the Treasurer timer.

Nope, the requirement of getting a sister is not fine, outside the quest requirements.

Firstly in order to get a sister, you need a Zenith Granum coin which comes from Treasurers which are time gated. Fine a statue and use the coin, kill stuff in there.

Now compare it to the simplicity of getting kuva lich. No special requirements outside quest requirements. Kill a few grineer and hello there possible lich.

What do we do mostly? Kill enemies.

Regardless of whether you looking for a specific weapon or just want any weapon, you cannot deny that kuva liches are easier and way more accessible compared to the hoops that you need to go through for a simple sister.

 

[Soup2504]

so. the tenet flux rifle. listen, I don't mean to be rude....... but what in the world happened here?

i'm honestly baffled by this variant. For context, this is the weapon I was looking forward to the most. despite how not-great it was, the flux rifle has been my favorite weapon for a very very long time (even before the beam rework. when it was way worse). but i'm just completely confused by what the tenet version ended up being

it's not a beam weapon anymore

so we got increased crit chance (nice), 2% higher status chance (...), higher fire rate (ok), and increased accuracy (pretty much meaningless)

but then........ its base damage not including the element bonus is the same as the original flux rifle (so 25-60% higher. which... yeah fine. but I'd hoped it'd get a little bit of a boost to its base damage. not anything too crazy, but a little), its punch through is gone (...), its crit damage is lower (not by much but still ?), the battery recharge mechanic is gone (why??), and most importantly of all...

it's not a beam weapon anymore (WHY????? SERIOUSLY WHAT)

what happened here? i'm so disappointed....

So some suggestions: make it a beam weapon again (this is the bare minimum imo. it's not the flux rifle if it's not a beam weapon), give it its battery ammo mechanic back, give it its punch through back, give it a bigger boost to status chance (so instead of 26% status, i'm thinking 30%. or 40% if you want to be extra cool), and maybe give it a slight boost to its base damage. and once again, make it a beam weapon again...............

the crit damage being 1.8x can stay honestly. I don't mind that as much as everything else.

if nothing changes about it, then I'll just have to keep my fingers crossed that we get a flux rifle vandal soon (and I do mean soon), and it's. you know. not whatever the tenet flux rifle turned out to be....

and even if the tenet gets fixed, you should still release a flux vandal one day :)

EDIT AFTER FORMAING THE WEAPON:

so predictably, with the same build on both guns (split, serr, crit delay, vital sense, viral heat 60/60s, hunt mun) the tenet flux (at 26% heat) is slightly better than the original (shaving ~1-2 seconds off the ttk for heavy units. non-heavy doesn’t matter they all die if you sneeze on them with either version). But the fact that they stripped away everything that made the flux rifle the flux rifle, and gave it just a little tiny bit of a stat boost is SO disappointing.

idec they can keep the same stats and just make it a battery based beam weapon with innate punchthrough again and i’d be happy (though I would like a little buff. not a huge one! but another small push would be nice. Perhaps giving it 30% or 40% status chance 👀?)

please 😭

EDIT AGAIN: changed build, have new thoughts, made new reply:

 

[Harutomata]

No Tenet Lenz? :(

[wavic]

Alright! I had an active Kuva Lich which I just killed and I've got nothing. It disappeared, no weapon, no influence nodes - nada.
I submitted a bug about that in the forum. I submitted a bug request to the support with the attached log file.
And I am hearing now that I have to do yet another mission to end this. Well, I did it and I finally killed that Lich for real. How many times I had to fight it? I didn't count. One more? Not a deal at all.
I don't know if that is an DE attempt to get us to do railjack missions. If it is just that it's awkward because you do just that - go there, kill it, go back.
What if I don't have a railjack? What if I have one but it's not well equipped just yet. And I have to do it solo because of a bad connection and I am unable to keep up with the squad ( I see ping around 300 all the time ) or whatever the reason is? I end with an active Kuva Lich I can't kill.

If, when I clicked on the Kuva Lich icon next to the Nightwave banner I had a brief explanation what is changed and what I have to do and a check box not to see it again at the end I wouldn't post that bug topic in forum and that bug request to the support. And feel like a moron. 

In case DE didn't notice just to tell them why I don't do railjack missions more often if I do them at all. They are slow. All the game is run, kill and finish the job as fast as you can.
Why should I spend the priceless time to do something when I can do it in a minute, two or even five minutes? Just to open a relic? I would do it if there is according to that reward. Another relic, some void traces or whatever it is now is not enough, obviously. We can't do it faster with a single railjack. We don't have an option to do it with two or four railjacks and separate the task and roles. One to go for the option, one or two for all fighters and crewships another or two for the main target... No. We don't have a way to do those missions faster. This is why I keep open relics the old way. Especially Lith and Meso.

Apologize my English!

[DLOArceus]

17 hours ago, .LeiA._ said:

Hello, please rethink the decision to put the SISTER behind the already DEAD Granum Void Fight (after you get all the loots from the drop table). How many ZENTIH GRANUM coins we need to farm to get the weapon that we wanted. You devs remember that the weapon they have is RNG right? Is it because the murmur farming decreased so you guys found the way to make it longer by ADDING Granum fight? 

Please reconsider.

My feedback? Put Parvos spectre running inside the Corpus Ship tileset, we kill it and let the Sister spawn. I rarely online these days because I'm extremely burnt out from the grinding after so many years of playing this game. I thought I could back and diligently farm the new Sister weapon, but no. I'm just really tired and can't keep the love I have for this game anymore.

Farm? Can't you just get it from the Treasurer that appears after you exit the Granum Void?f

31 minutes ago, wavic said:

I don't know if that is an DE attempt to get us to do railjack missions. If it is just that it's awkward because you do just that - go there, kill it, go back.
What if I don't have a railjack? What if I have one but it's not well equipped just yet. And I have to do it solo because of a bad connection and I am unable to keep up with the squad ( I see ping around 300 all the time ) or whatever the reason is? I end with an active Kuva Lich I can't kill.

Liches were presented as a Railjack activity from day 1. Why are you complaining about a Railjack activity requiring a Railjack? "If you have one but it's not well equipped yet"? Well then equip it well then. I don't get this dumb argument. You don't bring a modless frame into a Steel Path mission and complain that it's too hard. Even then you can even be super lazy and just archwing every enemy instead of using your ship.

[(PSN)sieg_valentine]

Is it normal that there is only 1 or 2 hounds can appear in the sister's area? I did a survival mission and only 2 appeared but it filled up half of my first requiem clue. 

[tester616]

Pool of kuva weapons is getting large enough where even the farm to get a lich with a specific weapon you want is tedious, not to mention it probably has to be done many times to reach 60%. Consider throwing the players a bone in some way to lighten this dull, potentially infuriating rng fiesta up a bit.

Scattered justice can't be used on kuva hek. Why? It doesn't have an innate justice effect or anything. I hope this is an oversight and not one more reason to lose another crumb of faith your words may or may not carry. Yes, it gives a lot of multishot. Afraid it will be stacked with other multishot mods? The way your system punishes stacking of the same you'd probably do more damage mixing things up anyway. Sad to see such unique mods locked away even from what they were supposed to make unique. Who knows, maybe one day we will have a warframe augment unusable by the prime variant? Fine whatever, let me just smash my riven in and call it a- oh wait, 0.5 dispo. Nuh-uh, can't let you get drunk on that fun now can we? Godroll or go home. A starting point of, say, 0.75? Pure nightmare fuel comparable with the thought of a crit shotgun.

Second, please allow kuva hek to alt-fire with a clip of less than 4 shots with damage accordingly lowered. Having the gun magically malfunction and reload just because one of the barrels is empty totally breaks game flow and just feels awful in general when the time is right to unload and you are left hanging.

And what's with the enrage & spawn rate of these kuva liches? My first two kuva weapons post update didn't feel much faster at all. Could even have been slightly slower for all I know. First lich spawned only twice before I had all 3 mods revealed. Second spawned barely twice! There I eventually was sitting through an entire slow defence mission waiting for mr. fully enraged to show up, but no. Just to be clear neither lich included a lucky guess revelation, it was through thralls, thralls and more thralls. Don't know about you, but for me personally the only thing that provides something of potential interest during a lich hunt is, you know, fighting the increasingly tough lich. What if you want to convert a level 5 lich? Have fun with that...

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

14 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

You are now required to fight the Lich/Sister a second time after "killing" it with the correct sequence so you can then fight in Railjack in order to properly kill it. It pretty much negates some of the time you're saving by farming a lower amount of murmurs.

DE, why? Why do you have to circle around things instead of making things flat, total, unquestionable improvements?

^this.

I saved maybe 15 minutes from what liches used to be.

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

Sisters need to drop a resource  like when liches drop kuva after any attempt on lich stab, maybe void traces since the sister are void themed/powered?

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

Also we need the beacons that were once talked about to let us forced a certain weapons to appear as i have 5 tenet weapons and for 2 hours all my candidates kept showing up with the same 5 weapons I already have and I'm trying to get my arsenal fill out before nabbing copies. Makenthese beacons cost riven slivers and buyable from paladino since that was the initial concept.

[TheLexiConArtist]

If we're now not allowed to do our full damage to our Adversaries for #reasons, why then are they still allowed to do their full and often egregious damage to us? Or to make it even more on the nose, spawn copies of us which still deal our full damage to ourselves?

Of course, we also have to combat percentile regenerating shields while locked into dealing fractional percents of damage per second to them. You get yeeted by a lich, your foe teleports off for a hot second too long, that's a minute of slow ticking damage wasted - which naturally means you can't make infrequent, heavy shots matter at all, because the regen can cover it.

 

The arms race of who kills whom first is no longer applicable. It's whatever endurance cheese we can muster versus get instagibbed lol cheese.

The 'damage attenuation' fix has made the experience far worse. It's not created a more equal and fair fight, but a strictly unfair fight in the AI's favour. Which is not the best option of the two for gameplay.

 

The best Adversary I fought since the update is the one I accidentally nailed the full Requiem correctly on the first try with none revealed. Because at rank 1 the stupid extra threat mechanics and amputation of our damage output are not yet in play, and since I got it first try, I got to avoid grinding my face against that pebbledashed concrete wall in hopes of getting through.

 

Think for a moment. Not "do we want the fight to last for an extended time" but in some cases even "can the player afford to fight for an extended time"? How do we grind relentlessly against that shield which regenerates if you look away for merely 5 seconds, do so for minutes at a time just because you said so - and still contend with mission objectives? Getting life support in survival? Letting our Rescue targets and Defense objectives not get destroyed by the very Adversary we're artificially gated from dispatching? Hope you saved an Exterminate or a Capture for last to get your rank 4-5 appearances dealt with safely!

[mrgudveseli]

What was the thought process behind locking kuva liches behind railjack? Iirc, not once during The War Within a mention of railjacks can be found. Also, kuva liches offer only their weapon and maybe ephemera, compared to sisters who have a hound included in the package. Doesn't make much sense to place less rewards in the same spot as more rewards.

 

[(XBOX)HollowCube987]

The Tenet Diplos are my new favorite secondaries because I waited so long for a dual secondary that let me reenact the Vauban Prime Trailer Akstiletto scene. The only gripes that I could possibly have/talk about are the base damage, and the ADS Targeting Burst Fire, the latter being a more prominent issue.

When you aim down sights, you are able to put targeting reticles on enemies similar to the Sepulcrum. By pulling the trigger, a quick burst of two homing projectiles are launched at all of the marked targets.

However, considering the steps needed to get a Kingpin/Queenpin weapon, the Tenet Diplos have very underwhelming base damage. Without factoring in the innate elementals you get from spawning a Lich/Sister, you're looking at just 28 base damage, 40% of it rooted in impact. It's not a great thing to have less base damage than a pair of Aklato (especially for a pair of MR16 sidearms), but the high crit chance, above average crit damage, and the manageable status means that it's possible to squeeze more damage out of it.

The ADS Targeting Burst is a more important issue though.

-Only two shots are fired per enemy marked, and each homing projectile fired cost 2 pistol ammo

-Maximum limit of 8 targets can be marked

-You must wait for (what feels like) a second after firing a volley of homing projectiles before you can use the ADS targeting reticles again

-The hipfire projectiles have faster movement speed and innate punchthrough when compared to the homing projectiles

I don't think the Tenet Diplos are horrible, far from it. I just think that they aren't as strong as the other secondary weapons that you could recieve from other, easier means. How would I fix them? I would increase the base damage by 25-50% and remove the limit of how many shots can be fired per marked target.

[--END--Rikutatis]

I love everything about the new Sisters of Parvos and their weapons EXCEPT: the method of acquiring the gun (same complain I had with kuva liches, but even worse now due to the granum void component). It's horrible soul crushing RNG to run the same mission countless times in a row just hoping to get the right gun(s) you want. 

Also I tried to do this in Steel Path so I could at least farm acolytes while I'm at it, but acolytes don't spawn when I do granum void, nor does the sister after I complete the granum void. Must be bugged. 

[Grummelmonster]

I've had two OULL mods show up as rewards in my end of mission screen but didnt actually receive either of them. I do have the one I got from loggin in with one use down, I'm not sure if I missed something and you can only have one or if there is some kind of issue with the actual reward.

[Landar486]

Please Reconsider the Railjack requirements for the Lich hunts. It was a fun experience before the change and now i'm walled off from experiencing or finishing content because i don't have a railjack. Or maybe i'm someone with railjack access but dislike the content and don't have any intrinsics?  This update snuffed out fun for a portion of the playerbase who enjoyed the kuva lich hunt content. 

[Avynire]

lich should be 100% spawn when player has discover all 3 required requiem.

[(XBOX)HollowCube987]

16 minutes ago, Avynire said:

lich should be 100% spawn when player has discover all 3 required requiem.

Yes.

Definitely.

Absolutely.

There is nothing more infuriating than having all the codes in the correct order, but the lich doesn't show up.

[Smurfdaddy]

The new On-Kill stuff has a bunch of issues:

• On-headshot-kill can't be triggered by DoT statuses which were caused by headshots. (edit: electric procs seem to be the exception for some reason, they can trigger them just fine, so whatever u did there @DE copy that pls!)
• Having to first kill enemies to be able to deal proper dmg will result in a multitude of issues. First a player will most likely start focusing on the trash mobs instead of priority targets when facing an encounter which is a bit weird. Second getting up ur kill counter will either be a pain in the butt on high lvl play or be trivial in lower lvls which leads right into the next issue:
• It is limiting the weapon versatility due to the low buff duration. This is the opposite of what this patch wanted to achieve. Since the buffs will decay & cant be refreshed while u r using another weapon, I feel forced to stick with 1 weapon instead of switching things up. The exception to this are the dexterity arcanes.
• Unusable in certain situations. There are plenty of scenarios were players will simply not be able to keep up the kills to maintain these buffs. E.g.: Index, Eidolons or Boss-Fights in general.
• Way too many buff icons. I think it would be worth making these mods all scale on something like a combo counter for melee but make it a kill counter instead. All the mods will scale off that instead of having unique durations & icons all over the place. Things r getting pretty cluttered up in my top right corner already...
• Enforce a already existing meta. Single target guns are being used way less compared to those with some sort of AoE mechanic (exception: eidolon hunts). AoE weapons have a easier time to keep up the kill-stacks since they will kill enemies on accident, clear groups much faster & deal similar single target dmg as the none AoE ones as well. DE tried to fix this with the new headshot-kill buffs but as stated above they don't work very well. Even if they would u r only able to deal with a single enemy better which wasn't a issue for those guns in the first place. Instead they struggle a ton with groups.

Good On-Kill effects?!
A bunch of them are pretty nice actually! They still suffer from some of the issues above but at least not all of them. Good examples are mods like Eternal War & it's copy cats. What makes them different tho? Well you get the buff you want right away without doing any killing at all but u can extend the buff duration by killing. Much better then the new mods & arcanes but this concept seems hardly applicable to them.
Another nice one is Acid/Thermagnetic Shells. These mods reward you for focusing on the very tough units first since the on-kill effect will most likely take care of all the trash mobs on its own. In addition to that the player gets rewarded right away with an effect instead of a temporary buff they have to micromanage all the time. Tbh just make these 2 usable by all none AoE weapons in the game & tweak the numbers a bit.

[Fl_3]

I'll try to keep this short.

Everything I wanted to say about Sisters and the *new* Kuva Liches has been said already.

I thought the idea was to make the game more enjoyable?

You haven't succeeded.

Not so long ago, I took down a Lich in my Lich hunting frame (Mesa) and enjoyed it, the hunt, the requiem farm, the final confrontation knowing that her time had come.

Yesterday I decided that before seeking out a Sister I would grind the new weapons that the Liches have been given, and on my first attempt was rewarded with a Kuva Zarr.

What in the name of God have you done when a 13 Forma (frame and regulators) Umbral (I gave in and stated using Umbral mods on a couple of builds just to squeeze the most out of them) Mesa Prime can only do 22 damage per shot to a Level 3 Kuva Lich?

This frame melts Rank 5 Liches for breakfast.

Or, it used to. Now I do no damage, and even with 95% damage reduction I'm a 2 shot?

For the last couple of fights I cheesed it and meleed it to death from the safety of invisibility using a 2 forma Ivara.

It didn't feel good.

It's nice to know that all the time I put into maxing something out isn't worth the time it's taken me to type this.

Reading the above thread, God help me when I even try to create a Sister using anything other than a DD frame because of the awful decision to place the triggering mechanism behind a timed event like the Granum Void, which as we know from player experience only works well with certain frames.

Thankyou for the update, I look forward to you making it more playable and more fun in the future.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

3 hours ago, Soup2504 said:

it's not a beam weapon anymore 

WHAT????

[(XBOX)Grim Ajax]

-Have only experienced a small amount of content because my lich from before the update can't be vanquished; but so far not impressed.  Wasn't able to experience less thrall grind because I got lucky with my second requiem and the last was revealed at the end of the mission, but It's definitely annoying to have run around angering them again to fight them, to only have to go to ANOTHER mission to defeat them with them now being bullet sponges. 

-I also found that enemies were dealing more damage than they used to?  My Chroma was taking WAY more damage than before the update, seems you were a little overaggressive in nerfing the way DR is applied to warframes.

-also, please remove thralls from the final fight, the HUD clutter was massively annoying, and at that point they serve no function.

the process of the sisters makes me not want to even try.

 

-Please stop dropping such big updates simultaneously on platforms, you can't patch them fast enough.  Think I'm gonna take a break from the game now, not worth playing with such critical bugs.  I'll watch update/workshop section to know if/when to come back.

 

[(XBOX)HollowCube987]

My only issue with the Kingpin and Queenpin system is how bullet spongey the encounters are.

I have a Euphona Prime that is capable of making a Steel Path Bombard touch the back of his ankles with his forehead in only a few well placed shots. But against a level 4 Sister, it did 157 damage. Why do the Sisters and Liches have such high damage reduction ON TOP of their armor?

Someone at DE realized a while ago that to make "Tougher" enemies, you can put DR on them that scales off of your weapon's DPS and call it a day. And ever since, they won't stop doing it. For those of you who play Borderland 3, think of how painful and time consuming it is to kill an Anointed Heavyweight on Mayhem 10. It's not impossible to do, but it's not fun.

Shooting a gun that consistently creates 6 digit numbers at an enemy that turns those values into 3 digit numbers isn't enjoyable; it creates the same feelings that a poison ivy rash on a hot summer day gives you: Tender, Raw, and Inflamed.

And to that one person making enemies harder to kill just by giving them high damage reduction: For the love of the Void,

C E A S E