DE really needs to add a tutorial to kuva siphons

[FlerpDish]

Did a few kuva siphon runs yesterday, and out of the 6 I did, in 4 of those runs the people I was running with didn't know how to damage the kuva siphons/didn't even know what a kuva siphon was. I was in the same situation when I did my first kuva siphon. All the game told you was that "your operator is key" and to "destroy the kuva clouds". For one, the kuva clouds are near invisible in a darker tile set, and in the chaos of fighting it's essentially invisible. Another thing is that kuva siphons are first introduced in their own separate mission, and not during the War Within quest, meaning players would have no prior experience on how to do the kuva siphons. It's almost necessary for a player to go online and watch/read up on how to destroy the kuva siphons because of how poorly the games explains it.

When I first did a kuva siphon run, I thought we were supposed to shoot the kuva siphon itself with your operator, or to dash through it or something like that, like how you were supposed to dash through the Elder Queen in the War Within quest.

Any thoughts? Similar experiences? Or were you able to figure out kuva siphons the first time you ever encountered one?

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

DE should add tutorials overall. But they won't. Also, forewarning, this thread will likely lead to arguments between the pro-tutorial and anti-tutorial camps.

Brace yourself.

[FlerpDish]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)DoctorWho_90250 said:

DE should add tutorials overall. But they won't. Also, forewarning, this thread will likely lead to arguments between the pro-tutorial and anti-tutorial camps.

Brace yourself.

I got my popcorn popping and my 3D glasses ready :D 

[Redfeather75]

I remember my very first one I was shooting the harvester trying to destroy it. I walked away not knowing how my teammates beat it.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

They already have, people just ignore them. 

If there's too much going on in the tileset, CC the enemies so you can pay attention to the prompts and transmissions.

It's ok if you miss a cloud, most can be seen. Try adjusting light or display settings?

[(PSN)robotwars7]

it was a long time ago, but based on how I think, 99.9% of my gut says I shot at the siphon first (sometimes the simplest method is best lol.) I think I failed the first one I ever did but then someone told me to use the operator. it was years ago though, all I know with certainty is that after that, I made sure not to forget how to do Kuva Siphons.

it doesn't help that Lotus acts like she's never seen the Siphons before either: not only is it annoying to hear once you know about the Siphons, but when you're new, you probably listen to Lotus for guidance, and hearing her be unsure leaves new players at a loss. the mission's only clue to what you need to do is the dialogue when you use transference, where the worm queen is visibly repulsed, and you have to figure out from that "she doesn't like the kid, maybe that's the answer?".

as in so many areas of warframe, there should be a tutorial for newer players, but there isn't. 

 

[-Krism-]

Pretty sure Lotus tells you exactly what to do

[FlerpDish]

Just now, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

They already have, people just ignore them. 

If there's too much going on in the tileset, CC the enemies so you can pay attention to the prompts and transmissions.

It's ok if you miss a cloud, most can be seen. Try adjusting light or display settings?

There is a tutorial about kuva siphons in game? Can you tell me where I could find it?

Imagine it's your first time doing a kuva siphon, and you have absolutely 0 idea what you're supposed to do. How would you know what to do in the first place? And lets say there is a tutorial in game. I personally never found it, and I highly doubt most people would have found it too. It's not something as simple as "kill target and press X on them" or "protect this objective".

And no, unless you're specifically looking for the cloud it's quite hard to see. Especially when the room the siphon spawns in is on the smaller side, and the room isn't as bright. Plus, if you had no idea what you were looking for, how would you know you needed to adjust lighting?

[FlerpDish]

1 minute ago, -Krism- said:

Pretty sure Lotus tells you exactly what to do

I mean, she just tells you to go operator and to shoot the clouds. If you've never done one before it's quite confusing.

[Tsoe]

but the in game tutorial is fine , lotus is the tutorial

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

7 minutes ago, FlerpDish said:

There is a tutorial about kuva siphons in game? Can you tell me where I could find it?

Imagine it's your first time doing a kuva siphon, and you have absolutely 0 idea what you're supposed to do. How would you know what to do in the first place? And lets say there is a tutorial in game. I personally never found it, and I highly doubt most people would have found it too. It's not something as simple as "kill target and press X on them" or "protect this objective".

And no, unless you're specifically looking for the cloud it's quite hard to see. Especially when the room the siphon spawns in is on the smaller side, and the room isn't as bright. Plus, if you had no idea what you were looking for, how would you know you needed to adjust lighting?

Imagine it's your first time doing anything...

There's gonna be a learning curve....

This is why children can't drive motorcycles....there's kind of a completely natural process that happens beforehand. 

The same thing happens on video games. 

What happens to that player when it's their first time? They fail and get back up, or they ask for help with many of the game's in-game chat channels that were provided for these exact situations....and because the people own and make the decisions on the game want you to do this as they've admitted it.

[mrEkli]

19 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

They already have, people just ignore them. 

If there's too much going on in the tileset, CC the enemies so you can pay attention to the prompts and transmissions.

It's ok if you miss a cloud, most can be seen. Try adjusting light or display settings?

I didn't know how to play these missions at first. It's true... listen to the transmissions. They tell you.

[(PSN)IndianChiefJeff]

"DE really needs to add a tutorial to _"

That's a motto to live by at this point. A hybrid of transmissions/vocal instructions combined with text & visual aids would make anything easier to understand. If you have to rely on an outside source to teach you simple tasks, then the developers have failed to provide proper instructions.

Show, don't just tell, simple as that.

[-Krism-]

22 minutes ago, FlerpDish said:

I mean, she just tells you to go operator and to shoot the clouds. If you've never done one before it's quite confusing.

Wow, such complicated instructions, shoot red screaming cloud with operator

[FlerpDish]

5 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Imagine it's your first time doing anything...

There's gonna be a learning curve....

This is why children can't drive motorcycles....there's kind of a completely natural process that happens beforehand. 

The same thing happens on video games. 

What happens to that player when it's their first time? They fail and get back up, or they ask for help with many of the game's in-game chat channels that were provided for these exact situations....and because the people own and make the decisions on the game want you to do this as they've admitted it.

So you're saying you have to fail to learn? Instead of telling the player what to do specifically or to have a quest mission that walks the player through this one very specific type of mission? Making a player to fail because of bad instructions is not a fun way to teach a player, nor does it bring anything to the game. Having clear instructions isn't handholding.

And no, this is not similar to children not being able to drive motorcycles, you're overexaggerating this. This is more like telling a person who only knows how to cook eggs to bake a cake with barely any instructions.

[FlerpDish]

3 minutes ago, -Krism- said:

Wow, such complicated instructions, shoot red screaming cloud with operator

Yes. It is confusing.

If I told you to go and interact with a button within 10 seconds without telling you where the button is or what it looks like, would you be able to do it? Highly unlikely.

[cute_moth.npc]

32 minutes ago, -Krism- said:

Pretty sure Lotus tells you exactly what to do

I don't listen because she's a traitorous murder toaster dressed up in a human skin..

But yes, she totally gives you instructions the first time you do a siphon.

[kyori]

Lotus: No time for questions. Destroy that thing!

[Tesseract7777]

1 hour ago, FlerpDish said:

I mean, she just tells you to go operator and to shoot the clouds. If you've never done one before it's quite confusing.

It's way better than it used to be.

She used to literally mislead people and it took them years to fix it. 

Not just confuse, but actively mislead and make it sounded like you needed to use operator powers/weapons to attack the braids, instead of go for the kuva cloud things. 

PUB kuva siphons were a crapshoot because there was a good chance you were the only person in the squad who knew how to actually do the cloud thing, and with host/client issues sometimes it could be really ***** for it to work client side... operator latency issues and all that. UGH. 

[trst]

Sure Siphons could use a transmission of Lotus specifying to target the clouds to stop it. But that singular detail isn't something that warrants an entire tutorial.

 

Edit: After running them again and sitting around waiting for transmissions the problem is quite clear. The Lotus transmissions telling you to use your Operator to destroy the clouds triggers after destroying the first cloud with your Operator.

It shouldn't be a huge leap to figure out on one's own and you do have Kuva Guardians to fight during it (which you were forced to learn to fight for War Within) so destroying one on accident and getting the transmission is likely. But again this just needs the transmissions cleaned up and not a full on tutorial.

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

Lotus tells you what to do, also we have many(8?) attempts before failure should be enough for everyone to understand

[Tiltskillet]

If the clouds were just more visible, I think most of the issue would go away.  I still have trouble spotting them sometimes, and that's even though I know what to look for and what direction to look in.

Fix that, and I'd bet most people don't need a formal tutorial.

[FlerpDish]

37 minutes ago, trst said:

Sure Siphons could use a transmission of Lotus specifying to target the clouds to stop it. But that singular detail isn't something that warrants an entire tutorial.

 

Edit: After running them again and sitting around waiting for transmissions the problem is quite clear. The Lotus transmissions telling you to use your Operator to destroy the clouds triggers after destroying the first cloud with your Operator.

It shouldn't be a huge leap to figure out on one's own and you do have Kuva Guardians to fight during it (which you were forced to learn to fight for War Within) so destroying one on accident and getting the transmission is likely. But again this just needs the transmissions cleaned up and not a full on tutorial.

I feel it's kinda like the survival segment of isolation vault missions. It doesn't tell you what you're supposed to do to decrease the toxin level until you kill and pick up the drops from one of the marked enemies. Problem here is that the enemies are marked in red, and you know you're prob supposed to kill the thing that's marked in red. Kuva siphons don't mark anything, so new players are just left wondering what they're really supposed to do.

[vanaukas]

59 minutes ago, trst said:

Sure Siphons could use a transmission of Lotus specifying to target the clouds to stop it. But that singular detail isn't something that warrants an entire tutorial.

 

Edit: After running them again and sitting around waiting for transmissions the problem is quite clear. The Lotus transmissions telling you to use your Operator to destroy the clouds triggers after destroying the first cloud with your Operator.

It shouldn't be a huge leap to figure out on one's own and you do have Kuva Guardians to fight during it (which you were forced to learn to fight for War Within) so destroying one on accident and getting the transmission is likely. But again this just needs the transmissions cleaned up and not a full on tutorial.

I think this is the whole problem. It would also help if they add some new sections or a new quest to explain all kuva related stuff in the same fashion that Call of Tempestarii quest, which consist on multiple bite sized missions that dilutes the tutorials with more direction for players that needs it. I hope they don't shove a song in the middle of that hypothetical mission tho.

[Mr.NoodleHair]

A tutorial would be nice. But having a marker over the kuva cloud could just as well. Or at the very least make the clouds more visible since they are currently a pain to see. And players new to the game mode won’t know what to look for. This’ll help.