How would you (if you were a designer) handle AOE weapons?

[quxier]

50 minutes ago, RLanzinger said:

The problem dear quxier, it's already hapenning : My last missions with some Kuva bramma players made me see more GIANT PINK CLOUDs* that bob marley ever seen ... Obstruction of vision is already the problem !!! and this IS them main reason why I post !!!

(*) I like the pink color but not the cloud obstructing my view

I played Void storms (no more of this bs). But why you want AOE weapons to obscure vision/sound?

 

[cute_moth.npc]

I would create a few more enemies for each faction that worked along the lines of Nox to have high damage reduction unless certain spots were targeted and which were moderately dangerous so you wouldn't want to just ignore them either. Not really spam the field with them, but definitely have them present and spawning pretty regularly so that they were more of a consideration.

I'd continue to introduce more Direct Damage / No AoE mods over time as the selection grows. Some of the things in my mind that would be neat would be something like 60/60/30 (reload) mods that are No AoE - one of the reasons for this is that part of the imbalance between single target and AoE is that a lot of single target guns have the damage to deal with a horde but can't actually process them fast enough especially with some of the ridiculous reloads on things like machine guns. AoE weapons can have their drawbacks (ammo scarcity, knockback) completely nullified *without* reducing the gun's effectiveness but you can't fix the poor reload on something like Twin Grakatas without nerfing your damage somehow. I'd start by adding a few of them initially and see how the reception went? Even add in some weird ones like mods for single target guns that carry the full effect of a current mod like Lethal Torrent but maybe do something like give a moderate Warframe power boost that stacks on headshots, or instantly triggers Focus gaining mode if you score 3 headshots in X time or even gives a bit of extra (with regular Focus cooldown) - I'd be really tempted to use that sort of thing personally! Not stuff designed to directly boost the gun's power, but give the players a reason to want to bring them to compliment whatever build they have?

Introducing a few new arena type game modes with lower numbers of stronger enemies that you can get rewards from is both a fun idea for actually having more game modes and also having a reason to pick something that works well for single target.

Instead of trying to break AoE weapons as they currently stand and focusing on the power they have, I'd be working to add to what single target weapons can offer in the game. And I'd probably like to nudge it one bit at a time instead of trying to rewrite the board, but those are just some ideas!

[0_The_F00l]

6 hours ago, KitMeHarder said:

Except that is for other games. Games where you can't jump 2 stories into the air, or go intangible on demand. Warframe has no need for (or the ability to support) mechanics of PvP and linear story games.

That's an empty argument , there are games where you can jump 2 stories and go invisible , that still have a well balanced ammo economy , where weapons that kill a group of enemies and do high damage have rare ammo.

6 hours ago, KitMeHarder said:

I feel most players don't know how damaging an unexpected bright white light is for your eyes in real life, especially in a dark room. (I know you brought up a blackout latter.)

I already said this ,

I don't play eidolons cause I hate the migraines I get ( because of the flashing lights) , 

Some enemies do have a flash bang effect where the screen goes white.

The sisters hounds also have another hidden power which can trigger epilepsy as true damage to the person behind the keyboard.

Void storms create very intense short lived flashes.  

Depending on the weapons energy many of the aoe weapons already create bright flashes and depending on the frame and loadout it can be even worse.

So until those exists I will not believe anyone claiming a "not good for the player " argument, clearly DE would rather have pretty particles that blind you than be concerned for the few players that can be negatively impacted.

But I am not blind to the issues (haha ) that can come of it , so I am also perfectly ok with a blackout effect instead of a white flash. The point is to restrict visibility if it detonates at close range needing players to take a small "time out" to re orient themselves.

6 hours ago, KitMeHarder said:

Neither fit a game where you can (and are at times expected to) kill 100+ enemies a minute.

I fail to see why you think so or how this vague and generic statement is related to having specialised units or an existing game mechanic. You will need to elaborate.

Punchthrough as a concept already exists , but is currently not applied to explosives which have infinite punchthrough in their explosion range. 

Even melee weapons have a concept of follow-through which reduces the damage done to consecutive enemies in same swing.

There are also specialised units already like nullifiers , arctic eximus and shield lancers that can mitigate the effects of some weapons and abilities. 

So please elaborate on what you think is not fitting the game.

[Keiyadan]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb Megalomaniakaal:

Sure I'll just return to the meta of nuking everything with a frame then. The issue isn't the weapons but the nature of the game, it's a horde shooter so one way or anther we will be favoring AOE anyways. Making AOE(of any kind) less effective against eximus and other special units while leaving the grunts still act as cannon fodder is the most obvious solution here.

i know there will always be a meta it changed so often over the years and it will most likely change as long as warframe runs
but as a AOE player i saw in the last few updates improvements to the playing of AOE weapons Range increase , dmg increase (arcanes) and multishot increase
so i have to ask where those needed?
and i came to the conclusion that they where not needed but DE trown them in there and all i am saying is maybe that things should be reconsiderd like may things have
i mean there had to be an idea behind them so if DEs goal was this situation then the entire disscussion is pointless because it is what DE want us to play
if the goal was balance they seem to have failed but there will never be balance in the first place untill everything is the exact same thing what would very boring
some bosses have even had changes that they are not as mutch effected by AOEs and we have units like that in the game but they not realy nice to fight with non aoe weapons either

i mean for my part it can stay the way it is right now as i would care i mean i only try to think about the problem
i had that awful idea like how about We change how weapons work based on the mission match making like open they get kinda restricted so that you can use them but psf would not work there and in solo or private play they work but thats all a very bad idea i think

[MakotoSmile]

Nerf them just so their dps is in pair with everything else. 

[(NSW)Greybones]

25 minutes ago, MakotoSmile said:

Nerf them just so their dps is in pair with everything else. 

This sounds like it’s a simple matter to gauge what said DPS is. How does one figure out the baseline that is par for the fight? Personally I’ve got a rough sense just from experimenting, but if it can be simplified, that would be of interest to me as I decide what to bring to a mission

[Lutesque]

5 hours ago, KitMeHarder said:

That's not the problem, it's how you get the reward/loot.

I think you've forgotten what the point of this topic was 🤔...

5 hours ago, KitMeHarder said:

It's a game

Did I say it wasn't a game ? 🤔

5 hours ago, KitMeHarder said:

It literally has War in the title

You do realise even in actual war there a plenty of Roles that are murder free ? 

Infact any Military Service would Discharge any officer that had your Current Mindset torwards Violence.... 😱.

5 hours ago, KitMeHarder said:

You literally can not do the full content without it. How do you play ESO, survival, granum void, exterminate, etc..

How do you think I play it ? 🤔

5 hours ago, KitMeHarder said:

No offense, but get over yourself.

Done... What do I do next ? 😁

[KitMeHarder]

59 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

I think you've forgotten what the point of this topic was

I've never felt the need to restrict myself to the main topic of a thread, be it mine or someone else's. If someone questions something I said, I'm going to answer it (so long as it still pertains to the game). And look, even now I'm still being off-topic.

1 hour ago, Lutesque said:

How do you think I play it ?

Why even "tolerate" the killing then? I honestly cannot conceptualize why someone would play this game if they didn't enjoy video game violence to at least some facet.

[DrivaMain]

4 hours ago, RLanzinger said:

Space Ninja ???

Being a Ninja is being stealthy and always taking out key targets. We're not space ninjas, we are space extremely powerful beings who commits genocide on a regular. 

AoE will never stop being the "go to choice" as long as Warframe remains a horde shooter. You either remove the horde aspect or we are stuck in this cycle of AoE nerfing.

[LillyRaccune]

14 hours ago, (XBOX)Tucker D Dawg said:

Other?

I'd go with Other.

1) Change ammo types to be similar to D2 (Bullets, Special, AoE/big boom). Archguns would draw from the same ammo boxes as AoE/big boom guns, it would also become a lot more rare.

or

2) Change weapon categories to be similar to D2. Right now the average player has access to four weapon categories: Primary, Secondary, Melee, and Amp. And experienced players have access to "Heavy Weapons". All five of these weapon slots has the potential to hold big boom weapons.

My idea would move AoE/big boom weapons into the Heavy Weapon category. All players can access the Heavy Weapons category, but only those that completed Profit Taker Stage 4 can put an archgun in that slot. This would prevent Primary and Secondary slots from having AoE guns. 

Spoiler

Also Zenistar would live in the Heavy Weapon slot AND must be restored to its former glory/go back to its pre-nerf state.

 

Comments: I do like little explosions like Zhuge Prime, maybe if the explosions were a little smaller I would like more guns like it.

[Lutesque]

43 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

Why even "tolerate" the killing then? I honestly cannot conceptualize why someone would play this game if they didn't enjoy video game violence to at least some facet.

Then why not look into that.... ? 😉

 

[KitMeHarder]

4 hours ago, Loza03 said:

DE already acknowledges that Bows need different modding than rifles by virtue of the fact that Bows get more benefit from fire rate mods.

That's only because their rate of fire is disproportionately affected by reload speed, since you have to nock an arrow before you can draw it. The buff is just to make it less severe more-than-likely. But the point still stands that DE as developers, don't have the capacity to keep new mod pools in a healthy spot.

4 hours ago, Loza03 said:

The principle of the matter is 'AoE guns should have a poor ammo economy to make up for the fact they hit harder than single-target ones'. However, it's less confusing and allows further precision tweaks through if the category as a whole gets given their own mods instead of bloating ammo mutation descriptions with exceptions and slight differences.

So adding an entire new mod pool is less bloat than a single sentence to 2-3 ammo mutations? And you may have just worded it wrong, but AoE weapons hit more, not harder. For as strong as they are, they don't beat the Redeemer, Chakkhurr, Scythes, etc...

4 hours ago, Loza03 said:

It's a criticism levelled at DE, not at my proposal.

But it's something you're suggesting DE should do, no? I understand this thread is phrased as if you were the dev, but realistically, if this happens it would be via DE. So that's the point-of-view I took.

But I may be alone in this thought process, so I understand now if you want to drop it.

4 hours ago, Loza03 said:

It's not in a diverse way though, it's in a very particular way. Now, I say this liking Eidolons, mind you, but they are designed in a way that does not engage with the majority of the game's established systems.

I understand, but they don't cease to engage all the systems, like an MD timer does. Where else are you going to use an amp to DPS? DE's semi-strong hand increases the diversity in what you use to 'nuke' the game. Matching with the points I brought up.

I understand we can't just Ogris away our Eidolon problems like the rest of the game, but DE still gives us the tools to easily one shot the shield, limbs, and entire Eidolon.

4 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Again, Necramechs don't use 90% of the game's pre-established weapons, nor do they use the movement systems and the melee/gunplay hybridisation that Warframe has frequently advertised.

Railjack has a lot of enemies, but using the Railjack and a Warframe clearly isn't the same thing?

This thread is about how people feel AoE negatively affects the game, right? I'm just saying the above is true, but AoE (no matter the form) is still prevalent. So DE is not using these modes to "circumnavigate" the point of contention (like you said). Voidrig may not be able to use an Ogris, but he still has the Arquebex and the Grattler. 

You used Railjack as seemingly a way to say "DE has implemented this to stray away from stuff like Ogris spam". But I'm just saying there's still space "Ogris" spam there too.

4 hours ago, Loza03 said:

That being that many of Warframe's newer modes - ESPECIALLY those deemed as being for 'advanced players' strip away a large chunk of the player's existing arsenal and the 'core' gameplay. In turn, this typically winds up preventing the player from using the absurdly overpowered combinations that go against the design wisdoms that I'm a proponent of.

I tried to explain it, but I guess it got lost in translation. I'll ask then, what mode do you think does or did achieve this then? Because I don't see your point of view, like I'll show below.

4 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Consider how originally Railjack used a far more restrictive energy system and imposed that players need to respect the overheats of their weapons

Yet turrets where almost never used in the past for that to matter, and people cleared all the fighters in less than a minute with Tether and/or Munitions Vortex despite all this.

And with the changes you brought up. Railjack may have started as a vet mode, but DE has since back peddled hard in every facet of the mode. And it makes sense, as you want the next evolution of your game to, you know, be playable by all those new aspiring players. DE forgot to make the barrier to entry a bearable one, like they did with PoE.

(P.S. The energy change may not be the best, but making systems anti-troll and anti-toxic host is much better than the set up to fail system DE used to have.)

5 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Or how Necramechs originally had very limited energy to fuel their incredibly powerful abilities, and then Orphix Venom gave them a means to recover energy quickly and easily.

Not really, you were just restricted to Protea/Dispensary. And I come to this game for the customization that lets me overcome my build's flaws, among other things. If you're someone that likes to be limited, that's fine, just don't use the stuff. But know there's nothing I can do to gain that power/customization back, if players like you ask for DE to take it away.

[Tiltskillet]

4 minutes ago, LillyRaccune said:

Comments: I do like little explosions like Zhuge Prime

Yeah, I don't find most of the small AoE weapons especially problematic.   I'll find myself thinking when I'm using them that I'm making an interesting trade-off, and in certain situations that something with precision and/or punch through would be more convenient.   And similarly, weapons like Castanas or the Javlok--they've got gobs of AoE potential, but it takes  work to set up compared to something like the Bramma.

[LillyRaccune]

5 hours ago, quxier said:

But why you want AOE weapons to obscure vision/sound?

RLanz doesn't want weapons to obscure vision and sound. Neither do I.

 

I wish Nightwatch Napalm would change to the energy colour instead of being bright yellow and 100% opaque 😿

[Merrcenary]

And this here is why we can't have nice things.

this game and its community will remain garbage as long as there are groups of casuals who want to nerf something that brings fun to other players

and all this due to the fact that these casuals do not like that they can't kill mobs fast enough and someone does it for them. I hope the OP has already prepared a draft for a topic "it's time to nerf amber"

[KitMeHarder]

4 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

That's an empty argument , there are games where you can jump 2 stories and go invisible , that still have a well balanced ammo economy , where weapons that kill a group of enemies and do high damage have rare ammo

In a scaling game? I doubt it. You didn't drop names, but I'm guessing those games don't allow you to jump 2 stories without stamina, a cooldown, prior build investment, etc... And not only is intangibility different from invisibility, but so is the ability to do it so freely and potentially infinitely. Warframe, as a foundation, is a completely different beast from almost every game out there. And that's well before you even get to a point where AoE weapons effectively have infinite ammo.

4 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

I fail to see why you think so or how this vague and generic statement is related to having specialised units or an existing game mechanic. You will need to elaborate.

ESO, Granum Void, Steel Path endurance, etc... just to name a few.

4 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

There are also specialised units already like nullifiers , arctic eximus and shield lancers that can mitigate the effects of some weapons and abilities.

Mitigate is fine. Reflecting self damage however, will never work in a scaling game. Warframes are designed to kill enemies... the opposite is also true. So then the reason enemy converts do such pitiful damage to each other, also means the opposite is true for warframes as well. Ever been in a rad sortie? Doesn't matter how care everyone is, sh*t still happens.

4 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Punchthrough as a concept already exists , but is currently not applied to explosives which have infinite punchthrough in their explosion range. 

Even melee weapons have a concept of follow-through which reduces the damage done to consecutive enemies in same swing.

Then AoE has falloff.

Buggy as hell LoS checks have no place in this game, for the buggy fact alone. Not to mention how the game is designed at it's foundation. To put it into perspective, I feel a game balanced by you would barely make rotation C ESO possible, if that.

[0_The_F00l]

49 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

In a scaling game? I doubt it. You didn't drop names, but I'm guessing those games don't allow you to jump 2 stories without stamina, a cooldown, prior build investment, etc... And not only is intangibility different from invisibility, but so is the ability to do it so freely and potentially infinitely. Warframe, as a foundation, is a completely different beast from almost every game out there. And that's well before you even get to a point where AoE weapons effectively have infinite ammo.

What exactly is a scaling game? or do you mean a live action game? or do you mean one in which enemies (and you) keep getting stronger over time ? or one which keeps throwing enemies at you no matter how many you cu down? you will need to be more specific before we can proceed on this.

Warframe is a Frankenstein/chimera game that "borrows" from most popular genres and keeps jumping on the popularity bandwagon, it has its own share of hits and misses in that regard, the one major differentiator is its parkour system which is non existent in any other game , either by design choice or by technical limitations in the game. Any game mode introduced that takes away from this is usually disliked.

The topic of discussion (at least in this statement) was AOE balance using ammo economy and not the games parkour system. So no need to go on a tangent , i am well aware how much fun the movement system is.

49 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

ESO, Granum Void, Steel Path endurance, etc... just to name a few.

Does not help in any way to explain why you think having a lot of enemies gets in the way of having specialized units or having punchthrough mechanics for explosives.Did you misquote me perhaps? in all of these game modes there already exist specialized enemies with very specific quirks,

49 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

Mitigate is fine. Reflecting self damage however, will never work in a scaling game. Warframes are designed to kill enemies... the opposite is also true. So then the reason enemy converts do such pitiful damage to each other, also means the opposite is true for warframes as well. Ever been in a rad sortie? Doesn't matter how care everyone is, sh*t still happens.

I really dont get your scaling game concept yet, and i dont know why you think it will not work. Especially since you acknowledged that radiation sorties do something similar. so it already does work. What you fail to understand is that it works against you , not in your favor.

49 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

Then AoE has falloff.

Which passes though walls as well as enemies and is subject to individual weapons radius. Group a bunch of enemies using the multiple options available and you can do identical damage to all of them. and quite honestly i have yet to see enemies spread out tactically , most will happily stick together in the blast radius or file into a corridor to be easily caught in a single explosion.

The falloff is also not ... fair? across weapons , some get good falloff in a much larger radius , others get pitiful falloff in a small radius.

49 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

Buggy as hell LoS checks have no place in this game, for the buggy fact alone. Not to mention how the game is designed at it's foundation.

Bugs are more of a coding error (things not working as intended by dev/player) than a concept error (things working as intended by Dev but unpleasantly for player or vice versa) ,

49 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

I feel a game balanced like this would barely make rotation C ESO possible, if that.

oh so you just want rewards for minimum effort? why didnt you just say so.

would you like a button to insta win the game while you are at it 😄

[KitMeHarder]

6 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

you will need to be more specific before we can proceed on this.

Effectively one where enemy health/ehp is exponentially higher than player's, compared to the start of the game.

8 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

So no need to go on a tangent , i am well aware how much fun the movement system is.

But you use other game's balance decisions to validate your points. I'm pointing out how different Warframe is even on the simplest level to show you they're not comparable, and thus traditional balance is not applicable.

12 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Does not help in any way to explain why you think having a lot of enemies gets in the way of having specialized units or having punchthrough mechanics for explosives.

Because the game is not designed to have those limitations in place. Hitting less enemies in mode about killing a significant amount of enemies = bad

15 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

I really dont get your scaling game concept yet, and i dont know why you think it will not work.

Self damage bad. Not balanced. You preach balance for AoE, but this is even more broken. Thus why it was removed and so many people validly complained about it.

22 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Which passes though walls as well as enemies and is subject to individual weapons radius.

Which is still a balancing mechanic, like follow through or punch through, whether you like it or not. Not to mention numerous weapons have infinite follow or punch through.

25 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

The falloff is also not ... fair? across weapons , some get good falloff in a much larger radius , others get pitiful falloff in a small radius.

And the Trumna has a higher base damage than the Gammacor, what of it? Strawman quotes like these don't mean anything. I too can look at a weapon card, disregard the balancing decisions made for said weapon, and then relay the stats to someone else. "The Ankyros has better follow through than the Amphis, it's not fair."

32 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Bugs are more of a coding error

Yet part of the game. And until fixed, has no place even beginning to be a part of the discussion.

33 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

oh so you just want rewards for minimum effort? why didnt you just say so.

would you like a button to insta win the game while you are at it

Your hyperbolic strawman quotes are unneeded. The game as it is a current needs to be completable by the majority of the player base. You really read that and thought I wanted minimum effort, you marshmallow?

[MouadSaqui]

I'll make all AoE weapon only usable in Solo mode

[0_The_F00l]

32 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

Effectively one where enemy health/ehp is exponentially higher than player's, compared to the start of the game.

Ah gotcha. so what level we talking about? 50? 100? 150? 5000?

32 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

But you use other game's balance decisions to validate your points. I'm pointing out how different Warframe is even on the simplest level to show you they're not comparable, and thus traditional balance is not applicable.

Actually you are the one trying to compare, i just don't agree with your comparison reference as there are many things warframe has taken from other games in parts and pieces.

32 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

Because the game is not designed to have those limitations in place. Hitting less enemies in mode about killing a significant amount of enemies = bad

Rubbish, If this were true there would be no single target weapons in the game.

32 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

Self damage bad. Not balanced. You preach balance for AoE, but this is even more broken. Thus why it was removed and so many people validly complained about it.

You seem to be confusing your opinions for facts , also not sure why you are talking of self damage , i am proposing a return to sender (by specialised enemies) approach, which is different from a self damage approach , that's why i asked if you are misquoting me. Also the change that DE did was before there was a shield gate concept.

32 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

Which is still a balancing mechanic, like follow through or punch through, whether you like it or not. Not to mention numerous weapons have infinite follow or punch through.

Yes, but it is not sufficient in my opinion , so i am suggesting more.

32 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

And the Trumna has a higher base damage than the Gammacor, what of it? Strawman quotes like these don't mean anything. I too can look at a weapon card, disregard the balancing decisions made for said weapon, and then relay the stats to someone else. "The Ankyros has better follow through than the Amphis, it's not fair."

Comparing melee weapon classes which have forced procs , bonus multipliers, stealth multipliers, stances and varying melee ranges is not helping your argument. As it proves the point exactly AOE weapons perform much better than their non aoe counterparts.

32 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

Yet part of the game. And until fixed, has no place even beginning to be a part of the discussion.

I really dont get you , LOS issues are a bug , would you rather keep the bug or have it fixed? and again , you are the one that brought it up.

32 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

Your hyperbolic strawman quotes are unneeded. The game as it is a current needs to be completable by the majority of the player base. You really read that and thought I wanted minimum effort, you marshmallow?

Are you not the one that said that getting to rot C would be difficult? are you not implying that you would need more effort to reach the same level if changes happened? does that not mean you would prefer to not put any more effort in the game ?

But first answer me this , How do you complete the game?

and once you do.

Are you saying the game cannot be completed without depending on AoE weapons?

[(PSN)max141064]

i'd book a therapy session for the players that don't want people to enjoy the weapons they like. 

[lowgrav]

how about just for a joke instead of self knockdown or self damage if you are too close to the blast it does a self disarm as the blast knocks the AOE weapon and throws it back out of your hand a few metres ranging from tiny blasts dropping the gun at your feet or launching it in the opposite direction from the blast distance weapon thrown scales with radial damage range and distance from blast epicenter (only works wit AOE weapons and max distance weapon thrown is 20m and if gun falls of a cliff teliports back to the edge) so if you want to use a brama at close range be ready to chase it all over the place and then people will spend more time collecting their dropped guns and less time spam firing them

that could then result in a new mod .....primed sticky finger 100% chance to resist disarm

[0_The_F00l]

17 minutes ago, lowgrav said:

how about just for a joke instead of self knockdown or self damage if you are too close to the blast it does a self disarm as the blast knocks the AOE weapon and throws it back out of your hand a few metres ranging from tiny blasts dropping the gun at your feet or launching it in the opposite direction from the blast distance weapon thrown scales with radial damage range and distance from blast epicenter (only works wit AOE weapons and max distance weapon thrown is 20m and if gun falls of a cliff teliports back to the edge) so if you want to use a brama at close range be ready to chase it all over the place and then people will spend more time collecting their dropped guns and less time spam firing them

that could then result in a new mod .....primed sticky finger 100% chance to resist disarm

This is actually brilliant out of the box thinking.

We already have mechanics to disarm players , so its not a new concept.

[Scar.brother.help.me]

SOLUTION:

- keep it as it is now and let AOE clear missions and game modes we already have (add more, lots of people enjoy it)

- create new game modes for aiming (where you don't have crowds of enemies and make single target/aiming beneficial)

When you don't have crowds - you don't win anything by using AOE. If we get missions, where you have 1-2 tanky enemies per room or small groups of well-tuned enemies, preferably with weak spots to aim for - there we are gonna grab shotguns, rifles, snipers, bows, pistols, etc. (just try not to make it annoying like Thumpers hiding their last leg behind or some time-gated weak spot openings like Sargas Ruk).

[Numerikuu]

17 hours ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

Make some enemies take reduced damage from AoE, bombard, Heavy gunner, corpus tech, Comba, just the special units cause fodder should die quickly to AoE just like in other games.

Best idea in this thread imo. Doesn't take away from their usefulness and forces the player to switch weapons. As they stand right now we're quite literally back to the Tonkor era, except it's far worse.