Hespar - new 2-handed scythe -> pre relase opinions

[quxier]

https://www.warframe.com/news/devstream-161-overview

https://clips.twitch.tv/JollyTenderBurritoArgieB8-fpoNQt5MR_PWGe5T

How do you feel about it?

Weapon looks ok. I guess colors & such may change my opinion.

However I wonder why they are making this weapon gameplay wise. It doesn't bring anything new. With Ghoulsaw you can ride. With Arum spinosa & co you can shoot. This is just attack, attack while moving, some slower attack and block+forward combo... I'm not sure about it.

What do you think about current version from above movie?

[Uan91]

I'm not unhappy about it but I expected a combo that made you lift from air and make a ranged damage.

[Silligoose]

I think it looks good, in terms of appearance and movement. They've managed to add a sense of weight and power to the weapon via animation, while still having a touch of finesse and flair.

In terms of gameplay, it is something new and different for players to use and will feel slightly different. That being said, I personally feel some of the player - melee weapon "connection" was lost back when DE decided to simplify stance combo's and take away timing windows, leading to each weapon class and associated stance's identity and feel, being lost as well to a degree. Had that still been in the game, the new weapon classes and stances would likely feel more impactful and unique than they do now.

As it stands now, I see it and think:" Looks pretty cool. I wonder how it will do in missions". Prior to the change i used to think: "Looks pretty cool, I wonder how it will do and I'm curious as to how it will feel to wield it". Not all feeling of weapon wielding has been lost, but the feeling has diminished to a degree at which I don't really find myself being curious about it as I used to be.

Edit: To be more clear, the "feel" that has been lost is fairly significant, as melee has devolved to button mashing.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

32 minutes ago, quxier said:

How do you feel about it?

it looks OK. personally I'd have preferred DE to go back and rescale all of the existing Scythes up, but that would be a lot of work I suppose. I kinda hope that maybe they could make the Kazsas usable with this stance too, especially since that could start us being able to wield Arch-melees in regular missions: you gotta admit, it'd be pretty nice to swing a Veritux like you would an ultra-Greatsword from the Soulsborne games. 

also hoping for a pretty edgy looking Skin for this weapon type in the future, my Nekros won't be satisfied with anything less than the ULTIMATE Grim Reaper's blade...

[quxier]

51 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

 

In terms of gameplay, it is something new and different for players to use and will feel slightly different.

Hmm... what's new with this weapon?

[Kainosh]

It was made to satisfy people who were posting "we want huge anime scythes" threads.

No other reason. 

It has no special attacks or features because these people asked only for size and looks.....and that is exactly what they got.  And they are happy.

[Berzerkules]

I like melee and enjoy new weapons, but idk if I want new types of melee. We have melee like 2h Nikana and blade and whip that only have one stance. I'd prefer that we got extra stances for already existing weapon types with only one stance instead of making a stance for newly released stuff like ghoulsaw and thi 2h scythe that only have 1 weapon in that category. 

It's a minor nitpick but 2h nikana stance is trash and I don't really like the blade/whip stance either. There are good weapons that I want to use but having 1 stance I don't enjoy kills the whole class of weapon for me. 

[L3512]

Well it's a new stance (which looks pretty cool.) so that's a whole new category of weapons for the future. There is also the evolving weapons coming as well so I don't mind every new weapon not having a gimmick. Really need to see the stance details and weapon stats but the concept looks good.

[EverdarkRaven]

I don't get the emphasis on it being a "two-handed" scythe. Aren't all scythes two-handed? I thought that was why Kama was designated as a machete and not a scythe; that the Kama was single handed while other scythes are two-handed? It does look pretty cool though and I do like that it is a larger scythe.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

58 minutes ago, Skyeborne said:

I don't get the emphasis on it being a "two-handed" scythe. Aren't all scythes two-handed? I thought that was why Kama was designated as a machete and not a scythe; that the Kama was single handed while other scythes are two-handed? It does look pretty cool though and I do like that it is a larger scythe.

 

Two handed in the sense, you need both your hands to wield it, like a heavy Scythe, the same way we have Gram as a two handed great sword. Compared to dual wielding Dual Kama's, each in a seperate hand, or smaller swords/daggers that go in each hand. 

...

As for the weapon, it looks cool, I like the move set so far, but I tend to be a wait and see sort of person. Actual experience and feel it firsthand before I form harder opinions. Recently I have been playing a lot of high strength Wisp, and heavy and slow melee weapons, and having a lot of fun, so curious if this will feel similar. 

[TheArmchairThinker]

3 hours ago, quxier said:

It doesn't bring anything new.

Define "anything new" because it's a whole new melee class with new attack moves. If it's not "anything new" to you, then what is?

3 hours ago, quxier said:

With Arum spinosa & co you can shoot

Arum spinosa isn't that special, redeemer is the first so it's not new, just happen to be fans with capability to shoot so far.

[ReddyDisco]

Looks cool, hope stats reflect its aesthetics 

[0_The_F00l]

I am just happy i can complete my reaper loadout for my nekros.

I also wish they convert the dohkram 2h stance to a great scythe stance.

[Yamazuki]

2 hours ago, Berzerkules said:

I like melee and enjoy new weapons, but idk if I want new types of melee. We have melee like 2h Nikana and blade and whip that only have one stance. I'd prefer that we got extra stances for already existing weapon types with only one stance instead of making a stance for newly released stuff like ghoulsaw and thi 2h scythe that only have 1 weapon in that category. 

It's a minor nitpick but 2h nikana stance is trash and I don't really like the blade/whip stance either. There are good weapons that I want to use but having 1 stance I don't enjoy kills the whole class of weapon for me. 

Some also seem incomplete and should be given more... but updating something we already have doesn't add new grind to earn or to skip with plat. It's no different to how DE buffs weapons by just adding another version of the same exact weapon but with higher stats or mods/arcanes.

[Berzerkules]

1 minute ago, Yamazuki said:

Some also seem incomplete and should be given more... but updating something we already have doesn't add new grind to earn or to skip with plat. It's no different to how DE buffs weapons by just adding another version of the same exact weapon but with higher stats or mods/arcanes.

I could be wrong but I think DE said something about how they couldn't work on melee stances because they couldn't do motion capture due to covid. Recently Ghoulsaw was released and now a new 2h scythe and both with new stances. They are doing motion capture and I would like them to follow through on other stances as well. 

The new melee weapon types for a single weapon with a single stance also just doesn't sit well with me either. I doubt we'll be getting another stance for the Ghoulsaw or another weapon in that category, just like I doubt that there will be a second stance for 2h scythe or another 2h scythe for a while. It creates another situation like we have with nunchaku, 2h nikana, blade/whips and rapiers where there is only a single stance and if it doesn't fit your play style the whole class of weapons is ignored. 

They could also just make new weapons you have to grind like any thing else without making an entire new weapon class, we already have a scythe class. It just seems unnecessary imo. I'll give it a try, I love melee and will fully forma the thing as soon as I get it. I just hope the stance is enjoyable to play.

[Slayer-.]

Just had a look at the new weapons, all new weapons are MR fodder until I deem them to be good in missions for my playstyle, that's how I roll. 🤣

I'd like to see some more skins for the melee weapons that fit on a lot more and not just one or two weapons.

[Silligoose]

8 hours ago, quxier said:

Hmm... what's new with this weapon?

The weapon class and stance.

[quxier]

9 hours ago, Skyeborne said:

I don't get the emphasis on it being a "two-handed" scythe. Aren't all scythes two-handed? I thought that was why Kama was designated as a machete and not a scythe; that the Kama was single handed while other scythes are two-handed? It does look pretty cool though and I do like that it is a larger scythe.

I copied that from their site.

As (PSN)slightconfuzzled said you need 2 hands to wield it. To add more, you can attack with 2 hands but it's possible to use 1 hand (not in all movements). With "2 handed" weapons it's very hard to use one hand. Weapon can be for example too heavy for 1 hand.

8 hours ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

11 hours ago, quxier said:

 

Define "anything new" because it's a whole new melee class with new attack moves. If it's not "anything new" to you, then what is?

11 hours ago, quxier said:

With Arum spinosa & co you can shoot

Arum spinosa isn't that special, redeemer is the first so it's not new, just happen to be fans with capability to shoot so far.

It's new class/stance with OLD attacks (unless I'm missing something!):

- Standing combo is just swing in front of you.

- Moving combo is just attack while you move.

- Block combo is some "stronger" attack

- Block+moving combo is standing attack then move combo (almost like polearms afair).

As for warfrans (Arum spinosa) & gunblades (Redeemer) it's indeed nothing new if you count it as single attack (heavy attack). However you should take into account whole package. If someone doesn't like gunblade's stances then warfran's stances might for them.

 

"Something new" is something that hasn't been used before (alone or in combination). You can ride (Ghoulsaw) with only 1 weapon. Count how many melees just attack what's in front of frame without moving (some moves but that's a bug).

New animations alone won't bring anything new if they are doing the same stuffs. You can make animation that attack same place from below, from above, from sides (left & right), character can turn 180 degrees and attack what's at their back, they can jump and attack and so on so forth. In other games or real life all those attacks has pros & cons. In WF it's the same stuffs gameplay wise.

 

3 hours ago, Silligoose said:

11 hours ago, quxier said:

 

The weapon class and stance.

 

Ok, that's just some text and animation. I mean above.

8 hours ago, Yamazuki said:

Some also seem incomplete and should be given more... but updating something we already have doesn't add new grind to earn or to skip with plat. It's no different to how DE buffs weapons by just adding another version of the same exact weapon but with higher stats or mods/arcanes.

Sure, changing frames is not very profitable but in my opinion changing weapon classes is. I mean if there is no stance that's good then future weapons from that class would be failure.

8 hours ago, Berzerkules said:

8 hours ago, Yamazuki said:

 

I could be wrong but I think DE said something about how they couldn't work on melee stances because they couldn't do motion capture due to covid. Recently Ghoulsaw was released and now a new 2h scythe and both with new stances. They are doing motion capture and I would like them to follow through on other stances as well. 

It's one thing not being able to motion capture stuffs. It's another thing not caring about just swapping combos. For example Gunblade's bullet dance. Moving combo stops you and move blade around you. Standing combo (almost) moves you forward (can be used for backward movement). There is easy solution. Make combos from "Moving combo" as "Standing combo" and vice versa. Plus allow moving for moving combo. No need for motion capture. I even made topic that would let US do some work:

 

[TeaHands]

Looks cool pretty cool. I like that it's essentially a double sided scythe.

Sound design did really well with the sounds. WOOoooshh.

Wish our weapons weight and size had more impact on enemies.

[DaMasque]

Hmm... The scythe is very in camera when its swung. In my opinion, when you're entering dedicated melee mode, the camera should back out a bit.

I think in the clip Rebecca modded for primed reach so obviously I'm slightly disappointed with its range stat.

But the middle schooler in me is fulfilled with having a huge scythe in game now.

[Silligoose]

4 hours ago, quxier said:

Ok, that's just some text and animation. I mean above.

Exactly. I may originally have been too vague in my first post. We get a new weapon that will feel slightly differently. That's it. In terms of gameplay, I don't see it changing much at all, assuming DE doesn't give it, or the stance, OP stats.

[vanaukas]

I didn't liked it. has everything I despise from melees: Big, slow, long animation. In fact by the pure looks is an absolute nope for me. That being said, I don't think the weapon is bad or ugly, just not for me.

[Tiltskillet]

19 hours ago, quxier said:

How do you feel about it?

I look at it and think, "I would have preferred a spear."

But seriously it looks like they did a really good job with the animations.    That's about all I need from a preview.

[Tiltskillet]

14 hours ago, Berzerkules said:

I could be wrong but I think DE said something about how they couldn't work on melee stances because they couldn't do motion capture due to covid. Recently Ghoulsaw was released and now a new 2h scythe and both with new stances. They are doing motion capture and I would like them to follow through on other stances as well. 

The new melee weapon types for a single weapon with a single stance also just doesn't sit well with me either.

I like warfans and Votive Onslaught very much, but it's mildy irksome to me that the newest (at that time) melee class got a second pve stance while rapiers,  whip blades, and nunchaku had to make do with one for much longer.  And no word of that changing.

[Berzerkules]

20 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

I like warfans and Votive Onslaught very much, but it's mildy irksome to me that the newest (at that time) melee class got a second pve stance while rapiers,  whip blades, and nunchaku had to make do with one for much longer.  And no word of that changing.

I actually like warfans too. Quassus and Arum Spinosa both have their heavy attack gimmicks but for some reason just the basic high slash weight, high speed, high dispo, Gunsen is my favorite of the bunch. Sure, it has low range and lower than average crit chance, but there is enough there to work with. I don't use it enough though, I have so many good melee it's hard to choose, I always seem to default to Nami skyla with swirling tiger stance.