Is Wukong still on top? Warframe ranking discussion

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

So you know how Wukong Prime was that #1 Warframe in the usage charts where nothing else came close? Remember how he got that nerf a while back?  

Well now that's it's been a good while since then, has anyone been seeing Wukong as often in missions, or can we safely assume that he is not nearly as popular compared to pre-nerf Wukong and that the gap between him and Excalibur/Wisp is now much smaller if he has not already lost the lead? 

(Also I am aware it might take until next year to know the full extent of Wukong's nerf on his popularity, and that Wisp Prime's release this year may affect Wisp's rankings as well.)

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

I'd assume he's still fairly popular; I see him semi-regularly. Based on those charts, we might have a good idea who is going to get assassinated next.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

1 minute ago, (XBOX)Ampathetiic said:

I'd assume he's still fairly popular; I see him semi-regularly. Based on those charts, we might have a good idea who is going to get assassinated next.

I mean, they already took a shot a breach surge pretty recently...

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

I see Wisp more often nowadays.

and Really, a Wisp who doesn't know not to use Shock motes, is much more disruptive to me than a Wukong who's just monkeying-off.

 

Hoping for a Wisp Nerf next to cut down on usage.

 

Suggestion: Fused Reservoir augment should have the additional handicap of Halved Pickup Range for the Motes.

This way when an inconsiderate Wisp dumps all 3 (thereby making want to avoid the whole mess) its easier to walk around it.

[Skoomaseller]

he's still popular. aside from him I also see plenty of wisp, volt, titania, gauss. fast frames.

revenant and inaros but mostly in archon showdown. 

[Joezone619]

Wisp, nidus, and inaros are the more likely ones to be at the top now IMO, but thats just based off what i see in matchmaking.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Its important to distinguish a few different ideas. Like being the most popular, and being an extreme or statistical outlier are different. Having an item thats recognised as being very popular, across a field of items that are less popularly, but still moderately used, is different from an item almost having a complete monopoly in its field. 

We already know from DE usage rates, that Wukong is already less used than he was (though, DE's usage rates are by no means comprehensive, and they only track certain metrics, so how well that potentially reflects other metrics, isn't known. Plus I actually only looked at Wukong Primes data, because... well I am lazy). So Wukong's numbers are down. Even though we are only talking about a percent, remember, such percentages could be representative of thousands of players (likely more). Wukong is still very popular, and if I had to guess, he'll still probably be the most used for this year, when we get 2023 stats (though with a Wisp Deluxe coming, and Wisp Prime probably this year... who knows). However thats not necessary the same as Wukong being the most used, with a 15% total player base usage rate. 

To think about this another way? Kuva Nukor was still the most popular Secondary, in 2022, but it wasn't the "monopoly" it was as in 2021. The Laetum and Epitaph could be considered healthy competition, its overall usage rates were significantly lower. Its still the most popular, by a clear margin, but arguably if you were a game Dev or player who wanted a healthier selection of variety from players, then 2022's stats were more ideal. 

There are other factors to consider, like people usually main and hold loyalty towards "characters" more than weapons (though this may depend on the context/game). People may migrate slower to different weapons that the Warframe they dedicated themselves to. Also, how and why they migrate will be dependant on the options they have. Laetum for example, is really really strong and fun. Its going to rise through the usage rankings of Secondaries fast. Phenmor and Felarx are also powerful and fun, but Primaries have more competition, and popular/favourite weapons. They made a decent impact, but not the same way Laetum did. Warframes will probably be more like Primaries than Secondaries. You are not having a whole bunch of Wukong users, switch to one specific weapon, the same way a large amount of players started using the Laetum. They are going to be more spread out across different Warframes, and its not necessarily that they abandon Wukong either, they might just test out other Warframes more. 

There are a lot of variables and angles to consider basically.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

he's not quite as popular, but he's still around: old habits die hard I guess.

Wisp is probably one of the most popular now: powerful kit, countless cosmetics for fashionframe, and her Prime will likely be right after Hildryn Prime.. typically there's a Wisp in every Archon hunt I do. I don't think she'll necessarily get nerfed though, if anything I'd like her Shock Motes and Sol Gate to be buffed and made more viable in Steel Path.

[ReddyDisco]

Well ofcourse he's going to be no1, he's insanely versatile and fast. Though i'm seeing guass almost as much in pubs

 

[MutoManiac]

I see him every time I play him 😉

Seriously though, I play Khora probably more than him these days. And what everyone is also saying, something needs to be done with Wisp. I hate running out of ammo (more than I already do) because of the haste motes and her electricity is counter productive in most missions. I do like her health motes though and really appreciate those. When I play Wisp, I only deploy the health ones.

I'd like to play more frames, but I mostly play SP solo and die a lot with them, although I am getting to be ok with dying a few times as long as the mission doesn't fail. So more frame variety is in my future plans.

I'm sure Wukong will be #1 forever, he's just that good. And if they nerf him again, I'm still using him and dusting off the KZarr and Bramma just for spite. 🙃

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

I mean, they already took a shot a breach surge pretty recently...

I think they just fixed something with it, since it still hits for rediculous amounts of damage.

And as to Wukong usage, barely ever use him. I pick him up for Archon spy and rescue missions with the hacking helminth skill pretty much. Outside of that he feels rather pointless and the only reason I used to play him was when I felt lazy. With the shared ammo he just feels so very clunky. I wouldnt mind if the clone required ammo, it is just the interaction with a shared pool between frame and clone that feels so off. Especially with the damage cut in half, at which point it is just better to play a frame with slotted Roar, or Garuda, which slightly better positioning and you kill the same with better ammo economy and higher damage.

[MqToasty]

Pretty sure the numbers have dropped.  Some may have quit, others found more utility in other frames.  Still see some Wukongs running around, but he does not feel nearly as dominant as before.  I still use him for what I find him best at: Spy missions, so my usage has not changed.

As always, I believe nerfs should only be reserved as a last resort when a developer absolutely runs out of all other tricks.  It costs a lot of goodwill with players who enjoy and have invested heavily in the nerf targets, and throwing around nerfs willy-nilly cannot be good for the game or the company in the long run.

[BowserNC]

I will prob get a lot of hate but I'm glad Wukong's 1st ability got nerfed because it was so very absurd to just be afk and let the twin do everything for you. Yes the nerf kicked hard, but was a necessity, the only thing I would've changed is the twin having it's own limited ammo pool so it would still be useful (like most specters have), instead of using your own ammo.

Wukong is still a great frame (one of my favorites still) and the fact that it still ranked #1 last years proves that players can somehow adapt around the changes.


 

37 minutes ago, MqToasty said:

I believe nerfs should only be reserved as a last resort when a developer absolutely runs out of all other tricks.

This is true but as I mentioned before, it's 1st ability was too powerful imo. 

Also I forgot to mention the 4th ability sucks, the stance is HORRIBLE and should require a change. 

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

33 minutes ago, BowserNC said:

Wukong is still a great frame (one of my favorites still) and the fact that it still ranked #1 last years proves that players can somehow adapt around the changes

The stats we got from last year include a lot of usage from before he was nerfed too so a better way to tell would be this year's stats

[Sojufueled]

I wish we could see the stats with void fissure missions removed.

[Tiltskillet]

Still see him a lot, even in content where he's never been especially good.  But much less than a year ago.

Just to take a guess for fun, the 2023 stats will show him losing a lot of ground, but WK + WK Prime will still be on top.  2024 Wisp + Wisp Prime will take over. 

2025  the top 5, after Pablo gives him a grand "LOL **** IT ALL" rework and quits the game industry to join a monastery for cat lovers, will be Hydroid Prime, Hydroid,  Hydroid Prime, Hydroid Umbra, and Hydroid.

[0_The_F00l]

I am not seeing unlimited explosions , so seems to be less than before .

[gamingchair1121]

8 hours ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

Remember how he got that nerf a while back?  

nerf? you mean the balance check?

anyone who actually took the time to enjoy him didn't get affected, heck I replaced the twin lol, it can't even get kills when I'm using the staff lmao everything dies so quickly

[Harloq]

Always been in the bottom for me.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

3 hours ago, Harloq said:

Always been in the bottom for me.

Lol, not even for mastery points...

[TheGuyver]

13 hours ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

I see Wisp more often nowadays.

and Really, a Wisp who doesn't know not to use Shock motes, is much more disruptive to me than a Wukong who's just monkeying-off.

 

Hoping for a Wisp Nerf next to cut down on usage.

 

Suggestion: Fused Reservoir augment should have the additional handicap of Halved Pickup Range for the Motes.

This way when an inconsiderate Wisp dumps all 3 (thereby making want to avoid the whole mess) its easier to walk around it.

This is an incredibly petty point of view and I love running fused reservoir because of just this type of reaction.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

1 hour ago, TheGuyver said:

This is an incredibly petty point of view and I love running fused reservoir because of just this type of reaction.

'petty' would be if I was asking for nerf just for spite because I don't like wisp players

that's not the case here, I'm asking for a nerf for Practical, Selfish reasons, so they don't inconvenience me as much.

Subtle, but important difference.

[NecroPed]

If anyone has taken number 1 from him I'm going to assume it's wisp. Maybe it's just become a bit more balanced between wisp and wukong now though. Did they give wukong prime away or have it in amazon prime at some point during the last few years? That could have been one part of why it had higher usage too, too far back for me to remember though since I usually already own the frames being given out. 

[Lilybun]

15 hours ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

Suggestion: Fused Reservoir augment should have the additional handicap of Halved Pickup Range for the Motes.

As a wisp player I'd love to be able to put down red and green motes quickly and easily without having to do the tap hold tap hold morse code casting. The only reason I use fused reservoir is to simplify the inputs even when I dont really need shock.

If DE allowed me to bind the individual motes to different keybinds (personally I'd run ctrl+1 for red, shift+1 for green and alt+1 for blue) I wouldn't have to run fused reservoirs for QoL and it would be far easier to not be disruptive in general on wisp. I already run minimum range but it hardly helps when one misinput morse code letter can force you and your team to wait 80s for shock mote to wear off before you enter a spy room.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

25 minutes ago, NecroPed said:

If anyone has taken number 1 from him I'm going to assume it's wisp. Maybe it's just become a bit more balanced between wisp and wukong now though. Did they give wukong prime away or have it in amazon prime at some point during the last few years? That could have been one part of why it had higher usage too, too far back for me to remember though since I usually already own the frames being given out. 

 

Wukong had high usage because he's Easy

you get high personal survivability, plus high maneuverability for speedrunning

Making him ideal for Lazy MniMax Farmers who want to blow through missions just for rewards but not really play.

the downside being, he contributes Nothing to team or objective support. -and despite claims of his Specter+Bramma being overpowered, no he doesn't really help out as a DPS Frame.*

 

*Ironically, this was used as the justification for the nerfing.

Personally I think a better approach instead of Nerfing Wukong, would be to give him more Support abilities to make him a team player and quell resentment.  -Imagine if Cloud Walking through allies healed them and removed status effects? or if Defy also created an Aura where his armor buff could be shared? people wouldn't be scapegoating him as a lazy afk-er if they could benefit too.