Please switch Incarnon Forms of Atomos and Kulstar/Torid back to what they were supposed to be, thanks.

[-Kittens-]

Just because the Kulstar wasn't ready doesn't mean I want a nine meter tether mine on my particle cannon.

 

I realize no one asked for this but also no one asked for this.

[--END--Rikutatis]

I'm kinda disappointed with what the torid became, just a generic chaining beam. Torid has been one of my favorite weapons since I started playing the game, its original gimmick of the status cloud bombs was really cool and unique, I really wish they would have kept it and just made it stronger. 

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

2 hours ago, --END--Rikutatis said:

I'm kinda disappointed with what the torid became, just a generic chaining beam. Torid has been one of my favorite weapons since I started playing the game, its original gimmick of the status cloud bombs was really cool and unique, I really wish they would have kept it and just made it stronger. 

But they did make it stronger

the stat perks apply to both modes (in fact Evo2 and 3 arguably Only Benefit normal mode) so just don't activate the Incarnon switch, and you've got yourself a buffed Torid.

[snoozecruise]

I like it when the Incarnon modes stay in theme somewhat with the original weapons. For example, the Lex, as strong as it is, seems fairly balanced since it only has 20 shots at a low fire rate, which helps to keep the "hand cannon" feel. The Boltor was also nice; the original was a sort of spray-and-pray-friendly weapon, and Incarnon greatly enhances that with a shotgun-like mode. Kunai and Furis were also similar; their Incarnon modes didn't completely trivialize horde situations.

The increase in base stats for the Torid is welcome, but turning it into a beam weapon, especially when the Atomos is offered the same week, seems a bit uninspired. I would've liked something that stayed with the gas theme, like maybe turning it into a flamethrower-like gas gun, or maybe a very slow, but very potent and large punch-through gas cloud, kinda like D&D Cloud Kill or something.

Considering the Atomos is supposedly some kind of particle cannon, maybe something like Wisp's Sol Gate would've been more appropriate? Like... another beam mode, but more potent, more focused, and infinite punch-through slicing through hordes. The base form with Incarnon stat upgrade is already potent enough, so I'm not sure it really needed more cluster AOE.

I realize not all weapons need to be designed this way though. The Felarx Incarnon mode isn't popular, but I think it actually works well and serves a purpose; the base shotgun is already crazy strong, so it's just kinda giving you other options. The feel of the Incarnon mode also greatly helps -- the feel of shooting streaking comets is pretty fun.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the Torid and Atomos though -- it's just... I think we already have enough beam and AOE bomb weapons.

I'm interested to see what next week's Vasto and Burston will turn into. I wouldn't mind the Burston keeping the burst theme, but turning into something like the Mass Effect Cerberus Harrier -- something with some chunky burst punch (maybe with a small AOE splash?), while still requiring some more skill beyond point-and-click room clearers. ...but maybe that's just me.

[(PSN)Sentiel]

I like the idea of an AoE weapon turning into a single target monster (Torid is close but not really) instead of the opposite we usually get. That said some of the Incarnon versions are weird. Like, I like Furis' beam but it doesn't really fit the weapon. It's something I would expect from Atomos.

[God_is_a_Cat_Girl]

4 hours ago, snoozecruise said:

Considering the Atomos is supposedly some kind of particle cannon, maybe something like Wisp's Sol Gate would've been more appropriate? Like... another beam mode, but more potent, more focused, and infinite punch-through slicing through hordes. The base form with Incarnon stat upgrade is already potent enough, so I'm not sure it really needed more cluster AOE.

I just got the Atomos adapter and I'm beyond disappointed. It turned a weapon that created a new gimmick into a generic launcher that doesn't even have projectile animations and feels weaker than the base weapon.

And honestly I'm starting to get bored with the Incarnon weapons. The concept is interesting, but almost all of them are just AoE and worse yet is that some can make builds mismatch the base gun and in those cases you can't even make proper use of both modes (and incarnon is very much anti switching modes). It feels like DE read the absolute worst posts some people made (give AoE to all guns to solve the "AoE problem") and made it happen, and it's making the game boring.

I love the Latron for it's simplicity, it feels satisfying. Sure, with AoE it can kill more (and it also kills punchthrough) but it sure isn't fun to hit an enemy straight ahead only for the projectile to return to me and knock me down (screw being forced to run anti knockdown). Like I said, Incarnon is a good concept, but the mode is so distant from the base weapon that it's not even an improvement, just a completely detached mode that you either always use or always ignore. When I use the Latron I don't want to use whatever AoE gun, when I use the Braton I don't want to use the Acceltra. When I use the Atomos I don't want to use a generic launcher.

At least the Dual Toxocyt, Lato and Boltor aren't too different from the base gun, and if anything Dual Toxocyst should've got full auto when the Knell for full Auto as well.

And IMO Incarnon should've been expanded to remove some mods and instead add them as Incarnon nodes (or even modes). Many "bad weapons" have augment mods to make them better, but then installing the mod actually makes them weaker as many are gimmicks that don't make the gun strong enough to compensate losing a slot (or even lose extra elements),

[-Kittens-]

On 2023-05-15 at 8:56 AM, --END--Rikutatis said:

I'm kinda disappointed with what the torid became, just a generic chaining beam. Torid has been one of my favorite weapons since I started playing the game, its original gimmick of the status cloud bombs was really cool and unique, I really wish they would have kept it and just made it stronger. 

For some reason an old school literal room nuke with auto toxin apply is OP but having the death star chain like a fist of the north star move is fine.

 

On 2023-05-15 at 11:13 AM, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

But they did make it stronger

the stat perks apply to both modes (in fact Evo2 and 3 arguably Only Benefit normal mode) so just don't activate the Incarnon switch, and you've got yourself a buffed Torid.

 

No one cares. BEEG NUMBAR is >literally< the generic stat of ALL incarnons. All of them. All incarnons will have BEEG NUMBAR. Players whom have been waiting >10 years< for their fave weapon to be even more weapon LIKE IT IS, but even better and flashy and cooler are now being told what they want by someone working at the company for three. It's not annoying, it's insulting, specifically in light that all of this stuff could have been polled. All you had to do was ask.

I DO NOT WANT A WAL*MART KULSTAR. I want an Atomos, now with double the Clem. I do not need an exploding mace melee weapon. I have Elden Ring at home.

 

 

 

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

5 minutes ago, -Kittens- said:

even more weapon LIKE IT IS,

Well, if you don't swap modes, it Literally is Exactly the same projectile and mechanics you're used to.

there's no Possible way to get even more "like it is" than that.

if you want 'flash', change your energy color.

 

[Tiltskillet]

On 2023-05-15 at 5:52 PM, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

Well, if you don't swap modes, it Literally is Exactly the same projectile and mechanics you're used to.

It's true.  I'm taking this strategy with the Strun, and probably will with the Latron. 

And yet...I feel it would have been better to have come up with something a little more evocative of the character of basic Atomos.  For example, keeping it beam based, but also adding Ignis style AoE spheres at the beam ends.    Or adding a tendril mechanic like the Ocucor's.   Or a low range grouping effect on the first target hit.  Etc.

Fortunately for me it's not a weapon I care about, but I can understand some fans of it feeling let down.

[Mr.Holyroller]

On 2023-05-15 at 1:48 AM, -Kittens- said:

Just because the Kulstar wasn't ready doesn't mean I want a nine meter tether mine on my particle cannon.

 

I realize no one asked for this but also no one asked for this.

You realize the weapons also get major buffs as well with the incarnon transformation right?
Like you dont have to use the transformation.

Does everyone  in this thread that's complaining not understand that?

[(PSN)Sentiel]

To address some things said here.

It seems that DE was hellbent on giving each weapon a unique Incarnon form, which might have been a mistake. I understand turning all weapons into AoE just makes the AoE problem worse but it can be done in a good way.

Lato's Incarnon form gives it's shots a sort of a shrapnel effect. Once you hit an enemy, all enemies in the vicinity get damaged as well, but if you hit a surface of any kind, this effect won't trigger. So, you kinda have AoE but can't be lazy with it by just shooting anywhere.

I think this is a great feature and I would personally prefer this over what Braton and Latron got instead.

[Tiltskillet]

8 hours ago, (PSN)Sentiel said:

It seems that DE was hellbent on giving each weapon a unique Incarnon form

Sure.  Atomos is especially divergent.  From what I've seen on video there's not even a visible projectile.   So I do find it very plausible it was originally Kulstar's Incarnon gimmick spliced on at the last minute.

 

[Famecans]

I like torid and the normal mode toxic cloud mechanic is very strong with increased firerate.

I think the toxic cloud mechanic could be integrated into incarnon mode, two quick clicks to launch the toxic cloud and hold the button for automatic fire.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

meh, there's always a *slim* chance that a variant will come along that provides what you want, and to be fair, the Void is extremely unpredictable, so even though you can upgrade weapons with it, there's no guarantee what you'd get. Imagine if DE leaned into this and the mode was totally random from a set pool of choices for each weapon: If you didn't get one you liked/wanted, tough luck pal, you just wasted an Incarnon Genesis and now have to wait 6 weeks for another one for that same weapon. I'm guessing that's why they didn't decide to do this.

anyway as others have said, normal modes are still usable and get stat increases too. 

[XaoGarrent]

5 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

meh, there's always a *slim* chance that a variant will come along that provides what you want, and to be fair, the Void is extremely unpredictable, so even though you can upgrade weapons with it, there's no guarantee what you'd get. Imagine if DE leaned into this and the mode was totally random from a set pool of choices for each weapon: If you didn't get one you liked/wanted, tough luck pal, you just wasted an Incarnon Genesis and now have to wait 6 weeks for another one for that same weapon. I'm guessing that's why they didn't decide to do this.

anyway as others have said, normal modes are still usable and get stat increases too. 

They could have given each weapon three incarnon modes from the total pool of incarnon modes they've made, with the three modes chosen based on how similar or different they are from the normal weapon... Then allowed the player to use a smaller amount of resources to reroll or rotate through the three different incarnon modes.

Let's say, Convergent - Synergistic - Dissonant

-Convergent is basically a superpowered, upgraded version of the original weapon's firing mode, like the Incarnon Miter (which is great, by the way. Ammo count is kinda too low, but this thing is a blast to use regardless). This might require more incarnon modes to be created for some oddball guns, but that's not a bad thing. Just... More work. 

-Synergistic is a different firing mode, but one that covers a similar use case, or is complimentary to the main firing mode. I think the Strun Wraith qualifies as this, as it really functions like a Torgue rocket shotgun, especially if you get a multishot riven.

-Dissonant is completely different, and may cover a completely different use case than the normal firing mode. It might also just be straight up quirky. This is obviously something like the Latron Wraith, where it's secondary fire completely diverges from the original.

For bonus points, the equipped incarnon form alters the evolutions a little to better fit the theme and functionality of the choice.

The main issue with this is that it would probably be hell to balance. Especially as now the *bad* incarnon modes are a potential trap that exists across multiple weapons. I don't think that's too much a problem, though, because most of the incarnon forms are at least very good, if not great.

[(XBOX)CaligulaTwily]

On 2023-05-15 at 12:37 PM, snoozecruise said:

I like it when the Incarnon modes stay in theme somewhat with the original weapons. For example, the Lex, as strong as it is, seems fairly balanced since it only has 20 shots at a low fire rate, which helps to keep the "hand cannon" feel. The Boltor was also nice; the original was a sort of spray-and-pray-friendly weapon, and Incarnon greatly enhances that with a shotgun-like mode. Kunai and Furis were also similar; their Incarnon modes didn't completely trivialize horde situations.

The increase in base stats for the Torid is welcome, but turning it into a beam weapon, especially when the Atomos is offered the same week, seems a bit uninspired. I would've liked something that stayed with the gas theme, like maybe turning it into a flamethrower-like gas gun, or maybe a very slow, but very potent and large punch-through gas cloud, kinda like D&D Cloud Kill or something.

Considering the Atomos is supposedly some kind of particle cannon, maybe something like Wisp's Sol Gate would've been more appropriate? Like... another beam mode, but more potent, more focused, and infinite punch-through slicing through hordes. The base form with Incarnon stat upgrade is already potent enough, so I'm not sure it really needed more cluster AOE.

I realize not all weapons need to be designed this way though. The Felarx Incarnon mode isn't popular, but I think it actually works well and serves a purpose; the base shotgun is already crazy strong, so it's just kinda giving you other options. The feel of the Incarnon mode also greatly helps -- the feel of shooting streaking comets is pretty fun.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the Torid and Atomos though -- it's just... I think we already have enough beam and AOE bomb weapons.

I'm interested to see what next week's Vasto and Burston will turn into. I wouldn't mind the Burston keeping the burst theme, but turning into something like the Mass Effect Cerberus Harrier -- something with some chunky burst punch (maybe with a small AOE splash?), while still requiring some more skill beyond point-and-click room clearers. ...but maybe that's just me.

Bad news, Burston is likely gonna be a laser beam thing. Heat damage, Rof 20/sec, 2m radial attack, and 300m range

[0_The_F00l]

I would indeed prefer if the incarnon forms maintain the identity of the weapons and then add some interesting gimmicks to it,

Torid and Atomos are definitely the ones that stand out the most , but even the latron and strun are not that far back - they turn into something that was never the main reason players liked that weapon.

I think the lato , Dual toxocyst and Boltor incarnon forms are on point on what they should be, improvements with gimmicks that enhance the existing style not change it completely.

 

But with that said , i am still enjoying the strun and torid in its regular form , i am not forced to go into incarnon mode and the stats boosts make it better than what it was. Is it a tad bit off putting ? yes , i would prefer the strun had a similar mechanic to lato , and the torid worked more like the proboscis cernos.

[Blockomaniac]

Yeah, I did find it a bit disappointing that the Torid's incarnon form was a beam. It's cool and all, but doesn't really feel like Torid anymore. I'll probably mess around with it a bit, but primarily use the main firing mode since that gets buffs as well. Would be cool if they changed it to be a launcher in its incarnon form instead, but it wouldn't be fair to change it now for all the people who like the beam as it is I suppose

[SneakyErvin]

I have no idea why people think incarnon mode should be the same as the base mode since it is practically not a thing on a single incarnon weapon out there aside from melee. They all change into a different mechanic of some sort, from semi-auto to full-auto mini explosions, or semi-auto to full-auto massive magazine with punch through, full-auto pellet shotgun to semi-auto plasmor etc. So Torid and Atomos and all other genesis weapons follow the pattern by changing the mechanics.

And like with Felarx you are free to stay in the base form for a benefit if you like with the Atomos or Torid. The only part is that Atomos incarnon mode feels lackluster.

Also acting as if the bugged perk is intended when people suggest you stick to base form on Atomos is hilarious! Cos clearly they released a weapon with an intendedly broken perk as a feature that will never actually get fixed right? 

[DYSEQTA]

14 hours ago, (XBOX)CaligulaTwily said:

Burston is likely gonna be a laser beam thing. Heat damage, Rof 20/sec, 2m radial attack, and 300m range

Oh Lord please make it so.

[Leqesai]

Did we get shown the kulsar incarnon? It isn't on the release schedule right now so how do ya'll even know the incarnon mode is going to be disappointing?

 

Also, I like the atomos incarnon mode. It's nice having a reliable chaining beam weapon and a hard hitting explosive in one weapon slot.

[Raarsi]

Incarnon mode that proves to be somehow less effective than the base weapon...

I think such a circumstance should be officially dubbed "Felarx Syndrome".