Pay plat to skip story content to access latest content-dev stream

[Pakaku]

How is this paying to win. Just because you can reach later parts of the game doesn't really mean you win anything

[ABlindGuyPlays]

Just now, Cerikus said:

Sure, but you are missing one huge point that changes a lot. You had knowledge of 6 years. You knew how and where to go, you knew everything. Warframe is about knowledge and experience... 

Another story I have: About a year ago I got my ex to play Warframe with me. She enjoyed the game and I did all I could to make the experience for her as nice as possible. I offered to push her through, but she refused, because being pushed through was not nice time. It took her 112 hours at a very reasonable pace with my guidence to get to New war.

That is the typical Warframe experience and if you don't have guidance and you have no prior experience in the game it is more than 112 hours.

And this is fair as acounter point. Reevalujuating quest progression is a good thing since therei s a lot of content that frankly needs examination.

A lot of early operations could be turned into quest or even star chart progression. Just as the game goes along here are transmissions and other things going on. Stuff that adds life to what's gon one and what's going on instead of alad V showing up constantly with no explaination (please tell me he is Dead dead post new war please. Someone?)

I just dislike that this basically gives a framework for DE to go 'yea you can pay to SKIP our story.'

And just think on the message THAT sends. This game that everyone holds up as micro-transactions doen right shoving a giant 'Here skip to current content Wallet Please' button at your face.

I'd see that, go 'Nope' and turn around. 

[DrBorris]

Just now, PublikDomain said:

-snip-

DE has been and seem to plan on continuing to improve the experience. The reason they want to give an option is, as I've said, to get players to the new content. Reb said in the official WF Discord that they are going so far as to add new quests between Vor's Prize and TSD.

Veteran players don't want to play old content when new content is out. Twisting that into a negative is a bit of a stretch.

 

I also think the "just keep squishing" is a terrible idea. You can't squish forever, the reason TSD is so good is because you played the game for hours before it. The power progression feels good because of the time frame it takes place over. The story needs breathing room, I was worried that DE would continue to squish everything together until it was an unintelligible mess. The proposal of a skip and adding more content has me far more excited for the new player experience than making it only 10 hours. Lean into the new player experience, make it a good experience, but give an option for those that dgaf.

 

Also this is my hot take on how to go about this...

28 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

I think the concern "it looks bad to offer a new player to skip your story" is a pretty big one. Regardless of intention, it looks bad. I don't know if it is possible but I think avoiding a monetary cost would be best.

As for implementation, I think it would be more interesting to approach it as an "in medias res" as opposed to a skip. Utilize the Duviri 'rental' gear mechanics, let them play with decent gear and grind some of their own new stuff. But then leave the original progression path completely intact. Then allow for that player to swap between their "new content" and "personal progress" paths at will, two separate silos of progression. Have any new content acquired in the 'personal' path feed into the 'new' path, then whenever the 'personal' path meets the 'new' path the silos merge into each other.

So basically make it like Duviri...

 

I could imagine this actually acting as something that gets some players more interested in the story. Vor's Prize doesn't grab everyone, but imagine starting with Whispers. I could very much imagine someone going "how did we get here? I gotta see how we got here."

 

Attempting to summarize the story into a digestible time frame will ruin the story. Yall at DE are great, but that is an actually impossible task. Don't try to summarize it, put it off to the side and leave it for later. Those summaries as a reminder would still be awesome though.

 

3 minutes ago, (XBOX)Architect Prime said:

I didn't come to any conclusions. I'm just explaining why I don't like story skip, and how it plays into my wider concerns. I'm giving productive feedback and I even offered a solution to the problem. I think you're jumping to an overdramatic interpretation of things. I honestly have more faith in DE than most studios. 

... you started your explanation with "DE has been getting more greedy," then focus on the monetary aspect as if that is the primary motivation. I obviously don't know what you're thinking, but if that isn't the impression you intended to give then you should've probably led with something else.

[Circle_of_Psi]

12 minutes ago, Roble_Viejo said:

Paying to Unlock and Complete content is NOT the way to go forward
Just let Players skip those Quests, dont make it a Monetization Tactic

get ready for the flocks of people who will defend this idea, cuz DE can do nothing wrong Roble

[TARINunit9]

"- This is a weakness because it can be a time investment that turns people away."

Is it really a weakness?

Warframe is the closest thing to an MMO I've played, but do other MMO players really have a problem with that? Do people really pick up an MMO they've never heard of before and think "I want to jump to the very end of the story immediately and ignore 90% of the content?"

My understanding of writing is to just tell them "tough beans, play all the quests. Yeah it will take two months, but that's literally what everyone here signed up for"

[JustinJustinJustinJustin]

I dunno how I feel about this idea tbh

We went from pay to skip (buying frames or rushing) to pay to not play?

It doesn't feel good for veterans or new players, veterans are gonna be mad about having all their progress feel invalidated and new players are going to skip half the "game"of this game.

 

 

Also if would encourage making quests a absolute slogfest to encourage people to just buy their way through it 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

11 minutes ago, Roble_Viejo said:

This is literally the definition of Pay to Win, through and through

it's literally not: what exactly do you win, that gives you an actual advantage over other players, from ignoring the story? if anything it puts you at a disadvantage against anyone who knows the story/lore, because they'll know more than you if you skip it. skipping the story at best puts you in the same spot as someone like me, who has done all the story from start to finish, so you can do the new quest, sure, but you're still only getting the same experience and rewards as anyone else; there's notangible  "advantage to be had"

please don't throw around terms you don't fully understand. 

 

[Stormandreas]

Pay to win requires Competition and advantage over other players. This would not be the case.

It's still Pay to Skip, but a very poorly thought out one imo.

 

If they had simple a "Pay to play story ONLY", that's different. I.e. only story, use Loaner equipment, don't unlock anything. That's fine and no longer removes the whole purpose of grinding to get to the next thing.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Stormandreas

[(XBOX)Itz2Cat]

The more i read these comments the more i think i have a point.

If the skip is implemented, what would be the issue if the skip had a massive WARNING and then a list of negatives and positives that come with this purchase.

A player could read these and then figure out if this option is for them or not.

The player that does not care for the negatives could buy it.

The player that does, would not.

Easy! Right?

[Cerikus]

1 minute ago, ABlindGuyPlays said:

And this is fair as acounter point. Reevalujuating quest progression is a good thing since therei s a lot of content that frankly needs examination.

A lot of early operations could be turned into quest or even star chart progression. Just as the game goes along here are transmissions and other things going on. Stuff that adds life to what's gon one and what's going on instead of alad V showing up constantly with no explaination (please tell me he is Dead dead post new war please. Someone?)

I just dislike that this basically gives a framework for DE to go 'yea you can pay to SKIP our story.'

And just think on the message THAT sends. This game that everyone holds up as micro-transactions doen right shoving a giant 'Here skip to current content Wallet Please' button at your face.

I'd see that, go 'Nope' and turn around. 

I totally agree that the message could be very bad, which is something I said somewhere in here as well. The whole taste of the onboarding experience could be tainted by "go grind for 200h or you can pay us, lul", which would be detrimental to everything. And as you say "skip our story" sounds disgusting, which is something Reb said on the devstream herself. They know it's a problem.

However, I do have to agree with one thing that's been said as well. There is nothing DE can do to lower the barrier "enough". If the game gave you everything for free and said "just play the story quests", that's still like 15-20 hours of gameplay... It doesn't seem like much compared to thousands of hours people put in this game, but it is too much for this huge amount of potential playeres that the game could attract. (Like my friends, who don't care for the grind, but would totally jump in the game for a few hours when the new update drops)

Like, damn... This is trully a situation.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

As someone who mentored several people, I feel DE's logic in my bones.

I'm not sure about involving plat in it, but there's definetly a need to fast track progress for new players to the latest content.

The game just keeps getting larger and longer, which is natural given its live service status, and this is a matter of "when", not "if". Regardless of being for or against it.

I'm in unless a better option presents itself.

Edited October 27, 2023 by (PSN)Hikuro-93

[Roble_Viejo]

hace 12 minutos, RLanzinger dijo:

to @Roble_Viejo,

Do a screen Capture, faster for everyone :

 

Yeah, you're right. I removed the link and added the Image.

[Letter13]

Reminds me of the MSQ skips in FFXIV; I don't see how such a thing would be bad given how much content there is now locked behind story completion.

Not at all mandatory and serves primarily as a way for players to get to the more recent & relevant content... and gives a good way for new players to 'catch up' to their friends who've been with the game longer so they can play together.

Moreso 'Pay for Convenience' than 'Pay to Win' in my eyes, since all the stuff in the pack could be obtained for free without paying a dime (but with a lot of time and effort, that newer players might not have the patience for if their goal is to play with friends of theirs who are much further ahead than they).

 

Making it platinum based is an interesting choice though, I'd expect it to be a flat monetary purchase.

[NekroArts]

1 minute ago, TARINunit9 said:

"- This is a weakness because it can be a time investment that turns people away."

Is it really a weakness?

Warframe is the closest thing to an MMO I've played, but do other MMO players really have a problem with that? Do people really pick up an MMO they've never heard of before and think "I want to jump to the very end of the story immediately and ignore 90% of the content?"

It's definitely a thing. So many times people are taking the word of others recommending them to play their game, but they don't stop to think and completely underestimate the time commitment. 

[Garbor]

The fact people think FF14/WoW Skip mechanics are the same as what's intended by DE is baffling. Warframe's core concept is power progression and the story, giving new players a way to completely get to endgame where they are either going to be carried or complain that "game too hard", and once again we might get DE dumbing down the game. I've had countless friends drop the game once they saw the quest wall, but if a skip were to be added i wouldn't enjoy having to explain every single system/mechanic up to that point because they decided they were lazy and now other players have to carry their ass.

 

And Pay2Skip also causes harm both ways in FF14/WoW if people want to keep comparing games, you get players who know nothing how mechanics/jobs work and make the experience worse for everyone, and will usually get backlash when they go on content they have absolutely no clue of what they are doing.

[Letter13]

1 minute ago, NekroArts said:

It's definitely a thing. So many times people are taking the word of others recommending them to play their game, but they don't stop to think and completely underestimate the time commitment. 

Echoing this. The time commitment can be brutal. Doubly so if a newer player is trying to catch up to friends who are all on current content.

[schilds]

At this point you have to ask why they switched away from the "co-operative live universe" model to the "solo cinematic quest" model.

Edited October 27, 2023 by schilds

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 3 minutos, Garbor dijo:

The fact people think FF14/WoW Skip mechanics are the same as what's intended by DE is baffling. Warframe's core concept is power progression and the story, giving new players a way to completely get to endgame where they are either going to be carried or complain that "game too hard", and once again we might get DE dumbing down the game. I've had countless friends drop the game once they saw the quest wall, but if a skip were to be added i wouldn't enjoy having to explain every single system/mechanic up to that point because they decided they were lazy and now other players have to carry their ass.

 

And Pay2Skip also causes harm both ways in FF14/WoW if people want to keep comparing games, you get players who know nothing how mechanics/jobs work and make the experience worse for everyone, and will usually get backlash when they go on content they have absolutely no clue of what they are doing.

Exactly.

[hawkdidi69]

Hello,
I’m creating this post to reflect on constructive ideas only, so the devs may have usefull data on how to proceed with the topic of “skiping history” for the new palyers.

After explaining where i had pick up the idea, i will tell you my idea.

I’ve played to SWTOR and they had a similar predicament and they had an interesting way to proceed.

They gave a new character to play with and it had the required level and equipment to do the extension. Once the extension was completed by the player, they got to keep this new character that would stay high level but would get level down back to the level of the beginner quests during them (for example, the character is lvl 75, it would go back to lvl 10 to do the lvl 10quest and then go back to level 75 at the end of it).

Those are my propositions for warframe :

-          To be able to chose between a farmed character or a temporary character (same as for Duviri Paradox)

o   The farmed warframe, must have all the requirement to participate to the extension

o   The temporary warframe would have the minimum requirements to do the extension. Once done, the warframe and its equipments (like the railjack and the archwing) would be locked until the player would catch up with the story.

Sorry for my english, i'm french and i'm not very good in english

 

 

 

[(XBOX)Itz2Cat]

3 minutes ago, schilds said:

At this point you have to ask why they switched away from the "co-operative live universe" model to the "solo cinematic quest" model.

More quality content, faster. In my opinion that's a fair trade off. 

Edited October 27, 2023 by (XBOX)Itz2Cat

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

19 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

... you started your explanation with "DE has been getting more greedy," then focus on the monetary aspect as if that is the primary motivation. I obviously don't know what you're thinking, but if that isn't the impression you intended to give then you should've probably led with something else.

The twisting of what I said and trying to over analyze it into a drama-posting oblivion that goes on for 30 pages is not my interest. I'm here to give constructive feedback that's on-topic. I will not respond to further bait. However, I'm happy to talk about the actual subject-matter. 

Edited October 27, 2023 by (XBOX)Architect Prime

[Perrierite]

I usually don't post complaints of sort, this but I will put this. It is not a good idea.
If it's not skipping but "progress in x10 speed mode" loan-a-frame-of-your-choise (with maxed mods that can run though basic starchart content) and remove all MR/craft restrictions so that accessing contents faster (like "paid tier" of battlepass) might make sense (it's like paying and skipping build time - it won't steal the joy of acquisition/making progress itself).

But even then I still say it won't work in long run.

Warframe's story is emotional since TSD. Story mechanicls heavily rely on the assumption that through customization and game-play loop players feel frames/operator/drifter truly theirs. If someone skips whole story they wouldn't have emotional attachment at all. How would they care the story then? How that leads to new player hooked to the story, and stay the game and wait for the new update?

[bad4youLT]

46 minutes ago, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

They are all also dated/old content. So it's not like these carry the same weight as they did when they first came out.

Not only that. We have players in this game that have zero f$%KS to give when it comes to this content.

Now these might be big, meaningful and emotional moments to YOU as a player but they also might not be to others. These are all subjective feelings. 

Your statement can also be considered as subjective. 

On top all the story quest up to New War serve as Rite of Passage.

New War concludes the longest running story arc in Warframe , and with its end , new one begins with Whispers in the Walls.

[Cerikus]

I just remembered I have another story that will add a reason for why this would be good idea, even though I am not convinced it is. Ironic...

We recently had a LAN party with my friends. One never played Warframe, one played it for like 50 hours in 2016. I booted up the game, picked a very good and easy loadout to play and I've selected several missions for them to play for fun. There were some normal missions, but I also started some Railjack missions and then I even started the Duviri experience.

They had a blast and enjoyed every second of the gameplay and the didn't care AT ALL about why they are doing it or what they are doing. Only question that came up was that the friend that played second dream in 2016 asked me: "Who is this dude I am playing as, that's not the operator, is it?" I said: "Well, it's a spoiler, you can learn about it in a quest, but I can tell you..." and he replied. "Nah, I don't really care that much, but it's fun." And kept playing...

The questline of warframe is amazing and precious, but so many people don't care and just want to murder stuff in cool ways. 

Let's not forget the promotional material for Whispers in the Walls will have "NEW WEAPON TYPE - GRIMOIRE" and everyone will want to murder crowds with magic book, but they will realize they have to grind for 200h to get to it...

Edited October 27, 2023 by Cerikus

[German]

Best way of doing it I think is to make the skip free and give players borrowed gear like they do in duviri. If they like the gear they can buy it. But the general skip shouldnt cost anything.