We need an augment slot

[Circle_of_Psi]

37 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

That does not prove it.

But banging your proverbial head onto the dusty floor where the dead horse once was won't get you what you want.

Exactly

[Harutomata]

1 hour ago, Skoomaseller said:

as long as DE keeps releasing bandaids but calls them augments instead of tweaking base abilities/frames, or creates augments so strong that it would be unwise not to run them in your builds or creates augments that really just should be part of the base kit's function, I support this idea

I agree with this more than with the main post on this topic.
For some frames an augment slot would be too strong, but for some older frames DE made augments in a way that you have to question "why isn't this part of the base ability" because it's effectively a bandaid on an otherwise outdated ability.
Considering Corrosive Barrage is now part of Hydroid's reworked Tempest Barrage, hopefully it means DE started realizing this.

[Aruquae]

3 hours ago, Waeleto said:

That would involve them removing all the augment mods no ? a lot of people bought them with plat so idk how they'd feel

No, just the smaller augments like energy transfer

The game changing ones like Nekros would stay, the band-aids would go
Or better yet just fix the ones that are band-aids

[ReddyDisco]

No we don't

[-Krism-]

1 hour ago, Hexerin said: all objectively wrong. Full stop.

I won't be engaging further, because there's no discussion to have here.

You're wrong

/thread

[--Leyenda-yight6]

It's true that some warframes require augments to survive at higher levels (Equinox's augment of 4 is necessary if you want to use his full kit, Volt needs an augment of 4 to survive) but the solution would be an overhaul, a slot would not solve the problem that older warframes have and would only further increase the power of stronger warframes.

[Tiltskillet]

54 minutes ago, Waeleto said:

Because they're using the augments as bandaids for problems in the base kit/ability instead of actually fixing them, take rhino for example you have to run an augment to simply recast his iron skin

You know what a smart solution for that would be? Fixing the ability.  Rather than, you know, adding an augment slot to every frame,  whether they need it or not. :/

You're probably thinking "But they'll never fix the abilities that need it."  It's very rare, but they do sometimes go back and give old abilities QoL or outright boosts.   And at least the Design Director hasn't outright said it's not happening.  Which he has about augment slots, most recently a month ago.

 

 

[(XBOX)Rez090]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

The fact that a handful of Augments aren't strong enough to justify using doesn't mean that all Augments need a free slot; rather, it means that the underpowered Augments need buffs so that they can compete with normal mods to be best-in-slot, the way that the good Augments already do.

The result of your suggestion would be blanket power-creep without actually addressing the fundamental issue, increasing the power disparity between Warframes with strong Augments and Warframes with weak Augments.  Because suddenly every build that already had a strong Augment as best-in-slot now gets an additional normal mod slot, while every build that couldn't justify using a weak Augment instead gets a paltry slot for a weak Augment.  The strong get significantly stronger, and the weak get only mildy stronger.  It's a bad idea.

Why does this give me the vibe that this isn't an argument against a dedicated augment slot and more an argument about weak augments instead?

[Waeleto]

19 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

You know what a smart solution for that would be? Fixing the ability.  Rather than, you know, adding an augment slot to every frame,  whether they need it or not. :/

You're probably thinking "But they'll never fix the abilities that need it."  It's very rare, but they do sometimes go back and give old abilities QoL or outright boosts.   And at least the Design Director hasn't outright said it's not happening.  Which he has about augment slots, most recently a month ago.

 

 

let's be honest are we really expecting them to fix every ability that needs fix and rework the augments that originally offered that fix ?

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

18 minutes ago, Waeleto said:

let's be honest are we really expecting them to fix every ability that needs fix and rework the augments that originally offered that fix ?

That's more likely to happen than an augment slot

[trst]

Yeah, no. The only issue with the existing augment system is that some aren't worth slotting. This isn't an excuse to put the game into an even deeper hole of powercreep but a reason to continue pushing for buffs/reworks on underperforming augments.

 

Also I'll repeat the same idea brought up every time this topic is: if DE ever was to add an augment slot it should be via Helminth. That way instead of throwing another free slot at frames it'd at least make it come at the opportunity cost of a Helminth swap. Simultaneously restricting the powercreep potential and not leaving new frames with empty slots for a year or more.

[Tiltskillet]

29 minutes ago, Waeleto said:

let's be honest are we really expecting them to fix every ability that needs fix and rework the augments that originally offered that fix ?

I already addressed this.  No, it's not likely, but at least DE hasn't said 'no'.  

I do have some hope of it happening.  It wasn't long ago I thought DE would never address shieldgating or innate radar. 

Also it helps that my list of frames that should have one or more augment functions built in is pretty small.  I'm not even sure about Iron Shrapnel now,  since Rhino is benefitting from Overguard gating and improved shieldgating.

[(PSN)Unstar]

51 minutes ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

2 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

The fact that a handful of Augments aren't strong enough to justify using doesn't mean that all Augments need a free slot; rather, it means that the underpowered Augments need buffs so that they can compete with normal mods to be best-in-slot, the way that the good Augments already do.

The result of your suggestion would be blanket power-creep without actually addressing the fundamental issue, increasing the power disparity between Warframes with strong Augments and Warframes with weak Augments.  Because suddenly every build that already had a strong Augment as best-in-slot now gets an additional normal mod slot, while every build that couldn't justify using a weak Augment instead gets a paltry slot for a weak Augment.  The strong get significantly stronger, and the weak get only mildy stronger.  It's a bad idea.

Why does this give me the vibe that this isn't an argument against a dedicated augment slot and more an argument about weak augments instead?

With respect, it probably feels that way because I made a solid argument against the stance you currently hold, so your subconscious human instinct (one that we all share) is to find an excuse to reject the argument outright so that you don't have to honestly engage with it.  And to be clear, no shade, intended; this is something that happens to all of us, myself included, and we could all use a friendly reminder now and then to bring conscious awareness to such instincts when they're keeping us from being the fair and kind people we strive to be.

 

[Raarsi]

I'm not opposed to an augment slot, but I'd much rather see it come exclusively from the helminth to make sure that no one's happy.

[The_Royal_Elf_Mika]

quite a few frames need augments put into their base abilities, when half your build is augments, just because you want your abilities to actually be usable, kinda makes it hard to do a viable build, main reason why i am used to not modding for survivability, because id rather min-max my abilities instead, since they are the main reason to even play the frame in the first place.

 

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

This topic again?  

Didn't they literally just say no to this for the umpteenth time recently?

[DstroyR_Prime]

I think there is can be only one compromise solution - just to make all augments friendly to exilus slots. Well, another idea looks not much better, but... If arcane slot consuming by arcane helmet, why we cant use this mechanic as opportunity for augmentation? For example, if you strictly need 1 augment in your build, but you cant find place for it in usual mod-space, you can use exilus slot. But if you need more than 2 augments, you must put additional of them in arcane slots. For unlock this option, exilus slot must be opened and currently consumed by augment, i guess. So, there is no problem with frames without augmentations, even if you have infused ability which needs augment. Cant find place for augments in usual mod-slots -then, try to find it in exilus or arcane slots. It`ll increase deep of possibile warframe-tuning without adding any what doesn`t exist now.
For example, Mag with all 4 augments: 1 common slot+1 exilus+ both arcane slots reserved for augments. Mag with 2 augments - 1 common slot + 1 exilus. If default pro-augmentation slots (1 common+exilus) not consumed by augments, option to put augments into arcane slots just must be not available. Also, without unlocked exilus slot you cant use more than 1 augment by any way, it`ll just be as kinda cap.

Edited November 5, 2023 by DstroyR_Prime
Bad english XD

[(PSN)robotwars7]

augments as a whole need a huge balance pass across the board, and if a slot were to be made, a LOT of Augments need a serious buff for them to even be considered worth trying, let alone "essential".

personally I'm hanging back on asking for this until The First Descendant releases, because as well as having a modding system that's basically a carbon-copy of warframe's, they actually have a dedicated augment slot on their characters - and I can tell you now once the game does release, you're gonna be seeing a lot more "why no augment slot in warframe?" threads by people who will be playing both games. I didn't think it made a whole lot of difference in the Beta, but it was only a Beta..

[(PSN)Pablogamer585]

We don't need an augment slot, but I'd like it. We also don't need 2 arcane slots, or 5 archon shards if you reaaally think about it...
Anyway, something I do not agree with;

hace 4 horas, Waeleto dijo:

I'll prove it to you,
garuda, gyre, sevagoth, atlas, mirage, excalibur, frost, styanax, equinox, trinity, hildryn, khora, mag, nekros, oberon, rhino, volt and the list goes on
just because you listed the top tier warframes that could go into the sp with auto install and do great doesn't mean your argument is correct, the warframes i listed will ALWAYS have at least one augment in every build 

Garuda, Sevagoth, Mirage, Excalibur, Frost, Styanax, Equinox, Trinity, Hildryn, Khora, Mag, Rhino and Volt don't need augments at all to be perfectly working frames.

In some cases, instead of an augment what they need is a helminth ability to replace a part of their kit that is just not cutting it, to help the rest of it :P
That's what happens with Sevagoth's Reap & Sow combo, you need a defence strip to make it work.

Do some augments do things that are so basic that they should be part of the ability by default? Completely!
This is where Mag's Pull & Crush sit for me, Pull is too simple, why do I need an augment to pull in loot when Airbust can do that by default?
Crush is button press to do nothing at high levels by default besides restoring shields, but I have Polarize for that, why not make it work like with the augment and call it a day?
^{And for the one dude who will mention that you can get overshields with Crush but not Polarize, yes, I know, stills not enough.}

Now... Gyre, Atlas and Nekros?
Almost always have one augment into their builds, which is meant to fix a problem of the frame.
While yes, Gyre "doesn't need" Cathode Current, the implementation of the augment saves the player from having to build her towards duration and also makes it so they spend less energy over time by having to cast Rotorswell.
Same can be said for Rubble Heap or Despoil, you "don't need them", but the frames feel much better with them, though honestly with as many sources of energy as there are right now, Despoil can really be removed from the list of "essential augments".
And then there's Oberon, which doesn't really need augments as none of them do anything that useful, but has major issues with is kit.

__________

So, I just got an idea as of typing this, what if we made "augment slots" be a bit similar to rivens, be limited?

If we allow all warframes to have an augment slot, the top frames will just have free room to be better for no apparent reason, which is the concern many here have, and that is extremely true, but for bad frames or those that aren't quite meta, it'd be a "help" that perhaps is unjustified because;
A) The augments could be reworked to be better.
B) The frame could be reworked to be better so that it is not necessary.
C) The frame is fine without them, they're purely optional. (Most common case)

As pointed out by a Tenno already, Hydroid's rework sort of did this with Tempest Barrage now dealing corrosive which pairs perfectly with the passive, so Viral Tempest is a + for either status spreading or making DPS Tempest Barrage, but it's purely optional, therefore, if there was an augment slot, you'd just add it for free since Hydroid now can slot in a few augments thanks to being overall better.

That is an important remark there; depending of how good a frame is, augments becomes more or less optional.

So here's what could be a fair middle ground for those of us who'd like augment slots, and those who are concerned about them breaking the balance even further;
What about having an adapter that lets us unlock 2 augment slots (max) per frame based on usage rate or popularity, and you can only have a limited amount of them?
Instead of having a riven disposition of 1-5, we'd have an "x" disposition of 0-2, so frames that are widely used get 0 augment slot available, and those that aren't used but as much, 2 at max. Of course, this should be something that isn't easy to obtain, as it is meant for min-maxxing just like Archon Shards, thereby be installed and uninstalled in a manner and with a cost, similar to them.

This could make it so widely used frames like Revenant (I'm sick of seeing Revenants :|), Wisp among others, are kept in check and their builds can only have augments by sacrificing a regular mod slot, but that others, like Oberon or Equinox, get to experiment a bit more without having their tightly-packed builds (as) harmed.
If a rework or certain changes happen that help the frames, like the recent shield gating changes for Equinox, DE could tweak the disposition, and if reduced return one of these adapters to the player.

It's far from a perfect concept, but I think it's neat & fair.
At least, fairer than giving everyone a free augment slot.

So yes to augments slots, no to giving them away equally, but equitably.

[Sojufueled]

I think a good augment is a fair trade for a warframe slot, but I do think there are a good half dozen or more augments that ought to he rolled into the core functionality of their skill. For instance, the Null Star augment that lets you cast it as an attack would probably be a core function if Nova was designed today.

[0_The_F00l]

I would much rather they made some of the augments part of the base ability.

Not all , but a very selective list.

[Turritopsis_Dohrnii]

I'm an MR 6 Pre-Quills Hydroid only player that can function in level 150+ enemy Defense, Survival, Railjack, Disruption, Steel Path (When I had access to that) ect. content with no access to Rivens, Shards, Focus abilities, and other caveats Pre and Post Hydroid rework. We really don't need an augment slot.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Turritopsis_Dohrnii

[Famecans]

augment slot = new free mod slot 🤷‍♂️

[Karyst]

19 hours ago, Waeleto said:

I know that DE said no before but we REALLY need an augment slot and i'm tired of pretending that we don't
So many warframes will ALWAYS have at least one augment in their build which they will almost not function without or are very bad without it and tbh an augment slot is a win win situation for EVERYONE, we get an extra slot to optimize our builds even more and DE gets 20 platinum per warframe 

We need two augment slots and one more Warframe arcane slot

[Karyst]

20 minutes ago, Karyst said:

We need two augment slots and one more Warframe arcane slot

And while we are at it, Warframe rivens