Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[(PSN)teacup775]

It’s a nice change. It looks like attack speed is higher.

 

let’s just say the dopple gangers kill at the same rate as now, but the opt in mechanism means ash controls the pace of slaughter.

you could make rapid sucession consume more energy. you could make it charge teleport in some new way. a melee character like him should be able to kill any boss with his teleport in some fashion. Zer0 still stands out as one of the best melee designs because timing and many must fall.

“Leaves falling from trees / Snow drifting onto the ground / Life leaving your corpse.”

“The true world revealed / Weaknesses now known to me / Time to go to work.”

the other thing about ash, i feel like he’s limited to a tiny set of daggers for the most melee carnage. expanding options to nikana, nami skila, and dual daggers would be nice.

[Urlan]

I am hopeful that an Ash rework could give Ash some more purpose.

[TonnoTuna]

Personally speaking, I think that his first ability is very poor, maybe you force a Bleed DoT, but it has the same problem of Psychic Bolts: you have almost no control. A suggestion to improve it is increase the Shuriken count by 1 and making it affected by Ability Strength, while it's really hard to reach 1 shuriken (If ever possible, I don't know how rounding works there) you stimulate Strength builds, and also make Seeking Shuriken a bit more appealing (Especially if you consider the fact that Sonic Fracture is thousand times better, a short-ranged cone is way better than two rng shurikens).

Edited January 31, 2018 by TonnoTuna
Whopsie

[Pendragon1951]

I think part of the problem with BS is you have to select your targets which I think takes too much time to do, there is a weapon in The Division called a Seeker Mine and what it does it splits automatically into multiple mines and targets multiple enemies without any targeting from the player all that is required is that the enemies be within range of the seeker mines. If BS could work like this I think it would be more effective and practical.

[ArchangelusAlpharius]

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We are taking a look at Ash, specifically his Bladestorm - check out some WIP gameplay here:
 

 

@[DE]Rebecca Does it have to be teleport to opt in though? Because some of us enjoy using fatal teleport, and it would be a shame not to be able to send your clone in to kill grunts while you personally slit the throat of that bombard over there.

Edited January 31, 2018 by ArchangelusAlpharius

[Tain_OSkoom]

All I ever wanted from Ash was for Smoke Shadow to scale with ability range, so he could have some form of team utility.

I'm probably alone in this.

[Mover-NeRo]

I only wish there could be way to spawn more shadows. Either with power str. or simply by number of marked targets..maybe : number of marked targets / 2.

Since the time until the 4th abbility end is just too much.

Edited January 31, 2018 by Mover-NeRo

[Railgun]

1 minute ago, Tain_OSkoom said:

All I ever wanted from Ash was for Smoke Shadow to scale with ability range, so he could have some form of team utility.

I'm probably alone in this.

Nah, I really want this too

[(PSN)TheHypothes]

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We are taking a look at Ash, specifically his Bladestorm - check out some WIP gameplay here:
 

 

I wish you guys would do this more often with reworks. Give us an advanced look at what you're looking at doing so we can give more feedback.

 

Atlas is one of my co-mains and I really wish I knew what to expect, and would like the opportunity to give feedback before it's too close to official implementation.

[Nazrethim]

@[DE]Rebecca Couple of questions:

+How does it avoid the "world on bladestorm" path that was deemed too powerful initially?

+How does it make it good for dealing with crowds beyond Ash being completely unengaged from it and free to shoot guns and use melee that can actually do the job?

+Will the broken cost be adressed?

+Will the multimark aspect be phased out since it serves no good purpose?

+Does this eliminate redundancy with his other abilities?

+Does this add some synergy with his other abilities? (reduced cost on invi isn't synergy, it's dependency, specially if the broken cost isn't adressed)

+How about Conclave? Will BS be made useful? Will Shuriken be?

+What about Shuriken, Smoke Screen and Teleport? Any QoL changes for those too? (examples: adding a third non-tracking shuriken, lingering smoke for smoke shadow, automatic finisher by default and not locked to an augment).

 

I think  you misunderstood the problems with the ability and the frame. You should meditate on what are the actual problems of the ability and, if needed, alter the design, in small or big part, to adress them. You paid attention to those who didn't understand what needed to be done last time, please don't do it again. Marking Mode Target-by-Target was pointed out was going to be bad by savvy players right off the bat, when it was a WIP still. They weren't wrong, yet you ignored them at the time.

To me, this looks like what Ash Revisited was, another poorly thought out bandaid made to shut up players. That would be the wrong motive for changing a frame. It was the wrong motive with the first revisit (it's very obvious by now the revisit was a straight nerf).

I don't want to be abrasive, I don't want to be the annoying smartars who "thinks he knows too much", I don't want to argue endlessly with fellow players because I spot a design flaw and they deny it. Please consider these words.

And thank you for breaking the year long silence. It's a relief to know you aren't actively ignoring us.

[DarthBane1]

I like it. Much better. I do agree with everyone though, Marking needs a bit of help. It's kind of lacking because you have to be very precise. 

[TVictorian]

This is neat, but doesn't really address the problems with Bladestorm. Namely the targeting mechanic that makes it so Ash can't compete with any sort of AoE frames that don't need line of sight and who can kill multiple people all at the same time, not one at a time(though this second point can almost be fixed by stacking attack speed).

 

Adding a hydroid-style mechanic where it's charged by holding the button down and marking everyone within an expanding radius would bring it to the same power level as old Ash, without the brokenness of infinite bladestorm as more enemies entered the radius.

[ENGINEEEEER]

This is great. Please don't forget about Volt and Gara. 

[A-Midnight-Shanking]

Don't play much Ash, but what about taking the marking system and making it a passive type of ability that plays with and augments the function of his other abilities?

 

Could do something like making melee attacks and aiming at enemies mark targets. (Bladestorm still having an auto target feature).

Shurikens could gain a damage bonus against marked targets, Smoke screen could cause a damage amp against marked targets in the radius,

Teleport could have a reduced cost on marked targets, (applies before Fatal Teleport Refund), and the 4 is whatever you've got planned.

Edited January 31, 2018 by A-Midnight-Shanking
added in quick examples on how the marking could function as a passive

[PsiWarp]

Oh nice change. Now I won't be disoriented and accidentally die when Blade Storm ends as my Smoke Screen does too!

Still, can't help but feel it's Ash on Fire, but as long as other players can kill marked enemies when the clones are attacking (not the invulnerable annoyance again), then that's alright with me.

[Yperkeimenos]

One of the things that made Bladestorm clunky and slow is the marking mechanic and the intermediate cinematic. The new changes take care of the attack cinematic but what about marking. Is there any way to make it work faster? Maybe make it so that when activated it'll mark all enemies in a cone in front of Ash, that can be increased in both distance and angle with range mods. That way you'll still need to mark your enemies however it'll take less time than marking each one individually.

[Somi_xD]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Nazrethim:

-snip-

You know, the part "Teleport into Bladestorm" goes into the direction of making bladestorm a part of Teleport :D
But basically i agree with you.
I am very grateful, to see that DE still cares for Ash.
I am happy, to see that they will now solve the pre-revisit problem.
But we will still have the huge cost, and the clunky marking system (like you say).

About shuriken: (the most simple solution)
- Shuriken should add to the melee combo counter
- Shuriken should be affected by the dmg multiplier from the combo counter
- Adding the Shuriken augment, removes the dmg multi from shuriken (this would balance out the ability - either normal shurikens with dmg multi, or armor stripping shuriken)

About smoke screen:
- The smoke cloud that stays temporary after using the ability

[VisionAndVoice]

Not impressed.

This makes the ability look bland and generic, depriving it of the one thing that made it stand out - the coolness factor. And the fact that the only way to get it back is to manually opt-in makes it sound clunky. Will need to know the exact mechanics before I can make my final judgment, but so far - looks like a pointless and actually harmful change.

[Hypernaut1]

I really hope this isn't just Ash WoF. A toggle it and forget it move. 

I'm hoping it works like this 

1. Mark enemies

2. Unleash clone bladestorm

3. Opt in

And not

1. Toggle mark

2. Walk around while clones stab enemies doing less damage.

3. Leave it on as long as you get energy

It would be too dumbed down. I hope it doesn't mean they have to Nerf the damage in exchange for being able to walk around.

Edited January 31, 2018 by Hypernaut1

[Tendou_Souji]

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We are taking a look at Ash, specifically his Bladestorm - check out some WIP gameplay here:
 

 

As nice as this QoL Ash change is, I'm much more interested in the Zephyr (but mostly) Atlas changes, care to share some details?

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

14 minutes ago, VisionAndVoice said:

Not impressed.

This makes the ability look bland and generic, depriving it of the one thing that made it stand out - the coolness factor. And the fact that the only way to get it back is to manually opt-in makes it sound clunky. Will need to know the exact mechanics before I can make my final judgment, but so far - looks like a pointless and actually harmful change.

You do know that you can choose to join in the killing right?

[Yperkeimenos]

2 minutes ago, Tendou_Souji said:

As nice as this QoL Ash change is, I'm much more interested in the Zephyr (but mostly) Atlas changes, care to share some details?

It's an Ash feedback thread, references to other frames are out of place. Perhaps post them in or start a Zephyr or Atlas thread.

[blaes]

That seems pretty nice, takes care of one of the biggest problems bladestorm had. That's clearly a step in the right direction, let's not stop in the middle of the journey.

 

To those who are afraid of it turning in a WoF-like : from the video footage, it's not the case : you need to activate the ability, mark enemies, then press the button again to unleash the clones. Pretty much same modus operandi as currently, except that you don't join the cinematic if you don't opt-in by using teleport.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb SanderRandorm123:

as player from closed beta i have emotional relationship with all frames, how funny and cringy it sounds, why is that dumb to wishing a frame being useful mostly than right now, Ash is more ninja designed than any frame in game really, but his BS the most slow and boring thing, even being a pool as Hydroid is more fascinating than trying get kills with BS. Im not crying over old 4th ability, it was boring too, but this one is complete usless, we have a lot weaponds and frames that killing high lvl faster, 

Ya know, the basic concept was his literall signiture move since his very beginning so believe it or not but Ash isn't ninja themed but actually got his own little theme going for him.

You're definitly not crying over Old BS while in reality you do...probably not over the design but really just bout how it played, since it's far from slow or boring when you actually go around building for it and implementing it into gameplay with those fast killing weapons...why Bladestorm an entire map when melee can do that just fine? More the gun type of person? His kit allows that too... Can you really consider a frame/ability slow when it provides you with the possibility to not having to bother finishing all enemys that cross your path one, by one, by one, by one...with an ability that's able to finish everything that survives in literall seconds due to it's high, scaling finisher damage output?...

It's faster, or like, makes him faster to play then lets say a Valkyr, who's missing the transition from melee to range, a Chroma, who provides savage numbers but needs build-up and heavy input, Atlas, who's missing the..punch in his kit except for the actuall punch....quite literally any weapon user with this one frickin ability that highlights you enemys and finishes the job and thus spares you a time-consuming chase with the "time you waste"..

 

Edited January 31, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[BL4CKN0ISE]

@[DE]Rebecca

The changes to Blade Storm sound pretty nice, but can you guys consider allowing us to use Relentless Combination with it? Blade Storm is still a powerful ability, but not like Excalibur's Exalted Blade or even Ivara's Artemis Bow for example. For exalted weapons we're allowed to use most of the mods that fit the weapon type. Ash relies on the Combo counter and slash procs. Why are we not allowed to use Relentless Combination when it makes perfect sense for the way Blade Storm works? We don't need the damage mods, but all the combo related mods should work. Obviously not the Acolyte combo mods, but we can already use Body Count and Blood Rush. Please let us use Relentless Combination. I don't think it would make it too OP. I hope you guys will at least try it out.

Also, I think Ash's first ability is great, but only with the Seeking Shuriken Augment. It seems like it would make sense if you let us use some Secondary mods with it. Or maybe it would only link when carrying thrown secondary weapons like Despair or Spira Prime, etc. 

Anyways, thank you DE!

Edited January 31, 2018 by BL4CKN0ISE