Revenant Themed Warframe "Vlad" Feedback and Discussion

[KubrowTamer]

21 minutes ago, Madway7 said:

Vlad feedback post devstream 113

Better, but still has issues. Mainly with his 1 and 3. 

I'll just repeat the issue I have with them.

"The affliction in general is problematic. It won't work well in anything other than interception and maybe mobile defense. In general you'll have issues as it relies on allies not killing afflicted targets (unless you play solo). "

His 2 still good and his 4 is much improved assuming the numbers and scaling is there to back up this "massive damage" feel.

His 3 I am baffled about. Mainly because he has innate lifesteal, which while an amazing passive makes his 3 kinda about as useful as Hydroids 2, but at a higher energy cost and prob won't get you as far.

Assuming it restores shields an additional passive I thought up might make it useful.

Damage reduction to his shields.

Hope you guys consider that.

 

As for the "pillars" I don't see them being even close to as threatening as what the Gantulyst does. If you really want to go with that effect just make it an aoe bomb that detonates after a few seconds cause I don't see many enemies dying cause they walked over where one of their friends died.

 

TL;DR Like the new 4, still don't like affliction. 2 is great, 1 and 3 should be changed/improved.

 

 

What if you mixed his original ult with the eidolons star fall attack as a new 3? You would launch the starfall and it wouldn't do a lot of dmg but enemies the projectiles hit would be stunned and opened up to finishers. Stunned enemies explode on death releasing a volley of bouncing lasers.

"like tetra with its augment"

Edited July 21, 2018 by KubrowTamer

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

23 minutes ago, Omega-Shadowblade said:

Nyx is going to be getting a rework the devs have already mentioned this, they know her powers are outdated. We'll see if they start stepping on eachother's toes when that time comes.

Also the concept of minions isn't exactly unique to nyx anyways. Nekros already was stepping on her toes when he released.

Nekros, with his ultimate, has to kill enemies and he then resurrects them as undead minions. So it's Necromancy, not mind control.

 

Nyx, with her first, has to target a single enemy in order to mind control it. 

Revenant, with his first, has to target a single enemy in order to mind control it. Revenant is not limited to a single enemy; Revenant is not a psychic Warframe. That's my issue

[Omega-Shadowblade]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Nekros, with his ultimate, has to kill enemies and he then resurrects them as undead minions. So it's Necromancy, not mind control.

 

Nyx, with her first, has to target a single enemy in order to mind control it. 

Revenant, with his first, has to target a single enemy in order to mind control it. Revenant is not limited to a single enemy; Revenant is not a psychic Warframe. That's my issue

He's a vampire frame. Haven't you ever heard of vampire thralls?

And again, I reiterate. Nyx is planned to be reworked. Her 1st is definitely one of the abilities most in need.

Also minions are minions in the end regardless of method of getting them.

[Dolerhyde]

There's a few things to consider with Revenant's 'turn' ability.  The first is that we have no indication that the enemies get any sort of damage boost, and enemy EHP scales way faster than their damage, which means that unlike Nyx Mind Control or Nekros summon, the charmed enemies are likely to be just as they were when they were turned.  The second is that from the Devstream video, the thralls can be hit by friendly fire, which means that single Equinox maim can explode your little army.  

 

My sense is that while thematically it is close to Nyx and Nekros, it is mostly just a fun twist on area CC like Terrify or pocket sand.  At low levels, turned enemies can do decent damage, but at higher levels, it will just be a spreading CC.  I think that is a cool take on a CC skill over something like Vauban concuss grenade, which does almost the same thing (area enemy rad proc to CC them).

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

I love the idea that the first ability spreadsfrom target to target like a zombie plague but it needs more to, alter those inflicted something more so it doesn't feel like a slow activating chaos. 

Second ability is charged based armor which is definitely different but not sure how it will work out, depends on how many charges we get

Third is werid for me. I feel like this conflicts with theme. He's supposed to be based on the eidolons but also have kit centered on lifesteal. Maybe change the ability to be more eidolon like. Instead of turning into fog he does a pulse like when the eidolon is injured, with every enemy hit by the pulse he gains health and shields.

Four looks really fun to become  a disco ball of death but i kinda want to have a singular laser shoot out of his arm that we can freely aim.

[Myscho]

Lazors, lazors everywhere

[(PSN)Zelgorath]

I know DE has done extensive work on Vlad's power kit. I don't expect them to see this and have a light flicker on over their heads where they say, "oh, why didn't I think of that".

A vampire frame is interesting, but Vlad doesn't seem much like a Vampyr to me, much less an Eidolon.

Anyway, this is how I would make an Eidolon Frame

Frame Concept Name: Qliphoth

Concept: Embodiment of the powers of Tridolon; Terry, Garry, and Harry

Passive: Enemies felled by any of Qliphoth's abilities have a 10% chance to spawn an allied Vomvalyst that protects you with it's life.

Power One: Pulse

Qliphoth fires a tactical energy weapon (DMG is equal IPS). Cannot be cast in mid-air or while reloading.

A. Tap the ability to release a low recoil burst fire horizontal spread that follows your targeting recticule.

Damage affected by power strength. Length of shot affected by duration. Activation range affected by range. Cost affected by duration and efficiency. High chance of knockdown.

B. Charge shot to fire and orb into the air that upon reaching maximum charge, releases homing projectiles.

Damage affected by power strength. Charge rate affected by duration. Homing range affected by range. Cost affected by duration and efficiency. High chance of knockdown.

Power Two: Enrage

Qliphoth raises his leg and stomps channeling the powers of the void. An energy wave is released across the environment knocking down each for that come in contact with it. Qliphoth is refunded a flat percentage of energy for each enemy affected, as well as receives a flat percentage power increase for each affected enemy. Cannot be cast in mid-air or while reloading.

Damage affected by power strength. Travel speed affected by duration (shorter duration, faster travel speed). Range affected by range. Cost affected by efficiency. Forced knockdown.

Power bonus not affected by mods and is discharged on next ability cast.

Decreased efficiency means the ability costs more to cast so more energy per affected enemy will be refunded.

Power Three: Intimidate

Qliphoth releases a challenging shout taunting all enemies within range. Damage to health received releases AoE of void damage ragdolling enemies and giving them all status effects currently on Qliphoth. Cannot be cast in mid-air or while reloading.

Any allied vomvalysts present will link to Qliphoth taking the damage instead (Qliphoth keeps the statuses). Should one receive enough damage to fall, it will take an ethereal form and dash at the nearest foe before detonating in a heavy radiation AoE.

Damage of void AoE affected by power strength. Duration of the ability affectedby duration. Distance affected by range. Cost efficiency. 100% chance of afflicting statuses. Vomvalysts abilities are not affected by mods.

Power Four: Evolution

Qliphoth taps into Eidolon adaptability and protects himself in a husk like orb, similar to the Gantulyst's. While in this orb, all damage from sources outside the orb is negated, and Qliphoth has all previous status effects removed from him. Cannot be cast in mid-air or while reloading. Movement speed is decreased by half. Sprinting, jumping and parkour are disabled while the husk is active.

Ability is affected by range, duration, and efficiency. Husk is immune to damage and is not affected by nullification bubbles or auras. Enemies within the Husk can still harm Qliphoth.

All other abilities are now augmented:

1. Pulse now launches a ball of light into the air that produces multiple rays of energy that seek enemy positions as it rotates. Places the ray has touched erupt with blast damage.

2. The shockwave generated by Enrage now causes pillars of void energy to erupt from beneath surviving foes who were affected by the wave.

3. Intimidate now generates AoE pulses from outside the husk that knockback standing enemies and ragdolls prone enemies. Enemies are afflicted with random status effects. Additionally, any allied vomvalysts are protected from damage while connected to the husk like a vomvalyst bloom.

Qliphoth's passive is also augmented as now whenever an enemy felled by one of his augmented abilities has a 3% chance to spawn a Battalyst for melee type enemies, and a Conculyst for ranged enemies.

Just my idea. Feedback is appreciated.

[NeithanDiniem]

He isnt that much of an eidolon frame by design. He is a frame that has absorbed Sentient energy from the plains, he isn't designed to have those powers, they evolved.

Passive is a bit over the top considering just how many enemies one can kill in this game. Would need a limited number of spawns to be viable.

First ability has issues with height of tiles, so something would need to be adjusted there.

Second and Third ability are a bit of an oddity if you are channeling specifically a void energy element attack for a sentient-based frame. Probably a bit of wording but the effects are fine.

Fourth ability feels a bit odd that it cant be used in the air if you are effectively going into a bubble. since it can be used while moving, not being able to trigger it while airborn feels off to me. Third ability looks to be a short enough ability I dont feel either way about that.

First augment is a bit close to Mirage's ultimate Id say

Third augment mentions the fourth ability's husk so it is a bit confusing.

Personally I'd remove the passive augment there, that one is a biiiit much. the low chance makes it unreliable, but when it spawns in that is a very powerful summon. Personally, spawning known sentient enemy types feels odd to me, instead of variants unique to the frame (rather like how the Helminth Kubrow is a unique model for an infested enemy).

[Dolerhyde]

As near as I can tell, this is going to be a mash-up frame like Khora, where multiple themes / visuals coalesce into a single frame.  Revenant is clearly sentient / Eidolon visually themed, and with the rework shown today, at least part of his kit is Eidolon flavored.  His 2 and his 4 are clearly nods to the Eidolon.  But like Khora (beastmaster / spider queen / BDSM) that theme is 'mixed' with the vampire with the thrall stuff and the cloud shifting and life draining.  

While cool, my main gripe is that I am hopeful that they will return to a warframe release cadence like they did 2+ years ago, and tying multiple themes into a single frame when each theme could be an entire kit will limit their creativity down the road.  

As for your suggested rework, I agree with the above poster that the passive is probably too strong.  The other abilities would possibly be problematic in any sort of cramped tileset, though I am sure something could be tweaked to make it work better there. 

[DjKaplis]

My feedback - the frame isn't even released yet and people are already requesting changes. That is ridiculous.

Edited July 21, 2018 by DjKaplis

[Tenno.Rukasu]

It's better we wait for DE final model.

[Birdframe_Prime]

I'll give you a hint, my friend; This is probably leading up to more reworks. If Revenant is getting this, imagine what they might add to Nyx as a buff instead ^^

[Madway7]

8 hours ago, KubrowTamer said:

What if you mixed his original ult with the eidolons star fall attack as a new 3? You would launch the starfall and it wouldn't do a lot of dmg but enemies the projectiles hit would be stunned and opened up to finishers. Stunned enemies explode on death releasing a volley of bouncing lasers.

"like tetra with its augment"

That sounds like it would make it much better.

Also it could have a small synergy with his 2 and restore charges based on how many enemies are hit.

[ZodiacShinryu]

Not Eidolon enough? We have only 1 eidolon class (currently) and 3 variants thereof that all behave fairly similarly its not like there is a great surplus to pull from. Revenant has 3 eidolon effects now compared to his initial reveal (of one). His 2nd is a power that negates damage (like eidolons), his 4th is basically the eidolon arm canon attack (like Teralyst), and his 1st has an added effect of "laser trap" (like Gantulyst) when thralls die. Based on this devstream, his 4th animation (the spinning) is a "placeholder". They said it was slowed down Inaros Sandstorm but I suppose they could keep it to a degree if they wanted. They talked about the concept of the "laser trap" on his 1 as the pillar of light/energy coming out of the ground even though it wasn't rigged the same way. The effect looked fairly unique already but it could be a place holder too or touched up more. His 3rd mist dash is the most off putting of the them for Eidolon (maybe not so much for the Vampire theme) though they could touch that up too and add lightning/storm effects (like Hydrolyst) and then you have a full kit complimenting the 3 "-lyst" variants.

I will say with the reveal of "Garuda" they should've just shifted the whole vampire them to her (she has a bat-like appearance though they say bird/avian) and maybe consolidate his 1 and 3 a bit more with like sentry pets (vomvalysts) or other Hydrolyst effects. Though that I am particularly more concerned about is that he stomps all over Nekros' Shadows with his 1.

[peterc3]

The Revenant frame is getting up to 20 thralls and Valkyr has literally none. How is this fair????

[(PSN)Zelgorath]

The feedback is appreciated.

As I said, I am not expecting DE to even see this, let alone make these changes, as Vald's power kit is far into development. 

Less than a replacement for Vlad's power set, conceptually, how does this feel as an Eidolon themed frame?

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

1 hour ago, peterc3 said:

The Revenant frame is getting up to 20 thralls and Valkyr has literally none. How is this fair????

What?

[squirrel_killer-]

We are at the point where mechanically, there isn't much left to do that won't occasionally lead to frames crossing over with others, or possibly even producing frames that are very hybridized of another two frames. Vlad is just the beginning of this, but we will likely see more like this as time goes on. I am personally glad to see a frame that controls enemies that actually does it in a why I care about. As she stands I look at Nyx as mastery fodder, while Vlad I found actually enjoyable looking to play. I like the idea of turning enemies against each other and using puppets, but not the way Nyx does it. This is important.

We long passed the point where we can expect every frame to have zero overlap. Consider Vlad a different take on the mechanical themes of Nyx. A reshuffle of that idea. Overlap is good, it means we will have more variety in how to do things and each frames variant on a concept will allow it to do the thing in a way suited best for a different set of conditions.

Think of it this way:

Vlad could turn out to be the defensive powerhouse of enthralling frames, while someone like Nyx could be the offensive powerhouse of enthralling frames. Each will have their niche and each will have value. You will want to have both, but for different situations.

As an example of how this could go, and if I had my way it would go:

Start by making it so Nyx controls a single enemy and makes them a badass, allow her to project her powers through both herself and her enthralled minion, make the augment the default status of this ability and change it to something else, increase their armour and otherwise just creates one very powerful minion. Like the type of powerful where it actually feels like a 5th member of the squad and is capable of killing other enemies (the current weakness of Nyx and Nekros being enemies are bad at killing each other) and otherwise just pulling over one enemy and making them a powerful ally.

Vlad on the other hand could be about numbers, he has a mass of lemmings. They aren't worth much, they get shredded by enemies, and they only are really a danger to the enemy through weight of numbers. He would constantly be gaining and losing his minions as they die and spread their affliction as the fight goes on, but those under his control would not gain anything that makes them stronger or really all that worth having. His kit is very clear here. Vlad's minions live to die. Their death provides traps, heals him, and otherwise prove that for Vlad his minions are worth more dead than they were for their brief passing lives of servitude.

Nekros fills a nice niche as is, he doesn't really use his minions as a way to hurt the enemy they act more a way to draw fire and to act as meat shields, and he fills this very well already. His augment merely reinforces this role, doesn't change it to suit it. Nekros doesn't need more than a half dozen or so minions to draw fire, which is exactly what he has. Well actually he has 7 minions but that is only one more than a half dozen. Point being Nekros has meatshields more than controlled minions, and with the new dynamic Vlad would bring this wouldn't really change.

 

Ultimately the issue with all of this is not that Vlad is stepping on Nyx's toes, it is Nyx's 1 needs a little bit of love to create the proposed dynamic and interplay. Nyx is due for a rework, and if done correctly it could make Nyx a queen of psychic wrath like she should be.

[NeithanDiniem]

Frames can in fact step on each other's toes. There is a limit on just how unique you can make things because basic concepts have to be shareable between them. Summoning is a basic concept, and this falls under that. Its no different than AoE defensive skills, Damage dealing skills, Buff skills, etc. They are basic ideas and you really cannot expect DE lock an entire basic concept to one frame. Thats equivalent to demanding every frame with an Exalted weapon be changed because Excaliboy is having his toes stepped on.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

20 hours ago, Tenno.Rukasu said:

It's better we wait for DE final model.

I concur.

 

@(PS4)Zelgorath

I think DE could have been implemented other Sentient mechanics a little better:

2nd Ability could have been adapative resistance mimicking Battalyst, Conculyst, Shadow Stalker, Mimics (Not sure why Oculysts are just immune to all damage including Void)*

3rd Ability that is Mist/Could Shield&Health Regen could have been etheral state from Vomvalysts although that might be too similar to Wukong Defy.

Those would wouldn't to him to Terry,Garry, and Harry; but those changes would alter current abilities to be have a more 'Sentient flavor'

 

[Aeon94]

DE, can you add seeking explosive projectiles to Revenant's ult? As alt fire perhaps ? That'd make him more Eidolon like. 

Also is there a chance for Mist ability visuals to be similar to Vomvalysts' ethereal form ? 

[Azvalk]

Hi ^^

I've heard several times that he is WIP, and that's why I come to propose my ideas for Revenant.
I think I can visualize what he will be when he is finished without suggestions, and even if he seems great in any case, I would like so much that this warframe receive a little special treatment..

So here are my suggestions, which I think are very close to his current state, but would allow much more versatility.
I understood that a notion of "Build up" was desired (devstream 112), and so I made sure that the power synergizes in this direction.
Also, it would be a good idea to much more involve his left arm, and the energy flame he possesses, in the animation of his powers.
I propose abilities that are used in 2 ways each.
If you simply press the key, or if you hold it.
It would be totally viable to use only one version, but the other version is the one for the style, the power, and to better respond to the situation.

So..
The 1:
- If the key is pressed: Same effect as currently, but it would be an very quick projectile of energy, from his left arm.
Optionnal: Single target, but with a 1m zone effect, useful to affect very close targets in a corridors or  a "spawn room"
- If the key is held: it will be a larger projectile, like a wave, in the way of the chains of Harrow but quicker, maybe with a visual close to vombalyst's charge.
The energy consumption would be greater, and this would allow to affect more target in one shot.

The 2:
- If the key is pressed: the idea of invulnerability charges that cause a stunning that makes the 1 free is perfect.
The appearance of the armor feels cool, although, on the left shoulder it seemed to me just a little poorly integrated, (because the shoulder is smooth unlike the back has relief.) WIP ? ^^
- If the key is held: Revenant consumes energy in the manner of Harrow's 3 to increase a counter. The result of this counter will be a temporary armor gain, which will take effect when all his invulnerability charges have been used.
It is a way of not being vulnerable to the danger waiting for us when our charges are used. For some players it will maybe be a moment for accept damage with "rage" or "hunter's adrenaline"

The 3: The texture seemed flat to me .. I've heard Geoff say "very Wip" when this was showed ^^
- If the key is pressed: it can stay as it is.
- If the key is held: Energy consumption depending on the distance traveled, controllable as the Wukong's cloud. So, more "escape mode"
No invulnerability but resistance to any damage of xx%
It would be ideal if he could also cross lasers without triggering an alarm. (vampire feeling)
With this, he will touch more enemies, scattered, and have some vampire charisma ^^

The 4: I am very happy with the new version, and it is pretty close to what I had imagined the first time..
This said, what I have to propose is fundamental for the synergy of powers and the concept of "build up".
- If the key is pressed: Revenant quickly concentrates his energy in his left arm, closed fist, then opens his hand to deploy/launch this energy in the form of the homing missiles of Teralyst. It will be his long range attack.The projectile is throw like a simple little ball of light, and then explode in homing missiles. I hope it can travel long distance, like the cataclysm of Limbo, very usefull and fun in open world.
- If the key is held: He concentrates his energy on his left arm, and this time releases it in the form of a laser while turning on itself.
Here I imagine an animation of a spin on himself, a ninja spin, or a "breakdance move" if it is more speaking..
You can keep the current great spin with multiple lasers if you want, but i'm afraid that will be very very op xD But, I'm not against that ^^
Important point, the damage of his 4 depends on the number of enemy under our control, it is the "build up" part.
Like i've heard, he's not a Sentient, so it would be logical if he doesn't have their force of power, but has to gather mental energy to augment his power.
This way, we avoid a spam of lasers, and we force player to play with other skills before using the 4.
Of course, without minded control ennemy, it will deal enough damage to one shot low level ennemy, but for the real damages, the counter is important.
Because the enemies will probably be killed at this time, the build up has to be redone, but, dying, the controlled enemies explode, and the enemies not controlled, close to these explosions will be controlled, or stunned for a free 1. So the build up doesn't always resume from zero.

His passive: perfect '-'

So, in summary, why I propose these variants of the powers that were presented ?
It seemed to me, that he lacked just a little bit of fluidity in his gameplay, but it may just be WIP animations.
If he is in the Sentient theme, he must be scary to enemies, he must be able to make real damage/chaos, to have several string to his bow, he must be able to play "nice" or to seriously get serious .
Having 4 powers with 2 versions each, will be his special little trick, which people will talk about when they explain the warframe to their friends ...
It's important ^^ That's what can trigger a crush. ❤️

The general idea is to offer more possibility, more choices of action to players, and after all, the major asset of Sentients is to adapt, isn't it ? I know he's not a Sentient, but he's in their theme.
I've heard @[DE]Rebecca saying "he's very op right now" in the devstream, so I think my suggestions allow him to be op, at the condition of preparing his damages.

I really hope these suggestions will be taken into account, at least a little, I mean, it's the purpose of showing WIP things isn't it ? ^^
I've not give any numbers, I let that to DE, I trust them for that.
Feel free to comment, add your suggestions, ajust mine.
Rebecca is in charge for this warframe, no ?
So it would be logical that the community, her little minions, influence this WIP. ^^
But please, avoid suggestions of totaly different gameplay or powers.
I saw some ideas of vombalysts minions, and it's not feasible at this point.
This warframe just need somes ajust to his current abilities to be perfect, I feel it.

With all my respect, I wish lot of fun to DE working of this warframe ^^

Edited July 22, 2018 by Azvalk

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

His 3 should be like a high speed version of wukongs cloud walker where you dash X amount of distance at whatever direction your facing so you can also turn and stuff.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

They gave him lasers, what more do you want?

[Azvalk]

il y a 37 minutes, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 a dit :

His 3 should be like a high speed version of wukongs cloud walker where you dash X amount of distance at whatever direction your facing so you can also turn and stuff.

*Try to visualize*
hm.. yeah could also be good. ^^
I think the essential is to have fluidity of movement on this power, especially because it's an escape power.
But if it could be used to go at some heights, to reach certain aera on tilesets it would be perfect, and other player could have the time to see him use this fog form, which would add personnality to the character.