Is The Game Difficult Enough Yet?

[Checht]

Me and my friends have stopped playing Warframe since July 2018 due to the game being too easy. We were going for 2 to 3 hours Survival on Mot without much of a trouble due to the many cheese mechanics in Warframe. We have switched to playing L4D2 and Killing Floor 2 since then and we find that the difficulties in those games are appropriate enough to emphasize cooperation between players, and I subjectively find them to be more fun. There are still many aspects about Warframe that appeal to me, such as the aesthetics, the nicely done F2P model, the fluid movements and gunplay. So, it is a shame that the only thing lacking is an appropriate gameplay difficulty. DE seems to have some intention to increase the difficulty too, citing too high of a success rate in missions and some plan to implement difficulty selections before entering an instance.

So, is the game difficult enough yet? Are the cheese mechanics (perma AOE stun lock, perma invis, practically invincible) still there since July 2018? If the game has become difficult enough such that it mandates cooperation, I would like to check it out again.

[Chewarette]

There hasn't been any notable update since July 2018 so no, the difficulty is still the same.

[peterc3]

I don't think it will ever mandate cooperation outside specific modes without losing a sizable part of the audience.

If you know about Wolves of Saturn and whatnot, you would know it and everything else mentioned aren't in the game yet.

[bibmobello]

If you want an hard challenge you can try a Grineer survival with a level zero frame and with an unmodded braton. solo.

Seriously on arbitration most abilities are useless and there are no revives, you can just try it. 90 minutes against orokin it's a good challenge.

Anyway you are right, this game needs an heavy redesign, too much stuff is overpowered and the rest is useless.

1)Spin to win is stupid but it's the most and only used action on high levels because guns become useless pretty fast on high levels.

2)Some powers, operator abilities and arcanes are redundant and overpowered.

3)You can carry infinite amount of energy and health packs.

It's the same after many years in fact today it's even worse and i am starting to think the melee 3.0 will be a big flop.

Consider this a collectible game, if you want more you need to try something else.

Edited February 14, 2019 by bibmobello

[XenMaster]

Unfortunately, no. The game is more to "you die fast, or they die fast".

 

If they gonna balance the stats, they have to readjust AI's attack.

[Ikyr0]

no, not really. I have the same issue with the game. you simply don't need to cooperate, as every frame when maxed out is a God, relative to the available content. people only cooperate to make farming faster, that's it. 

However, I've been having fun doing Eidolons, the new Orb boss, and toroid farming. these 3 environments require cooperation to make rewards occur at a decent pace. but everything can still be solo'd by overtuned frames/weapons/mods. the ONLY way to challenge yourself is basically to choose not to use broken mechanics, which is what I do. I ditched Ivara, and rarely play Nidus these days. Pick a hard-but-rewarding frame like Mag, or a balanced frame like Oberon, and all of a sudden the game becomes a lot more interesting. 

if you guys gravitate toward min-maxing, you will NEVER be able to challenge yourselves in WF. the many broken mechanics have gotten out their hands entirely. too many too manage, and if they did, they'd piss off too many snowflakes. the community would probably stage a rebellion on reddit or something. a lot of them just wanna dress up and get in-game married. or mindlessly farm parts/cosmetics all day. this is 80-90% of WF community.

I will say the new Corpus enemies on Venus are pretty fun to fight at lvl 125 when toroid farming. you get bounced around, drained, and silenced, so you can't afk it entirely. 

You guys might enjoy some Division 2, or even Apex if you're into pvp. But I get what you mean - what keeps me coming back to WF is the lore, visuals, and fluidity. the game could be so much more, but the community doesn't want to be challenged. I think they cried en masse when DE tried raids, which were somewhat challenging. 

TLDR; me venting. nothing yet for you and your friends. there are some ways you could challenge yourself, but it would need to be self-imposed/artificial. This year, they'll try a difficulty slider for missions, they're reworking raids, and introducing a new faction which will probably bring new mechanics to the table. I'd say come back in fall. 

Edited February 14, 2019 by Ikyr0

[Ikyr0]

17 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

I don't think it will ever mandate cooperation outside specific modes without losing a sizable part of the audience.

If you know about Wolves of Saturn and whatnot, you would know it and everything else mentioned aren't in the game yet.

the future of WF is to make the game accessible and appealing to a wide audience. they need to add difficulty sliders and additional mechanics for those of us who want the challenge. this would be the way to go.

[Genesix6]

Nope, I mean the orb vallas have enemies that constantly relies on jump balls and keep knockbacking you

[Kontrollo]

You're a few years too late.

[Loza03]

Enemies still scale terribly, we still fight the same enemies at level 15 as at level 150, enemies still have broken-as-hell code handling their ability activation and there is still only one enemy that can actually counter the player's abilities in a meaningful way without also feeling BS - and even that enemy is still hated due to having the same code for spawning as every other enemy letting it sneak up on the player which is the opposite of what it's meant to do. Due to all enemies running off this same code, even enemies implemented designed to be more complex and challenging come off as cheap due to the player lacking any meaningful counterplay to most of their spammable abilities.

 

In order for us to counter this, we still have mass-effect hard CC that's effective on 99.9% of enemies, 360 degrees of damage that exceeds the HP of 99.9% of enemies, weaponry that not only removes our need to aim but is also as good if not better than many weapons that require more input and mental gymnastics from the player. Tigris is built around the mechanic of it's duplex trigger - that you deal colossal amounts of damage with one trigger pull and release, but have large amounts of downtime compared to weaker weapons. Similar deal to stuff like Opticor. Big damage, big start-up. But then you have Ignis Wraith which can comfortably do 90% of the game's content without even a full build.

 

Enemies need a 2.0. Badly. We cannot balance ourselves if the scales we're balanced on aren't tuned. We currently cannot play at higher levels without being met by BS scaling and spammed enemy powers, forcing us to adopt the exact same thing to cope - and without that BS scaling and spam, the enemies we encounter are nothing.

[GPrime96]

2 hours ago, Ikyr0 said:

I will say the new Corpus enemies on Venus are pretty fun to fight at lvl 125 when toroid farming. you get bounced around, drained, and silenced, so you can't afk it entirely. 

They’re also the only enemies outside of Nightmare Mode and Mot that hits like a Truck at lvl 100+. Like One Shot Territory if the Frame isn’t a Tank.

[stormy505]

Arbitrations might be what you're looking for. Since the drones entire purpose is to defeat ability based "cheese". fortuna enemies also accomplish something similar with nullys knock downs and more active AI.

[Voltage]

1 hour ago, stormy505 said:

Arbitrations might be what you're looking for. 

Arbitrations scale way slower than Mot. You get more challenge out of an endurance Fissure than an Arbitration with a squad.

[Volinus7]

No, because Warframe is a structurally stupid game atm(to the point that some people frequently ask themselves "why don't they just turn Warframe into a clicking game on mobile" ). 

Some devs intentionally dumb their games down for commercial success because they think they can ride on the peak of gaussian distribution. 

 

Edited February 14, 2019 by Volinus7

[Autongnosis]

il y a 10 minutes, Voltage a dit :

Arbitrations scale way slower than Mot. You get more challenge out of an endurance Fissure than an Arbitration with a squad.

This, so much. The most challenging mission in the game is an Axi fissure or a Nightmare modifier on a T4 void node, because of the stacking damage multipliers. 

Il y a 4 heures, Checht a dit :

So, is the game difficult enough yet? Are the cheese mechanics (perma AOE stun lock, perma invis, practically invincible) still there since July 2018? If the game has become difficult enough such that it mandates cooperation, I would like to check it out again.

It depends on the perspective tbh. If you are an actual veteran, then no. The one change that was very positive in that note is the Orb Vallis alert level system. Since you dropped out in July you haven't experienced, I'd suggest you give it a go. It's very fun and quite a bit more challenging than mostly everything else currently in game. 

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

Difficulty has almost never been a factor in horde shooters.  I don't think DE even considers it anymore.  The game at this point has fully fleshed out it's identity, and I for one am ok with that.

Certain games have certain niches.  Difficulty is not in Warframe's nature.

[(PSN)drpunk-yo]

Difficulty or loot?

Daddy or chips?

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

Difficulty has almost never been a factor in horde shooters.

I don't know if I'd agree with that. Rebellion's ZaT and Strange Brigade have difficulty settings that, imo, make it much more interesting and enjoyable to play. Both are definitely horde games. Tbh, the same applies to pretty much any zombie horde shooter, but then you have several more unique ones like Payday 2, also a horde shooter, in which difficulty is absolutely a factor. New enemies, better loot etc all play a role.

[TheKurtiStryke]

if you want some difficulty, ask to a random limbo to join your squad.

 

pls limbo mains, don't kill me, :p

[Loza03]

21 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

I don't know if I'd agree with that. Rebellion's ZaT and Strange Brigade have difficulty settings that, imo, make it much more interesting and enjoyable to play. Both are definitely horde games. Tbh, the same applies to pretty much any zombie horde shooter, but then you have several more unique ones like Payday 2, also a horde shooter, in which difficulty is absolutely a factor. New enemies, better loot etc all play a role.

Also, Devil May Cry 4 added a horde mode called 'Legendary Dark Knight mode' where they basically turned up the number of enemies that spawned on hard mode (Son of Sparda) setting. Not hardest (Dante Must Die) mode thank goodness, but the point stands. If DMC, a series known for being tough-as-nails feels comfortable with a horde mode then horde games can definitely be tough cookies if they want to be.

[Kainosh]

5 hours ago, Checht said:

There are still many aspects about Warframe that appeal to me, such as the aesthetics, the nicely done F2P model, the fluid movements and gunplay. So, it is a shame that the only thing lacking is an appropriate gameplay difficulty

I feel same.  Love everything exept the way DE balanced Warframe powers and Enemy difficulty.     Anything will be easy if you can apply strong CC/debuff/damage  to the whole map without any cooldown.....And only enemies that can avoid that are Nullifiers.

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

42 minutes ago, TheKurtiStryke said:

if you want some difficulty, ask to a random limbo to join your squad.

 

pls limbo mains, don't kill me, 😛

You will suffer greatly for your insult, blasphemer!  

[Lutesque]

Depends on what you mean by "Difficulty" 

Seeing as the only difference between the first 5 hours and the 1000th hour is the enemies have bigger numbers then no... its not difficult and is literally incapable of being difficult since its testing your gear... not your skills. So... you should consider if thats something you're willing to wait for because when the enemies get "harder" (bigger numbers) then you need better mods (bigger numbers) 

[Loza03]

1 hour ago, TheKurtiStryke said:

pls limbo mains, don't kill me, 😛

 

Oh, we won't kill you...

 

[-AiLuoLi-]

Nah, not difficult at all. Just get a Catchmoon Kitgun and 1 shot Hydrolist Limbs.