Nightwave + alerts removal feedback

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

On the topic of FOMO, during the Devstream where it was introduced, they explained quite explicitly that the expiration of creds and limited time nature of the event was to discourage the trend of players consuming all new content in a week, and leaving until the next content drop. Instead, now, if you don't want to miss out on these ladder rewards, you have to play every week, on their schedule.

So yeah, it kinda was built on "FOMO" , even if it isn't intentionally evil, per se. It's just all the collateral damage it causes.

 

[(PSN)BenHeisennberg]

Right, forgot about the augments.  Most are meh, but fair point.

10 minutes ago, Kenobi_000001 said:

My point was that it's pretty obvious that Nightwave is designed to keep players returning on at least a weekly basis for the duration of a season, by offering exclusive content that wouldn't be available outside of that season.

Right.  And that's way more reasonable both as a description, and as a reason to do it.  Realistically, there's a high chance that the mods come round again in a later season, and most exclusive stuff is entirely cosmetic.  If you're playing, it's a little something to do (albeit gutted following S1 complaints) that rewards you for taking part in the event.  If you're not playing at the time, it's all good!  Biggest thing you missed is the ability to look disgusting with this particular infested stuff, and even that is likely to eventually return.  Additionally, this is not new for DE.  We've had 14 limited events over the course of the game's life so far.

What I will not do is blame DE for adult players (I assume, game's M rated) who self implode and cannot psychologically function when presented with a ten week timeframe.  Those individuals' problems are not DE's fault.

Edited July 22, 2019 by (PS4)BenHeisennberg
Formatting

[Kenobi_000001]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

What I will not do is blame DE for adult players (I assume, game's M rated) who self implode and cannot psychologically function when presented with a ten week timeframe.  Those individuals' problems are not DE's fault.

That's fair too. Overall the whole "debate" here is really getting out of hand and obscuring good points on both sides.

Edited July 22, 2019 by Kenobi_000001

[Sloan441]

1 hour ago, Caine2112 said:

If you happen to have Hildryn, then problem solved for energy drain missions.

It's not so much a problem as it is a damned nuisance. 

I can run a triple umbral Valkyr and her EH is such the enemies can barely scratch her--and if they can, she simply gains energy she can use for Warcry, which ratchets up the armor even more. Or there's Garuda who can produce energy on demand to do whatever and then promptly regen the expended health. 

It's the cheesy nature of it that excludes 'frames that do rely heavily on energy to do much of anything. This moves the bar into the territory of being distinctly unfun. Sure, it's an excuse to run Valky or Garuda or some other that isn't particularly vulnerable to the drain, but I don't like the circumstances--and it's probably partly in reaction to when it was more of a problem when we had less of everything. 

Bottom line is it gets on that last nerve and I'd rather not do it regardless of circumstances. 

 

[(PSN)corpusbonds]

Just wanted to come back and mention a few things.

I'm really enjoying this season. Not as much into the story (yet), but I like the slightly different challenges.

 -The nightmare one is great for me, because I don’t usually touch them. I get to go back, carry some newbies and in turn they also get it done + new mods. It’s nice.

-Invasions are ehh.. but again, I get to do invasions and get remarked. Works for me because I looove being hunted (no sarcasm) and again, I also get resources I’m otherwise never going to build (don’t build fieldron and stuff when I should).

-Not crazy over the plant scanning once again, but because of going out of my way to search for plants, I’ve found more rare caches/Ayatan statues.

 It seems chill this time around, and I don’t feel worried about missing out, even with a busy schedule. 

Also wanted to add in that I think the glitch where you lose your NW challenge progress is fixed! Haven’t had it happen since the hotfix before so I’m super happy lol.

[Tellakey]

12 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

Please tell me:
How is asking to do 9 invasions "awful"?

And please tell me how many you would need for an "elite" weekly?  1 invasion for 7K standing?
Or do you just want it for signing in for the day?

DE has reduced the actually annoying challenges, the 60 minute survivals, the 5 sorties, and so on.

But come on.
They are asking you to do 9 invasions or 10 nightmares.
That isn't a lot.
Its not like that challenge will take hours to do or o is some monstrously tedious piece of work.

If DE kept listening to players like you every last nightwave would just be:
Sign into the game for 4.5K standing
Play one capture mission for 7K standing
And so on.

Let's see... how about... in a game that's not challenging to begin with, instead of artificially padding "elite" challenges by increasing the required number of completed missions, DE could either rework some challenge into the base mechanics, or in the absence of such, not go for such terms as "elite", and thereby not require said artificial padding.

[Test-995]

For me, invasion was fine but nightmare wasn't, mostly because every nightmare mods are pretty much worthless (since we can just buy those and doesn't cost that much anyways) while fieldron/mutagen/detonite is rather useful for lazy person who didn't want to do invasion.

Also plant scanning wasn't fun at all, somehow i'll get sick by that periodical wallhack and first person view, as well as coloring/sound, also the fact we can't make it faster with other player was something i don't like.

[Chappie]

24 minutes ago, Tellakey said:

Let's see... how about... in a game that's not challenging to begin with, instead of artificially padding "elite" challenges by increasing the required number of completed missions, DE could either rework some challenge into the base mechanics, or in the absence of such, not go for such terms as "elite", and thereby not require said artificial padding.

If you go by the dictionary definition....then the elite challenge are elite. 

[Test-995]

12 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

Please tell me:
How is asking to do 9 invasions "awful"?

And please tell me how many you would need for an "elite" weekly?  1 invasion for 7K standing?
Or do you just want it for signing in for the day?

DE has reduced the actually annoying challenges, the 60 minute survivals, the 5 sorties, and so on.

But come on.
They are asking you to do 9 invasions or 10 nightmares.
That isn't a lot.
Its not like that challenge will take hours to do or o is some monstrously tedious piece of work.

If DE kept listening to players like you every last nightwave would just be:
Sign into the game for 4.5K standing
Play one capture mission for 7K standing
And so on.

I want to do 16 waves of eso instead of invasion or nightmares, but of course nightwave never gonna get a such freedom of choice.

You guys are always talking like we want something easier or faster, in fact we just want to do whatever we want for full standing.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

4 hours ago, Kenobi_000001 said:

All this debate about FOMO (fear of missing out) misses a point that should be fairly obvious. Whether the FOMO is rational or not, Nightwave is designed specifically to exploit FOMO. The entire basis of the system is limited-time tasks for limited time rewards.

By that definition, virtually every aspect of the gaming industry is based on some form of fear of missing out. 

In the case of Nightwave, the very length of availability mitigates most of "limited time" aspects that people are claiming. Especially when we realise that we need only a fraction of the available standing from the Nightwave. 

4 hours ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

It is a very simple equation in my book:

Wait and spend 3 forma only when it's a Nightwave Act, and get rewarded...
(delaying the benefits of the forma'd gear that you want to use right now, but have other viable options to use in the meantime, so no rush really.)
or
Spend 3 forma when it's not rewarded by Nightwave? Thus, getting no benefit from the use of Forma except the reduced slot cost.

Yes, that is a simple equation.... Perhaps too simple. You removed the intrinsic value of a forma'd piece of gear. And I figure we both know how much more power that brings to the table. Having access to a more powerful piece of gear, earlier, is sort of a significant factor in our community. 

How many Hyldrin's did we see, before she was farmable? Yeah, folk could have waited for it if they wanted to, and many of us did. Others chose to avoid waiting. Do you really think their answer to the equation, "wrong"? 

5 hours ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

PS: The fact that it CAN be skipped and still get the ladder rewards, IF you can make up for the lost points from other acts (which is clearly not a universal thing as many people, including my friend, missed out on the last few ladder rank rewards in season 1) does NOT mean we can sit idly by and say "oh yeah, it's perfectly fine for garbage acts to exist, because we can just skip them." The more of these bad acts that exist, the more that we're inclined to skip - so rather than encouraging us to play, they encourage us to skip.

If only they would add a "catch-up" mechanic to the current season, so that people would be allowed to do challenges that they missed.... Wait a minute! By Jove! They have added that! 

BTW, look at the replies to the thread you're responding to. People are claiming that they're being 'forced', 'psychologically warfared', etc.. You may want to be careful when you suggest that they make us want to 'play even more'. 

[QueenKharn]

You have a week for these things.

just split it up between doing other activities.

Edited July 23, 2019 by KokoroWish

[peterc3]

1 hour ago, Test-995 said:

in fact we just want to do whatever we want for full standing.

I want to get NW rep for killing some Hive in D2.

This is as unreasonable as doing whatever you want.

[Thrymm]

15 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

Please tell me:
How is asking to do 9 invasions "awful"?

And please tell me how many you would need for an "elite" weekly?  1 invasion for 7K standing?
Or do you just want it for signing in for the day?

DE has reduced the actually annoying challenges, the 60 minute survivals, the 5 sorties, and so on.

But come on.
They are asking you to do 9 invasions or 10 nightmares.
That isn't a lot.
Its not like that challenge will take hours to do or o is some monstrously tedious piece of work.

If DE kept listening to players like you every last nightwave would just be:
Sign into the game for 4.5K standing
Play one capture mission for 7K standing
And so on.

 How many invasions does an experienced player typically do in a week?  How much invasion content do they really need to accomplish for themselves?  The answer is probably somewhere between none and less than nine per week.  Same with nightmare missions.  How many does an experienced player do unless tasked with something outside of the nightmare reward system?

Folks that think this is a challenge issue are, well....challenged.  How many Mercury missions does your average experienced player partake in per week?  The answer is probably none, or somewhere near it.  Nightmares and invasions are no more difficult to these same people than a Mercury mission.  An "elite" weekly tasking me to do ten Mercury missions would be of the same caliber as these other "challenges".  So yes, they are a monstrously tedious piece of work.

On that note, some folks have mentioned a more "do as you want" type attitude toward nightwave.  I don't think that's such a bad idea.  Some things that would work toward that:

1.  Kill counts.  Could be total kills.  Could be Corpus, or Grineer, or Infested.  Could be boss kills.  We see a little bit of this already, but at this point, players could choose.

2.  Damage type kills.  Yes, we get them as dailies.  What if we had piles of these, they'd have synergy with kill count missions for specific enemies, and that's a plus.

3.  Resources gathered.  Sure, mining, fishing, or just plain picking up drops.  Maybe high numbers for commons, low ones for more rare, etc.  Maybe get 10k kuva/cryotic.  Get'em as you go.

4.  Mission completions.  Not necessarily a specific type, but simply set a number--complete twenty missions this week, Tenno(for example)!

I'm sure there are plenty more.  None of these are harder than what has been given to us, and with a proper number assigned to them, they can easily be the same or more missions than what was given. 

What they also do is entirely open end the process.  Yeah, you could kill five hundred Corpus by doing nine invasions, or you could do it in one sitting of a longer survival, or you could do it with a visit or five to the Vallis.  A kill count like that could offer you the exact same content in any combination you'd want it to.

[Test-995]

1 hour ago, peterc3 said:

I want to get NW rep for killing some Hive in D2.

This is as unreasonable as doing whatever you want.

I don't see any problem except D2 isn't warframe at all.

[peterc3]

4 minutes ago, Test-995 said:

I don't see any problem except D2 isn't warframe at all.

Neither my example nor yours does what the system is designed to do: make you, the player, play as much of Warframe as possible. We all have our favorite parts of the game but DE cannot and will not reward you for just doing the bits you want to do. There's no point to development continuing if that is the case.

[Test-995]

Just now, peterc3 said:

Neither my example nor yours does what the system is designed to do: make you, the player, play as much of Warframe as possible. We all have our favorite parts of the game but DE cannot and will not reward you for just doing the bits you want to do. There's no point to development continuing if that is the case.

Yeah, i don't care, that means nighwave was bad from the design i guess, we usually play new content at least once anyways, i think they should try other way to encourage doing old content.

[Tellakey]

5 hours ago, Thrymm said:

 How many invasions does an experienced player typically do in a week?  How much invasion content do they really need to accomplish for themselves?  The answer is probably somewhere between none and less than nine per week.  Same with nightmare missions.  How many does an experienced player do unless tasked with something outside of the nightmare reward system?

Folks that think this is a challenge issue are, well....challenged.  How many Mercury missions does your average experienced player partake in per week?  The answer is probably none, or somewhere near it.  Nightmares and invasions are no more difficult to these same people than a Mercury mission.  An "elite" weekly tasking me to do ten Mercury missions would be of the same caliber as these other "challenges".  So yes, they are a monstrously tedious piece of work.

On that note, some folks have mentioned a more "do as you want" type attitude toward nightwave.  I don't think that's such a bad idea.  Some things that would work toward that:

1.  Kill counts.  Could be total kills.  Could be Corpus, or Grineer, or Infested.  Could be boss kills.  We see a little bit of this already, but at this point, players could choose.

2.  Damage type kills.  Yes, we get them as dailies.  What if we had piles of these, they'd have synergy with kill count missions for specific enemies, and that's a plus.

3.  Resources gathered.  Sure, mining, fishing, or just plain picking up drops.  Maybe high numbers for commons, low ones for more rare, etc.  Maybe get 10k kuva/cryotic.  Get'em as you go.

4.  Mission completions.  Not necessarily a specific type, but simply set a number--complete twenty missions this week, Tenno(for example)!

I'm sure there are plenty more.  None of these are harder than what has been given to us, and with a proper number assigned to them, they can easily be the same or more missions than what was given. 

What they also do is entirely open end the process.  Yeah, you could kill five hundred Corpus by doing nine invasions, or you could do it in one sitting of a longer survival, or you could do it with a visit or five to the Vallis.  A kill count like that could offer you the exact same content in any combination you'd want it to.

Great points made here, folks.

[BlackRoseAngel]

21 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

Please tell me:
How is asking to do 9 invasions "awful"?

And please tell me how many you would need for an "elite" weekly?  1 invasion for 7K standing?
Or do you just want it for signing in for the day?

DE has reduced the actually annoying challenges, the 60 minute survivals, the 5 sorties, and so on.

But come on.
They are asking you to do 9 invasions or 10 nightmares.
That isn't a lot.
Its not like that challenge will take hours to do or o is some monstrously tedious piece of work.

If DE kept listening to players like you every last nightwave would just be:
Sign into the game for 4.5K standing
Play one capture mission for 7K standing
And so on.

Warframe is a video game, not a job.

[tzadquiel]

16 hours ago, marelooke said:

And you purposefully misconstruing their words despite them making it abundantly clear that depression is a significantly worse problem is really bottom barrel.

My apologies for getting angry there, but people abusing an illness (that I am all too familiar with) for their own gain angers me.

In terms of tips that I can offer you, coming in handy when discussing things over the internet – just because he stated that it is not the same, yet still comparing it in the same post, still, at the end of the day, is comparison with depression. You just got manipulated into thinking that it isn’t.

[Autongnosis]

Tbh I'd just like an alternate route. Like, you get standard or alternate challenges. Standard being 9 invasions/10 nightmares. Alternate being, say, complete a tricap or survive 12 rotations in a nightmare endless. 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

6 hours ago, Test-995 said:

I don't see any problem except D2 isn't warframe at all.

Congratulations, you figured out the point that they were making. Kinda. 

59 minutes ago, BlackRoseAngel said:

Warframe is a video game, not a job.

If you really think that playing a video game, doing a few missions of your choosing per day, lasting a cumulative 2-3 hours per week, at any point in time that you choose, is anything close to having "a job", you're in for a very rude awakening. If you are just using hyperbole, because you have been watching too much youtu.be and figure that being over dramatic is a good idea, you should maybe consider not doing that. 

 

Good luck, Tenno. 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, Autongnosis said:

Tbh I'd just like an alternate route. Like, you get standard or alternate challenges. Standard being 9 invasions/10 nightmares. Alternate being, say, complete a tricap or survive 12 rotations in a nightmare endless. 

Would be nice personally, but not for the community I figure. 

What I mean is that I have seen enough people who just wouldn't be able to pass some of the challenges on their own being carried in public missions, because everyone needs to get them done at around the same time. 

If there's a fishing challenge, the newbs with no bait, benefit from the fact I toss them out like candy. Nightmare missions are tough for newbs, but a single veteran can carry a squad with ease. Plains bounties can be tough on weaker players (especially with those thumpers), except for when one dude takes them down solo, just because they figured everyone can do with some extra fish guts. The "no score index", yeah, helps when someone knows what they're doing. 

All of these things are taken for granted, but are hard on newbs, having others along helps. 

[Chaemyerelis]

Alerts were better because I could ignore them till I needed something they offered without the feeling of missing out.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

5 minutes ago, Chaemyerelis said:

Alerts were better because I could ignore them till I needed something they offered without the feeling of missing out.

Except for when you needed something, and weren't online at whatever gods-forsaken hour? Or logged in, just to see the alerts expiring? Or knew that you didn't have the node unlocked, and needed to see if you could find a taxi? 

The alert rewards are now pretty much guaranteed to be "do what you feel like doing whenever you feel like doing it". 

The "event specific rewards" are what we're all pushing ourselves to get, not the alert rewards. And those were always "you can participate and get some neat rewards, or skip it if you choose", but at least with the long duration, it's going to be around for a couple of months, and you won't miss out on everything if you are away for the weekend. 

[DesertEagle1280]

Having issues with progress getting lost.  Did a defense mission where I got 150/150 mag kills, got the little Nora "You did it, you're epic!" scene played, etc.  Go back to ship, go to next mission, start back at 0/150 and counting up.  Had several missions where I didn't get 150/150 and it reset.  Finally got it done last night (and it checked off).  Last night doing spy missions for the weekly, first mission, got the 8/8 hacks daily.  Finished mission, went to next spy mission, started over at 0/8 hacked.  Counted the second time I did it. 

Really irks me when I jump through the hoop only for the game to decide "no! MOAR!"